Wondering why NCL can advertise the drink package as "Free" when it's not

[schildiams]

Not angry at all. Just a happy consumer advocate! And from what I’m hearing, another poster has also filed a complaint, and anouter has encouraged more to do so. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Especially since another poster has stated that ncl has already had to settle an different marketing suit that I was unaware of. I’m eager to read about that one, too!

[schildiams]

On 10/30/2018 at 11:19 AM, billco said:

We recently returned from a 16 day transatlantic on the NCL Jade. As part of our booking with a travel agent the ultimate beverage was included along with all gratuities including the gratuity for the UBP and the DSC. We also had $400 in refundable credit. I suggest if the fine print is a problem, then go with a good TA who works for you.

Please share this amazing TA - sounds like an amazing deal!

[schildiams]

12 hours ago, fshagan said:

 

They have already settled a case with the FTC for one of their subcontractors (a telemarketer). I am sure they don't want to go through that again.

Do you happen to have a link to any info about that case? i'd be interested to read it.

[billco]

2 hours ago, schildiams said:

Please share this amazing TA - sounds like an amazing deal!

Can't share TAs on this forum. We have pretty much the same deal on our upcoming cruise on the Encore next year. I imagine most TAs are able to offer the same deal and there are probably others on here who know more about the details of group bookings. It showed up in my booking on the NCL website as:

Pre-Paid Service Charges for Affinity Groups Mini-Suites and below

Ultimate Beverage Package for Groups

 

and on my TAs invoice as:

 

FREE GRATUITIES/BEVERAGE PACKAGE

$400 OBC OFFERED FROM US

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by billco

[StolidCruiser]

4 hours ago, schildiams said:

Do you happen to have a link to any info about that case? i'd be interested to read it.

 

It's easy to find and the claim/suit wasn't made solely against NCL.

 

Hopefully your claim/suit will be similarly discoverable when it hits the court's docket.

[schildiams]

6 minutes ago, StolidCruiser said:

 

It's easy to find and the claim/suit wasn't made solely against NCL.

 

Hopefully your claim/suit will be similarly discoverable when it hits the court's docket.

Found it 🙂 And I was annoyed b/c the date to add my name had passed and I know that I got more than one of those calls over the years!

[schildiams]

2 hours ago, billco said:

Can't share TAs on this forum. We have pretty much the same deal on our upcoming cruise on the Encore next year. I imagine most TAs are able to offer the same deal and there are probably others on here who know more about the details of group bookings. It showed up in my booking on the NCL website as:

Pre-Paid Service Charges for Affinity Groups Mini-Suites and below

Ultimate Beverage Package for Groups

 

and on my TAs invoice as:

 

FREE GRATUITIES/BEVERAGE PACKAGE

$400 OBC OFFERED FROM US

 

 

 

Is there a way to Private Message? If so, I'd appreciate the info 🙂

[fshagan]

12 hours ago, schildiams said:

Not angry at all. Just a happy consumer advocate! And from what I’m hearing, another poster has also filed a complaint, and anouter has encouraged more to do so. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Especially since another poster has stated that ncl has already had to settle an different marketing suit that I was unaware of. I’m eager to read about that one, too!

 

NCL sent me a survey a month or so ago, and it was concerned solely with how to communicate offers on their website. They gave examples of screenshots and options for wording the offers so that they conveyed what the offer was. They included options for how to describe the perks, what to call discounted rates that didn't include room choice and the perks (what they currently call "Sail Away" or "Guarantee" cabins), and how to display the disclaimers. 

 

So while I think their current presentation is sneaky, I have noticed more transparency and improved customer service since O'Sheehan left. I hope its a trend, one as aggressive as their rate and fee increases.

 

They have reconsidered the "Free Style" description already because Andy Stuart said he felt it didn't accurately reflect what was being offered. They have experimented with changes to the drinking plan name, calling it "open bar" on inclusive cruises (another experiment) and I think that better reflects what it is since it doesn't include specialty coffee, bottled water and other drinks other cruise lines offer. Few people will think Red Bull should be free when they have "open bar" but they will think that when they have a "Beverage Plan".

