Another Parent Not Accepting Responsibility For Their Own Actions

[2CatsInFlorida]

I don't think that the cruise lines should provide life guards. I know that sounds mean and cruel, but I think that is leaving them wide open for law suits. Heaven forbid that something happened to a child in a pool/area with a life guard. It would then become the fault of the cruise line for not watching ALL the children.

.

 

 

LIABILITY. When a pool in installed it is considered a hazard that must be mitigated by the pool owner. In a residential neighborhood, the mitigating factor is a fence with a lock. Without the fence the homeowner can not use the defense that the parent should have watched the child at all times, if the neighbor's child is injured in the pool.

 

In the case of the cruise ship, RCI is the owner and must mitigate the hazard. A fence is not practical, but a lifeguard is.

 

 

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Edited April 4, 2016 by 2CatsInFlorida

[laurac22]

I am so tired of parents not watching their kids and letting them behave badly and dangerously. On our last cruise I was trying to relax by the pool, but finally had to leave because I was so stressed worrying about kids safety when their own parents could not care less.

Kids where jumping from the hot tubs into the pools, diving on top of others, and some swimming alone when it was clear they shouldn't be, considering they were holding onto the side for dear life! Why should I have to try to protect your kids? Be responsible or don't have them!

[drb116]

If Royal Caribbean wants to post rules, but not follow them, then they should be sued. I was on Oasis last week and every one of the pools has a capacity rating and every one of the pools had many more than the allowed rating.

 

As a parent, it is hard to keep track of my kids under normal circumstances. When a pool is rated for 9 bathers and there are 20 kids getting in and out, it doesn't take a negligent parent to lose track of their child.

[TigerLady]

Anyone else hear about the lady who thinks RC should have lifeguards at the pools? Another parent who wants to blame someone else for their own negligence. What is it with people who bring their kids and expect someone else to watch them? RC is not a babysitter. There are even signs that say swim at your own risk.

 

So this mother has a 4 year old in the toddler pool. Kid goes under water for 5 minutes and she doesn't even notice? So now she is suing RC. What if this would have happened in their own home pool? Who would she try to sue, the pool cleaning service? What is up with parents thinking they are not responsible for their own actions? You want your kid in the pool, you need to watch them like a hawk. Don't want to be bothered with having to watch them so you can relax? Go to the pool when your kid is in whatever RC supervised kids activity they have or hire one of the RC babysitters. These lawsuits are just ridiculous.

 

 

http://www.local10.com/news/local-10-investigates/mother-wants-lifeguards-on-cruise-ships-after-son-nearly-drowns

 

If they find an attorney to take the case, he'll be a shyster and take them for all the money they have. Parents, Cruises aren't for small children, whos parents are too busy to watch them...

[riclop]

Most parents now a days are totally different from the past.

[rance]

Seriously?? Just because RC markets themselves to attract families, that doesn't mean they are babysitters. RC has babysitters you can hire. You have spent that much money on a cruise what's a few more bucks to keep your kids safe? Sounds like someone else who would blame others when it's their own fault.

 

 

 

 

 

As another parent said on here, if the conditions look unsafe (pool looks to crowded) then take the kids somewhere else. If little Johnny throws a fit then you should have taught him the word NO and bring him back when it is more safe. I have seen it way to many times where the kids rule the parents. :eek:

 

Well I guess that's why corporations love people like you...fill a pool overcapacity and don't enforce their own rules, save a few bucks on lifeguards ( even though competitor does) and then when a child DIES put all the blame on the parents. Having a lifeguard at a children's pool is not unreasonable to increase the safety of children....but hey that would cost money to the cruiseline so the odd dead child isn't a big deal right?

[Big_G]

You think lifeguards are fail safe?

 

Only the nonhuman variety. ;)

[Big_G]

How very sad for the child.

 

Couldn't agree more but apparently some here are more concerned that their tar and feathers will go to waste. :rolleyes:

[Grandma Dazzles]

If Royal Caribbean wants to post rules, but not follow them, then they should be sued. I was on Oasis last week and every one of the pools has a capacity rating and every one of the pools had many more than the allowed rating.

