Diamond Princess not easy for mobility impaired

[crochetcruise]

There are some posters who seem to gain pleasure from stirring up others. Best thing I have found is not to reward them by entering a dialogue. :)

 

I will be on Golden Princess in December MM and will take careful note of the style of the metal strips although I am not impacted by them. Will report back and maybe it might be of use to those who need to know.

 

I'm sailing 11/11/2016. I have noted to specifically take photos of the metal strips. My computer is very slow but I could put the photos on a USB stick and use a library computer to post to Cruise Critic.

 

Moki's Mother (hope I've remembered the name correctly, if not I SINCERELY apologise. THANK YOUfor the MOSTdiscreet Safety Hazard Prompt I have EVER been given. My cousins are good, and a friend works in Community Health, and you have managed to warn me of a potential future tripping hazard to be aware of-I know I'm sailing on a different ship, but I WILL remember to make sure I approach any metal strips with my walker at a slight angle so I shouldn't get both front wheels caught!

[moki'smommy]

I examined the metal pieces carefully after daughter's difficulty. They are not perfectly square, but the side pieces are at a slight angle that is insufficient to allow the walker to roll over them. They are raised perhaps 3/4 inch above the carpet level. The walker wheel did not get stuck in the sense that it needed to be dug out of something; it just would not roll any farther and needed to be lifted over the obstruction. This is the same walker that she used in December 2015 on the Caribbean Princess without difficulty. I cannot address what the difference was on the Caribbean Princess--since they did not present an obstruction on that ship, I paid little attention to them. My guess is that a more rounded edge, a less steep edge, or being less elevated above the carpet would have not presented the obstruction (yes, I do understand that the height might be necessary to perform their function). In fairness, our experience was limited to a single deck--there was no need to "try" the walker on any other deck of guest rooms.

 

I do not think this would be a problem for a scooter as I suspect the increased "power" would allow it to push over these. However, I have no experience in this regard.

 

Yes, she figured out a "work around" by going to deck 7 to traverse the ship or to deck 14 if that was the ultimate goal.

 

Another interesting point--we held our Meet and Greet in the Wake View Bar which is on deck 6 behind the restaurant. When I met Karen, she commented that her husband couldn't attend because Passenger Services told her that the only entrance was down the stairs from Club Fusion. I stated that I had gotten there by going thru the restaurant--I went to the restaurant entrance and told them where I as going; a server escorted me to the bar. Upon learning this, she went and got her husband who was the other person in the elevator with a walker and he also entered thru the restaurant.

Edited September 3, 2016 by moki'smommy

[moki'smommy]

No where did I say that any of these issues "ruined our cruise." I was surprised by these issues as they have not occurred on any of our other cruises including those on other Princess ships. That would be 36 cruises on 4 different lines. In fact, we intentionally booked a 7 night cruise to "check out" Princess prior to booking a long cruise with them.

 

So...by the logic presented by some posters, it is OK to say that I didn't like the Curtis Stone food because others have posted the same thing many times, but it is not OK to post that my daughter encountered some mobility difficulties on the ship because others have not posted that? I reported on our personal experience. This may or may not reflect the experience of others on this or other ships. It is a report of our experience.

 

It certainly did not ruin our cruise. She found ways to work around the difficulties. It meant she needed to wear her braces when going off the ship because they make stairs much easier for her. They are also cumbersome, hot, take time to put on, and don't fit in attractive shoes. They also increase her walking ability and decrease the risk of falling. She is an adult, knows her medical condition better than anyone else, and makes a decision based on how she is functioning and the length/difficulty of a proposed activity as to what will work best for her. And sometimes she makes the wrong choice.

