Check your room cleanliness and press the issue

[Ashland]

Navigator 9656

 

 

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Thank you....Just curious...next trip on Navigator is July in #9636...my DS/DIL honeymoon cruise...I'll give him a heads up to check their cabin out carefully.

[Ashland]

That’s what I did after they reinstalled the dirty one; plunked it down in the GS desk

 

 

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Hope this finally got their attention as well as other's that saw what you were carrying....Good for you !!

[chengkp75]

While I don't condone the condition of the air filter, and I won't comment on cabin cleanliness, I'll point out a couple of things.

 

Cabin maintenance is not done strictly on turn-around day. Those air filters are, in my experience, changed every 3 months, and maintenance still could not do 1/4 of the cabins on virtually any size ship in the turn-around time, working around the cabin steward. These filters can and are changed during the cruise, maintenance will enter your cabin whenever you are not there (most commonly during port calls, when pax count is low). Shaking out the filter is not acceptable, and that filter did need renewing. While OP states he is unconvinced that other cabins are any cleaner than his, and I cannot say one way or another unless I was onboard and inspected the cabins, there is also no reason to think that the other cabins are not cleaner. The original failure to renew the filter in a timely fashion could be simply a recordkeeping failure, where a cabin is missed amongst the thousands, but not renewing it when identified is not acceptable.

 

As I've stated on many threads, the yellow to red/brown water that sometimes shows up in sinks is caused by chlorine and calcium carbonate scale in the pipes. These two chemicals, which are the only things added to ship's water, and are used to sanitize the water (chlorine) and control the pH (calcium carbonate, the active ingredient in Tums, to keep the water pH in the proper range for the chlorine to work properly) routinely form a scale on the inside of the piping system. As long as the system is filled with water, this scale stays in place. When the piping is drained for repair, this scale dries out and flakes off. Because the water in the ship's water mains are constantly circulating (unlike the underground pipes on land), this scale tends to circulate out quickly when the pipes are refilled and water service restored. However, the short pipe runs from the mains that run down the hallway, to each cabin's bathroom are static until you open the tap, so the scale tends to accumulate here. Running the water for a minute or two typically clears the water. There is nothing hazardous about this scale, as it is either chlorine carbonate or calcium carbonate.

 

As to the condensation pans in the air coolers, these are required to have sanitizing pads in them to prevent the growth of bacteria and viruses like legionella.

 

As for the question about changing the air filter when a cabin is deep cleaned for noro, noro is not an aerosol virus, it is contracted by ingestion, and the transmission vector is by touch on surfaces.

[Aquahound]

So to sum things up, you might get sick from breathing the air in the room, but the yellow water in the bathroom will treat your acid reflux. Yin and Yang! :D;)

[trapeze5]

Sanitizing pads in the fan coil unit's drain pan are very effective at controlling biological issues as long as they are replaced periodically like the air filter. The pads (or tablets) have a life span and it varies based on the manufacturer of the pad. Some are good for 30 days. I've yet to see one that is good past 90 days. If periodic maintenance is, in fact, being done and being done competently then there is little concern. The key word in the last sentence is "if." Legionella is a bacterium and is adequately controlled with a sanitizing pad. Viruses are most effectively controlled with UV light which you will not find in a fan coil unit.

[Sam Ting]

Now I’ve seen it all!

 

Why people think it’s ok to drink the water is beyond me. If they choose not to change an air filter anyone can see why would they think water filters were any different? Totally disgusted!

[The Scurvy Pirate]

If you found an air filter like that in your room, and they would not replace it with a new one, would it not simply be healthier at that point to simply remove it for the duration of your cruise? I would not think there would be that much circulating in your room, especially if you are like many who try to sanitize the room when they first get there.

[broberts]

While a few cabins will be missed in any given filter replacement cycle, it strikes me that the pictured filter suggest something more concerning. Either filter replacement was missed in multiple serial cycles and/or the period between replacement is much, much longer than one might consider healthy.

 

I suspect the problem is endemic with a root cause of cost savings. Fewer personnel resources to carry out the replacement schedule and extended periods of use to reduce filter acquisition and disposal costs.

[LMaxwell]

To OP- I find it very strange that RC cut the travel agent out of this situation, that is kind of unheard of. If it were me, I would have my agent fight for me. Depending on the agency, they have hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in RC bookings backing them up. I had an issue on another cruise line a couple of years ago (not as gross as yours-lol) I was getting no where. When my TA stepped in I got the refund I thought was fair and what I was asking for. You are not asking for a refund, you are stating I will continue to book with RC however something unacceptable happened and they need to fix it. It's customer service 101 to me. Good luck!

