Viking in the Great Lakes

[chengkp75]

Well, a ship small enough for the Seaway locks will tend to be pricey, as the economies of scale are not there.  It does seem from a very rudimentary look at the brochure pages Jazzbeau posted that they are considering most land excursions to be by boat (tender?) at unimproved locations, much like they were planning for the Mississippi River.  Not sure how that would work out, not sure they know how bad the Lakes weather can get.

 

As for wintering on the Mississippi, the head of navigation for ocean going ships is just north of Baton Rouge, due to low fixed bridges.  Speaking of bridges, the Mackinac bridge is only 155' of clearance, so that may be why they aren't planning on Lakes Michigan and Superior.

 

Funny thing, they mention Lake Michigan as a "key itinerary feature", yet they stop at Mackinac.

 

Not sure they learned any lessons from their spanking for failure to research the Mississippi River cruises.

 

And, yeah, Jim, while the Coasties have worked hard to lengthen the Lakes sailing season (about 9 months now), there are still days where a ship spends an entire afternoon backing and filling to make one turn in the cleared lane.  Unless they are going to market to "polar bear cruisers", not much market for about half the year.  Even a brand new US Navy ship had to over-winter in Montreal because the locks froze up.

 

Not saying they shouldn't do it, or that it's a bad idea, but that they need to do a lot of research before jumping into a new market.

Edited October 30, 2018 by chengkp75

[Scooterboy515]

I find it interesting that everyone focuses on Cleveland and Detroit.  Both of these cities have a long establish cultural heritage and have many, many things to visit.  I for one would avoid Chicago, the murder capitol of the U.S.

 

I would love a Great Lakes Tour!

[Jim Avery]

13 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Pearl does Fall Foliage, then Cuba rt Ft. Lauderdale; Victory does Fall Foliage, then Cuba and Yucatan-intensive (both rt Miami).  Very different Caribbean itineraries than the big ships.  There are lots of small ports in the Carib that a Viking ship like the one described could do.

A small ship would be very welcome but then they refer to the present fleet as "small ships".  We sail SeaDream often in the Caribbean and love going to Jost van Dyke, Norman Island, etc. where all the big ships can't go. The SeaDream ships are getting old and soon there will be a real need for other small ships.  It is a completely different experience in the Caribbean if you avoid the main ports.

[Homosassa]

While many of us in the USA may have no interest in cruising the Great Lakes, there may be cruisers from other parts of the world who would find the Great Lakes region to be another geographical feature to visit similar to many of us wanting to visit the European Alps or cruising the Nile.

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 hours ago, Scooterboy515 said:

I find it interesting that everyone focuses on Cleveland and Detroit.  Both of these cities have a long establish cultural heritage and have many, many things to visit.  I for one would avoid Chicago, the murder capitol of the U.S.

 

I would love a Great Lakes Tour!

It's about air flights – Chicago has much better service than Detroit as a cruise start/end port.

[Jack E Dawson]

Scooterboy515,

As bad as the murder rate is in Chicago, it's not even in the top 10 of U.S. cities. 

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/01/chicago-not-most-dangerous-city-america/

Let me start off by saying that I live in Chicago, so I may be a bit biased. 

It is my experience that U.S. cities are a lot more dangerous than European cities. However, the good news is that for visitors and tourists, Chicago is actually a very safe city. The fact is that +95% of the murders in the Chicago area are gang on gang killings and take place primarily in two small areas that are not near the downtown "Loop" area of the city. Of course this is still a tragedy. 

Chicago has a lot to offer. It has amazing architecture with more that a dozen Frank Lloyd Wright Homes, French renaissance office buildings and modern sky-scrapers. The Architectural Boat Tour down the Chicago River in the Summer is a must. Michigan Ave.'s Magnificent Mile is the hight of upscale shopping. Grant Park in downtown Chicago hosts cultural festivals the entire Summer. And of course, Deep Dish Pizza. Chicago is one of the last U.S. cities that style operates as cities were designed to. In fact, more people and families live in downtown Chicago and commute to the suburbs than live in the suburbs and commute to the city!