 

We found the people at the excursion desk to be very helpful in planning excursions by providing more information than was available on line or in the flyer. Sometimes there was a crew member available who had evaluated the excursion for Princess and could give us a lot of information. For example, there was an excursion listed as high activity. We learned that we could pay $1 for a tram ride that would take us to the top of the mountain where the activity was and would avoid a very long stairway. That made it possible to do this excursion and left only the walk from the bus to the tram which was manageable. The high activity notation was due to that stairway. In other cases, an excursion might include 3 stops, one of which we learned she couldn't do. It was then our choice to go or not, knowing in advance that she'd spend that stop either on the bus or often in a gift shop area near the bus stop.

 

On embarkation day when she walked into the dining room with the walker, we were shown to a table that did not require the small step up to some of the other tables--a nice convenience.

 

Bottom line--these difficulties did not ruin our vacation. They were things unexpected and caused some difficulty. I never said "I hate Princess, we will never cruise Princess again, we will never cruise the Diamond again" or any such comments. I didn't whine. I didn't complain that she couldn't participate in dance classes or other obvious and irrelevant issues. I reported our experience in a factual manner and responded to people's questions and comments. Quite the opposite--we found most Princess personnel to be quite helpful and lovely people.

 

And I do appreciate the support of most of the people on this thread.

[Coral]

No, the ship was accessible only because the OP's daughter did a work around. She had to go to one of the public decks if she wanted to move from one end of the ship to the other. On their own deck the metal strips covering the carpet joins/holding carpet in place were of a particular style not seen on the other ships they have been on. If I understand correctly they were very square and sat well above the carpet with the result that the walker wheels could not roll over them. This is something well within Princess' capabilities to fix.

 

I am familiar with this. This is workable IMO.

 

My Mom had a Seeing Eye dog and every time we came across one of these, she stopped and treated it like a step so my Mom would not trip.

 

We sailed on the Sapphire more than any other ship with my Mom so I remember these. If one had a walker, they could lift this up and move over it. I saw plenty of people doing this on my cruises. I saw plenty of people in walkers, wheelchairs, braces on my many Sapphire cruises (most were B2B or B2B2B) and most thought the ship was pretty accessible. I was probably on this ship 10x with my Mom. I do have a friend who does where leg braces and does also use a walker and thoroughly enjoyed the Diamond Princess in Alaska a few years ago. They did not mention any issues.

 

I never experienced the issue the OP had with getting off the ship. The dog stops at every step so I would really have remembered that if we had issues getting on or off the ship. Sapphire and Diamond were sisters at one point. I think the fact that these ships were built in Japan, I found them far superior than ships built in Italy.

 

Having sailed many cruise lines with my Mom, I have to say that the crew members on Princess were simply the best on dealing with people with disabilities (Celebrity was the absolute worst). Princess usually assigned us an officer of some sort who would check on us daily to make sure everything was going well.

 

People with disabilities or people who travel with those with disabilities definitely see ships differently. My Mom didn't think it was a big deal to have those metal pieces on the carpet. We are also used to "taking different routes" to make things easier. So I don't think taking an elevator to go to another deck to move across the ship is that inconvenient in the scope of a cruise. For example - if one wants to get to other parts of the ship such as Skywalkers, one has to either take steps or take a specific elevator to get there. Those with disabilities do make a lot of sacrifices that others do not even think of but this is normal. It doesn't matter where I took my Mom - I always had to be thinking ahead of the best way to get around before we got there. My Mom was just thrilled to travel via cruise and honestly didn't complain one bit. Princess treated her like a VIP.

 

I completely understand the complaint the OP had with the elevators. We had the worst issue with this on the Crown Princess. This has everything to do with rude passengers. It was more of an issue for us on the Crown Princess because there are 500 more people on this ship and no more elevators on the ship to accommodate the extra passengers. I have avoided this ship and her sisters since as I found it the most crowded ship I have ever sailed on.

 

I really am surprised about not having more of a ramp getting on and off the ship. We would often look at both entrances/exists and use the one with the ramp. Maybe there were more wheelchairs on the sailings we were on that they made sure there was one that acted like a ramp.

 

Overall from my experiences, I have to say Princess does an excellent job with those with disabilities, especially when comparing Princess to other lines.

