Wondering why NCL can advertise the drink package as "Free" when it's not

[Georgie562]

3 hours ago, cathi007 said:

First of all before you sign any contract you should always read the fine print, it's common sense. The package is free, as usually it costs 99.00 per day. You are paying the gratuities. If you don't like it, don't order it, simple as that. Why would anyone complain about the plan??? Do you have any idea how much drinks are on a ship. Maybe you should just stay home from now on, but I guess you won't have anything to complain about. I will enjoy my FREE drink package on my cruise.... Oh mine is FREE, as my tips were paid for as a perk, lol

 

Sadly it just goes up every year so that NCL can pocket more. I remember when the UBP had a retail value of $59.99 per day.

[schildiams]

16 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Well...aside from the obvious fact that you simply can't just put a link to each and every thing right there on the home page, again where does a person have responsibility to understand and know what they are buying?

 

If you have anything other than a 100% grasp of the details of the purchase, you'd have to be a fool not to be working with a PCC or TA...paid and educated travel professionals who already know all of the details that you try to claim are actually deceptions.

 

Based on the quality of the complaint, it appears that CC might not be the proper venue for this issue. The OP obviously isn't arguing this case with the cruise line, the OP obviously isn't arguing this case with the FTC...perhaps the OP would be better served by taking the issue to Consumer Affairs. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/ncl_cruise.htm

A complaint has already been filed with the FTC. My original question was asking if anyone thought that a legal challenge would actually change the way NCL words their advertisements. I have read another case filed against three computer stores who advertised "free" computers where the associated fees where not clear but rather listed in fine print. The decision in that case seems to suggest that NCL would be required to change their ways. But you never know how a ruling will turn out until it is decided.

[Two Wheels Only]

13 minutes ago, schildiams said:

How about a simple yes or no answer?

Would it make it more clear if NCL put a link to the terms and conditions/the cost of the fees right on the home page under the word "free"?

Yes or No? 

 

I'll compromise....

 

NCL should make the text that explains the asterisk a link to the terms & conditions....most people still wouldn't read it. 

 

As for your question, I would say "No, it would not make it more clear." The reason for my answer is based on the number of questions that are posted on this forum that could easily be answered by....clicking on the link to the terms and conditions that IS on the same NCL page. 

 

Look at the "Free at Sea Offer" page. Right on the page is a link to the terms and conditions. Does that link eliminate the questions about the SDP promo? No. Does it eliminate the questions about the shore excursion credit promo? No. Why? Because too many people don't click on the link and read it.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Two Wheels Only

[schildiams]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

You keep pointing this out; I wonder why you don't file a claim with the FTC, because no one on this site can do anything about it.

I keep pointing it out because people keep replying with posts that don't seem to understand the issue. Lots of confusion with people thinking the issue is with the drink package cost or the cost of the fees or the cost of drinks if you buy them separately or that fact they think that I am a complainer or that I should just stop sailing NCL. And no, this site can't do anything about it. But, if you actually read my OP, you will see that I asked a question - wondering if anyone on this board thought that the wording on the NCL would change if someone did file a complaint. It was sort of a survey, to gather some opinions on whether or not anyone thought that a complaint would actually force NCL to advertise in a more clear/conspicuous manner. Ironically, not one person who complained forcefully that people should read better, seems to have actually read that part b/c not one reply addresses the question. But don't worry, we will soon find out the answer. At least I will. My friend with similar concerns recently filed a complaint - which is what made me think to ask the question in the first place. I'm not really sure if it will make a difference or not. But I hope that it does. 

[schildiams]

 A compromise? I'll take it! I think a clickable asterisk that links to the T & C is  great idea. If it were at the top of the page (where a person with my eyesight could find it) that would be PERFECT! 🙂

[rtkenmore]

Still beating the dead horse I see.

[StolidCruiser]

2 hours ago, schildiams said:

A complaint has already been filed with the FTC..

 

I,for one, anxiously await the outcome of that filing.

 

Please let us know how it works out... even though I already know.

