Disappointed

[davekathy]

11 minutes ago, twodaywonder said:

I was told by many that work in restaurants, not cruise lines. That a chef, cook or server hates when something comes back. Does unthinkable things to the food. I would think on a cruise line you would not have to be concerned about that. At least I hope not.

Yeah anything is possible no matter where you dine.  So when your selection(s) are severed to you as you described in your post #173 do you not eat and walk out (land or cruise restaurants)? 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

9 minutes ago, davekathy said:

Yeah anything is possible no matter where you dine.  So when your selection(s) are severed to you as you described in your post #173 do you not eat and walk out (land or cruise restaurants)? 

Land restaurant. Yes, we walk out. Unless it is only to have a steak done a little more. Maybe they forgot a side. On a ship, we eat it as is, or tell them we do not care for the taste and try something different or also walk out and go elsewhere. 

[davekathy]

3 minutes ago, twodaywonder said:

Land restaurant. Yes, we walk out. Unless it is only to have a steak done a little more. Maybe they forgot a side. On a ship, we eat it as is, or tell them we do not care for the taste and try something different or also walk out and go elsewhere. 

So you also take the same risk as the rest of us that on that rare occasion have to send a selection back for whatever the reason it was you sent your selection back for. Thanks for clearing that up. Bon Appetit.  

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

One time at Outback the steak was terrible. We ate it. It was late and we were starving. Before leaving, we mentioned it to the manager. Her reply was. You should have bought the more expensive steak. Our reply was. We have had the same steak several times and it was great. No apologies at all. Go figure.

[mek]

2 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

I was told by many that work in restaurants, not cruise lines. That a chef, cook or server hates when something comes back. Does unthinkable things to the food. I would think on a cruise line you would not have to be concerned about that. At least I hope not.

My step daughter and her husband are in the food business and own franchises. She is convinced this happens and will never send anything back, but I personally think it 's more of an urban legend.  I'm sure it occasionally happens, but I refuse to pay good money for something that isn't right and I don't lose any sleep over if I do send it back.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

2 hours ago, davekathy said:

If we don't like the selection we ordered that's on us. Do we ask for a substitute. If it's the entree, yes. If our selection isn't prepared the way we ordered it, cold or the seasoning isn't to our liking, we would send it back. 

 

How do you compare the quality of food on land, if quality is the fault of the consumer? Let's say you order from Burger King, Red Robin, and Shake Shack, the same exact entree.  By your philosophy, it is all relative to your willingness to have your selections fixed.  There are no bad kitchens or recipes, just bad customers.

 

"Are you the Burger King manager?  Yes, I want to apologize for telling all my friends that your food has gone downhill since the 90's, I realize now that wasn't true, my fault for eating it and blaming corporate.  Here is a picture of Shake Shack, I'm going to ask you to remake this food so it measures up to theirs."  

[Baron Barracuda]

4 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

I was told by many that work in restaurants, not cruise lines. That a chef, cook or server hates when something comes back. Does unthinkable things to the food. I would think on a cruise line you would not have to be concerned about that. At least I hope not.

 

Would expect on a cruise ship where hundreds of each entree are prepared every night focus is more on keeping up with order flow than cooking  perfection.  Send back an overcooked steak, waiter discards it and grabs another from the line.

[davekathy]

2 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

How do you compare the quality of food on land, if quality is the fault of the consumer? Let's say you order from Burger King, Red Robin, and Shake Shack, the same exact entree.  By your philosophy, it is all relative to your willingness to have your selections fixed.  There are no bad kitchens or recipes, just bad customers.

 

"Are you the Burger King manager?  Yes, I want to apologize for telling all my friends that your food has gone downhill since the 90's, I realize now that wasn't true, my fault for eating it and blaming corporate.  Here is a picture of Shake Shack, I'm going to ask you to remake this food so it measures up to theirs."  

 Who said quality of food is fault of the consumer? Not me. I said if I don't like the selection I ordered. Lets say I tried sea bass for the first time. Hated it. Doesn't mean the restaurant I ordered it from prepared it wrong or it's of poor quality. Just not something I liked. That's on me! Not sending that back. Now if I order a steak medium rare and it is cooked well done, that's the fault of the cook and I will send it back. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by davekathy

[Marelaine]

5 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

I was told by many that work in restaurants, not cruise lines. That a chef, cook or server hates when something comes back. Does unthinkable things to the food. I would think on a cruise line you would not have to be concerned about that. At least I hope not.