 

 

 

My travel agent just called me to find out how broil resolved it. She called Royal and they said call your client

 

 

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[trapeze5]

@The Scurvy Pirate: Removing the air filter means that the air coil itself will collect the airborne particulate matter instead. The coil (it's like a radiator in a car) is very difficult to clean and that's the biggest reason the air filter is there, not to protect people but to protect the coil. Once the coil is plugged with dirt the unit will not heat or cool at all because there will be no air movement. Not a good idea to simply take out the air filter and not replace it with a new one. This same advice is good for any forced air system like, for instance, the one that is in many of our own homes. Always have an air filter.

 

@broberts: As I mentioned earlier, it is probably difficult to impossible to do all of the room maintenance while the ship is in port between cruises. However, replacing an air filter is pretty easy and fast and should be done if the maintenance engineering management is competent. But that's just one item on a long list of things that should be maintained in each room. If the staff is performing a full maintenance list on each room they may only be able to do a dozen or maybe two dozen in that amount of time at port. A competent engineering manager will be working to do as many rooms as possible (done correctly and thoroughly) every week that the rooms are available.

 

Obviously, I am making assumptions on how RCI does this and their program may not be what I personally have experienced in the hospitality industry. My experience is that one maintenance engineer can thoroughly do quarterly maintenance on about 6-8 guest rooms in an eight hour shift. Any more rooms than that and the job isn't done right. I don't recall how many rooms can be deep cleaned by housekeeping staff per person per day.

[LMaxwell]

Thank you....Just curious...next trip on Navigator is July in #9636...my DS/DIL honeymoon cruise...I'll give him a heads up to check their cabin out carefully.

 

 

 

Only 10 rooms away. When he sees the cows on the wall he will know he’s almost home.

 

I wish I had posted all of the photos in the first and second post. Many people seem fixated on the dirty filter and are not seeing the other photos of the hair and filth and accumulated thick dust

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

If you found an air filter like that in your room, and they would not replace it with a new one, would it not simply be healthier at that point to simply remove it for the duration of your cruise? I would not think there would be that much circulating in your room, especially if you are like many who try to sanitize the room when they first get there.

 

 

 

It’s not my position to try to circumvent the equipment on the ship. What really disappointed me was that the guest services manager and hotel director had no interest in seeing anything with their own two eyes

 

 

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[trapeze5]

Now I’ve seen it all!

 

Why people think it’s ok to drink the water is beyond me. If they choose not to change an air filter anyone can see why would they think water filters were any different? Totally disgusted!

 

Here's something to gross you out a bit more: In most hotels (especially upscale hotels) the drinking glasses that are supplied to the room are never properly cleaned. It is the rare hotel that insists that guest room drinking glasses are exchanged with clean ones (glasses that have been run through a sanitizing dishwasher). Most hotels that have real glass drinking glasses in a guest room will have the housekeeper rinse them out in the guest room sink, swab them with a towel and then put a little cardboard cover over them to supposedly indicate that the glass is clean. It isn't.

 

Never use a glass drinking glass in a hotel room. Only use a plastic cup that is sealed inside a plastic bag (if that is what they supply). Unsealed drinking glasses in a hotel room are almost never sanitized.

[CallagDeb]

OP did you hopefully post these pics on RCI Facebook page....that might also get attention to this.

 

 

 

Maybe on the crown and anchor FB Page my DH has chronic breathing issues, last time of freedom he got pneumonia now I am seriously wondering about our filters.

Thanks for sharing you can be sure there is a lot of folks will be checking these in the future.

 

 

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[broberts]

@trapeze5,

 

Of course full maintenance cannot be done on turn around. As outlined in post #103, chengkp75, (fyi, someone with a working knowledge of operations aboard cruise ships), indicated that filter replacement is easily done at anytime a cabin is vacant. Nonetheless, with 1,500 - 2,000 cabins on a three month replacement plan it's still a daunting task.

 

But that really doesn't matter. A cruise line has chosen the business it is in. If it can't do a good job and keep its customers healthy perhaps it should be looking for a different line of business.

[LMaxwell]

@trapeze5,

 

Of course full maintenance cannot be done on turn around. As outlined in post #103, chengkp75, (fyi, someone with a working knowledge of operations aboard cruise ships), indicated that filter replacement is easily done at anytime a cabin is vacant. Nonetheless, with 1,500 - 2,000 cabins on a three month replacement plan it's still a daunting task.

