What's going on with P&O UK with TIPPING

[grapau27]

This tipping is now getting on my nerves, I thought leavingthe auto tips on would be sufficient. But I think I will feel very embarrassed on the last night when some guests are giving out envelopes towaiters and wine waiters and my husband and I just leave the table. They had a better system on Celebrity when you paid auto tips you got given envelopes togive to your cabin steward and waiters stating you had paid auto tips and if warranted a little extra was put in theenvelope.

We always prepay tips on RC.

They used to leave vouchers for the relevant crew indicating this was their tips.We would then put the voucher in the envelopes provided and hand them out.

Sadly a couple of years ago RC said they were saving paper???? so they stopped printing the prepaid vouchers but still left the envelopes and all the junk offers on paper during the cruise.

[joro44]

AnOnymously ref: 243

May I suggest that you read my note ref:191 above, that may answer some of your questions.

[AnOnymously]

AnOnymously ref: 243

May I suggest that you read my note ref:191 above, that may answer some of your questions.

Unfortunately none of them are answered.

 

Firstly you agree that your comments are not a official view, so all conjecture then. I want official statements. At least Celebrity do this on their website.

 

Secondly, what a pernicious way to behave towards staff to take away their salary at the whim of a guest, who may have asked for something totally unreasonable, not given it and so marked the waiter/steward down. Tips are an incentive to earn above your basic decent wage, not so your basic wage can be reduced, by what people have given in good faith. A carrot is always a better incentive than a stick, let alone better employer practice.

 

Thirdly, if the cruise line wants staff to be rewarded or not because of their outstanding abilities the allowing the guest to give or not is the best way, not a system where the auto grats are used for punishment. If a staff member consistently underperforms is that not a disciplinary situation for management to deal with.

 

I also ask again who pockets the money that is not given to staff for any reason. I guess that many cruise lines who use grats as a stick will not publish where the grats go, because doing anything other would be fraud and I don't really think that guests would be terribly happy to read in the T/C's that if a mamber of staff gets a vote of less than excellent the staff member gets a reduction in their meagre salary. And taking of meagre salaries, is there any reason why a person coming from a culture of low pay should be paid low wages. Are they not worth what you or I would expect for the job?

[joro44]

The auto tips are collected centrally, the base rates were increased by using a proportion of that collected. The remainder is awarded to those who are adjudged excellent from guests questionnaire responses. The idea being to reduce the effect of free loaders who were not using MDR's or failing to tip their steward. The obvious next step is to include the 'auto' amount in the cruise base price, raise base rates again and do as you suggest manage staff performance. Top end cruise lines seem to do this and still 'yanks' tip as is their culture.

[kalos]

I have to say that I usually pay auto-grats +.

 

But these questions need resolving

 

1. Do the crew get the grats? Yes they do

 

2. Which crew get them? Please see https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/life-on-board/gratuity

 

 

3. Are they withheld by the ship and what happens to them when they are, because they were given for the crew, is that fraud? Who really knows apart from P&O wages dep't ? If you have a pot and it is distributed 100% among the staff but a few underperformers are given let's say 75%

and the 25% shortfall is shared by the 100% performers ,they are not withholding anything.

As you say anything less would be fraud.

 

4. Are staff paid reasonable wages, are grats because they do a good job, which is my understanding of what they should be, or to make up a slave wage?

If the staff lived in the UK then yes it would be a poor wage . The staff come from countries such as India where the cost of living is far lower than ours .So in some respects it is a good wage , some work on P&O as they are saving for a house or some even save and send money back home .Ask yourself why would they do it if conditions were that bad ?

We have a friend who packed in working the ships ,she did about five years and has not worked since leaving. Last year she toured Europe has gone back home and plans to do a tour of the USA next. "There is money to be made but it's bloody hard work and hours ." Her words .