 

As a parent, it is hard to keep track of my kids under normal circumstances. When a pool is rated for 9 bathers and there are 20 kids getting in and out, it doesn't take a negligent parent to lose track of their child.

 

Never seen a pool with a capacity of 9? Just asking.

[SherriZ366]

I remember the incident, it was either on OA or AL and the ship returned to port quickly and they took the little boy and his family off the ship.

[thewilfords]

we bought life vests for our 5 and 7 yr olds to use on the boat and excursions next week. we are bringing our own for safety

[Sparkygirl]

Serenade, also, has the child life vests in the pool area on a rack. And yet, there are children in the pool without.

 

 

I choose not to use a life vest with my 5 year old child in a swimming pool, please don't assume that is a lack of parenting on my part. My 5 year old is a competitive swimmer and we are always close by while she can swim 600 yards at a time, salt water and ships movements are different in a pool onboard a ship then at home. I had well meaning folks twice during our cruise comment on my daughters size and age while using the pool, I'd wished they had taken a couple minutes and watched her swim. We use life jackets or a snorkel vest when snorkeling or at the beach.

 

 

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[Grandma Dazzles]

It's a very sad situation when a child or adult is involved in a drowning or near drowning.

 

However, there are so many variables that it is just not easy to find a solution, and lifeguards might help but wouldn't alleviate so many of the problems. There are negligent parents definitely. There are over excited, rambunctious kids who are perhaps not used to being around pools. There are also loud, obnoxious, drinking adults in pools.

 

I would be in favor of more pool security and monitoring for overcrowding/drinking/horseplay, etc. not necessarily lifeguards. I think the idea of swim at your own risk and parent supervision is the way it should be. True lifeguards would mean many parents would just leave their kids to the "babysitter."

 

Let's also remember the number of languages spoken on board. I tried to ask a few kids to stop jumping in on each other for fear of injury (didn't see any parents) and they didn't speak English.

[Maryscooking]

If Royal did have lifeguards, these parents would be suing because the lifeguard didn't do his or her job. At our local pool, the signs stipulate that for children ages six and under, a caregiver must be in arms length of the child, actually physically able to reach out and grab the child, at all times.

 

That's because posted lifeguards aren't foolproof, and in the time it take the guard to address a rowdy group of kids, or attend to a slip and fall on deck, a child could drown.

The thing is, with all the feet in that current pool, and the big post in the middle, even in a guarded pool, a toddler could easily fall in, immediately sink to the bottom, and not been seen on the bottom until it was too late. All it takes is for the guard to be looking at something else when the toddler goes under.

 

What happened to their child is horrifying, every parent's worst nightmare. But it is their responsibility. The child didn't "somehow" get to the other pool. He got there because no one had their eyes on him, plain and simple.

 

I feel like I can speak to this to some degree because I've watched my daughter play in the water areas on multiple cruise ships, including Allure and Carnival Dream, which both have different types of kids play areas and pools.

 

Those parents aren't alone in their lapse of judgement. In the hours we'd sit staring at our kiddo (and of course interacting with her :)), just like a previous poster, we noticed PLENTY of little, little kids with no parents to be seen.

 

That current pool on Allure is especially hazardous, and the kids love it. Even though my daughter can swim and could touch the bottom, the amount of rowdy children in the current made my husband nervous enough that he wouldn't watch her from outside the pool, he actually went and sat on the edge. And he is really not over protective at all - he'd normally be content to watch from a distance.

[BeagleOne]

The parents, and only the parents, are responsible here, just as the parents, and only the parents, were responsible for the Disney near-drowning. Apparently the Azzia boy is recovering much better than the boy on Disney, who will be severely impaired for life because his parents somehow managed to keep track of their two older kids, who could swim, but not the youngest one, who somehow got away from them and ended up in the pool.

 

If you can't or won't keep track of your kids, then stay away from attractive nuisances like pools.

