Tipping (sorry!)

[keithm]

Same here. I leave the auto gratuity on and tip additionally on the last day to those who give great service. If somebody appears to have a bad attitude or doesn't go beyond what is required then no extra tip. I'd have to get terrible service from multiple crew members in order to remove auto gratuities. (Should such a scenario happen it would be my last Cunard sailing anyway.)

 

 

However I do find that small envelopes are useful and pack a few. They're not a showy as the business size ones and can be passed more discretely. The amount of money inside can be varied according to the crew member and I'm not handling a wad of bills. But that's what works for me.

We tip extra along the lines of the "Berlitz Guide to Cruise ships & Cruising".

[keithm]

I assume you include me amongst the 'grousers'? We have been extremely fortunate over the years to have been able to cruise many times, not all with Cunard, and we have never ever 'stiffed the hard working people' as you so elegantly put it. In fact we have even tipped extra for good service.

 

As I've said before you and others here don't know our situation so can't truly comment. If you expect me to 'bare my soul and tell all' then you are going to be disappointed. Our 'problems' are ours and nobody else's. We will enjoy our cruise and I promise you this - we will not 'stiff the hard working people' which is where this post started.

No, I did not say you stiffed the staff! Personally, I can't do a 29 day trip, my work schedule prevents it. I do make sure the staff get their due tip on our 12-15 day cruises. We always have tipped extra along the lines of the "Berlitz" guide to cruising. I feel it's a proper guide to all ships & the respective cruise lines. Do I feel Cunard should pay the prevailing wage? How do you & others feel that would affect fares? A Britannia cruise the cost of a Q-5 stateroom certainly would not be worth it to me. We did 2 trips in the Grills. It was beyond a doubt the best time we ever had on a ship, but cruising that way all the time is just beyond our means.

[keithm]

What a difficult subject... I come from a country where tipping is not usual. In Restaurants or taxis you may round up the figure but you are not obliged to.

 

On the cruise ship I always keep the automatic "service charge" on and expect a good service. Wherever I come across staff who go the extra mile, I am happy to tipp them additionally. I know that many people say give them on the first day a good tipp and you will get a great service. But I see it the other way round. Give me a great service and I will tipp you additiionally.

 

On the last day on QV last year all my table mates (all British) came with envelopes and it was somehow a big thing giving them to the staff. I just had some Dollar bills which I unspectacularly gave to the people. And all the time I was wondering, how much would have been the right amount? I wish I could have seen into those envelopes...

 

I did not tipp my butler additionally to the "service charge", because he was unhelpful and at some point also very unprofessional, even rude. On the other hand the assistant butler was just fantastic! Helped me basically each day into my evening dresses in an absolut fantastic and friendly way. I gave her what I think a good extra tipp (20 dollars every second or third day). I gave her that tipp from my heart, as I had the feeling she did not help me because she had to, but because she liked to.

 

If only the subject tipping would be more clear....

Extra tipping(over & above the auto tip)is totally at your discretion. We go by the "Berlitz guide to Cruise ships & Cruising". They have a standard(theirs, obviously!)I'll be honest that in our last Queens Grill trip(Nov.2010 on the QM2-10 days))We tipped the following: $100 to our Butler, Lily/$100 to our cabin steward/$100 to our waiter/$50ea. to our 2 asst.waiters. & $50 to Osman, just because he was incredibly helpful in our dining choices. My spouse & I are both in the food industry & Osman really went out of his way to help.

Some pax tipped far more than us, some less. For us, we felt it was the right amount.

[Victoria2]

I'd love to know if those who 'pronounce' on the subject of how staff are paid and how wages on Cunard compare with other premium/luxury cruise lines actually know or if they are following the conventional wisdom which has been generated through hundreds of posts on the subject. Is there a definitive post on this board from one whose knowledge on the subject can't be disputed and if so, can a link be published please?