 

 

 

[mianmike]

1 hour ago, fshagan said:

So while I think their current presentation is sneaky, I have noticed more transparency and improved customer service since O'Sheehan left. I hope its a trend, one as aggressive as their rate and fee increases.

 

 

Interesting.  I have the opposite impression.  I feel like since Del Rio has taken over, there is much more smoke and mirrors and fine print.  But that is just my perception.  I'm curious to hear why you feel O'Sheehan was more deceptive or at least not transparent.    

[GUT2407]

9 hours ago, schildiams said:

Is there a way to Private Message? If so, I'd appreciate the info 🙂

No pm on Cruise Critic.

 

i guess one reason is to avoid recommending TAs to people.

[GUT2407]

32 minutes ago, NurseJEB said:

It is silly frivolous cases like this that drive up the cost of everything.  Anyone who brings such a case and (of course) ends up losing, should have to pay 100% of the legal fees of the other party and a fine of equal amount.  Failure to read a contract is NOT false advertising.

But at least the lawyers win.

 

love a story with a happy ending

[mianmike]

20 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

I just really don't think seeing the fine print is all that difficult to do.  It just isn't some sort of deceptive trick. 

 

You're right it's not hard to read fine print (as long as I have my readers on).  

 

I do think there is a level of deception.  If NCL didn't want to deceive, they'd be upfront with costs and wouldn't bury the actual cost in the fine print.  I can somewhat quantify the level of deception (or lack of due diligence) by the percentage of people on Cruise Critic and other social media platforms who constantly refer to receiving "free drinks."   As we know the drinks aren't free.  To obtain their "Free Drinks" they pay more for their cabin plus a ridiculous service charge which on average for me equates to a "tip" (I imagine a portion goes to help finance FDR's yacht) of approximately $7-$10 a drink!   So I know the drinks are far from free.  If I buy the "Free Drinks" I know I'm not saving money, I'm buying the peace of mind of not having to worry how much a drink costs.  

[newmexicoNita]

On 10/30/2018 at 9:19 PM, yearsofcruising said:

AND to add insult to injury , so if you begin your drinking while still docked before leaving your port , you pay tax !!! check your bill.....

oh for heaven sake: big deal: the tax is almost nothing and how many drinks are you going to have before you actually leave, maybe a couple? 

[beerman2]

3 hours ago, NurseJEB said:

It is silly frivolous cases like this that drive up the cost of everything.  Anyone who brings such a case and (of course) ends up losing, should have to pay 100% of the legal fees of the other party and a fine of equal amount.  Failure to read a contract is NOT false advertising.

Exactly, I've been saying this for years. The winners in most cases are the lawyers. I don't read all the fine print either, but I know/see what my final price is before purchasing.

 

it's really not that difficult, but as shown some just prefer to rock the boat. It's been quite humorous reading the OP defending their position though. 

 

As far as the FTC goes , I'm sure NCL has very, very good lawyers and they have fought claims before. And yes NCL has tweaked terminology on "Drinks Package" due to some technicality's/ or as some would say unethical language/promotion.

 

 

[beerman2]

10 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

oh for heaven sake: big deal: the tax is almost nothing and how many drinks are you going to have before you actually leave, maybe a couple? 

Well some might 🤣🤣 , our taxes were like 14.00 or so. However we were delayed leaving port for 3-4 hours and we boarded about 11:30.

 

[newmexicoNita]

16 hours ago, billco said:

Can't share TAs on this forum. We have pretty much the same deal on our upcoming cruise on the Encore next year. I imagine most TAs are able to offer the same deal and there are probably others on here who know more about the details of group bookings. It showed up in my booking on the NCL website as:

Pre-Paid Service Charges for Affinity Groups Mini-Suites and below

Ultimate Beverage Package for Groups

 

and on my TAs invoice as:

 

FREE GRATUITIES/BEVERAGE PACKAGE

$400 OBC OFFERED FROM US

 

 

 

Everyone needs to realize when these Travel Agents offer these deals and yes they do, often. They don't always. Every time a company takes out a group plan can be different. We too, have had our agent book us in a group booking with all gratuities covered. This last booking, which is coming up in about 3 months all that is covered is a small OBC. So don't think it is always almost all inclusive. 

