Large cruise ship ban in Venice June 2020

[minikiss]

Last week I read somewhere the ban is finally going to come in to force in Venice.

I can't say I blame them and it's been talked about for a few years now.

We have sailed from there twice already and have spent a long weekend there so i'm ok with it. I really can't blame them.......

But next year we are on the Celebrity Infinity with my family in tow.

None of them has ever been to Venice and it was one of the bonuses of booking this over others.

Not only does it start in Venice,  it over nights to, i'll be gutted if it docks else where and we have to be ferried in to see anything.

 

Can anyone on here shed any light on what ships it effects as from the details of what was and didn't happen already it looks like we may be ok. IE we will still dock in the original terminals.

All I seem to be able to find out is details put out in August that said ships bigger than a certain size will be moved and I think Infinity is under that tonnage.

 

As yet I have not heard anything from Celebrity or my TA about it.

 

many thanks in advance - Jules

  

[CruiserBruce]

Has been discussed here many times:

 

There is absolutely no indication it will be in force when you get there. Yes, they seem to be making some progress, but it is very, very slow, and, no real likelihood it will be in effect next summer at all. 

 

We will be there in June. We are not expecting any changes. They don't have the time to make all the changes required to make it work.

[minikiss]

It may have been discussed before and I know they have been limiting the numbers docking but i'm talking about a report that is more recent. ie 4 days ago.

found the article in the end it was in the Express.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1200985/venice-italy-tourism-cruise-ships-europe-holiday-news

it does says it's "temporary" but will come in to force in April next year.

 

I was wondering if anyone else had seen or heard anything about it.

It talks about mainland docking as an alternative which is miles away.

 

Jules  

[euro cruiser]

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  First, there's nothing you can do, but more importantly these things never seem to happen on schedule.  Anywhere, not just Italy.  How many deadlines have there been for Brexit?

[CruiserBruce]

13 minutes ago, minikiss said:

It may have been discussed before and I know they have been limiting the numbers docking but i'm talking about a report that is more recent. ie 4 days ago.

found the article in the end it was in the Express.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1200985/venice-italy-tourism-cruise-ships-europe-holiday-news

it does says it's "temporary" but will come in to force in April next year.

 

I was wondering if anyone else had seen or heard anything about it.

It talks about mainland docking as an alternative which is miles away.

 

Jules  

Note the story says "large" cruise ships. There has been some restrictions on those (greater than 95k tons, I believe) for awhile. Maybe they are pushing those a little more. By the way, the link requires cookies and similar. 

 

I totally agree with euro cruiser.

[minikiss]

9 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Note the story says "large" cruise ships. There has been some restrictions on those (greater than 95k tons, I believe) for awhile. Maybe they are pushing those a little more. By the way, the link requires cookies and similar. 

 

I totally agree with euro cruiser.

Sorry about the cookies.....

here is the article copied.

So far this is all can find on the matter.

 

Tourism crackdown: Venice to ban large cruise ships in bid to save city

VENICE will ban large cruise ships from entering its historic centre from April 2020, in a desperate attempt to save the ancient city’s image. Italy's transport minister announced that large ships would no longer be able to pass through the Grand Canal by the famous Piazza San Marco square, however she said it was only a "temporary solution" to the city's tourism woes.

Paola De Micheli, Minister of Transport and Infrastructure, said: "We are working to remove large cruise ships from San Marco by April 2020.
"The solution is not simple, but must be fast, taking into account environmental factors, nautical traffic and economic consequences".

She claimed technicians had assessed "all the available material from 2017" and concluded "a definitive solution will come.
"Times are tight, so we will go towards a temporary solution, while we evaluate the definitive one later, also regarding the economic resources to invest".
In August, the city began limiting the number of cruise ships allowed to enter the city's historic centre.
The move marked a victory for residents fed up with living in a city overwhelmed by tourists and huge ships.

Locals have long complained the enormous ships ruin the beauty of Venice's historic sights and pollute the waters.
However tourism is Venice's main economic activity, with 30 million people visiting each year, many of them from the more than 600 cruise ships that anchor in the lagoon.
In June, a 900ft ship collided with a dock and a small tourist boat in the city's Giudecca canal - one of Venice's most important waterways - injuring five people.
The incident revived protests against the ships and calls from residents to ban them altogether.

The move to ban ships is not the only effort Venice is making to crackdown on its tourism problems.
From July 2020, day-trippers will be slapped with a fee that will be used for the upkeep of the city and to "improve the quality of life of residents'.
All tourists arriving by plane, water taxi, cruise ship, trains or coach who are not intending to stay overnight will have to pay €3 (£2.70) during the low season and €8 (£7.20) during the high season.
If visiting during “critical” periods including summer weekends, they will have to pay €10 (£8.90) to access the World Heritage site which encompasses the city centre and islands of the Venice Lagoon.  