[SPacificbound]

Life vests and parents watching their kids should be a requirement not an option.

[FloridaPalms]

While Disney's introduction of lifeguards on their ships was spurred by the March 2013 near-drowning of little Chase Lykken (whose public Facebook page is both an inspiration and a heart-breaker), I think the big difference between Disney and other cruise lines is Disney also operates land resorts which have lifeguards at their theme pools. Many Disney cruisers do a land/sea package and probably expect lifeguards at both. Whether failing to meet that "expectation" could have made Disney more exposed, is a question I leave to the legal system. But it could definitely make a child more exposed if a parent is lax.

 

While nothing can replace a parent's attention to their child, accidents still happen. In Chase's case, he had very attentive parents. But it only took seconds, during which his mom turned around to get sunscreen out of her bag to put on him, for the child to take flight and get lost in the sea of people on deck before somehow ending up in the bottom of the pool. A family changed forever, truly tragic.

 

Lifeguards, no. Life vests, YES! Deck Patrol, definitely! Parental responsibility, always!

 

My biggest fear with lifeguards on ships is inattentive parents becoming even more complacent. How many lifeguards would you need to oversee the ship's pools with the chaos surrounding them?

 

I remember years back while in the Disney World Coronado Springs Resort theme pool, I didn't even notice a little boy in distress and he was right in front of me! He had come off the water slide but I was watching the slide waiting for my grandson to come down. It wasn't until the lifeguard blew her whistle (a signal to the four, yes FOUR!, other lifeguards patrolling the pool) that I looked at her and saw she was looking right at me as she dove in. I looked down and in arms reach pulled up the little guy who had gone under. OMG!!! :eek: He couldn't have been more than 3. He was choking but otherwise fine. Seconds later, I handed him off to the lifeguard as his mom rushed across the pool with a sibling. Dad and another sibling came down the slide a minute later. As the parents argued between themselves as to which one was supposed to be watching the little guy, the lifeguard politely pointed out the life-vest rack by the pool. Apparently none of their young children had "wanted" to wear them earlier. (At least the mom made the little guy put one on after this happened.) The nod and look I had got from the lifeguard as she left the pool said it all. ...sigh... :rolleyes:

 

While this could be used as an argument for having lifeguards on all ships, I think the responsibility has to lie with the parents. All Disney resort theme pools are CLOSED when lifeguards are not on duty. They still had a young tween/teen drown while swimming after hours at one of the resorts. Parents need to be responsible and teach responsible behavior to their children.

 

I am thrilled to see the posts about life vests being introduced on Royal's ships. I think they should be placed at the entrances to the pool deck with a big sign strongly suggesting (requiring?) they be worn at all times while swimming AND on the pool deck by any children needing them and that parents watch their kids! It is so easy for a young child to get lost on a crowded deck and be knocked into a pool or jumped onto while in a pool. On two of my cruises so far, I've personally reunited wayward toddlers with parents who "lost" them on deck. And, like Maryscooking and other posters, I've witnessed far too many little ones in the pools or H2O zone with parents no where to be seen. How can they be so oblivious to the dangers to their child?!?! :eek: Parental responsibility doesn't take a vacation! :mad:

 

I definitely think they should have crew patrolling & enforcing ALL safety rules - no running, jumping, diving, rough housing, disorderly conduct, glass on deck or in pools, overcrowding, chair hogging (oops, that last one belongs in a different thread ;)).

 

~ Judy

[Grandma Dazzles]

Florida Palms and Mary's Coking

 

There should be a like button! You said it far better than I did, and totally agree.

[MicCanberra]

How sad for the child the parent and the cruise line, luckily the child didn't drown.

[MicCanberra]

Florida Palms and Mary's Coking

 

There should be a like button! You said it far better than I did, and totally agree.

