How bad was the Norovirus on the Joy?

[newmexicoNita]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:41 PM, bluebelt said:

OP I hope you don’t mind me piggybacking off of your questions.  We leave on the Joy on Sunday and just got a message boarding is delayed which leads me to believe Noro May still be onboard and another deep cleaning is necessary.  Is anyone on the current cruise?  Is Noro still onboard?

We were on the Pearl about 3 years ago when they had experienced a really  bad breakout the sailing before. It was so bad that when we got to the port they have us an option to cancel the cruise with full refund.I don't have any idea if anyone took them up on the offer. Even after we boarded all the normal precautions   were put into place: no touching of anything, even menus being cleaned after each handling. there was no salt and pepper shakers available, no touching of anything in the buffet and on and on. Still some did come down with noro. If I remember correctly the following sailing had absolutely no breakout. Luckily we have never had a problem personally. 

 

Good luck and just be careful to clean your hands as often as possible Better to over do than under do Don't shake hands with anyone either. That is the best you can do 

 

And be assured NCL does everything in their power to keep us all healthy and handles the noro cases in a professional way, as well as making the passengers aware of the problem with out putting the fear of Go in everyone. I am sure all the cruise lines do the same. 

[newmexicoNita]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:57 PM, buckeyefrank said:

You realize you can get noro from literally everywhere, right?  It doesn't have to be on a cruise ship.

Very true; it is probably  what we called stomach flu years ago and it is more likely to pick it up from flying or even is schools. Too many do not understand these germs are everywhere. It would never dawn on me not to cruise during certain months because of the noro virus. 

[jaja]

On 11/28/2019 at 3:23 PM, IrieBajan54 said:

Doesn't matter if the crew sanitizes 24 hrs a day, the elephant is the room is the cell phone. Passengers use them in the restroom and maybe pick and scratch everywhere. Intermittently using their phones at the meal table,  people reach into the bread basket and also handle the salt & pepper shakers. Hard to stop noro from spreading that way.

 

You have a very valid point.  

[robeis]

I'm currently on the Joy and I am just getting over what I suspect was a bout with Noro.  Once I vomited i started to feel better.  overall it was  24 to 36 hour ordeal.  They were constantly sanitizing and there was no self service of any kind. I constantly washed my hands and used hand sanitizer.  I used my knuckle and fist to push buttons and someone saw me do this and declared that I was officially a germaphobe.  Despite all of the efforts and precautions, I still got it somehow so just be advised that when there is an outbreak like this, you could get it regardless of precautions. We were a large group of 15 people and three of us so far have been affected.

 

Good luck if you are on the next cruise.

[winnifer]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:03 PM, bluebelt said:

Of course I know I can get it anywhere but it spreads faster in a confined space on a cruise ship.  I plan on bringing hospital grade wipes to wipe down the room.  I know how to take precautions.  I really just want to know if there are still a lot of people coming down with it on the current cruise?  Do they sanitize the cruise terminal after  the cruise as well?

 

I'm also bringing hospital-grade wipes for our stateroom (Sani-Cloth with Chlorine, yellow label, which is the one that kills Norovirus, and some with the purple label which are also powerful) and regular sanitizing wipes to keep in my pocket just in case. I'm far from a germaphobe, but I do want to be safe, and from work I'm used to wiping down surfaces around me. 

 

I don't have room for the entire containers in my suitcase, so I'm fully expecting that my labeled ziploc baggies with printouts of the labels will give TSA pause! 😂

[ray98]

Most people seem to think Noro is just a problem on cruise ships.  The difference is a cruise ship gives you a captive audience so you can see the overall outcome.  People contract Noro, or what some mis-identify as food poisoning or a simple 'stomach bug' everyday from public places.  That could be your local restaurant, the mall, a grocery store or a million other public places.  The difference is all those people disperse to their various homes and think they are the only one who is sick because they can't see the big picture.

 

Just take normal precautions.  No point in living in a bubble out of fear.

[cruisinmeme]

On 11/27/2019 at 8:55 AM, LaCal said:

Sanitizing things in your cabin like the TV remote, and areas in the bathroom like faucets etc that the steward may of overlooked in cleaning or not used a Noro virus killing cleaner will help in case there’s still germs in the cabin from the past guest 

 

 

I always feel it is just an added layer of protection.  We have no control of anything outside our cabin but i always clean the cabin thoroughly.