[erdoran]

22 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

One...you can get it with a guaranteed room. I am sailing on the Bliss in 3 weeks and I received two (2) Free @ Sea offers with my booking....on a guarantee room. You cannot get the Free @ Sea Offer with the Sail Away rate....which is prominently displayed on the website. Remember, all Sail Away cabins are guarantees, but not all guarantees are Sail Away. Don't confuse the two.

 

Two...The reason some people go out of their way to, as you label it, "be NCL apologists" is the same reason that some people go out of their way to be NCL haters and complainers. Plus many of them are tired of seeing the cruise line take the blame for something when the real cause is people who are too lazy to bother to understand just what they are talking about. People aren't here to apologize for the cruise line, and they aren't here to coddle and become support groups for those with failures in understanding and/or self-made expectations.

 

Three...This thread stands as an example of just how people don't bother to read and understand what they are buying. Which is particularly troubling when they are booking themselves. Why would someone do their own booking when they don't have full and complete knowledge of what it is they are getting for their money. This is especially ridiculous when PCC and Travel Agents...who are educated in the process...are available TO ASSIST YOU FOR FREE. Self-booking should only be done by those who a) have a complete and total understanding of what they are booking, and b) are willing and able to accept personal responsibility for their failures under part a).

I’m underwhelmed by their assistance.  cruise 1 my TA told me that butler and concierge tips in Haven are covered by Haven DSC.  NCL told me same thing.  OH - and that’s after I asked TA about the DSC, which he had “forgotten” to mention during booking.

 

Cruise 2 I asked about Jade Haven restaurant/bar (there is none).  I was assured by NCL PCC that there is indeed a bar in the Haven, it doesn’t show up on the deck plan but it IS there, all havens have a private bar.

[SeaShark]

14 minutes ago, erdoran said:

I’m underwhelmed by their assistance.  cruise 1 my TA told me that butler and concierge tips in Haven are covered by Haven DSC.  NCL told me same thing.  OH - and that’s after I asked TA about the DSC, which he had “forgotten” to mention during booking.

 

Cruise 2 I asked about Jade Haven restaurant/bar (there is none).  I was assured by NCL PCC that there is indeed a bar in the Haven, it doesn’t show up on the deck plan but it IS there, all havens have a private bar.

 

Two cruises? If it were me, the TA would have been replaced by someone more competent. If you aren't dealing with a quality service provider, you only have yourself to blame.

[erdoran]

 

1 minute ago, SeaShark said:

 

Two cruises? If it were me, the TA would have been replaced by someone more competent. If you aren't dealing with a quality service provider, you only have yourself to blame.

 

Lol sea shark I am - me!  So you are saying that the NCL PCC’s aren’t competent then?  BTW TA 1 was to get air miles, because of a number of issues with them I am with.a different TA now - booked myself with NCL online, then transferred cruise to TA for a better price.

[mugtech]

On 10/29/2018 at 10:18 AM, schildiams said:

Wow I do see that now. Thanks - I really looked for it and still didn't find it 🙂 Still seems deceptive to have it all the way at the bottom in small italicized font and NOT in the "learn more" link. 

The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.  Listen to more Tom Waits

[yearsofcruising]

AND to add insult to injury , so if you begin your drinking while still docked before leaving your port , you pay tax !!! check your bill.....

[schildiams]

5 minutes ago, yearsofcruising said:

AND to add insult to injury , so if you begin your drinking while still docked before leaving your port , you pay tax !!! check your bill.....

Yes - and during every day while docked in many ports. But that’s not the fault of ncl!

 

edited to add maybe it IS he fault of ncl? Just read in a celebrity board that neither the gratuities nor any taxes are charged in port on their free beverage package.

Edited October 31, 2018 by schildiams

[yearsofcruising]

I know....lol  learned the hard way 25 years ago  .....especially when the wife catches me drinking Mudslides at 10:30 am...

Edited October 31, 2018 by magicmawk

[SeaShark]

57 minutes ago, erdoran said:

 

 

Lol sea shark I am - me!  So you are saying that the NCL PCC’s aren’t competent then?  BTW TA 1 was to get air miles, because of a number of issues with them I am with.a different TA now - booked myself with NCL online, then transferred cruise to TA for a better price.