 

When I do send something back, I'm always very nice to the server, hoping he/she will look after my best interest. It probably does happen in land based restaurants with customers who are rude about it. I've never been on a galley tour, but don't the servers pick the plates for their tables off a conveyer belt or something similar? I don't think each table's order is handed to the chefs.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

1 hour ago, davekathy said:

 Who said quality of food is fault of the consumer? Not me. I said if I don't like the selection I ordered. Lets say I tried sea bass for the first time. Hated it. Doesn't mean the restaurant I ordered it from prepared it wrong or it's of poor quality. Just not something I liked. That's on me! Not sending that back. Now if I order a steak medium rare and it is cooked well done, that's the fault of the cook and I will send it back. 

 

If someone said that they tried sea bass for the first time and didn't like it, or that their steak wasn't cooked how they asked, I wouldn't take these complaints serious either.

 

Generally we are complaining about poorer quality cuts, missing incidence, cold buffet trays, watery soups, and a sharp downgrade in the general offerings.  Unless you've sailed in April or May, I don't think people really grasp what we're talking about.  Of course there may have been a better choice on the menu, closer in quality to how it should be, but the dining staff is shorthanded and stressed.  I filled out my post-cruise survey and am voting with my dollars, cancelling South America for next year.  The bean counters at X knew how to provide great food before, and it will be up to them to turn it back.

[davekathy]

35 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

If someone said that they tried sea bass for the first time and didn't like it, or that their steak wasn't cooked how they asked, I wouldn't take these complaints serious either.

 

Generally we are complaining about poorer quality cuts, missing incidence, cold buffet trays, watery soups, and a sharp downgrade in the general offerings.  Unless you've sailed in April or May, I don't think people really grasp what we're talking about.  Of course there may have been a better choice on the menu, closer in quality to how it should be, but the dining staff is shorthanded and stressed.  I filled out my post-cruise survey and am voting with my dollars, cancelling South America for next year.  The bean counters at X knew how to provide great food before, and it will be up to them to turn it back.

No Celebrity cruise yet this year. September on the Summit for 14 nights. Did 14 nights on the Freedom in March of this year. No food complaints. If we did we would let the staff know at that time and on the PCS.  We love the lobster served on cruise ships while a lot of CC posters hate it. So I get it. Enjoy your next cruise adventure with whoever. Variety and choices is a good thing. Looking forward to our Summit cruises.  

Edited May 19, 2019 by davekathy

[Cruising TBD]

11 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

If someone said that they tried sea bass for the first time and didn't like it, or that their steak wasn't cooked how they asked, I wouldn't take these complaints serious either.

 

Generally we are complaining about poorer quality cuts, missing incidence, cold buffet trays, watery soups, and a sharp downgrade in the general offerings.  Unless you've sailed in April or May, I don't think people really grasp what we're talking about.  Of course there may have been a better choice on the menu, closer in quality to how it should be, but the dining staff is shorthanded and stressed.  I filled out my post-cruise survey and am voting with my dollars, cancelling South America for next year.  The bean counters at X knew how to provide great food before, and it will be up to them to turn it back.

 

Thank you very much Stateroom_Sailor.

 

I note your comment about April or May - it seems to correlate to some postings lately and in some CC reviews - references to watery soups, mystery meat etc.

 

Could you elaborate your observations so we can contrast the yet most recent downgrades from the previous downgrades.

 

I do not like what I hear.

 

Your assistance would be appreciated.

 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

24 minutes ago, Cruising TBD said:

 

Thank you very much Stateroom_Sailor.

 

I note your comment about April or May - it seems to correlate to some postings lately and in some CC reviews - references to watery soups, mystery meat etc.

 

Could you elaborate your observations so we can contrast the yet most recent downgrades from the previous downgrades.

 

I do not like what I hear.

 

Your assistance would be appreciated.

 

 

I've read about the 2018 downgrades, but didn't notice them on our 4 night Halloween cruise.  We're novice foodies, mostly ate in Blu, and the fresh cooked pasta station.  There may have been downgrades in the MDR or general buffet, that we simply weren't exposed to.