 

I would be very happy with a non removable service charge, but that's because we always pay it so it would have no effect on us. If the headline price increases, so be it. We will still cruise with Cunard. As it is, I don't agree with removing grats/service charge and we are in the discreet group when handing out our personal thanks but I would never ever make comments about those who remove/lower their automatic service charges because it is entirely up to the individual.

 

Equally, as one who has read many tipping threads over the years, I know the announcing of the possibility of lowering the amount one gives means that flack, individually directed or general, is inevitable and one shouldn't be at all surprised when it is forthcoming.

 

Cunard Dress Codes and Tipping. Two emotive subjects.T'was ever thus!

[babs135]

Cunard Dress Codes and Tipping. Two emotive subjects.T'was ever thus!

 

 

Time CC banned these threads :D Although if they did, what would we talk about ;p

[balf]

Cunard Dress Codes and Tipping. Two emotive subjects.T'was ever thus!

 

 

Time CC banned these threads :D Although if they did, what would we talk about ;p

 

Dress codes, which would be even more boring.

 

David.

[majortom10]

In the news yesterday that average pay in Kenya $150 a month now I know there are perhaps not many Kenyans working on Cunard but it just shows what average pay is in poorer parts of the world and that is why the likes of Carnival Corp i.e. Cunard source their staff from these poorly paid countries so that they can lower their costs and improve profits. They then expect customers to pay extortionate gratuities to relieve their guilt on paying such poor pay and make them feel guilty for removing gratuities and some fall for that trap and say others are "stiffing" the staff. There are only one group of people "stiffing" their staff and that is Carnival Corp and do not and will never believe that all gratuities plus extra 15% on every drink goes completely to staff wages as some will be taken off for "administration" which means again increasing Carnival Corp profits. Would never dream of paying over £400 in gratuities to hotel staff at end of 14nt holiday and don't see why cruises should be any different they serve my meals and clean my room no different than hotel staff.

[BlueRiband]

The difference is that hotel staff go home to their families each night after an 8-hour shift. They're not bunking an a windowless room. (And in the US it is customarily to tip housekeeping per night.)

 

The historic, tax, and pricing reasons for charging autogratuities rather than rolling the cost into the fare have already been explained on these boards. Until the system changes it is a huge part of crew compensation and it's the crew member who suffers whenever anyone removes them. It's really sad to see that argument, "Cunard lets me do it so therefore it's their fault that I can".

 

Regent, Seabourn, and Silversea don't charge autogratuities. Staff compensation is rolled into the fare. Cunard passengers however would be unwilling to pay these fares. Instead we would see complaints that Cunard isn't "worth" the 400 GBP more than their competitor.

[brell]

The autogratuities are indeed "rolled into the fare" at Cunard, UK. Much better than the other way around.

[Victoria2]

In the news yesterday that average pay in Kenya $150 a month now I know there are perhaps not many Kenyans working on Cunard but it just shows what average pay is in poorer parts of the world and that is why the likes of Carnival Corp i.e. Cunard source their staff from these poorly paid countries so that they can lower their costs and improve profits. They then expect customers to pay extortionate gratuities to relieve their guilt on paying such poor pay and make them feel guilty for removing gratuities and some fall for that trap and say others are "stiffing" the staff. There are only one group of people "stiffing" their staff and that is Carnival Corp and do not and will never believe that all gratuities plus extra 15% on every drink goes completely to staff wages as some will be taken off for "administration" which means again increasing Carnival Corp profits. Would never dream of paying over £400 in gratuities to hotel staff at end of 14nt holiday and don't see why cruises should be any different they serve my meals and clean my room no different than hotel staff.

Do you know for a fact there is one group 'stiffing'? Do you know for a fact the staff are poorly paid and have to rely on grats. to make a real living? Have you ever got to know a member of staff sufficiently to ask and know you'll get an honest reply? I would never ask such an intrusive question but I have got to know staff and when near to the end of their contracts asked if they will renew them once the current one comes to an end. The answer is usually a resounding 'yes' and always said with a genuine smile as if to say 'of course'. Is that down to their gratuities? I don't know.