5. Why do cruise lines not act transparently about grats. Now this is a bit of a guess:confused:

If we turn it on it's head and say Why do we not act transparently about our wages ,savings

and bank balances to anyone ... Private ?? Same for companies who wish to keep their methods of running a company ..private .

6. Why are they not called service charges so that people from countries that either don't tip or tip for exceptional service or tip at a less generous rate do not feel aggrieved that they are forced to pay and thus seek to remove the auto grats? They are ,in the link posted in question 2 it says .."Rewarding good service every time it happens isn’t always easy. So, our Service Reward Programme is a simple, one-off way for you to say ‘thank you’ for all the service you receive. A discretionary amount of £6.00 is added to your on-board account each day, for each guest aged 12 and over. This helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler, who greatly appreciate your recognition of their hard work".

Note how it say's discretionary amount which means you are not forced to pay 6.00

You can pay more or you can pay less, it's up to you .

 

7. If one comes from one of the cultural backgrounds that do not normally tip at this rate, why do people keep calling them cheapskates? Because they do not understand that discretionary amount which means you are not forced to pay 6.00 You can pay more or you can pay less, it's up to you . It's your business and if you feel you have done the right thing by the staff ,what does it matter what others think .

 

8. If the ship does display lists of those who have removed AG, should the customer be told that data about them is being used ion this way? Certain countries have the Data protection act and also if a name was put up in error ie they were paying by envelope (old school bless them )

the company could be liable for slander of innocent parties .So I have no proof but would be shocked to find P&O UK risking a decent reputation on a piece of paper .

9. Surely it is not really in the cruise lines interest to encourage staff to treat some customers less than others by such displays. Poor service = no rebook. So if they do it, why do they do it?

 

See answer to number 8.

 

.

My brain is tired! You need to lie down .. Ooops sorry thought that was question 10 :cool:

 

Right ... No passes and are of my own opinion and no one else's apart from the lady in q4.

Please note some will possibly agree or disagree but that will not make either of us more right in our opinions and on that note have a nice weekend ! ;)

[AnOnymously]

Interesting comments. Just to take up

 

2. Which crew get them? Please see https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/li...board/gratuity

 

 

3. Are they withheld by the ship and what happens to them when they are, because they were given for the crew, is that fraud? Who really knows apart from P&O wages dep't ? If you have a pot and it is distributed 100% among the staff but a few underperformers are given let's say 75%

and the 25% shortfall is shared by the 100% performers ,they are not withholding anything.

As you say anything less would be fraud.

 

But it does not say in what proportion they are distributed to staff, it also does not say that it will be used as a weapon against staff by the cruise line. See my earlier comment. And as I said earlier also, more transparency about who really does get this is it only

"This helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler, who greatly appreciate your recognition of their hard work. "

And in what proportion and is money withheld? You might want to say that this all bound up in privacy, like our wages, but this is not cruise line money it is ours given for " good service" (P&O words), so we should know where it is going and the other matters I have related above.

[jeanlyon]

In answer to someone above, yes I know the wine waiter gets commission, but if I want to give a tip, then I will. That's what I understand a tip to be. A present given because I want to, not because I have been told autotips have been taken. And we are all getting into the same situation. You leave the tips on and then feel obliged to give an envelope because the others at your table are doing it. I do wish they would include grats in the price like Fred O seem to be doing.

[grapau27]

In answer to someone above, yes I know the wine waiter gets commission, but if I want to give a tip, then I will. That's what I understand a tip to be. A present given because I want to, not because I have been told autotips have been taken. And we are all getting into the same situation. You leave the tips on and then feel obliged to give an envelope because the others at your table are doing it. I do wish they would include grats in the price like Fred O seem to be doing.

You sound a very decent lady who makes a lot of sense.