 

I am sorry the OP did not have a better cruise. I have learned to stand up and ask for things to help. I would probably have asked if there was a better way to get on or off the ship and if they could implement this on the next port. I personally had pretty good response when asking.

 

Also - as one who traveled with a disabled person before the Supreme Court ruled on ADA and after, the ships have come a very long way! They are so much better! I am one who wants to thank the Supreme Court for that ruling.

 

BTW - my Mom had more issues getting around where I work (an old college campus that is not very ADA as the old buildings don't have to comply, do not have elevators, uneven concrete, etc..) than any ship on Princess.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Coral

[OzKiwiJJ]

moki'smommy, I hope you haven't misinterpreted my comments. I think your evaluation and comments on the difficulties encountered have been fair and reasonable, and provided very useful information for others in similar situations.

[Coral]

Just to add a fact to the situation.

 

The Diamond Princess came out in 2004. The Supreme Court ruling about cruise ships ruled in 2005: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spector_v._Norwegian_Cruise_Line_Ltd.

 

This may be why the OP finds newer ships on Princess better.

 

IMO - I think Princess did a great job with ships prior to the ruling in regards to those with disabilities. If the OP wants to disagree with me, that is fine. I have sailed on ships that had no regards to those with disabilities in the late 90's and early 2000's and at least Princess IMO did try to meet regulations before they were required to do so.

 

Some of the suggestions people made as far as "waiting 30 minutes and leaving Muster later" applied to many things in our daily life back home. For example, attending a musical or theatre performance, we always knew to arrive early and leave late to avoid the massive crowds and pushing. Try tackling a parking garage after a musical - impossible. This is just a "mind opener" to those who have not dealt with disabilities the sacrifices people make by having their disability and just dealing with every day life. They do have many challenges that most of us don't think of, beyond their disability.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Coral

[moki'smommy]

To those of you who have posted many kind comments--thank you. And yes, we did have a good cruise and a good week in Tokyo. Everything we encountered on the ship could be worked around; as I stated, they were issues that surprised us but in no way "ruined" our cruise. That would have been ridiculous on our part had we allowed inconveniences to spoil a vacation.

 

My purpose in posting was to point out that we encountered difficulties on this ship that we had not encountered on other Princess ships. I cannot comment on why these issues happened. I suspect the ship's personnel had a reason for stairs rather than a ramp. I don't know whether these strips were original equipment or a replacement at a dry dock or why these were a problem but those on the Caribbean Princess were not an issue for my daughter. If we are on the Caribbean Princess again, I will examine those strips to see what the difference is; I theorize that there must be a difference because the cruises were 8 months apart with the same daughter and same walker. While her condition is progressive and will worsen over time, I don't think there has been enough change in her over 8 months to explain the difference.

 

Again, each person is different. Each disability issue is different. And to the many supportive posters here, thank you.

[CATGUY7]

To those of you who have posted many kind comments--thank you. And yes' date=' we did have a good cruise and a good week in Tokyo. Everything we encountered on the ship could be worked around; as I stated, they were issues that surprised us but in no way "ruined" our cruise. That would have been ridiculous on our part had we allowed inconveniences to spoil a vacation.

 

My purpose in posting was to point out that we encountered difficulties on this ship that we had not encountered on other Princess ships. I cannot comment on why these issues happened. I suspect the ship's personnel had a reason for stairs rather than a ramp. I don't know whether these strips were original equipment or a replacement at a dry dock or why these were a problem but those on the Caribbean Princess were not an issue for my daughter. If we are on the Caribbean Princess again, I will examine those strips to see what the difference is; I theorize that there must be a difference because the cruises were 8 months apart with the same daughter and same walker. While her condition is progressive and will worsen over time, I don't think there has been enough change in her over 8 months to explain the difference.

 

Again, each person is different. Each disability issue is different. And to the many supportive posters here, thank you.[/quote']

 

And if issues are never raised, changes will never be made. Thank you for posting your experiences.