The city came under fire as officials issued fines and exclusion orders in a "draconian" big to clamp down on "anti-social behaviour" such as urinating or sunbathing in public.
This summer saw police hand out 100 fines to tourists in two months, including a woman being forced to pay €250 (£224) for sunbathing in a bikini.
In September two Czech men were fined around €3,000 (£2,690) when police came across them skinny dipping in a canal near Piazza San Marco.  
And a German couple caught making themselves coffee on a portable stove were given a €892 (£800) fine.

 

From the way I read it,  it will be coming in, back in June when the ship crashed in to the dock,  I said then that is a nail in the coffin for cruise ships.

I do think that the Infinity is classed more of a mid ship size and not a large one so i'm hoping the it's not one of the ships that will be banned. But agree if it does it does but I will be gutted for the others sailing with me.  My sis has already said she will not get off if she has to be "taken" to the main place of interest. So if it means we are docked on the mainland she won't see any of it. First cruise and I don't want her to stick to just the ship for 7 days. Plus I want to be able to show her Venice at night.

[cruisemom42]

I realize it is a frustrating situation -- for everyone.  No one really knows what to expect at this point.

 

Officials in Venice actually announced right after the MSC Opera crashing into the dock/river cruiser last year that they would be severely limiting the size of ships that would be allowed to sail down the Giudecca canal and into the Marittima cruise port where most cruise ships currently dock. 

 

The problem is that there is no clear agreement on what Plan A should be to accomplish this. Plan A is likely to be a long-term fix and as others have said it will not be implemented immediately. It will also likely involve ships NOT docking in Venice proper, but elsewhere.

 

However, I think there is considerable agitation to do something over the situation, which has become untenable in the last few years with large numbers of cruise ships regularly visiting Venice throughout the Med season. For this reason, I believe they are looking for a way to at least temporarily divert ships down an alternate path (rather than right through Venice); one that may still allow them to dock at Marittima port.  The Italian powers-that-be are not known for acting quickly -- but in this case it's hardly "quickly" -- as noted, there have been studies underway on this problem for several years already.

 

I took a look through recently published Italian news on this subject and found almost exact duplicate of the story you posted above (without the droll material on the recent fines) but with an added paragraph about re-dredging some canals through the lagoon -- which I think supports this view of an alternate plan still including the ability to dock AT Venice.

 

I'd be cautious regarding any assumptions on ship size -- some of the reports from a few months ago were talking of banning all cruise ships except those that are quite small. I cannot remember the exact size, but certainly it included ships of Infinity's size in the ban.

 

Long story short -- I'm pretty sure there is no official pronouncement yet about what WILL happen in 2020 once the cruise season gets underway, but there is a desire to do something. 

 

If it comes to pass I hope your sister will get over her fit of pique. It's for the good and the future preservation of Venice that these changes are needed. And by the way, if your ship calls at Livorno, it's a 90-minute bus ride to Florence. At Civitavecchia, it's a bit over an hour by car to Rome. So if these ports of call are on your sailing, sis may indeed spend most of her cruise on the ship.

[minikiss]

thanks cruisemom42.

For now i'll be keeping an eye on what happens if any.

Luckily for us no we are not going to Livorno this time, I have several times though so know about the long drive. yep she would not go to Florence but I probably would get her to walk around the town if I paid for the shuttle fare. I have to say I do enjoy getting off there and going nowhere. .

We get off in Civitavecchia so no worries there.

We do stop in Naples, Kotor, Split and Corfu.

I'm crossing my fingers that if something does come of it we aren't effected to much.

I'd already promised the kids a ride on the people mover and ice cream..... As well as showing them around in the dark.

[Trevor Fountain]

A little off topic, but Venice is really suffering severe floods right now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50401308

[dogs4fun]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:39 AM, cruisemom42 said:

It's for the good and the future preservation of Venice that these changes are needed.

Agree - and, should this change be implemented in the near future,  it is a very short ride via train or taxi into VCE - definitely not the longer trips one would encounter to get to Rome (Civi) or Florence (Livorno).

Edited November 13, 2019 by dogs4fun

[ano]

I was in Venice in September. This is a "low" time of year, and it was perfect weather. I was on a land tour, not a cruise ship. It was so crowded, it was hard to move. Crowds were so overwhelming, I would never want to go back. Now with the flooding getting worse, It doesn't look good for the future. Sad.

[dogs4fun]

23 hours ago, Trevor Fountain said:

A little off topic, but Venice is really suffering severe floods right now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50401308

Yes, also saw this on the news last evening. Such a pity.

[steamboats]

Wow, that article is... very well researched... I´ve never seen a cruise ship passing through the Grand Canal (Canal Grande). They go through the Guidecca Canal.