 

April 2019 on Eclipse:

 

1.  Stale Bread in Blu

2.  Hummus spread an option only on the first night, pureed corn, beets, and peas the rest.

3.  Burnt Toast from Room Service, hard as a rock.

4.  Watery Soups (clam chowder missing clam stock = watery potato soup)

5.  Missing ingredients (Apple Salad only containing 2 micro slivers of apple)

6.  Little to no vegetables with the entree, even if listed on the menu.  Often undercooked or overcooked.

7.  Inconsistent meat quality and preparation, often fattier, smaller lobster

8.  Lower quality wine selections and/or ran out of stock

9.  Overworked and understaffed crew, longer wait times, less personalized service

10.  No more Mongolian Wok

11.  Fresh cooked pasta station using inferior sauces, and fewer ingredients

12.  Usually the Oceanview Cafe food was lukewarm to cold.

13.  Low rent buffet food.  I could only eat the salad, fruits, and cheese.

14.  Desserts looked like cheap cafeteria squares, gone are the decorative cakes on display.

15.  Frozen Mixed Veggies, added the last night!

 

 

 

[citronella]

22 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

1.  Stale Bread in Blu

2.  Hummus spread an option only on the first night, pureed corn, beets, and peas the rest.

3.  Burnt Toast from Room Service, hard as a rock.

4.  Watery Soups (clam chowder missing clam stock = watery potato soup)

5.  Missing ingredients (Apple Salad only containing 2 micro slivers of apple)

6.  Little to no vegetables with the entree, even if listed on the menu.  Often undercooked or overcooked.

7.  Inconsistent meat quality and preparation, often fattier, smaller lobster

8.  Lower quality wine selections and/or ran out of stock

9.  Overworked and understaffed crew, longer wait times, less personalized service

10.  No more Mongolian Wok

11.  Fresh cooked pasta station using inferior sauces, and fewer ingredients

12.  Usually the Oceanview Cafe food was lukewarm to cold.

13.  Low rent buffet food.  I could only eat the salad, fruits, and cheese.

14.  Desserts looked like cheap cafeteria squares, gone are the decorative cakes on display.

15.  Frozen Mixed Veggies, added the last night!

 

 

StateroomSailor, don’t know if you’ve ever watched Fawlty Towers - you sound like Mr. Carnegie reading a list of what’s wrong with the restaurant in Basil the Rat.  Lol.

[Cruising TBD]

Stateroom_Sailor - thanks for your posting.

 

You have summarized well the downgrade of quantity, quality and choice.

 

As others have said, it is the rush to the bottom of quality on Celebrity - but also on all other lines.

 

I could not believe the decline in food and service on Oceania since they introduced the new menu August 2018. The food in the MDR, Marina, Sirena, Regatta was worse than the MDR on my last Celebrity. Rushing off to the premium lines is no guarantee of improvements - given the price difference. The premium lines know there are mass line customers "moving up", so they have a newish flow of business and they can downgrade their product and increase revenue. It was obvious to me what Oceania was up to.

 

I do fondly remember the Celebrity of old where every cruise was consistently, consistently excellent. 

[Bo1953]

18 minutes ago, Cruising TBD said:

Stateroom_Sailor - thanks for your posting.

 

You have summarized well the downgrade of quantity, quality and choice.

 

As others have said, it is the rush to the bottom of quality on Celebrity - but also on all other lines.

 

I could not believe the decline in food and service on Oceania since they introduced the new menu August 2018. The food in the MDR, Marina, Sirena, Regatta was worse than the MDR on my last Celebrity. Rushing off to the premium lines is no guarantee of improvements - given the price difference. The premium lines know there are mass line customers "moving up", so they have a newish flow of business and they can downgrade their product and increase revenue. It was obvious to me what Oceania was up to.

 

I do fondly remember the Celebrity of old where every cruise was consistently, consistently excellent. 

Well, there are 'some' posters who currently gush all over the food and its' service on Oceania....

 

Please, I trust they will not see your post and come in with salivary glands all ablaze, as the food was a major reason they departed X for O.... primarily.

 

Thank you for your thoughts on this, regardless.

 

bon appetite and bon voyage

[Stateroom_Sailor]

6 hours ago, Cruising TBD said:

 

I could not believe the decline in food and service on Oceania since they introduced the new menu August 2018. The food in the MDR, Marina, Sirena, Regatta was worse than the MDR on my last Celebrity. Rushing off to the premium lines is no guarantee of improvements - given the price difference. The premium lines know there are mass line customers "moving up", so they have a newish flow of business and they can downgrade their product and increase revenue. It was obvious to me what Oceania was up to.

