Wondering why NCL can advertise the drink package as "Free" when it's not

[rtkenmore]

10 minutes ago, schildiams said:

Yes, now that you were able to get in your last snark, time to move on.

 

You've been complaining about NCL and their "scams" for 3 years...  Seriously, quit sailing with them if you have that much of an issue.  You were complaining about their pricing structure and calling it a scam back in 2015.  And here you are, three years later STILL complaining...  🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[mdsgu]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:03 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

 

I know that the service charge isn't the same as a tip but if we see it that way, it makes sense I think.

 

In the US if someone get a free meal for some reason, are they expected to tip or how are the waiters compensated for the work they do for that free meal?

 

In Sweden a free meal means a free meal since a tip isn't expected but how does it work in the US?

 

Yes, in the US, if the meal is "free" or "comped" for some reason, it is still customary to tip on the cost of the meal.

[sverigecruiser]

51 minutes ago, fshagan said:

 

I agree that it is a sneaky way to do things. I was just pointing out the use of the asterisk in American advertising that others in countries with stricter consumer laws might not understand. 

 

 

Sweden has rather strict consumer laws but I don't think that the asterisk was hard to understand.

[Shak]

I can only think that not including gratuities upfront is to disguise the fact that they have the highest drink package among it competitors.

 

Another criticism of the program is that water and speciality coffee is not include the "Ultimate Beverage Package" as many other cruise lines offer.  I really find this odd too.  I would think they would want you to consume lower priced beverages.

 

For those that have used this program can I order a bourbon and Pellegrino water and ask them to hold the bourbon?

 

Shak

[schildiams]

21 minutes ago, rtkenmore said:

 

You've been complaining about NCL and their "scams" for 3 years...  Seriously, quit sailing with them if you have that much of an issue.  You were complaining about their pricing structure and calling it a scam back in 2015.  And here you are, three years later STILL complaining...  🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Are you a stalker? Should I be concerned? The fact is that since 2015, I have had both rave reviews of NCL and some bad reviews. I have enjoyed every trip, but there were some atypical,  serious issues on a Breakaway trip that NCL acknowledged with a future credit. Since you have now read through all my posts, you know that few other complaints that I have made surround advertising issues/clerical issues. For example, in 2015 NCL advertised free 3rd and 4th but AFTER I booked, they claimed that it had not been advertised (I had screenshots) and offered me ½ off those passengers (and the problem was half off WHAT since no where was a third/fourth price listed.) More recently, NCL double charged me for service charges - once on our originally planned cruise and then again on the transferred booking made when my mother was diagnosed with cancer. We were outside of penalties, and should have just cancelled and rebooked - but we were told by NCL that it would be easier to transfer - except our prepaid gratuities never made it to the transferred booking and we were charged for them again. NCL never resolved this, to this date. Is a person who has been charged more than advertised or charged twice for fees not allowed to complain? And if NCL makes another mistake three years from now, would you then accuse me of "STILL" complaining, if I post about it then? Do any of my other posts in between count?

You can keep trying to silence me. Stalk me if you like. Try to shame me into going away. It doesn't take away from the fact that NCL has some questionable practices.

Edited October 30, 2018 by schildiams

[PTC DAWG]

This thread gets worse every time it comes up.  It’s simple, take the perk, pay the grats, or not.  

[vpearlkc]

2 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

Oh, goody!  A "deceptive practices" thread!  I haven't contributed to one on this board before!

 

I took my first NCL cruise in April (Star TA).  I booked through a TA and when he sent me the pending invoice, I saw the service charge for the "free" drink package.  I then went to NCL's website and read the rules.  Sure seemed like a good deal to me, even with the service charge.  I'm booked on the Jade TA next spring and happily accepted the drinks as one of my perks.

 

I'll be on my first MSC cruise in December and the fare included the free basic drink package.  Unlike NCL, I will be charged the service charge with each drink.  So, the drink itself is still free and I'm still charged a service charge, so is it really that different?  Not in my eyes.

 

Sounds like a better system at MSC. If my wife had only has a couple of drinks she wouldn't be paying almost $20 in gratuities. Even I would have trouble consuming enough to justify the gratuity on shore days. 

[billco]

We recently returned from a 16 day transatlantic on the NCL Jade. As part of our booking with a travel agent the ultimate beverage was included along with all gratuities including the gratuity for the UBP and the DSC. We also had $400 in refundable credit. I suggest if the fine print is a problem, then go with a good TA who works for you.

[cathi007]

17 hours ago, ano said:

Since I just got off an NCL cruise, the answer now would be yes, but I certainly wouldn't have signed up for the "free drinks" knowing what I know now.