 

Families are being looked after and their futures secured and often children educated in a manner which would not be possible for some if not for the Cunard job.

 

Cunard's 'sourced' staff are composed of all manner of nationalities including a few Brits and Europeans. Staff from India and the surrounding countries might make up the bulk of the staff but strangely enough, I put that down to the fact hotel/restaurant service is considered a good job in those countries and not looked down upon as it is by some in the UK for instance. They have the art of looking after people in their care down to a fine art.

 

You might have insider knowledge of staff wages and if so, I wish you'd tell me the source. I genuinely don't know what to believe, staff who seem happy or cruise boards which rail on their behalf about their poor wages.

 

As for hotel tipping, we always leave a decent amount as a thank you, per night for our room staff and add decent grats onto a meal bill in addition to any service charge imposed on the room rate.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Victoria2

[Morgans]

Babs - sorry that your financial situation is now more constrained than previously. Go on your holiday and enjoy every minute. If you wish to remove the tips (or whatever they're called) then do so. Tip directly what you can and don't give it a second thought .....it is no one's business but your own. Have a lovely, lovely holiday ( and I am sure you will.)

That goes for everyone else too - tipping is your own business. No one has the right to tell you how much to tip - it's not law and you will not be clamped in irons. Do what you think is fair and what you think is right for your own circumstances.

[BlueRiband]

Babs - sorry that your financial situation is now more constrained than previously. Go on your holiday and enjoy every minute. If you wish to remove the tips (or whatever they're called) then do so. Tip directly what you can and don't give it a second thought .....it is no one's business but your own. Have a lovely, lovely holiday ( and I am sure you will.)

That goes for everyone else too - tipping is your own business. No one has the right to tell you how much to tip - it's not law and you will not be clamped in irons. Do what you think is fair and what you think is right for your own circumstances.

 

I have to disagree with that statement because on board we are served by many crew members beyond our steward and regular waiters. Deck stewards, pool attendants, and buffet servers immediately come to mind. The autogratuity means that somebody doesn't constantly have their hand out as is the case on some lines. At times it's also not logistically possible to tip them all directly. How is one to do that if in the last night one of your waiters has to be reassigned because they are short handed somewhere else? Did somebody in the Chef's Galley make you a perfect berger every afternoon? I'd like to think he or she was remembered on the last day.

 

 

As for "your own circumstances" some use their "financial situation" as a retiree (or pensioner on the UK side) as an excuse to remove them. Somebody who has been in the labor force should understand the concept of compensation for work. The crew isn't retired and should not have to financially suffer become somebody thinks the the normal and customary charges don't apply to them.

 

Where I would agree with you is on any tipping above and over the autogratuity. That is a purely personal decision.

[insanemagnet]

The crew isn't retired and should not have to financially suffer become somebody thinks the the normal and customary charges don't apply to them.

 

And that could not happen if Cunard did not create the situation in the first place.

 

If a crew member doesn't get paid because someone removes an optional service charge, then 99% of the blame should be directed at the employer who is using these dubious employment contracts and hidden cost marketing, not the customer.

[majortom10]

And that could not happen if Cunard did not create the situation in the first place.

 

If a crew member doesn't get paid because someone removes an optional service charge, then 99% of the blame should be directed at the employer who is using these dubious employment contracts and hidden cost marketing, not the customer.

 

Agree with your sentiments entirely and at the end of the day gratuity/service charge/tips or whatever Cunard want to call it are optional so it is up to the individual how much or if at all they tip and nothing to do with anyone else.