 

No...I'm not saying that the NCL PCC's aren't competent. What I am saying is that there are SOME NCL PCC's and some TAs who are incompetent...just like in any other profession. What I am saying is that if a person is dealing with someone incompetent, they only have themselves to blame for that situation. 

[sfaaa]

11 hours ago, schildiams said:

. Since you have now read through all my posts, you know that few other complaints that I have made surround advertising issues/clerical issues. For example, in 2015 NCL advertised free 3rd and 4th but AFTER I booked, they claimed that it had not been advertised (I had screenshots) and offered me ½ off those passengers (and the problem was half off WHAT since no where was a third/fourth price listed.) More recently, NCL double charged me for service charges - once on our originally planned cruise and then again on the transferred booking made when my mother was diagnosed with cancer. We were outside of penalties, and should have just cancelled and rebooked - but we were told by NCL that it would be easier to transfer - except our prepaid gratuities never made it to the transferred booking and we were charged for them again. NCL never resolved this, to this date. Is a person who has been charged more than advertised or charged twice for fees not allowed to complain? And if NCL makes another mistake three years from now, would you then accuse me of "STILL" complaining, if I post about it then? Do any of my other posts in between count?

You can keep trying to silence me. Stalk me if you like. Try to shame me into going away. It doesn't take away from the fact that NCL has some questionable practices.

I get it now. You have an axe to grind with NCL and decided to use CC and FTC as your soap box to vent and seek revenge. Nothing to do with Free At Sea Promo.

[fshagan]

7 hours ago, schildiams said:

A complaint has already been filed with the FTC. My original question was asking if anyone thought that a legal challenge would actually change the way NCL words their advertisements. I have read another case filed against three computer stores who advertised "free" computers where the associated fees where not clear but rather listed in fine print. The decision in that case seems to suggest that NCL would be required to change their ways. But you never know how a ruling will turn out until it is decided.

 

I wish more people would file complaints with the FTC, via the Complaint Assistant. 

 

I'm not an attorney, but my understanding is that you, as an individual, don't have standing to sue for deceptive advertising. You haven't been harmed by it, so you have nothing to recover. You could claim a potential loss, but you're asking to recover about $300. So it's not worth a lawsuit. 

 

The FTC is the right agency to complain to, and one call from them and I guarantee that NCL will listen. They have already settled a case with the FTC for one of their subcontractors (a telemarketer). I am sure they don't want to go through that again.

[rtkenmore]

57 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

I get it now. You have an axe to grind with NCL and decided to use CC and FTC as your soap box to vent and seek revenge. Nothing to do with Free At Sea Promo.

BINGO!

[schildiams]

Nope. No ax to grind. The double service charge is related to a cruise that we sailed on the gem in April. I called and wrote customer relations but got no reply other than a denial, despite the fact that I have all of the paperwork and bills to prove it. Unfortunately I didn’t realize it until after I got home because I had used two different credit cards for the two separate charges and the first payment was 18 months prior. I only made the connection after ncl also made the mistake of not transferring the shipboard credit that we had bought for the first cruise. They denied that too for the entire cruise until the last night when I had to ask the pursar to get involved. Only thrn did they  acknowledge their error and give me the credit but no apology. It was that mistake that made me check the other cruise charges once I returned home.

But I’m way over that. I chalked it up to hopefully my waiters and steward getting double tips, though I doubt that happened 😞 

Good try though!

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by schildiams

[NCTribeFan]

23 hours ago, schildiams said:

You have made my  point - you weren't aware of the service charge until you had an invoice in hand. And then you had to go find the rules. That's the whole issue in a nutshell. Why not just post the rules right there upfront? And yes the MSC example IS different bc you are charged at time of service - the charge is not in any way hidden in the fine print. 

 

Nope.  I hadn't even been to NCL's website.  Booked that first NCL cruise through a TA because cruise friends had booked it.  It was only after he sent me the quote - not an invoice as I wouldn't finalized the booking until I'd seen the invoice - that I went to the website to look at the details (cabin types, hours in port, etc.) and did my reading.  I typically do all my research ahead of time before I book but that booking was different for me.  Point being, I found the details and fine print easily once I actually went to the website.

