Resumption of NCL Hawaii Cruises with the Return of Tourism to Hawaii?

[Smokeyham]

I am wondering if NCL's Pride of America might be able to resume cruising around the Hawaiian Islands when tourism is allowed to restart in Hawaii on August 1, as was recently announced?  Visitors will need to have passed a Covid test in advance of flying to Hawaii, but once on board this will seem no different from other tourists who are travelling in the islands.

I see that NCL has Hawaiian cruises listed on their website starting October 3.

 

What do you think?  Are these likely to occur?  

[Georgia_Peaches]

I don't know the status of the crew on the POA or if the ship would be operational by August.  Seems doubtful to me but it would certainly be a good way to test the waters, so to speak.  

 

And then there's the CDC issue and the color coding as it relates to the status of the ship.  Lots of hurdles to jump.  Gotta start somewhere, though.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Georgia_Peaches

[Smokeyham]

17 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I don't know the status of the crew on the POA or if the ship would be operational by August.  Seems doubtful to me but it would certainly be a good way to test the waters, so to speak.  

 

And then there's the CDC issue and the color coding as it relates to the status of the ship.  Lots of hurdles to jump.  Gotta start somewhere, though.

Good points..... The NCL website does not list any Hawaii cruises until October 3, so if permission is given for cruises to resume then NCL would have time to reassemble a crew for the Pride of America.  

[HaveWeMetYet]

1 hour ago, Smokeyham said:

I am wondering if NCL's Pride of America might be able to resume cruising around the Hawaiian Islands when tourism is allowed to restart in Hawaii on August 1, as was recently announced?  Visitors will need to have passed a Covid test in advance of flying to Hawaii, but once on board this will seem no different from other tourists who are travelling in the islands.

I see that NCL has Hawaiian cruises listed on their website starting October 3.

 

What do you think?  Are these likely to occur?  

Not likely to anywhere before October 3rd.

[Smokeyham]

17 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

Not likely to anywhere before October 3rd.

Yes, October 3rd is the first date that NCL has listed on their website.   It will be interesting to see if this cruise occurs.   One factor will be whether or not the  CDC has modified, or lifted, the "No Sail" order.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Smokeyham

[Diver2014]

We're on the Nov 14th POA cruise--final payment due in 2 weeks so we're going to pay then hope and pray.

[Smokeyham]

25 minutes ago, Diver2014 said:

We're on the Nov 14th POA cruise--final payment due in 2 weeks so we're going to pay then hope and pray.

If you feel up to it, could you post updates back here on how that is going?  Hopefully you will be able to enjoy your cruise!

[billyu]

I can't see the CDC lifting or letting the no sail order expire.  I'm guessing it will be extended for another 100 days given the current daily rise in cases.  

[Crazy planning mom]

7 hours ago, billyu said:

I can't see the CDC lifting or letting the no sail order expire.  I'm guessing it will be extended for another 100 days given the current daily rise in cases.  

Couldn't the CDC extend the no sail date for a shorter period say 60 days and then they would have option to renew again or let the order lapse?

[chengkp75]

In actual fact, the CDC has no jurisdiction over the POA, since the cruises are strictly within the state of Hawaii, and CDC has jurisdiction over travel from abroad or interstate travel, only.  POA was shut down by the Hawaiian state shutdown.  The CDC no sail order does not cover POA.  However, what requirements that the state makes for a cruise ship to carry passengers is unknown, and whether they will follow the CDC requirements in the no sail order is also unknown.

 

The POA is not even subject to USPH/CDC inspections like other cruise ships.  Being a US flag vessel, on a completely domestic voyage, it falls under the FDA for their ship sanitation program.

Edited June 29, 2020 by chengkp75

[All-ready2cruise]

If it were me, I'd be checking with Hawaii gov't and gohawaii.com for info on their tourism plans.  I checked the tourism site and it includes some info on cruises.  

😉

[zqvol]

17 hours ago, Smokeyham said:

I am wondering if NCL's Pride of America might be able to resume cruising around the Hawaiian Islands when tourism is allowed to restart in Hawaii on August 1, as was recently announced?  Visitors will need to have passed a Covid test in advance of flying to Hawaii, but once on board this will seem no different from other tourists who are travelling in the islands.

I see that NCL has Hawaiian cruises listed on their website starting October 3.

 

What do you think?  Are these likely to occur?  

It all depends on what the CDC says. It won't be up to NCL or the State of Hawaii.

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, zqvol said:

It all depends on what the CDC says. It won't be up to NCL or the State of Hawaii.

Not really.  The CDC does not have jurisdiction over a US flag vessel doing domestic voyages, as noted above.  It will definitely be up to the state of Hawaii.  As noted above, the USPH/CDC has absolutely no jurisdiction over the POA, not even on ship sanitation program.

[njhorseman]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

In actual fact, the CDC has no jurisdiction over the POA, since the cruises are strictly within the state of Hawaii, and CDC has jurisdiction over travel from abroad or interstate travel, only.  POA was shut down by the Hawaiian state shutdown.  The CDC no sail order does not cover POA.  However, what requirements that the state makes for a cruise ship to carry passengers is unknown, and whether they will follow the CDC requirements in the no sail order is also unknown.