[moki'smommy]

It appears that a moderator has taken action here. Thanks!

[Coral]

 

My purpose in posting was to point out that we encountered difficulties on this ship that we had not encountered on other Princess ships. I cannot comment on why these issues happened. I suspect the ship's personnel had a reason for stairs rather than a ramp. I don't know whether these strips were original equipment or a replacement at a dry dock or why these were a problem but those on the Caribbean Princess were not an issue for my daughter. If we are on the Caribbean Princess again' date=' I will examine those strips to see what the difference is; I theorize that there must be a difference because the cruises were 8 months apart with the same daughter and same walker. While her condition is progressive and will worsen over time, I don't think there has been enough change in her over 8 months to explain the difference.

 

Again, each person is different. Each disability issue is different. And to the many supportive posters here, thank you.[/quote']

 

The Sapphire and Diamond Princess were built in Japan. Most of the other Princess ships were built in Italy. I don't think it was a retrofit but original equipment.

 

I am guessing that we have cruised longer than you have and on various lines and ships that are older, so we are probably more tolerant for these things and having to make adjustments. My Mom also became disabled right around the time ADA was passed. My guess is your daughter has probably had ADA her entire life (which is a good thing!).

 

Glad you were able to enjoy the trip despite these issues.

 

I would probably advise you to do quite a bit of research if you and your daughter visit Europe in the future. Some parts of Europe just are not very accessible.

[RJ2002]

Welcome back from your cruise. While I am sorry for the difficulties which were encountered, I am happy to see that they did not ruin the overall experience for you.

 

We were on the Diamond in May/June this year, on one of the Grand Japan voyages (actually a b2b cruise). We truly enjoyed our time on the Diamond, as well as all the unique ports.

[moki'smommy]

The Sapphire and Diamond Princess were built in Japan. Most of the other Princess ships were built in Italy. I don't think it was a retrofit but original equipment.

 

I am guessing that we have cruised longer than you have and on various lines and ships that are older, so we are probably more tolerant for these things and having to make adjustments. My Mom also became disabled right around the time ADA was passed. My guess is your daughter has probably had ADA her entire life (which is a good thing!).

 

Glad you were able to enjoy the trip despite these issues.

 

I would probably advise you to do quite a bit of research if you and your daughter visit Europe in the future. Some parts of Europe just are not very accessible.

 

Hi Coral,

 

While my daughter has had her disease her entire life, it has only progressed to the point of being disabling in the past 5 years or so. We have been cruising for 20 years, but do not have a lot of experience on Princess.

 

Yes, we are well familiar with the European issues, having cruised there as well as daughter attending grad school in London for a year. Unfortunately she had to leave as her disease progressed and it became increasingly difficult just to live in the area. For others--the tourist areas in London have been largely made to comply with the British disability laws. This includes the tube stations at Heathrow and in Zone 1. Tube stations outside the tourist areas are slowly being made more accessible, one station at a time. It is a costly and lengthy process. You may find the bus transportation easier if stairs are an issue as the buses "kneel" to make boarding easier.

 

You are very right that Europe in general is not handicap friendly (at least that's our experience). Interestingly, Japan is. Each station has escalators and elevators but you may need to look for them. Most buildings have elevators. We encountered no real problems in Tokyo during our week there following the cruise.

[Coral]

 

You are very right that Europe in general is not handicap friendly (at least that's our experience). Interestingly' date=' Japan is. Each station has escalators and elevators but you may need to look for them. Most buildings have elevators. We encountered no real problems in Tokyo during our week there following the cruise.[/quote']

 

I was surprised at Japan also! We were based out of Osaka for our trip and Osaka was very "Friendly". Other places we visited from there were not as much. I did not have my Mom with me on this trip but like you, I am always observing how "friendly" places are.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Coral

[WupperAV]

There are some real HOGS in this world and we run into them when shows let out or after muster. My wife uses an electric wheel chair and was sitting in front of the elevator doors and the Pigs wouldn't let her in in 2 rounds. I got mad, I'm a Vietnam Vet and have little tolerance for injustice) and told 3 couples over 60 to wait until she got on. One lady made a comment about how pushy and impolite handicapped people were and I went off on her. My wife has impeccable manners, was raised in NY and had been a Ballerina. She won't even reply when someone says anything bad like that. Not me. I'd like to slap some manners into them. I don't like it when you get to the Plaza level of a ship and everyone thinks they can push you, I weigh 216 lb and I don't push, just block.