[kalos]

Interesting comments. Just to take up

 

 

 

But it does not say in what proportion they are distributed to staff, it also does not say that it will be used as a weapon against staff by the cruise line. See my earlier comment. And as I said earlier also, more transparency about who really does get this is it only

"This helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler, who greatly appreciate your recognition of their hard work. "

And in what proportion and is money withheld? You might want to say that this all bound up in privacy, like our wages, but this is not cruise line money it is ours given for " good service" (P&O words), so we should know where it is going and the other matters I have related above.

 

I understand your concerns and do agree with you that you would think we would know is the money withheld ?

That's why I said Who really knows apart from P&O wages dep't ?

When you go out for a meal in the UK and tell the waitress keep the change or if paying by card you add a few quid to your bill as a thank you .Chances are you just walk away thinking that man or woman is now better off .

It is a sad fact of life that the laws of the UK protect what you fear could happen at sea .

 

Please see ...

Can my employer keep my tips of services charges?

 

 

Worse things can happen at sea as the saying goes (I hope not ) but I really doubt

you ever getting to know the answer ,as I said who knows .

 

 

 

[jeanlyon]

A little story to show you that taking off the tips does not affect service.

 

I was ashore in Gib near the end of the cruise and needed a wifi connection. We were just walking past a restaurant and I saw our waiter in there on his laptop. He saw me and came to say hello. I asked him if I could have the wifi password just for 2 minutes which he gave me. When I had sent my quick email, he then offered he a coffee and asked if I would like some food? I couldn't believe it. Why on earth would he offer this pesky passenger food and drink? So if he knew I had removed the tips, then it didn't make any difference. Just a lovely person. Obviously he got his tip in an envelope 2 days later.

[grapau27]

A little story to show you that taking off the tips does not affect service.

 

I was ashore in Gib near the end of the cruise and needed a wifi connection. We were just walking past a restaurant and I saw our waiter in there on his laptop. He saw me and came to say hello. I asked him if I could have the wifi password just for 2 minutes which he gave me. When I had sent my quick email, he then offered he a coffee and asked if I would like some food? I couldn't believe it. Why on earth would he offer this pesky passenger food and drink? So if he knew I had removed the tips, then it didn't make any difference. Just a lovely person. Obviously he got his tip in an envelope 2 days later.

He probably realised you were a friendly person.

[AnOnymously]

I understand your concerns and do agree with you that you would think we would know is the money withheld ?

That's why I said Who really knows apart from P&O wages dep't ?

When you go out for a meal in the UK and tell the waitress keep the change or if paying by card you add a few quid to your bill as a thank you .Chances are you just walk away thinking that man or woman is now better off .

It is a sad fact of life that the laws of the UK protect what you fear could happen at sea .

 

Please see ...

Can my employer keep my tips of services charges?

 

 

Worse things can happen at sea as the saying goes (I hope not ) but I really doubt

you ever getting to know the answer ,as I said who knows .

 

It is why I only ever give tips into the hands of waiters/waitresses, at least they know that I have appreciated what they have done for me.

 

Sadly auto-grats takes that away and takes away my ability t o say thank you. Also if P&O only share the tips amongst those named, I can do that just as well with some notes passed palm to palm.

 

If they were more transparent I am sure there would be less people at reception removing them. Even better incorporate them into the cost of the cruise and that way their staff would get much more as people would forget the auto-grats and just give a good tip for good service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wowzz]

It is why I only ever give tips into the hands of waiters/waitresses, at least they know that I have appreciated what they have done for me.

 

Sadly auto-grats takes that away and takes away my ability t o say thank you. Also if P&O only share the tips amongst those named, I can do that just as well with some notes passed palm to palm.

 

If they were more transparent I am sure there would be less people at reception removing them. Even better incorporate them into the cost of the cruise and that way their staff would get much more as people would forget the auto-grats and just give a good tip for good service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good to know that you felt happy with the servant/master relationship - how do you do that with the 25/30 waiters that will have served you during your cruise?

 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Forums mobile app

[AnOnymously]

Good to know that you felt happy with the servant/master relationship - how do you do that with the 25/30 waiters that will have served you during your cruise?