[Scooterboy515]

5 hours ago, Jack E Dawson said:

Scooterboy515,

As bad as the murder rate is in Chicago, it's not even in the top 10 of U.S. cities. 

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/01/chicago-not-most-dangerous-city-america/

Let me start off by saying that I live in Chicago, so I may be a bit biased. 

It is my experience that U.S. cities are a lot more dangerous than European cities. However, the good news is that for visitors and tourists, Chicago is actually a very safe city. The fact is that +95% of the murders in the Chicago area are gang on gang killings and take place primarily in two small areas that are not near the downtown "Loop" area of the city. Of course this is still a tragedy. 

Chicago has a lot to offer. It has amazing architecture with more that a dozen Frank Lloyd Wright Homes, French renaissance office buildings and modern sky-scrapers. The Architectural Boat Tour down the Chicago River in the Summer is a must. Michigan Ave.'s Magnificent Mile is the hight of upscale shopping. Grant Park in downtown Chicago hosts cultural festivals the entire Summer. And of course, Deep Dish Pizza. Chicago is one of the last U.S. cities that style operates as cities were designed to. In fact, more people and families live in downtown Chicago and commute to the suburbs than live in the suburbs and commute to the city!

I should apologize as I am from the Cleveland area and am tired of people that have never been here ripping on us.  Cleveland like Chicago is loaded with great attractions.  We have the largest preforming arts center outside of NYC.  We have the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the world renowned Cleveland Orchestra.We have the Indians, Cavs and Browns (OK forget the last two).  We are surrounded by the Cleveland Metro Parks (out emerald necklass) and sit just outside Cuyahoga National Park.  There is so much more that we have to offer.

 

Detroit is much the same. All we hear is the bad but there is so much to like about the city.

 

 

[Jack E Dawson]

and you have The Winking Lizard, my favorite place to eat wings!

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Scooterboy515 said:

.We have the Indians, Cavs and Browns (OK forget the last two).  ???

 

Taking a guess - sports teams???

[Scooterboy515]

One is the other two are just losers!  

[Scooterboy515]

19 hours ago, Jack E Dawson said:

and you have The Winking Lizard, my favorite place to eat wings!

We have several of them!  

[azdrydock]

Back on topic

A few months ago I received a survey from Viking River that asked you to rank various North America itineraries. such as St Laurence seaway, Great lakes, Puget Sound and I think segments of the Intercoastal Waterway. There might have been others. 

 

 

 Also saw the following recently;

 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2018/09/26/viking-river-cruises-mississippi-river-tourism-dubuque-davenport-burlington-quad-cities-boat-cruise/1349269002/

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

5 minutes ago, azdrydock said:

Back on topic

A few months ago I received a survey from Viking River that asked you to rank various North America itineraries. such as St Laurence seaway, Great lakes, Puget Sound and I think segments of the Intercoastal Waterway. There might have been others. 

 

 

 Also saw the following recently;

 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/business/2018/09/26/viking-river-cruises-mississippi-river-tourism-dubuque-davenport-burlington-quad-cities-boat-cruise/1349269002/

 

 

I wonder if Viking thinks that if that can get these town to spend millions on docking infrastructure, that will force the Feds to waive the PSVA and let them bring in longships from Europe.  Strong-arming the government didn't work in Paris, and I doubt it will work here.

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I wonder if Viking thinks that if that can get these town to spend millions on docking infrastructure, that will force the Feds to waive the PSVA and let them bring in longships from Europe.  Strong-arming the government didn't work in Paris, and I doubt it will work here.

Yeah, American Cruises and American Queen lines will have something to say about this, since there is an established US flag provider of cruises on the river, so there is no justification for a waiver.

[Scooterboy515]

I thought I read somewhere that they were going to lease the boats from a US company.

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, Scooterboy515 said:

I thought I read somewhere that they were going to lease the boats from a US company.