 

Plans are there for years but there´s still a lot of opposition against every kind of plan. And each plan requires some kind of construction work and planning.

 

I´ve never heard a complaint regarding the pollution of water by any cruise ships. The complaints are about air pollution but not the water.

 

steamboats

 

 

[chipmaster]

Will be a sad over response, my sail in/outs were epic, will miss it if they cancel it

[minikiss]

Agree having sailed from myself it's quite something to see, will be a shame if they ban it, but I do agree they need to do something. Worse still has been the floods they are under right now, the sooner they get those defences finished to help more the better. 

[steamboats]

The current flooding has nothing to do with the cruise ships. And the "Moses" defence is not blocking any ships from going in (o.k., only when it´s up but then the ships won´t dock there anyway).

 

steamboats

[CruiseMH]

As long as there is not enough space for cruise ships on the mainland port side they have to let them pass through canale grande. Cause this is the only way they can reach the curent used port (stazione maritima) That was exactly the reason why the last time the court did declare their ban for void. There must be a way to reach stazione maritima.

The landside port facilities can only accomodate one or max. 2 cruise ships as per my info.

And building an alternative route or building suitable docking facilities on the land side will take 2-5 years.

 

[Trevor Fountain]

58 minutes ago, CruiseMH said:

As long as there is not enough space for cruise ships on the mainland port side they have to let them pass through canale grande. Cause this is the only way they can reach the curent used port (stazione maritima) That was exactly the reason why the last time the court did declare their ban for void. There must be a way to reach stazione maritima.

The landside port facilities can only accomodate one or max. 2 cruise ships as per my info.

And building an alternative route or building suitable docking facilities on the land side will take 2-5 years.

 

Really? How do they fit under the Rialto Bridge, to name but one?

[steamboats]

10 hours ago, CruiseMH said:

As long as there is not enough space for cruise ships on the mainland port side they have to let them pass through canale grande.

Nope, no cruise ship ever passed through the Canal Grande... it´s the Guidecca Canal.

 

steamboats

[CruiseMH]

Ooops,of course you are right.I meant that big canal,but it is of course guidecca canal.

But this is still the only option to get to stazione maritima.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, CruiseMH said:

Ooops,of course you are right.I meant that big canal,but it is of course guidecca canal.

But this is still the only option to get to stazione maritima.

 

 

 

As clearly shown in the image below, there IS another way that cruise ships could reach Marittima port, by taking the long way around:

 

[CruiseMH]

Are you sure that it is already suitable for cruise ships? I have something in mind that this route is not deep enough at the moment.It would be an idea for the future but currently is not an option.(as per my info)

 

 

[steamboats]

The Malamocco-Marghera Channel (or Canale dei Petroli) is already used by cargo ships. But it´s one way only. Traffic has to wait until they get a slot to go in or out.

 

The Vittorio Emanuele III Channel is not navigable for any larger ships. They have to dig it out first and that´s the part environmentalist oppose to. There´s another channel called Contorta Sant´Angelo as an alternative to the Vittorio Emanuele III Channel but that one has to be digged out too and has been skipped.

 

Those were the plans in 2017 - the plans were talking about a 4 year time period until it´s finished. So far nothing has happened at all.

 

steamboats

[Keasel]

Here's an article explaining the issues regarding dreading the Vittorio Emanuele III channel.

 

 

 

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/analysis/where-does-cruise-ship-crash-leave-venice

 

Luigi Brugnaro, the mayor of Venice, and Luca Zaia, the president of the Veneto region, both support an alternative route for the cruise ships to enter the port of Venice, which is via the disused Vittorio Emanuele III channel. There is no doubt that this incident reinforces their position. “It is no longer conceivable that big ships sail down the Giudecca canal. We ask for the immediate opening of the Vittorio Emanuele”, tweeted Brugnaro.

In November 2017, the previous government announced a solution to the problem of how to bring cruise ships to the port in Venice without sailing through the city. They would enter through the southernmost opening from the sea into the lagoon and sail down the Malamocco channel. Those above 96,000 tonnes would moor at the industrial port of Marghera on the inside shore of the lagoon, and passengers would be brought into Venice by ferries, 300 at a time. Medium-sized ships (tonnage undefined) would also go down the Malamocco channel, but then turn right down the Vittorio Emanuele III channel to get to the port in Venice.

For this to happen, the Vittorio Emanuele III will need to be dredged from its existing depth of six metres to nine metres, while the Malamocco-Marghera channel will have to be widened to accommodate the 1000 or so extra sailings, because industrial and cruise traffic will be competing for space. 

This will be very damaging to the lagoon, accelerating the flushing of sediment from the lagoon bed into the Adriatic sea with every low tide, and eroding the sandbanks and mudflats that reduce the impact of exceptional flooding events.

 

[BarbinMich]

St. Mark's recently

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by BarbinMich