[BlueRiband]

Cunard didn't start this gratuity system. Tipping in lieu of a regular salary was started by a line you may have heard of - White Star. (Cunard merged with White Star in the 1930s.) There was a belief that great service staff will receive plenty tips and be happy to stay on the job. Poor service staff will not receive very much in the way of tips and be quite happy to leave. But then almost all crew members were from the UK.

 

Crew members today come from all over the planet. Each one of the nationalities represented has a different set of tax laws that apply to his or her earnings. In most of those countries, gratuities are not taxed, but earnings are. If passenger fares are increased to cover the gratuities, the total earnings of the service staff will all be taxable - in effect further reducing their salaries.

 

The staff's official salary is very low, meaning they have little or no tax liability in their home countries. If there is a change to a salaried system, many countries would not only require the crew to pay income taxes on all those earnings, but would also require the cruise lines to pay local payroll taxes on those total earnings. The cruise lines would be forced to increase your cruise fares much higher to cover the substantial financial losses by the crew and the cruise line companies. It could not happen unless all the labor contracts with all the unions are renegotiated, which could take years.

 

I live in New York, where the prorated portion of professional athlete's salaries are taxed when they play here. If local tax authorities believed that going after crew salaries during layover in New York was worth the trouble they would do it in a heartbeat.

 

 

The other argument is that once the tipping concept is removed where is the incentive to do a great job?

 

I'd rather see all service charges and taxes rolled into the fare where the only extra charges are those that are truly extra. and discretionary. But unless you and I are able to convince our fellow passengers to pay double what we pay now it's not going to happen.

 

It's very sad that anybody would use the argument, "it's Cunard's fault that the crew is being stiffed because they set up this system and I'm within my right to save money". It has nothing to do with principal but everything to do with obstinance.

[ToadOfToadHall]

The staff's official salary is very low, meaning they have little or no tax liability in their home countries.

 

What figure do you suggest for say a drinks waiter ?

[majortom10]

The difference is that hotel staff go home to their families each night after an 8-hour shift. They're not bunking an a windowless room. (And in the US it is customarily to tip housekeeping per night.)

 

The historic, tax, and pricing reasons for charging autogratuities rather than rolling the cost into the fare have already been explained on these boards. Until the system changes it is a huge part of crew compensation and it's the crew member who suffers whenever anyone removes them. It's really sad to see that argument, "Cunard lets me do it so therefore it's their fault that I can".

 

Regent, Seabourn, and Silversea don't charge autogratuities. Staff compensation is rolled into the fare. Cunard passengers however would be unwilling to pay these fares. Instead we would see complaints that Cunard isn't "worth" the 400 GBP more than their competitor.

 

Nobody forces them to leave their homes and families they do it for the high rewards in wages compared to what they get paid in their own country and many from all over the world leave home and their families to work in hotels in most major cities of the world without the benefit of extortionate gratuities being put on customers.

 

It may well be customary in the US to tip daily but it is not in the UK and there is no need for the "tipping everybody" like you do in the US as the minimum wage is higher in the UK and staff don't rely on tips to make a decent wage. What you do in US is no concern of me and take great offence of saying I am "stiffing" the staff because I do not partake in US practice.

[Victoria2]

Cunard didn't start this gratuity system. Tipping in lieu of a regular salary was started by a line you may have heard of - White Star. (Cunard merged with White Star in the 1930s.) There was a belief that great service staff will receive plenty tips and be happy to stay on the job. Poor service staff will not receive very much in the way of tips and be quite happy to leave. But then almost all crew members were from the UK.

 

Crew members today come from all over the planet. Each one of the nationalities represented has a different set of tax laws that apply to his or her earnings. In most of those countries, gratuities are not taxed, but earnings are. If passenger fares are increased to cover the gratuities, the total earnings of the service staff will all be taxable - in effect further reducing their salaries.