[Gimmiethebeach]

On 11/28/2019 at 9:27 AM, jaja said:

Thanks.  I may have missed it , but what is your advice re: what PAX should do or use ?  I value your advice as always. 

The CDC website will lead you to the EPA website which gives a list of what will kill norovirus.  It basically comes down to alcohol does not kill it so you need bleach or hydrogen peroxide based products.  Hospital grade probably guarantees it will kill it but I'm just going off what I've read on the EPA website.  Most hand sanitizers are alcohol based.  I'm on the 12/15 sailing so I'm reading as much as I can find on this!

[smplybcause]

On 11/28/2019 at 7:19 AM, kenzie said:

Thank you for your input but we can only do our best and buy what is available to consumers, they may not have satisfied the FDA but my have used it on two cruises (6 people travelling) which were suffering an outbreak and we were lucky not to get ill, not one of us. This may be a co-incidence but when I board the Joy in January I will be carrying this and using it constantly. 

 

Definitely coincidence. Alcohol does not kill norovirus. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/5-things-you-didn-t-know-about-nasty-stomach-flu-n714241

[Phillygirl1807]

I am scheduled to board the Norwegian Joy on January 5 for a cruise to the Mexican Riviera. I just ordered the Germstar Noro Sanitizer recommended by several cruisers. I also have Clorox wipes that I plan to take with me. I admit to being nervous about this cruise and this ship. It's the largest one we've ever sailed on.

 

I called Norwegian after the first Joy breakout. They wouldn't specify their cleaning methods. Maybe they will be more thorough after this additional breakout. But I also agree that some passengers may come aboard already sick with colds or flu as well as with a stomach virus. I will come prepared with medicine for diarrhea and flu-like symptoms. We are staying on the concierge level, and plan to take advantage of the smaller venue for breakfast and lunch. We have reservations for the speciality restaurants, too. Our cruise port activities are with small, independent companies. Hoping for the best, but concerned about this being a continuous problem for the Joy.

[herdingdogmom]

Just saw two reports about the cruise ending today on the local news.  A CBS reporter interviewed passengers.  The people interviewed were ok now, but very ill during the cruise.  One said the onboard Dr. who treated his son said 75-80 had Noro and were quarantined.  The reporter said 10 people disembarking said they still had symptoms but declined medical treatment.

 

NCL told the reporter they had implemented stringent cleaning and serving measures on the ship and were again doing a deep clean before the ship left for the next cruise.  Also reported was that a LA councilman had contacted the CDC because of concerns of it being spread in the San Pedro area.

 

 

[davencl]

 There are roughly 20 million cases of noro virus per year in the US so no surprise it's brought onto ships.  I will be taking extra precaution now given the history.  I wonder if the issue is more where the ship sails from rather than the ship itself.

[chloemonkey]

We were on the 11/24/ sailing and were late to board and we had received notice the day before or so...but the reason given was that there was a full immigration thing for disembarking passengers.  But as we all arrived at the port - word quickly got around that there had been an outbreak and we saw the various news reporting trucks/vans.  There was such a back log due to the noro issues and the expanded immigration thing that I have never had such an awful embarkation process....and we were all in the Haven.

As to the noro thing.....first of all there were NO snacks in the terminal....gloves everywhere on the crew members - so we knew what we were in for as this was not our first noro cruise.....As the week went on, we just got tired of the fact that you had to ask for salt and pepper at each meal since no salt and pepper shakers were on the table so as not to be shared.  Instead you were handed those little paper packets.  Not a big deal but when you have to ask each time and then wait until they brought them back to you....it took time.  And the entire week EVERYTHING took way too much time as I am sure that the ship was very short handed due to crew members being ill as well.  I have never seen waiters have to wait on and be responsible for so many tables.  At one point one child even managed to have a bowel movement in the Haven pool......so that was closed down for a day in order to drain, disinfect etc.......every time that you left your cabin - the outside of your door was wet and soapy as they were constantly soaping them down.  Each chair in the Haven restaurant was completely sprayed and wiped down after EACH GUEST finished their meal.  Buffet service took forever ( I did NOT go to the buffet at all but heard from my son in laws) as you had to wait to be handed a plate, then wait to ask for each item as no one was allowed to serve themselves.....just small things but they added up to making this a very tedious trip for sure.