[MommaBear55]

It appears that a moderator has taken action here. Thanks!

 

And my comment seems to have been removed, as it was in part a response to the ones removed. I hope you got to read it because it was very supportive.

[moki'smommy]

Yes, Momma Bear, I did read your post--thank you. I'm sorry that some positive posts got deleted along with the nasty ones.

 

Obviously, there was only one individual who felt the need to be a jerk. I hope he never gets old, has a serious accident, or develops a disability as he just won't have a clue.

 

We have found that when exiting the theatre it works better to go to the midship elevators which are usually less crowded. Not an option if your cabin is forward, but it helps if you are mid or aft. This doesn't excuse rude passengers, but at least we encounter fewer of them.

Edited September 3, 2016 by moki'smommy

[vampiress]

ah, i'm glad the nasty is gone.

 

i found it very interesting that this was an issue. as an abled bodied person you don't always think about that. i have a friend who has mobility issues and it is definitely something more on my radar now.

 

did you report the issue while on the boat or reach out to princess directly? it might be something they would want to consider smoothing out the next time the ship is being refurbished. i would think it cold be problematic for the stewards carts and luggage as well.

 

i'm also shocked they didn't have some staff acting as traffic directors at the elevators, especially since everyone is so new to ship. most of the other cruises i have been on, there was someone pointing out alternative routes away from muster and/or trying to keep the elevator traffic calm and orderly. this is another suggestion i think should go to the cruise line, it seems like such a simple fix that would benefit everyone.

Edited September 3, 2016 by vampiress

[moki'smommy]

Yes, I contacted Princess thru a letter that I left at Passenger Services and one that I wrote to the office in California. Whether it will get to the right person, I don't know.

 

I don't know if these present a problem to the hosts with their carts or not. They've obviously learned how to get across the joiners. It might relate to wheel size, amount of "push" or weight of the carts, or whatever else. Had this problem occurred on each ship where she has used the walker, I'd figure it was just a part of cruising. The fact that it was limited to just this one ship....I don't know.

 

There will always be rude people, but I've never seen it at this level. If the lady had to ride with her friend, she could have gotten out and they could both have waited for the next one! To scream at someone who needed to be on an elevator was unbelievable. Again, we will just leave the drill a minute or so early in the future rather than the few seconds early that Princess gave. In fact, we advised the section leader at the second drill that this was our intent...and she told us that we didn't need to be there since it was a B2B for us. The funny thing is that we asked if our attendance was required (at Passenger Services) and were told "yes." In any event our cards were scanned, so whether we needed to be there or not we were checked in.

[Steelers0854]

Moki-

 

I think this is a great thread as you very well know there isn't a whole lot of information posted here about the Diamond when compared to other ships in the fleet. As someone without a disability the points you made are ones that I would not have noticed (except the muster drill) and I think will be of great value to those who need this information going forward.

 

I wonder if speaking with an officer about the gangway issues would have made any difference while you were onboard. Maybe you tried this and that's why you followed up with a letter?

 

I sincerely hope you post a review of the cruise. Since you posted a few months ago about booking this trip I have been looking forward to reading it as we are taking the Diamond in 2018 to Australia and NZ.

 

I'm really glad to hear that you guys had a great time despite a few stumbling blocks.

[caribill]

I suspect the ship's personnel had a reason for stairs rather than a ramp.

 

I do not know if this applies to your situation, but I have seen on some Princess ships where the ramp/stairs are actually the same equipment.