[4774Papa]

On 10/29/2018 at 10:05 AM, NLH Arizona said:

The drink package is free, otherwise you would be paying $99 a day.  They are charging for the gratuities/service charge and there is nowhere in any of their ads/website that says that it is also free.  NCL has been doing this for years, so I would venture to guess if there was anything illegal about it, they would have been taken to court by now, but if you would like to file a suit against them for this, please let us all know how it turns out, as I'm sure everyone would be interested.

$99 a day is ridiculous.  It simply forces up the cost of the gratuities.   We never take the bloated beverage package, since we what to keep our livers healthy.   On our last cruise, on the Dawn, I brought wine onboard, paid the $15 corkage fees per bottle and had better wine than what is available on the beverage package.   We spent less on alcohol, considering the cost of the wine and corkage fees than just the cost of the gratuities.

[newmexicoNita]

56 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Well some might 🤣🤣 , our taxes were like 14.00 or so. However we were delayed leaving port for 3-4 hours and we boarded about 11:30.

 

ok, there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the time this does not happen and with the taxes rarely over about $1.00 it isn't worth worrying about. The cruise lines really have no control over the taxes. Yes, for years they were often overlooked and just paid for by the cruise line I guess, but I understand us being held responsible for paying them. And as I said, it isn't that much, every $14 when you figure the cost of cruising. 

[beerman2]

3 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

ok, there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the time this does not happen and with the taxes rarely over about $1.00 it isn't worth worrying about. The cruise lines really have no control over the taxes. Yes, for years they were often overlooked and just paid for by the cruise line I guess, but I understand us being held responsible for paying them. And as I said, it isn't that much, every $14 when you figure the cost of cruising. 

You didn't see the smiley faces , it was a joke. The point being it isn't that big of a deal.

[newmexicoNita]

11 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

$99 a day is ridiculous.  It simply forces up the cost of the gratuities.   We never take the bloated beverage package, since we what to keep our livers healthy.   On our last cruise, on the Dawn, I brought wine onboard, paid the $15 corkage fees per bottle and had better wine than what is available on the beverage package.   We spent less on alcohol, considering the cost of the wine and corkage fees than just the cost of the gratuities.

we also have never purchased the drink package. We do love our drinks but we don't over due it on cruises. When it is included as a perk, I do not mind the service charge one bit and yes, we do love the idea of having it all paid up front plus we love to try a variety of drinks: something we would never do if we were paying per drink. As for bringing on wine, there was a time we did the same thing, or we would buy the wine package. Plus we would often get a bottle sent to us from our ta and maybe someone else. That way, we only actually purchased a few drinks from the bar the entire cruise. I will add though, you mention the corkage fee and better wine: you also have to add to that, the cost of the wine. So $15 service charge comes out to $3 a glass, I am assuming you are also buying qualaty wine at $10 or more $$ a bottle. Now the price is starting to go up. Maybe NCL doesn't offer the best wine on the drink packages but it isn't the cheapest in the world either. Some choices we recognize and they sell for $15 or so in the local stores here. It is like going to your local bar or a restaurant and having a glass or so: you know it is marked up about double. 

[newmexicoNita]

3 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

You didn't see the smiley faces , it was a joke. The point being it isn't that big of a deal.

ok, missed it: bad me!!!!!! 

[4774Papa]

7 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

we also have never purchased the drink package. We do love our drinks but we don't over due it on cruises. When it is included as a perk, I do not mind the service charge one bit and yes, we do love the idea of having it all paid up front plus we love to try a variety of drinks: something we would never do if we were paying per drink. As for bringing on wine, there was a time we did the same thing, or we would buy the wine package. Plus we would often get a bottle sent to us from our ta and maybe someone else. That way, we only actually purchased a few drinks from the bar the entire cruise. I will add though, you mention the corkage fee and better wine: you also have to add to that, the cost of the wine. So $15 service charge comes out to $3 a glass, I am assuming you are also buying qualaty wine at $10 or more $$ a bottle. Now the price is starting to go up. Maybe NCL doesn't offer the best wine on the drink packages but it isn't the cheapest in the world either. Some choices we recognize and they sell for $15 or so in the local stores here. It is like going to your local bar or a restaurant and having a glass or so: you know it is marked up about double. 