 

But that really doesn't matter. A cruise line has chosen the business it is in. If it can't do a good job and keep its customers healthy perhaps it should be looking for a different line of business.

What about the nest of hair and dirt; what's the schedule for stuff like that? (That one I'm going to put on the room steward a bit; it's like he never vaccumed the perimeter of the room, just the middle of the floor, but again, their resources and time are set by management)

[cruzinlady1947]

I was just at the Drs today. I got back from cruise last Thursday and I got sick about 2 days before the cruise ended. I have bronchitis. Not sure how I got it. Some people were coughing on the cruise, especially a woman in the WJ who was at the salad bar coughing like crazy. She didn’t even turn her head, just put her hand up in front of her mouth. I was a couple people back from her. Funny thing was, that she butted in line to get the salad dressing. What’s wrong with people and what happened to common sense. I could have gotten sick from that. Maybe it was the air conditioning unit. Our cabin didn’t get as cool as they usually do. I had it on the lowest setting. I think the next time I will report it. Maybe it wasn’t cooling because of the filter.

 

Gwen [emoji3]

[Beachin2]

So to sum things up, you might get sick from breathing the air in the room, but the yellow water in the bathroom will treat your acid reflux. Yin and Yang! :D;)

The only thing amusing about this whole thread.

[broberts]

What about the nest of hair and dirt; what's the schedule for stuff like that? (That one I'm going to put on the room steward a bit; it's like he never vaccumed the perimeter of the room, just the middle of the floor, but again, their resources and time are set by management)

 

Agreed, the hair and dirt in the corners and around edges is due to rushed cleaning.

 

Again though, the issue is traceable to the constant push for cost reductions. More cabins per attendant means less time to clean each cabin. While a less well cleaned cabin isn't immediately noticeable, the dirt builds up as time goes by. Eventually it starts being noticed.

[txbirddog]

While I don't condone the condition of the air filter, and I won't comment on cabin cleanliness, I'll point out a couple of things.

 

 

 

Cabin maintenance is not done strictly on turn-around day. Those air filters are, in my experience, changed every 3 months, and maintenance still could not do 1/4 of the cabins on virtually any size ship in the turn-around time, working around the cabin steward. These filters can and are changed during the cruise, maintenance will enter your cabin whenever you are not there (most commonly during port calls, when pax count is low). Shaking out the filter is not acceptable, and that filter did need renewing. While OP states he is unconvinced that other cabins are any cleaner than his, and I cannot say one way or another unless I was onboard and inspected the cabins, there is also no reason to think that the other cabins are not cleaner. The original failure to renew the filter in a timely fashion could be simply a recordkeeping failure, where a cabin is missed amongst the thousands, but not renewing it when identified is not acceptable.

 

 

 

As I've stated on many threads, the yellow to red/brown water that sometimes shows up in sinks is caused by chlorine and calcium carbonate scale in the pipes. These two chemicals, which are the only things added to ship's water, and are used to sanitize the water (chlorine) and control the pH (calcium carbonate, the active ingredient in Tums, to keep the water pH in the proper range for the chlorine to work properly) routinely form a scale on the inside of the piping system. As long as the system is filled with water, this scale stays in place. When the piping is drained for repair, this scale dries out and flakes off. Because the water in the ship's water mains are constantly circulating (unlike the underground pipes on land), this scale tends to circulate out quickly when the pipes are refilled and water service restored. However, the short pipe runs from the mains that run down the hallway, to each cabin's bathroom are static until you open the tap, so the scale tends to accumulate here. Running the water for a minute or two typically clears the water. There is nothing hazardous about this scale, as it is either chlorine carbonate or calcium carbonate.

 

 

 

As to the condensation pans in the air coolers, these are required to have sanitizing pads in them to prevent the growth of bacteria and viruses like legionella.

 

 

 

As for the question about changing the air filter when a cabin is deep cleaned for noro, noro is not an aerosol virus, it is contracted by ingestion, and the transmission vector is by touch on surfaces.

 

 

 

Thank you for this information. You obviously are knowledgeable and as a former chief engineer on a ship, we appreciate your opinions.

 

 

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[gatour]

You do not realize how water is made on ship. It is either reverse osmosis or a distillation method. If a water filter fails there probably would be a failure in the system or you would be drinking seawater.

 

Now I’ve seen it all!

 

Why people think it’s ok to drink the water is beyond me. If they choose not to change an air filter anyone can see why would they think water filters were any different? Totally disgusted!