If you're talking about the Mississippi River cruises, not sure how that will change Viking's business model.  There are no existing vessels to charter (lease), so these new vessels would need to be built in the US, which is what Viking is balking at.  And the charter contract would be designed to cover the expense of construction of these vessels at US prices, so Viking would be paying for the ship anyway, in reality.  The only difference this arrangement would make, is that Viking would not have to form a US subsidiary to own the vessels.

Edited November 2, 2018 by chengkp75

[Dauntless]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If you're talking about the Mississippi River cruises, not sure how that will change Viking's business model.  There are no existing vessels to charter (lease), so these new vessels would need to be built in the US, which is what Viking is balking at.  And the charter contract would be designed to cover the expense of construction of these vessels at US prices, so Viking would be paying for the ship anyway, in reality.  The only difference this arrangement would make, is that Viking would not have to form a US subsidiary to own the vessels.

According to what I read, that is exactly what Viking is doing.  Shipyard in Florida is building and Viking will lease the ships from them.

[MrsMarshaP]

On 10/28/2018 at 1:40 PM, Jim Avery said:

I was sent a survey from Viking which dealt exclusively with cruises on the Great Lakes.  Also had renderings and info on a new class of ships, Viking Great Lakes ships.  I personally have no interest in the region but others will.  Who else got this survey/info?

 Great Lakes Cruising is expensive.  And having a great ship like Viking would be awesome.  Most of the current ships get bad reviews. How can I get a survey 

[philw1776]

Couldn't these new river ships proposed (look like mini-Viking Ocean ships) just go to the Caribbean for the winter?

I'd consider a ship configured like that for Vancouver BC and Alaska cruises.  Better than the larger VO ships.  Inlets.

[I like vacation]

On 10/28/2018 at 4:19 PM, Jim Avery said:

Haha, I put in 2,000 too.  Must have offended them as I told them $10,500 for a cruise that included Detroit and Cleveland was way too much.   The only interesting part was the renderings and info on the new class of ships for the Great Lakes.  I really hope Viking spends that money elsewhere.  

 

I received the survey as well.  Don't know why we received it except that we are taking our first Viking River Cruise in April 2019 and must be on a "list".  I also commented that the proposed price was too expensive for the itinerary.  I think I put $2250 pp.  

[Jim Avery]

8 hours ago, I like vacation said:

 

I received the survey as well.  Don't know why we received it except that we are taking our first Viking River Cruise in April 2019 and must be on a "list".  I also commented that the proposed price was too expensive for the itinerary.  I think I put $2250 pp.  

Not sure why we got it.  Never taken a river cruise and have none booked.  Must be a random thing.

[K9pal]

I got the survey also, and it seems we are all in agreement that $10K for 2 weeks is exorbitant!  My two main issues that I mentioned on the survey were that 2 weeks is too long, and $10K is too much.

[Scooterboy515]

1 hour ago, K9pal said:

I got the survey also, and it seems we are all in agreement that $10K for 2 weeks is exorbitant!  My two main issues that I mentioned on the survey were that 2 weeks is too long, and $10K is too much.

I would be that the sailings will be pushed in Asia and Europe and not so much in the USA.

[Dauntless]

Apparently, I'm not on the list for the survey but are they saying that is the price so they can do the 2 for 1 pricing?

[BJR52001]

On 11/19/2018 at 11:38 AM, philw1776 said:

Couldn't these new river ships proposed (look like mini-Viking Ocean ships) just go to the Caribbean for the winter?

I'd consider a ship configured like that for Vancouver BC and Alaska cruises.  Better than the larger VO ships.  Inlets.

 

The small ocean vessels pictured, the absolutely could.  That's exactly what Pearl Seas and Victory do.

 

Truth be told, Great Lakes cruising is in a grey area between costal and ocean nobody has quite figured out yet.  AQSC's and Pearl Seas boats are under 200 passengers and Yacht style., on the other hand the 25.000 ton 900 pax MS Braemar from Fred Olsen Cruises is the largest vessel afloat that can transit the entire Seaway/ Lakes system.  Viking's concept seems to be splitting the difference here.