We cruise Celebrity as well as NCL and Celebrity doesn't charge a gratuity for the beverage package as long as the package is a promo and part of your Go Better or Go Best deal.   Prior to the price bundling by NCL, we usually purchased a 10 bottle wine package for a 14 day cruise.  You could purchase one for about $300, no gratuities.   You can't do that anymore.

 

What amazes me is that many posters on CC say they love the beverage packages so they don't have to worry about the bill later.  I have always kept track of how much Dear Wife and I spend on alcohol on a cruise and the most we ever spent for a 14 day cruise total was a little less than $500.   All you have to do to determine if a beverage package is economical is check you bill and add up your drinks cost at the end.  For moderate drinkers, the NCL beverage package is a very bad deal.

[beerman2]

14 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

We cruise Celebrity as well as NCL and Celebrity doesn't charge a gratuity for the beverage package as long as the package is a promo and part of your Go Better or Go Best deal.   Prior to the price bundling by NCL, we usually purchased a 10 bottle wine package for a 14 day cruise.  You could purchase one for about $300, no gratuities.   You can't do that anymore.

 

What amazes me is that many posters on CC say they love the beverage packages so they don't have to worry about the bill later.  I have always kept track of how much Dear Wife and I spend on alcohol on a cruise and the most we ever spent for a 14 day cruise total was a little less than $500.   All you have to do to determine if a beverage package is economical is check you bill and add up your drinks cost at the end.  For moderate drinkers, the NCL beverage package is a very bad deal.

The costs of everything is built in somewhere, no matter what cruise line. I'm guessing  ( no I'm not positive) but Celebrity is more expensive than NCL when comparing apples to apples. 

 

So the gratuity is added in/ being paid for by pax.

 

Most definitely it depends on one's drinking habits to see / get the value of packages. I'm pretty sure many pax drink more when on vacation/cruises than everyday life. Just as there are those that have a 2-3 beers a day at home or that Martini/couple glasses of wine daily.

 

BTW , I love my daily Dirty Martini and have yet to be on a cruise where I didn't get the value of a drink package.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by beerman2

[fshagan]

7 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

Interesting.  I have the opposite impression.  I feel like since Del Rio has taken over, there is much more smoke and mirrors and fine print.  But that is just my perception.  I'm curious to hear why you feel O'Sheehan was more deceptive or at least not transparent.    

 

"Transparency" doesn't mean you will like what you see. A prime example is the very public announcement that drink prices would go up because no one sitting at the side of the pool in the middle of the Atlantic is going to object to paying .20 more for a soda. Or that the company was intending to increase revenue by $5 per passenger over the next 12 months. Everyone here went nuts with that information, but it was an example of transparency. 

 

O'Sheehan was focused on the same thing, but had less transparency on price increases. But his drive to make NCL profitable and turn it around saw similar increases.

 

Our last two NCL cruises have been better than before, even though they have been more expensive. Is it worth it? We think so, and will continue to sail them even though they have "taken away" some things we liked. I think it's a better product now than it was when we first started sailing them, and for us, a much better experience than Princess and Celebrity. 

[Gampy1967]

On 10/29/2018 at 8:57 AM, schildiams said:

I see that NCL is currently advertising "Free Unlimited Open Bar" on it's landing page. There is no mention anywhere, even when you click "learn more" of any charges on this "free" benefit. It is only when you get through booking and see the final fare, does NCL assess a service charge on the "free" benefit. I know that this topic has been beaten to death, but I am still left to wonder how this is to considered to be misleading or false advertising? How can a benefit be considered "free" if it actually costs $300 per room? And if an open bar is truly "free" then a 20% fee on zero is zero. I get that NCL wants to make money on this, and I'm not opposed to paying a service charge. But, my point is, if it costs $300 per cabin, it should be advertised as such and not as "free." Anyone think that if this practice were legally challenged that the working would change?

 

They can advertise it this way because the drink package is free.  The service charge/tips on said package are not free.  Just like a free meal at a restaurant.  You don't pay for the meal but you are still expected to tip on the value of said meal.