[SheehanDJ]

The reality of this situation is every room on every cruise ship this exact same thing will be found.

 

Further, the exact same thing will be found in your own home. Every home, I don't care how well you think you keep your house clean. The difference is in your house it is all your hair and dead skin.

 

Here is my problem with OP's demand for compensation. They are willing to accept 50% off a future cruise. A cruise in a cabin that they know they will find the exact same thing in.

 

If this disgusts you, because it is other peoples hair and dead skin don't cruise and don't stay in hotels. Any of them, no matter how expensive or supposedly well maintained. Sure the carpet and the base boards may be cleaner, but there ventilation system won't be. I'm not talking about any filters that may or may not exist in the room I'm talking about the duct work and coils, and heat exchangers in the HVAC system. The stuff that is just impacted with dead skin cells, hair and dust mites from all the previous occupants of any given hotel.

 

I don't think I'm making my point. Forget hotels and cruise ships, what about the office where you work? There is an HVAC system there too, there are door knobs, elevator buttons, key boards, phones, etc. How much dried spit, and food is in the phone you use every day at work? No one is singing washy washy songs by the restrooms, how much fecal matter is on the door knobs and elevator buttons?

 

Let's go further. There are standards set by the government of acceptable levels of contaminants in the food we all eat everyday. That means all food has some bits of bugs, or ****, or urine, or ground up rodent pieces in it. As long as it doesn't go over a specified amount it is considered safe for human consumption.

 

The stuff the human body sheds minute to minute is absolutely disgusting. If you leave your house you will be exposed to it.

 

The OP deserves no compensation by RCCL. The OP staying in that cabin added their own filth to it for the next person.

 

For those saying it should have been cleaned better, what about what can't be cleaned? Specifically the mattress. A mattress almost doubles in weight in 7 years. That weight is dead skin and dust mites. Should RCCL replace the mattress after every cruise? You can put a thousand sheets on the bed, it won't make a difference in the world. Lay down and you are engulfed in a cloud of microscopic leftovers from your previous fellow cruisers.

[yuvraj]

The reality of this situation is every room on every cruise ship this exact same thing will be found.

 

Further, the exact same thing will be found in your own home. Every home, I don't care how well you think you keep your house clean. The difference is in your house it is all your hair and dead skin.

 

Here is my problem with OP's demand for compensation. They are willing to accept 50% off a future cruise. A cruise in a cabin that they know they will find the exact same thing in.

 

If this disgusts you, because it is other peoples hair and dead skin don't cruise and don't stay in hotels. Any of them, no matter how expensive or supposedly well maintained. Sure the carpet and the base boards may be cleaner, but there ventilation system won't be. I'm not talking about any filters that may or may not exist in the room I'm talking about the duct work and coils, and heat exchangers in the HVAC system. The stuff that is just impacted with dead skin cells, hair and dust mites from all the previous occupants of any given hotel.

 

I don't think I'm making my point. Forget hotels and cruise ships, what about the office where you work? There is an HVAC system there too, there are door knobs, elevator buttons, key boards, phones, etc. How much dried spit, and food is in the phone you use every day at work? No one is singing washy washy songs by the restrooms, how much fecal matter is on the door knobs and elevator buttons?

 

Let's go further. There are standards set by the government of acceptable levels of contaminants in the food we all eat everyday. That means all food has some bits of bugs, or ****, or urine, or ground up rodent pieces in it. As long as it doesn't go over a specified amount it is considered safe for human consumption.

 

The stuff the human body sheds minute to minute is absolutely disgusting. If you leave your house you will be exposed to it.

 

The OP deserves no compensation by RCCL. The OP staying in that cabin added their own filth to it for the next person.

 

For those saying it should have been cleaned better, what about what can't be cleaned? Specifically the mattress. A mattress almost doubles in weight in 7 years. That weight is dead skin and dust mites. Should RCCL replace the mattress after every cruise? You can put a thousand sheets on the bed, it won't make a difference in the world. Lay down and you are engulfed in a cloud of microscopic leftovers from your previous fellow cruisers.

 

This thread and this post has really put me off travelling / cruising. I am not even a clean freak but given the perceived attention to cleaning on ships, the revelations on this thread are troubling. My local gym pays really close attention to cleaning. I have never seen the same attention to gym / sauna on a cruise ship and this thread goes some way to explain why.

 

BTW airlines have short turnaround times but they still make an effort to refresh the plane between flights. No reason why an army of ground crew can't do maintenance during turnaround window. If 500 filters are replaced on each turnaround then there wouldn't be a problem. However, I bet that doesn't happen. Raises the question, when exactly are filters replaced? When a guest complains?