If we wanted ice in our ice buckets - we had to call and ask as they were not allowed to bring ice and just leave it in your cabins.  No robes in the suites.....it took them 2-3 days to even get the glasses in the suite bar areas and another day to get glasses in the bathrooms......We witnessed crew members in Hazmat suits in Cagneys at dinner totally stripping a table and putting everything into a biohazard large bag and as we were two tables away - we were not certain what was going on but could guess......and our suspicions were confirmed when guests sitting adjacent to this table later told us in the casino that someone had vomited all over the table and due to the contagious noro thing going on - this was how all such incidents were being handled.

It took them well into the evening on the first night to even the the beds made up as I guess they were doing all of the bedding from top to bottom......and then even little things like when you walked into the beautiful venues like the Haven Restaurant or Le Bistro - it was underwhelming to see tables with NOTHING on them....so crystal glasses , china etc....No flower arrangements.....NOTHING!  Only when they brought your food was there a thing on the tables.  And again this morning - we had paper cups in our bathrooms and not glasses.....not sure if we were going downhill again in terms of contagiousness or what.....

We did count a total of 12 ambulances lined up when we walked off of the ship and I am not sure how many people were transported but one EMT told one of my daughters when she asked why there were so many ambulances - that we had a LOT of sick people on our ship......so although we will probably never know the real numbers?  We feel lucky that we all made it through without getting sick.  We were also told that they had NOT had as many issues in the Haven the previous week?  So maybe since we spent a lot of our time there - that helped.  One of my daughters didn't even want to venture OUT of the Haven as she felt that we were less likely to get sick in there.....but we all wanted to eat at our favorite specialty places and realize that you can only do so much to be safe....

I was NOT a fan of this ship - with or without the Noro thing.  The casino was absolutely awful - I would say that 75% of the slots were the original chinese themed ones and the explaination buttons were even in chinese......on a ship of over 4000 passengers - there were 12-14 Video Poker machines....and many of these double as Keno games....to getting a machine to play Video Poker was a joke.  I am Elite Status with CAS and think that I only racked up around 4000 points this entire trip.  

The layout of the ship seemed "tight"....I am not saying that I would not cruise on the Joy if the itinerary were right....but after our disappointing Breakaway trip last month and now this one.....I am happy that our next two cruises have been booked with Oceania to try something different.

And I hope that those of you that boarded today stay well!  Wash your hands....and pray that no one poops in the pool or vomits on the dinner table.....geesh.....what a week!  I have never spent SO much money (we had 5 Haven suites) to have such a strange vacation.  But again, glad we are all  back home and healthy......and will chalk it up to an experience.  Prayers again  to those getting on the ship today as I really do not think that anyone knows exactly how to stop this thing once it gets going.  At one point we were told that no one was vacuuming as they were not sure that it was unable to spread through the air?  I wish I could remember all of the "strange" remarks and happenings over this past week.  OH!  At one point there was a family in the Haven that was revolting/mutiny?  As they were insisting that the roof over the Haven pool should be opened to allow fresh air in.....I wished that they would have too....but it never happened.  They also said that if the roof were NOT opened - that they were all going to take their children to the 18 and older deck of the Haven as there was not enough room in the hot tub downstairs to fit all of the children on board....did I mention over 1100 kids this week???

Really wish that I would have taken notes!  Good luck to those embarking today.....at least you got to get onboard on time!  We didn't leave until 6:00 or so???

[FitchburgWIFamily]

We are just off the Joy today.   I’ll try to do a more detailed review, but I’ll take time to clarify a few things.

 

The previous cruise had to go through full immigration and customs inspection instead of the normal procedure in part because it was not a closed loop cruise.  According to our Porter today it took an hour and a half to get through the Immigration lines last week compared to the 10 or 15 minutes it took today. The inspection today is just a matter of handing over your passports and Immigration compares picture to you.  Last week each person needed to be looked up on the immigration system like the more formal immigration at the airport.  
 

As embarking passengers we were advised to get to the port later because of thie immigration check.  We got there at 12:30 ( a half hour earlier than we were told to ) and had to wait in line for porters to be available to take our bags. 

 

As for the noro, yes, if you sail on a noro cruise it is going to be different.  No menus are reused, no menu folders.  No condiments.  No snack mix in the bars.  No reusing pens.  No handling the merchandise in the stores: a clerk holds up the item for you to see instead of digging through stacks of bargains.