 

Agreed.:D

[Luv my furbaby]

While my heart breaks for the child, it is not RCCL's responsibility to monitor your children. Last year on a cruise, 2 young girls (looked to be 7 and younger) were doing cartwheels into the pool with the parents sitting near by. After almost being hit, I said to the child " honey this probably isn't the best place to be doing this because there are too many people in the pool. You could get hurt and you could hurt someone else". Honestly, I could not have been nicer. The father looked at me and said " how dare I tell his children what they could and could not do ". He told me he was going to complain about me. Others in the area were just as shocked as I. I told him that children were precious and I would hate to see one get hurt (ok, I wasn't so nice by then). He told me to shut up and mind my own business.

Really parents, wise up, this is not your backyard pool and you are not the only ones there. god forbid what would happen if little Susie broken an arm during her cartwheel because she slipped on the deck.

Just use common sense people - it's really not very hard. Treat people how you would want to be treated.

End of rant!!!

[Truluv]

I sympathize with worried parents who wish for as much safety and security as possible, but I also acknowledge that its ultimately the parents' responsibility. I recall our first cruise as a family on Carnival's Celebration about 20 years ago. One night our 6 year old (smart but ornery kid - got his MENSA membership the following year) sneaked out of the cabin in the middle of the night. He had heard that there was a chocolate buffet at midnight, and he wanted to go! When we woke up around 4-5 am, he was missing! The chocolate buffet had been over when he snuck out of the cabin. He wasn't able to get back into the cabin since he didn't bring a key. He found a couch, curled up and went to sleep. Fortunately, we found him quickly before having to wake up the entire ship but I still remember the fear. Ultimately, you never know what kids are going to do. Whether you're on the megaships or a small ship, they're small towns...and you wouldn't let your kids wander around a town unsupervised. We were very, very fortunate. And that "kid" is still adventurous and ornery...new medical professional, who just spent 10 days alone touring Iceland...I should microchip him.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Truluv

[xxHadleyxx]

My heart breaks for those parents--I am certainly not going to villainize them and say that their child drowning was their fault (unless information comes out to indicate that the child was truly allowed to swim unsupervised, but that does not appear to be the case)--it is VERY easy for even attentive parents to lose track of a child on a crowded pool deck, and once you lose them for a moment it can take a lot to find them again. A child of attentive, loving ,responsible parents can still accidentally drown in any crowded area with water features and it is tragic when they do.

 

 

However, I cannot side with them in a lawsuit. It is tragic, and horrible and not really the parents' fault, but it is also not the fault of the cruise line. When you choose to vacation with your children and take them places with pools, you take a risk. Small, but real of drowning.

 

 

Personally--I agree with those who feel lifeguards add a false sense of security and encourage MORE of the types of parents who let their kids swim without direct supervision--so I do not think that is a good answer.

 

I am torn on life vests for the same reasons--some parents are bound to see that as an adequate replacement for proper supervision.

 

And i am against REQUIRING life vests on kids in the pools----different kids have different swim abilities and some really will be better off without a vest (a strong swimmer would be in more danger from falling due to wearing a cumbersome vest which throws off her balance, than from drowning while supervised in the pool, for example).

 

 

Personally, we always refused to swim when the pools were crowded (and were clear with the kids that this was both because it is not fun when so crowded, but also a safety issue) and also made sure the kids were well taught about staying away from pools otherwise, etc (and did not let them wear swimsuits on deck if we did not plan to be in the pools---so they would not feel like they could just jump in for a moment, etc).

[Haddonqueen]

Hi, If parents can't look after their children properley they shouldn't have them. A child drowning or nearly drowning is Child neglect.

[Oscarsgrandad]

Remember Madeline McCann who disappeared from a Portuguese hotel room? She was 3 and had younger siblings. Her parents left them alone asleep in bed and went out to dinner. Then and now I couldn't imagine parents having so little regard for their defenseless children.

Being on vacation doesn't excuse neglect.

 

 

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There are many people in the UK who think that the McCanns should have been prosecuted for wilful neglect, if they weren't doctors etc., they would have been.

 

As regards any situation where your child's safety is concerned, you are ultimately responsible.

That's the problem with the litigation culture that was nurtured mostly in the US, it's always someone else's fault, therefore we can make money from it.