First of all before you sign any contract you should always read the fine print, it's common sense. The package is free, as usually it costs 99.00 per day. You are paying the gratuities. If you don't like it, don't order it, simple as that. Why would anyone complain about the plan??? Do you have any idea how much drinks are on a ship. Maybe you should just stay home from now on, but I guess you won't have anything to complain about. I will enjoy my FREE drink package on my cruise.... Oh mine is FREE, as my tips were paid for as a perk, lol

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, schildiams said:

  If you don't know what the terms are, how can you agree or disagree with them? Why not post the link to the terms and condition right there or in the learn more link?

 

 

There's a link to the Guest Ticket Contract on the home page.

There's a link to the Passenger Bill Of Rights on the home page.

 

If there was a link to the Terms & Conditions on the home page, what are the odds that the OP would have clicked on it and read the terms? If the OP or anyone else missed the asterisk and what it meant, they would have missed the link, too.

[schildiams]

10 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

There's a link to the Guest Ticket Contract on the home page.

There's a link to the Passenger Bill Of Rights on the home page.

 

If there was a link to the Terms & Conditions on the home page, what are the odds that the OP would have clicked on it and read the terms? If the OP or anyone else missed the asterisk and what it meant, they would have missed the link, too.

Thanks for that info. It IS very interesting that there are links to these items right o the front page - and links to lots and lots of other info on that same page - BUT NO LINK TO THE TEMRS & CONDITIONS of the "free" drinks. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. What are the chances I might have clicked on it and read the terms? You seem pretty certain that I would not have. Nor would anyone else who missed the asterisk. But if you are a gambling man, I'm not sure you would play that bet in the casino. And, it's a moot point anyway. WHY? Because that link is NOT on the homepage. Which leads me back to the original point - WHY NOT? Why isn't it there? If NCL intentionally places so many other links on the page, why not the one that they are advertising in BIG bold letters, as the lead in to the site? Again, interesting....

[schildiams]

1 hour ago, cathi007 said:

First of all before you sign any contract you should always read the fine print, it's common sense. The package is free, as usually it costs 99.00 per day. You are paying the gratuities. If you don't like it, don't order it, simple as that. Why would anyone complain about the plan??? Do you have any idea how much drinks are on a ship. Maybe you should just stay home from now on, but I guess you won't have anything to complain about. I will enjoy my FREE drink package on my cruise.... Oh mine is FREE, as my tips were paid for as a perk, lol

Hey "cool" cruiser, maybe I'm not as cool as you are, so I should just stay home, "lol?" It is funny how lots of the posters with the same opinion have the same reply. I am seeing a pattern here!

The point, once again, is that the FTC requires that advertisements be clear to NOT be misleading. Yes, of course it's common sense to read the fine print before signing a contract. But that's not what the post is about. It's about advertisements. You're still not getting it, for some reason. Did you read my post? Did you understand it? I am NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PLAN. I know how much the drink costs. And your last line just about sums it up. If it takes a perk to truly make it free, it wasn't free in the first place. 

It's odd how some people, including you, have no problem being rude to a person, telling them that they should stay home, but at the same time takes issue with a consumer asking a valid question about the questionable practice of a corporation. That makes no sense to me.

Edited October 30, 2018 by schildiams

[Two Wheels Only]

14 minutes ago, schildiams said:

It IS very interesting that there are links to these items right o the front page - and links to lots and lots of other info on that same page - BUT NO LINK TO THE TEMRS & CONDITIONS of the "free" drinks. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. What are the chances I might have clicked on it and read the terms?

 

The point is that the info is on the homepage and the OP missed it. Whether directly on the homepage or linked, there is no guaranteed way for NCL to "force" people to read anything.

 

YOU might click on a T&C link and read it (a smart thing) but the majority of people will not just like how the majority of people don't click and read the other 2 links on the homepage. Those 2 links are far more important than the promo term link but people still don't read them.

 

I understand that you feel that NCL is lacking when it comes to providing information to gullible cruisers but even if you designed the homepage/webpage, there would STILL be people who complain that they didn't see or know something. It's inevitable.

 

People get excited when booking or thinking about booking a cruise. Their emotion sometimes blinds them to the boring T&C. Sometimes, a guest will come to the forum and complain about what they didn't see or didn't know. The info is there but too many people don't bother to look. How many people read what they agree to during the booking process? Not enough and obviously not all. You, I, and the majority of posters in this thread might but many more people on the ship will not.