 And yes, they can’t vacuum.  When you vacuum in one room and then in the next, dust can get from one room to the other and with that dust can be germs.

 

No games or books in cabinets.   Surfaces are visually cloudy with residue from the cleaning solution.

 

And yes, the ship might feel short staffed, not because the crew is ill, but because there is no extra crew to bring on to do the safety protocols. Every crew member just needs to work that much harder. There’s so much more cleaning and sanitizing that goes on. The poor room stewards worked almost around the clock trying to keep the cabins clean.

All of this is done to keep us as passengers safe.   It never occurred to us to complain about any of the inconveniences because it was so obvious everyone was doing their best.

 

 

[kenzie]

On 12/1/2019 at 2:56 AM, Gimmiethebeach said:

The CDC website will lead you to the EPA website which gives a list of what will kill norovirus.  It basically comes down to alcohol does not kill it so you need bleach or hydrogen peroxide based products.  Hospital grade probably guarantees it will kill it but I'm just going off what I've read on the EPA website.  Most hand sanitizers are alcohol based.  I'm on the 12/15 sailing so I'm reading as much as I can find on this!

So if you find a product that does work, can you post details - the more people who buy it and use it on the cruises the less it will spread. 

[kenzie]

8 minutes ago, kenzie said:

So if you find a product that does work, can you post details - the more people who buy it and use it on the cruises the less it will spread. 

Also - from the CDC website "

What about alcohol-based hand sanitizers?

• CDC recommends that cruise ship passengers use warm water and soap to wash their hands. Washing is always best.
• If water and soap are NOT available (perhaps on excursions), use an ethanol alcohol-based hand sanitizer, preferably in a gel form. The sanitizer should be at least 60% ethanol." 

So I will obviously be washing my hands but also be using my alcohol based hand spray as an extra precaution - can not do any harm and may help 

 

[kenzie]

On 12/1/2019 at 3:10 AM, smplybcause said:

 

Definitely coincidence. Alcohol does not kill norovirus. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/5-things-you-didn-t-know-about-nasty-stomach-flu-n714241

from CDC Website "

What about alcohol-based hand sanitizers?

• CDC recommends that cruise ship passengers use warm water and soap to wash their hands. Washing is always best.
• If water and soap are NOT available (perhaps on excursions), use an ethanol alcohol-based hand sanitizer, preferably in a gel form. The sanitizer should be at least 60% ethanol." 

Obviously I will wash hands in first place but also use the hand sprays as what harm can it do -if only but try 

[smplybcause]

8 minutes ago, kenzie said:

from CDC Website "

What about alcohol-based hand sanitizers?

• CDC recommends that cruise ship passengers use warm water and soap to wash their hands. Washing is always best.
• If water and soap are NOT available (perhaps on excursions), use an ethanol alcohol-based hand sanitizer, preferably in a gel form. The sanitizer should be at least 60% ethanol." 

Obviously I will wash hands in first place but also use the hand sprays as what harm can it do -if only but try 

 

Never said to not use hand sanitizers. They're certainly better than nothing, and do kill some germs. But it does not kill norovirus - which is what the product that the poster I quote alluded to even though the active ingredient was just alcohol. Which, again, does not kill norovirus. 

[dexddd]

Thanks Chloe and Fitch for details.  Saw it on news today.

 

Chloe, I think I sense your feeling about the ship.  We sailed BA and it just wasn't very good for many reasons.

 

Escape we had a great time.  On that trip we too had a kid leave gift in Haven pool making it unavailable the last 24 hours.  Where are the parents?

[kenzie]

21 hours ago, smplybcause said:

 

Never said to not use hand sanitizers. They're certainly better than nothing, and do kill some germs. But it does not kill norovirus - which is what the product that the poster I quote alluded to even though the active ingredient was just alcohol. Which, again, does not kill norovirus. 

Thank you for your helpful responses- do you know what does kill norovirus then

 

[smplybcause]

4 hours ago, kenzie said:

Thank you for your helpful responses- do you know what does kill norovirus then

 

 

The articles I've seen mention bleach and hydrogen peroxide. Neither of which you really want to put on your skin - those are more for surface cleaning (so if you bring wipes make sure they have some bleach in them to do a really good job!). Hands wise everything I've seen is the best bet is to wash - properly - with soap and water often. The whole at least 20 seconds while making sure to cover all parts of your hands. NCL has handwashing stations at the buffet that aren't often used.