 

 

Maybe Oceania needs to just settle in the premium mass market territory.  It's not a line I would consider at this point.

 

We were very happy with Holland America's food last June, exceeded our expectations.  We're also currently eyeballing Azamara, Windstar, and Avalon.  I would do Viking Ocean or Crystal at the right price, the latter having a 14 night starting at $2,500 this Fall, through a select TA.  We're actually going to leave 2022 open for luxury line deals.

[cruisingnewtoit]

38 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Maybe Oceania needs to just settle in the premium mass market territory.  It's not a line I would consider at this point.

 

We were very happy with Holland America's food last June, exceeded our expectations.  We're also currently eyeballing Azamara, Windstar, and Avalon.  I would do Viking Ocean or Crystal at the right price, the latter having a 14 night starting at $2,500 this Fall, through a select TA.  We're actually going to leave 2022 open for luxury line deals.

Loved HAL's food & their service.

[Cruising TBD]

I am wondering about the supposed benefits of moving "up" to the "premium" lines.

 

As I said earlier, the "premium" lines know that customers are fleeing the mass lines, so of course they are downgrading the experience (and increasing profits). They do not have to provide the premium experience they used to, just a bit more. They can down grade because customers think they are getting a better experience for moving up, Not really in the food and service, especially given the cost differential, generally.

 

One thing I will say is that the "premium" lines are not into the nickle and dime,  the class segmentation thing, provide a smaller ship experience and more unique and less traveled destinations. These are the 4 main differentiation points of the mass to the premium,

 

These are the 4 reasons to book "premium" if these 4 items are important to you. 

[mek]

26 minutes ago, Cruising TBD said:

I am wondering about the supposed benefits of moving "up" to the "premium" lines.

 

As I said earlier, the "premium" lines know that customers are fleeing the mass lines, so of course they are downgrading the experience (and increasing profits). They do not have to provide the premium experience they used to, just a bit more. They can down grade because customers think they are getting a better experience for moving up, Not really in the food and service, especially given the cost differential, generally.

 

One thing I will say is that the "premium" lines are not into the nickle and dime,  the class segmentation thing, provide a smaller ship experience and more unique and less traveled destinations. These are the 4 main differentiation points of the mass to the premium,

 

These are the 4 reasons to book "premium" if these 4 items are important to you. 

Agree that moving up to premium just for food doesn't make sense - at least to me.  I will probably never cruise on premium or luxury because I like big ships, I'm fine with itineraries offered on mass lines, and don't care about being nickeled and dimed. (I'd much rather pay for what I want rather than have everything all inclusive.  I really enjoy 85% of what mass cruising offers and can live with the 15% that isn't quite as good as I would like.

[helen haywood]

I was interested in HAL...until I saw their deposits are non-refundable.  That’s a deal breaker for me so I’ll only be able to look at HAL post final payment.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

5 minutes ago, helen haywood said:

I was interested in HAL...until I saw their deposits are non-refundable.  That’s a deal breaker for me so I’ll only be able to look at HAL post final payment.

 

They have refundable and non-refundable rates.  With the latter, you are locked into that price, and would be wise to make sure it matches historical lows.  Our 5 night Signature Suite was $739 vs $899, and 16 Night SS $2,199 vs $2,399.  I figured prices weren't getting any cheaper, and locked them in.  If I wanted more flexibility to change or cancel, the refundable rates were still a decent price.

[helen haywood]

That’s interesting; thank you.  I think I’ll do more research on HAL to see exactly what I would want to book and just do it after final.  Luckily we are retired and are pretty flexible...

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

18 hours ago, mek said:

Agree that moving up to premium just for food doesn't make sense - at least to me.  I will probably never cruise on premium or luxury because I like big ships, I'm fine with itineraries offered on mass lines, and don't care about being nickeled and dimed. (I'd much rather pay for what I want rather than have everything all inclusive.  I really enjoy 85% of what mass cruising offers and can live with the 15% that isn't quite as good as I would like.

I also agree. 

[cruising sister]

I totally agree about the Eclipse food. We were on it for 30 days this spring  I ended up ordering the kids filet and veggies as it beat out all the other cuts of meat. I did discuss this with the executive chef who we got to know.  I complimented the buffet and it’s themed offerings but the MDR was not good. He was gracious with our comments and stated he was working on it. I have decided I cruise for all the other fun things and not the food. I have been on several different lines and they all have problems but this was by far the worst.