 

I don't think there's that much difference between NCL and MSC and the drink packages.  You pay a service charge on either the package or by-the-drink.  If you purchase Carnival's Cheers package, you are charged the service charge on the total, whether you pre-purchase or buy once you board.  Same with their wine package. 

 

I just really don't think seeing the fine print is all that difficult to do.  It just isn't some sort of deceptive trick. 

[schildiams]

Except that by definition, "fine print" is "something thoroughly and often deliberately obscure" and  "inconspicuous":

 

Definition of fine print 

 

: something thoroughly and often deliberately obscure especially : a part of an agreement or document spelling out restrictions and limitations often in small type or obscure language

 

fine print

/ˈˌfīn ˈprint/

noun

 

1. printed matter in small type.

   • inconspicuous details or conditions printed in an agreement or contract, especially ones that may prove unfavorable.

Edited October 31, 2018 by schildiams

[Two Wheels Only]

22 minutes ago, NCTribeFan said:

I don't think there is that much difference between NCL and MSC and the drink packages.  You pay a service charge on either the package or by-the-drink. 

 

 

MSC's is a bit different because of their experience "levels". On NCL, whether Haven or interior, the UOB/UBP is the same. On MSC, a Yacht Club guest isn't given a service charge on the package nor per drink.

[deliver42]

On MSC the only time a service charge is added to a drink is with the "Drinks on us "package, or individual drinks without any package. The "all inclusive" or the premium packages have no service charge added.

[erdoran]

 

I'm gonna side with OP here.  If someone thinks they were done wrong they have every right to their opinion.  As far as the double DSC charge, how is OP wrong to complain?  Likewise about NCL not crediting his prepaid OBC until he wasted precious vacation time to get what was paid for months earlier.  

 

I personally, as I have said, found NCL more forthcoming when I booked my next cruise in September 2018 than they were in late 2017/early 2018, when the 20% for the UBP showed up on NCL's page as "special services" and there WAS NOTHING during booking that disclosed there was a charge, nor was there an explanation of what "special services" were.  I had no problem seeing there was a charge this time around.

 

With regard to "OP hadn't done his homework" there are also recommendations here to book through a TA who will educate you.  I posted my own experience about booking through a TA last December who failed to tell me that the DSC even exists! I don't remember if he told me about the 20% but I was aware of it then through my own research - but clearly those who follow the board's advice and book through a TA may well get surprised one way or another.

 

And Seashark, as far as not doing business with incompetents, I agree, and that's why I spend an inordinate amount of time doing my homework, reading these boards, and analyzing all numbers, so for me all a TA does is give me a better price, or extra OBC.  I do my own initial booking and research everything myself.  But that's not for everyone, and that IS what a TA is paid to do, AND to properly inform pax about ALL fees and charges and what they are for.  Right?  So the DSC on the onboard account isn't a surprise (which it would have been to me based on my first TA), or so the non-DSC crew don't get stiffed (which they would have been based on my first TA AND the NCL PCC).

[NLH Arizona]

10 hours ago, schildiams said:

Nope. No ax to grind. The double service charge is related to a cruise that we sailed on the gem in April. I called and wrote customer relations but got no reply other than a denial, despite the fact that I have all of the paperwork and bills to prove it. Unfortunately I didn’t realize it until after I got home because I had used two different credit cards for the two separate charges and the first payment was 18 months prior. I only made the connection after ncl also made the mistake of not transferring the shipboard credit that we had bought for the first cruise. They denied that too for the entire cruise until the last night when I had to ask the pursar to get involved. Only thrn did they  acknowledge their error and give me the credit but no apology. It was that mistake that made me check the other cruise charges once I returned home.

But I’m way over that. I chalked it up to hopefully my waiters and steward getting double tips, though I doubt that happened 😞 

Good try though!

 

Thanks, now I understand why your are angry with NCL.  Please let us all know how your friend makes out with the FTC claim.