[PTC DAWG]

4 hours ago, schildiams said:

No, everyone on this thread has not been able to find it. And most people cursing on NCL are not on this thread. And if it was so obvious, you could have just posted a screenshot and said "look it's right there."  PS here's what a lawsuit determined when three computer companies advertised "free" computers that actually had fees associated with the "free" item: In addition, if the companies advertise a price or rebate that is conditioned on the purchase of any other product or service (including Internet service), the proposed orders require the companies to disclose both that requirement and the price of the other product and service. The disclosures must be clear and conspicuous, and in close proximity to the price claim. The BUY.COM and Value America orders also require clear and conspicuous disclosures, whenever an after-rebate price is advertised, of the amounts of the rebates and the before-rebate price. These disclosures are critical to consumers in understanding their obligations under the offer and what their out-of-pocket costs will be. 

 

In NCL's case, I think that a successful argument could be made that neither the fees or the cost of it is posted clear and conspicuously in the ad. And like any other case, it could also go the other way. I can see both sides. But its not an open/shut case, for sure. Again, if not trying to hide it, why not just post it and the price of it right there? 

The horse is dead. 

[cheech907]

19 hours ago, ano said:

Here is a simple guide to see the deception.

I'm a new cruiser, or maybe not. I start at the NCL Homepage.   NCL Home Page

And I'm hooked by the free drinks. So I look at the cruises to see more.

I'm first on the "Find a Cruise" here: Find A Cruise

I see lots of cruises, but pick one that has "Free At Sea"  like this first one: Nice Inside Room ...

On the bottom right, it says "Free At Sea" So I'm on the right path.

So I pick a nice room, and my "Free At Sea" selection shows up here: Free At Sea Selection

Wow it says "Unlimited Open Bar" for Guests 1 & 2. I press ADD. Nowhere on this page is ANY NOTE about a gratuity. NOWHERE.

I click ADD and Continue.  Not a peep about gratuity. It does include "Free Unlimited Open Bar"

So I press "Select and Continue.

Pay for Cruise

I enter my name and credit card. Depending on the date I may have booked a non-refundable deposit. It does NOW say $277.20 for "Free At Sea Gratuities" but its easy to miss, and there really is no explanation of this charge. Its almost the same as the "Gov't Taxes, Frees, and Port Charges" at $270.90.  With the excitement of booking the cruise, its easy to book. 

 

Now please explain, on which of these pages above does it explain about the 20% Gratuity Charge? The answer is none of them. If NCL wasn't tryng to slip this by people, it would pop up when I selected this option. It doesn't. That is the deceptive part. On all these pages you go through to BOOK your cruise, ONE of them needs to explain this charge. I should not need to wade through pages to find it.

 

 

 

This is exactly the point of the post! it is deceptive any way you slice it, or any way you want to justify it. Why not just show the price you WOULD pay without compared to what you would pay if you did select this perk? why make it more complicated than it needs to be? why are we "okay with having to read the fine print" instead of telling us the details where the details matter? people will see the value if you just be honest!

[PTC DAWG]

Re the above post, you see the price change immediately when you select the UBP or the UDP as a perk...they add the grats...seems simple to me.  It comes BEFORE they ask you to pay for anything. 

 

Yall keep beating the poor lifeless animal. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by PTC DAWG

[NLH Arizona]

1 hour ago, schildiams said:

 

The point, once again, is that the FTC requires that advertisements be clear to NOT be misleading.

You keep pointing this out; I wonder why you don't file a claim with the FTC, because no one on this site can do anything about it.

Edited October 30, 2018 by NLH Arizona

[Two Wheels Only]

16 minutes ago, cheech907 said:

 why are we "okay with having to read the fine print" instead of telling us the details where the details matter? people will see the value if you just be honest!

 

If you select the promo then "Continue", the next page that loads will have the details such as Free at Sea Offer Gratuities (and the amount), Govt. taxes, fees, & port Expenses (and the amount) and the new total price.

 

 

... you don't even have to click "View Details" under the new total price.

 

All of this is shown before even selecting a stateroom.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Two Wheels Only

[schildiams]

Wow you make that sound like one click. But, in reality, it takes 11 steps for that "next" page to load with the fees:

 

1. Choose a destination that you want to visit

2. Choose a ship

3. Click Details

4.  Click "Date/Pricing"

5. Choose date

6. Click "Balcony" (or other choice)

7. Click "Stateroom options"

8. Click "aft balcony" (or other)

9. click "decline upgrade" offered

10. Click to add promos

11. click continue

 

But yes, after all of that, as you stated: 

... you don't even have to click "View Details" under the new total price.

 

All of this is shown before even selecting a stateroom.

 

Easy as pie! 

But wouldn't it be just a tiny bit easier if NCL just linked to it right there on the home page under the big letters "FREE"? 🙂

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by schildiams

[SeaShark]

Well...aside from the obvious fact that you simply can't just put a link to each and every thing right there on the home page, again where does a person have responsibility to understand and know what they are buying?