 

The staff's official salary is very low, meaning they have little or no tax liability in their home countries. If there is a change to a salaried system, many countries would not only require the crew to pay income taxes on all those earnings, but would also require the cruise lines to pay local payroll taxes on those total earnings. The cruise lines would be forced to increase your cruise fares much higher to cover the substantial financial losses by the crew and the cruise line companies. It could not happen unless all the labor contracts with all the unions are renegotiated, which could take years.

 

I live in New York, where the prorated portion of professional athlete's salaries are taxed when they play here. If local tax authorities believed that going after crew salaries during layover in New York was worth the trouble they would do it in a heartbeat.

 

 

The other argument is that once the tipping concept is removed where is the incentive to do a great job?

 

I'd rather see all service charges and taxes rolled into the fare where the only extra charges are those that are truly extra. and discretionary. But unless you and I are able to convince our fellow passengers to pay double what we pay now it's not going to happen.

 

It's very sad that anybody would use the argument, "it's Cunard's fault that the crew is being stiffed because they set up this system and I'm within my right to save money". It has nothing to do with principal but everything to do with obstinance.

I don't understand all this tax business and who pays what and where or if gratuities are tax free all the time but I'm interested to know if India's tax authorities require tax to be paid by their seafaring citizens if certain requirements are met? .I ask because the staff I have chatted with who renew their contracts are Indian/Goan and seem very happy with their lot.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Victoria2

[insanemagnet]

But unless you and I are able to convince our fellow passengers to pay double what we pay now it's not going to happen.

 

Your taxation argument is simply wrong. As for paying double, are you really only paying $11 a night for your fare?

 

Anyway for all your arguments of can't be done, NCL are doing it right now.

[Salacia]

What figure do you suggest for say a drinks waiter ?

 

Toad, I know you didn't ask me the question, but I've been thinking about it....A drinks waiter on a cruise ship who also is required to do other duties on turn-around days, train and perform in emergency situations, participate in code red (noro virus) duties, work how many hours per day per week for how many months? Gee, I have no idea what I'd suggest as adequate compensation.

 

All I can do is pay my fare, including the Hotel and Dining Charge - anything over that is an individual decision.

 

I have been told by long time cruisers from the UK, that tipping the staff was never in dispute - it was just the "done thing" to discretely give envelopes at the end of the cruise, so I'm having trouble understanding why tipping seems to have evolved to an argument about what you do in your country vs what I do in mine.

 

We're talking about an international practice on ships that has nothing to do with an individual's country of origin, at least that's my way of looking at it and while I respect the opinion of those who remove the H&D charge on Cunard ships, I respectfully disagree that is in the best interest of the crew or the passengers to remove the H&D charge and stop tipping for extraordinary service.

 

Regards,

Salacia

[brian1]

Hi,a drinks waiter would come under the 15% bar grats,which is independant of the auto grats.I am only assuming this, as this is the system on Princess,cheers,Brian.

[ToadOfToadHall]

Let me be clear;

 

a) On my last cruise (only last week), and all other's bar my first one, I have left the daily auto charge in place. However, I did not tip anymore than that. I'm happy to state my position regarding that.

 

b) My problem with the attitude to tipping on this forum (and other forums as well) is that there's clearly received wisdom that crew members (waiters for example), are treated like slaves. People like to give the impression that they work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and are feed on grool and a weevil ridden ship's biscuit. Additionally they are paid $1/month and if they don't their tips then they and their families will starve to death in a ditch.

 

Further, that received wisdom mainly comes from people in the US as opposed to the UK (since this cultural difference has been raised many times before).

 

Using my example of a waiter; it's hardly a difficult job, it's not mentally demanding and it's not physically demanding. They are not rushing around constantly, most of the time they are just standing about, walking around and so on. They are not tied to the oars and being whipped. Hence I was asking what people think their salary is, given the actual nature of their work as opposed to the often highly exaggerated view of their duties/conditions of work.

[Host Hattie]

Thanks to those who answered the original question, unfortunately I have had to remove a number of posts as they do not comply with our guidelines.

This thread is now closed.