[LMaxwell]

The reality of this situation is every room on every cruise ship this exact same thing will be found.

 

Further, the exact same thing will be found in your own home. Every home, I don't care how well you think you keep your house clean. The difference is in your house it is all your hair and dead skin.

 

Here is my problem with OP's demand for compensation. They are willing to accept 50% off a future cruise. A cruise in a cabin that they know they will find the exact same thing in.

 

If this disgusts you, because it is other peoples hair and dead skin don't cruise and don't stay in hotels. Any of them, no matter how expensive or supposedly well maintained. Sure the carpet and the base boards may be cleaner, but there ventilation system won't be. I'm not talking about any filters that may or may not exist in the room I'm talking about the duct work and coils, and heat exchangers in the HVAC system. The stuff that is just impacted with dead skin cells, hair and dust mites from all the previous occupants of any given hotel.

 

I don't think I'm making my point. Forget hotels and cruise ships, what about the office where you work? There is an HVAC system there too, there are door knobs, elevator buttons, key boards, phones, etc. How much dried spit, and food is in the phone you use every day at work? No one is singing washy washy songs by the restrooms, how much fecal matter is on the door knobs and elevator buttons?

 

Let's go further. There are standards set by the government of acceptable levels of contaminants in the food we all eat everyday. That means all food has some bits of bugs, or ****, or urine, or ground up rodent pieces in it. As long as it doesn't go over a specified amount it is considered safe for human consumption.

 

The stuff the human body sheds minute to minute is absolutely disgusting. If you leave your house you will be exposed to it.

 

The OP deserves no compensation by RCCL. The OP staying in that cabin added their own filth to it for the next person.

 

For those saying it should have been cleaned better, what about what can't be cleaned? Specifically the mattress. A mattress almost doubles in weight in 7 years. That weight is dead skin and dust mites. Should RCCL replace the mattress after every cruise? You can put a thousand sheets on the bed, it won't make a difference in the world. Lay down and you are engulfed in a cloud of microscopic leftovers from your previous fellow cruisers.

 

 

 

Gee that doesn’t sound like a company man or anything...

 

 

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[MacMarauder]

The reality of this situation is every room on every cruise ship this exact same thing will be found.

 

Further, the exact same thing will be found in your own home. Every home, I don't care how well you think you keep your house clean. The difference is in your house it is all your hair and dead skin.

 

Here is my problem with OP's demand for compensation. They are willing to accept 50% off a future cruise. A cruise in a cabin that they know they will find the exact same thing in.

 

If this disgusts you, because it is other peoples hair and dead skin don't cruise and don't stay in hotels. Any of them, no matter how expensive or supposedly well maintained. Sure the carpet and the base boards may be cleaner, but there ventilation system won't be. I'm not talking about any filters that may or may not exist in the room I'm talking about the duct work and coils, and heat exchangers in the HVAC system. The stuff that is just impacted with dead skin cells, hair and dust mites from all the previous occupants of any given hotel.

 

I don't think I'm making my point. Forget hotels and cruise ships, what about the office where you work? There is an HVAC system there too, there are door knobs, elevator buttons, key boards, phones, etc. How much dried spit, and food is in the phone you use every day at work? No one is singing washy washy songs by the restrooms, how much fecal matter is on the door knobs and elevator buttons?

 

Let's go further. There are standards set by the government of acceptable levels of contaminants in the food we all eat everyday. That means all food has some bits of bugs, or ****, or urine, or ground up rodent pieces in it. As long as it doesn't go over a specified amount it is considered safe for human consumption.

 

The stuff the human body sheds minute to minute is absolutely disgusting. If you leave your house you will be exposed to it.

 

The OP deserves no compensation by RCCL. The OP staying in that cabin added their own filth to it for the next person.

 

For those saying it should have been cleaned better, what about what can't be cleaned? Specifically the mattress. A mattress almost doubles in weight in 7 years. That weight is dead skin and dust mites. Should RCCL replace the mattress after every cruise? You can put a thousand sheets on the bed, it won't make a difference in the world. Lay down and you are engulfed in a cloud of microscopic leftovers from your previous fellow cruisers.

 

I actually think you make some interesting points, another good example is your car. A classic up-sell when you are having work done on your car is for the tech to pull the cabin filter and show it to the customer. The average cabin filter looks every bit as nasty as the filter shown in OP's pictures.