 

Whether it is just a ramp or changes into steps depends on

 

o how high the tide is which can make the stairs/ramp higher from the dock and thus stairs when the tide is high and a ramp when the tide is low

 

o how far onto the dock the ramp/stairs could reach, with the longer it can reach the more it is a ramp

[Brisbane41]

I do not know if this applies to your situation, but I have seen on some Princess ships where the ramp/stairs are actually the same equipment.

 

Whether it is just a ramp or changes into steps depends on

 

o how high the tide is which can make the stairs/ramp higher from the dock and thus stairs when the tide is high and a ramp when the tide is low

 

o how far onto the dock the ramp/stairs could reach, with the longer it can reach the more it is a ramp

 

It is all based on geometry like you say and the angle which it can be deployed. I have been on the Diamond Princess from Japan and seen it first hand. The terminal is at a level where the angle of the gangway dictates stairs are used and there is no air bridge at the terminal. Situations like this are not unique to Diamond Princess and are just incidental to the port where the ship docks. It could have happened to any ship. It does not mean Diamond Princess is any more challenging than the other ships.

[Pushka]

TripleJ - my comment was deleted but it certainly wasn't in response to you. My bad - I will quote next time.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[shredie]

I do not know if this applies to your situation, but I have seen on some Princess ships where the ramp/stairs are actually the same equipment.

 

Whether it is just a ramp or changes into steps depends on

 

o how high the tide is which can make the stairs/ramp higher from the dock and thus stairs when the tide is high and a ramp when the tide is low

 

o how far onto the dock the ramp/stairs could reach, with the longer it can reach the more it is a ramp

 

Bill, didn't we see this sort of thing on the Pacific Princess in Mexico? Someone tripped and fell, as I recall. In any case, I think OP was concerned more that there was little help from staff while boarding than the specific configuration of the stairs/ramp.

[Coral]

I do not know if this applies to your situation, but I have seen on some Princess ships where the ramp/stairs are actually the same equipment.

 

Whether it is just a ramp or changes into steps depends on

 

o how high the tide is which can make the stairs/ramp higher from the dock and thus stairs when the tide is high and a ramp when the tide is low

 

o how far onto the dock the ramp/stairs could reach, with the longer it can reach the more it is a ramp

 

Yes - it is like this on the Sapphire. It can either be flat in a ramp or made into steps.

 

Though I have seen 2 different entrances used on 2 different levels at the same time. So one had a flat ramp and the other steps.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Coral

[moki'smommy]

On the initial boarding of the ship, I was concerned that the help we were told she would have (and has had on every other Princess cruise) did not show up. The person in charge of boarding called for special assist boarding, but there were no assistants and no wheelchairs. She typically uses a wheelchair to board because we have no idea how steep a ramp might be or what the distance is (it sometimes zigzags several times!)

 

We were shocked to find that it was a short distance but was stairs rather than a ramp.

 

DIFFERENT ISSUE:

 

At ports of call, we did not expect help and she does not use a wheelchair as these are typical short distances. But again, it was set up as stairs. They were sometimes "normal" stairs, sometimes with a rise of only 2-3 inches, but always stairs. Stairs are the hardest part of walking for my daughter, with the walker or with braces alone. Again, on all previous cruises we have had ramps or a ramp at one gangway and steps at another. We were surprised that there was no ramp at any port until the final disembarkation day.

 

Yes, these stairs were part of the ship's equipment. They can be manipulated to form stairs or to form a ramp based on the geometry. I do understand that they must cover the distance from the door to the pavement. Is there only one spot on the pavement where they can be "tied down?" If that is true, how can they sometimes have a ramp at one entrance but stairs at another? There were typically crew at these stairs to assist those in manual chairs (this did not apply to my daughter). It made no sense to me that they were bumping/carrying people up the stairs. NO criticism of assistance or lack thereof at these ports. My concern was lack of a ramp at ports of call.