 

If you have anything other than a 100% grasp of the details of the purchase, you'd have to be a fool not to be working with a PCC or TA...paid and educated travel professionals who already know all of the details that you try to claim are actually deceptions.

 

Based on the quality of the complaint, it appears that CC might not be the proper venue for this issue. The OP obviously isn't arguing this case with the cruise line, the OP obviously isn't arguing this case with the FTC...perhaps the OP would be better served by taking the issue to Consumer Affairs. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/ncl_cruise.htm

[schildiams]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

You keep pointing this out; I wonder why you don't file a claim with the FTC, because no one on this site can do anything about it.

 

I keep pointing it out because people keep replying with posts that don't seem to understand the issue. Lots of confusion with people thinking the issue is with the drink package cost or the cost of the fees or the cost of drinks if you buy them separately or that fact they think that I am a complainer or that I should just stop sailing NCL. And no, this site can't do anything about it. But, if you actually read my OP, you will see that I asked a question - wondering if anyone on this board thought that the wording on the NCL would change if someone did file a complaint. It was sort of a survey, to gather some opinions on whether or not anyone thought that a complaint would actually force NCL to advertise in a more clear/conspicuous manner. Ironically, not one person who complained forcefully that people should read better, seems to have actually read that part b/c not one reply addresses the question. But don't worry, we will soon find out the answer. At least I will. My friend with similar concerns recently filed a complaint - which is what made me think to ask the question in the first place. I'm not really sure if it will make a difference or not. But I hope that it does. 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

33 minutes ago, schildiams said:

Wow you make that sound like one click. But, in reality, it takes 11 clicks  for that "next" page to load with the fees:

 

You have to make those clicks when booking the cruise. Not everyone selects the same promos. Some promos have no added charge. The system doesn't know what a guest will select. A selection must be made in order to show the cost associated with that selection. If booking a 6 day cruise, the charge will be less than if selecting a 15 day cruise. The person making the booking has to make selections and the charges will reflect those selections.

 

33 minutes ago, schildiams said:

But wouldn't it be just a tiny bit easier if NCL just linked to it right there on the home page under the big letters "FREE"? 

 

As for the "...fees", you have to know that there may be fees because you read it on the homepage.

 

Before selecting a cruise or even clicking "Learn More", it's already known that "Gratuities, Beverage, Specialty Service Charges & other restrictions may apply". No clicking needed to know that.

 

The person being quoted (ano) wrote

Quote

I'm a new cruiser, or maybe not. I start at the NCL Homepage.  

NCL Home Page

And I'm hooked by the free drinks. So I look at the cruises to see more. 

...but didn't read about the charges on the homepage.

 

Then wrote...

Quote

I press ADD. Nowhere on this page is ANY NOTE about a gratuity. NOWHERE.

...because ano didn't see it on the homepage.

 

Then wrote...

Quote

I click ADD and Continue.  Not a peep about gratuity. It does include "Free Unlimited Open Bar"

 

So I press "Select and Continue. 

 

The charge is there right after clicking "Continue" but ano didn't see it.

 

Then wrote...

Quote

I enter my name and credit card. Depending on the date I may have booked a non-refundable deposit. It does NOW say $277.20 for "Free At Sea Gratuities" but its easy to miss...

Long before getting to that page, the charge for the promo is shown with the applicable amount. It's not easy to miss.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Two Wheels Only

[memoak]

Please drop this thread you have beaten it to death

[schildiams]

1 minute ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

You have to make those clicks when booking the cruise. Not everyone selects the same promos. Some promos have no added charge. The system doesn't know what a guest will select. A selection must be made in order to show the cost associated with that selection. If booking a 6 day cruise, the charge will be less than if selecting a 15 day cruise. The person making the booking has to make selections and the charges will reflect those selections.

 

 

As for the "...fees", you have to know that there may be fees because you read it on the homepage.

 

Before selecting a cruise or even clicking "Learn More", it's already known that "Gratuities, Beverage, Specialty Service Charges & other restrictions may apply". No clicking needed to know that.

 

The person being quoted (ano) wrote

 

 

...but didn't read about the charges on the homepage.

 

Then wrote...

 

...because ano didn't see it on the homepage.

 

Then wrote...

 

 

The charge is there right after clicking "Continue" but ano didn't see it.

 

Then wrote...

 

 

Long before getting to that page, the charge for the promo is shown with the applicable amount. It's not easy to miss.

How about a simple yes or no answer?

Would it make it more clear if NCL put a link to the terms and conditions/the cost of the fees right on the home page under the word "free"?

Yes or No? 

[schildiams]

2 minutes ago, memoak said:

Please drop this thread you have beaten it to death

If you feel that way, why not scroll by?