 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Forums mobile app

 

And auto-grats is not servant/master. Actually with their wages it is more slave/master. I hope you enjoy that on your cruise.

[dorsetlad]

Glad that's all been sorted then. Time to go back to sleep.

[Jan5174]

Hear hear Dorsetlad! Let’s allow veryone to do what suits them best !

[terrierjohn]

I do have to smile at some of the comments, servant master, or those that want only to reward those who have given them good service which means the auto tip pool for the other staff is reduced, or those who are outraged that the cruise lines might be keeping some of the auto tip for themselves, and those who strongly object to subsidising the wage bill.

And yet all these passengers declare they would be happy to have the auto grats included in the headline cruise fare, which would deny most the opportunity to feel smug/superior as they hand over their envelopes. And of course they would still be subsidising the wage bill.

[jeanlyon]

Good to know that you felt happy with the servant/master relationship - how do you do that with the 25/30 waiters that will have served you during your cruise?

 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Forums mobile app

 

What is this garbage about servant/master???? I tip a waiter in a restaurant, my hairdresser, a taxi if I take one. We only have the same waiters through the cruise at dinner as we dine Club. Most of those are the same ones in the buffet at lunchtime, so I tip the ones that serve me. Simple

[grapau27]

What is this garbage about servant/master???? I tip a waiter in a restaurant, my hairdresser, a taxi if I take one. We only have the same waiters through the cruise at dinner as we dine Club. Most of those are the same ones in the buffet at lunchtime, so I tip the ones that serve me. Simple

Sounds very reasonable to me even though i leave autogratuities on for my convenience.

[pisces14]

Glad that's all been sorted then. Time to go back to sleep.

Ha Ha if only.:rolleyes:

[grapau27]

A lot of things are said about tipping,crew wages etc but IMHO the autotipping seems to be the fairest way for crew and for the passengers.

[Josy1953]

A lot of things are said about tipping,crew wages etc but IMHO the autotipping seems to be the fairest way for crew and for the passengers.

As an autotipper I would agree with you but IMHO it is not fair as long as it is optional. The charge is not a tip, it is a service charge and either needs to be compulsory or included in the price of the cruise because no matter how we feel that the staff deserve the tips some people will never pay. P&O still have the lowest tips compared to other mainstream lines so it not a hardship to pay their tips

[grapau27]

As an autotipper I would agree with you but IMHO it is not fair as long as it is optional. The charge is not a tip, it is a service charge and either needs to be compulsory or included in the price of the cruise because no matter how we feel that the staff deserve the tips some people will never pay. P&O still have the lowest tips compared to other mainstream lines so it not a hardship to pay their tips

Absolutely agree 100%.

[pisces14]

As an autotipper I would agree with you but IMHO it is not fair as long as it is optional. The charge is not a tip, it is a service charge and either needs to be compulsory or included in the price of the cruise because no matter how we feel that the staff deserve the tips some people will never pay. P&O still have the lowest tips compared to other mainstream lines so it not a hardship to pay their tips

I also agree. Unfortunately we seem to be in the minority. Most people seem to find some reason to justify the removal of the auto tips. I'm afraid I think there is no justification. I'm totally fed up with the all the arguments about 'where the tips go', 'we are subsidising the wages P&O should be paying' , 'I prefer to tip people by envelope' or 'I like to tip only those who give good service'. The gratuities are part of cruising just leave the auto tips on and stop finding excuses to remove them.:rolleyes:

[grapau27]

I also agree. Unfortunately we seem to be in the minority. Most people seem to find some reason to justify the removal of the auto tips. I'm afraid I think there is no justification. I'm totally fed up with the all the arguments about 'where the tips go', 'we are subsidising the wages P&O should be paying' , 'I prefer to tip people by envelope' or 'I like to tip only those who give good service'. The gratuities are part of cruising just leave the auto tips on and stop finding excuses to remove them.:rolleyes:

Again 100% agreement from me.