 

The POA is not even subject to USPH/CDC inspections like other cruise ships.  Being a US flag vessel, on a completely domestic voyage, it falls under the FDA for their ship sanitation program.

 My reading of the No Sail Order leads me to believe it does apply to POA as it would appear to fit all the conditions in the order's Applicability :

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

 

"Applicability

This Modification and Extension of No Sail Order and Other Measures Related to Operations shall apply only to the subset of carriers [1] described below and hereinafter referred to as “cruise ships:”

All commercial, non-cargo,[2] passenger-carrying vessels operating in international, interstate, or intrastate waterways and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States with the capacity to carry 250 [3] or more individuals (passengers and crew) with an itinerary anticipating an overnight stay onboard or a twenty-four (24) hour stay onboard for either passengers or crew.[4]

This Order shall additionally apply to any cruise ship that was previously excluded from the March 14, 2020 Order, by virtue of having voluntarily suspended operations.

“Operations” for purposes of this Order means any action by a cruise ship operator to bring or cause a cruise ship to be brought into or transit in or between any international, interstate, or intrastate waterways (e.g., shifting berths, moving to anchor, discharging waste, making port, or embarking or disembarking passengers or crew) subject to the jurisdiction of the United States."

 

Nor do I see anything in the original order dated March 14 that would exclude POA.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/signed-manifest-order_031520.pdf

 

Please advise what i may be missing in my reading of the orders...which specifically apply to the operation of cruise ships in intrastate waterways, in addition to interstate and international waterways that are subject US jurisdiction.

 

I believe you're interpreting the orders to be limited to those ships that fall under the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program, but I'm not convinced that's the case.

[dumbth]

Today I saw in local HI news that Princess has newly scheduled some HI stopovers starting 10/20. It was one of the first optimistic travel signs I have seen in the HI press, which is mostly depicting gov't alarm over only a score of hospital cases out of a million residents. Not sure how certain the port reopening is.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

 My reading of the No Sail Order leads me to believe it does apply to POA as it would appear to fit all the conditions in the order's Applicability :

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

 

"Applicability

This Modification and Extension of No Sail Order and Other Measures Related to Operations shall apply only to the subset of carriers [1] described below and hereinafter referred to as “cruise ships:”

All commercial, non-cargo,[2] passenger-carrying vessels operating in international, interstate, or intrastate waterways and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States with the capacity to carry 250 [3] or more individuals (passengers and crew) with an itinerary anticipating an overnight stay onboard or a twenty-four (24) hour stay onboard for either passengers or crew.[4]

This Order shall additionally apply to any cruise ship that was previously excluded from the March 14, 2020 Order, by virtue of having voluntarily suspended operations.

“Operations” for purposes of this Order means any action by a cruise ship operator to bring or cause a cruise ship to be brought into or transit in or between any international, interstate, or intrastate waterways (e.g., shifting berths, moving to anchor, discharging waste, making port, or embarking or disembarking passengers or crew) subject to the jurisdiction of the United States."

 

Nor do I see anything in the original order dated March 14 that would exclude POA.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/signed-manifest-order_031520.pdf

 

Please advise what i may be missing in my reading of the orders...which specifically apply to the operation of cruise ships in intrastate waterways, in addition to interstate and international waterways that are subject US jurisdiction.

 

I believe you're interpreting the orders to be limited to those ships that fall under the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program, but I'm not convinced that's the case.

The no sail order is to set requirements for ships to gain "pratique", which is clearance to enter the US from foreign.  Since the POA does not venture outside the US (always within the 200 nautical mile "Exclusive Economic Zone"), nor does it transit from one state to another, the CDC has no jurisdiction, any more than the CDC has any jurisdiction over what measures a state or city decides to follow regarding covid.

 

The original order mentions, on page 6, that in accordance with 42 USC Sections 264 & 268, the following requirements are to be followed.  42 USC 264 and 268 specifically pertain to ships wishing to enter US waters from a foreign destination.

 

With regards to the VSP, my point is that US flag vessels, doing strictly domestic voyages, do not fall under the CDC except if they undertake interstate voyages (where the CDC does have jurisdiction), but only to inspect,  sanitize, fumigate, etc a particular aircraft, vessel, or vehicle that has been found to be contaminated.  The CDC has no jurisdiction to stop interstate traffic, that would come from either the FAA or the ICC, while the states can set their requirements for people entering their state from another state (such as the 14 day self-quarantines that many states have for non-essential workers upon entering the state).  Since POA does not even travel interstate, the CDC loses all jurisdiction over the ship, and it becomes strictly a state issue. 

 

The POA does not request "clearance" into a port, since it has not gone foreign, and that is where the CDC comes into the equation.

Edited June 29, 2020 by chengkp75

[njhorseman]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

The no sail order is to set requirements for ships to gain "pratique", which is clearance to enter the US from foreign.  Since the POA does not venture outside the US (always within the 200 nautical mile "Exclusive Economic Zone"), nor does it transit from one state to another, the CDC has no jurisdiction, any more than the CDC has any jurisdiction over what measures a state or city decides to follow regarding covid.

 

The original order mentions, on page 6, that in accordance with 42 USC Sections 264 & 268, the following requirements are to be followed.  42 USC 264 and 268 specifically pertain to ships wishing to enter US waters from a foreign destination.

 

With regards to the VSP, my point is that US flag vessels, doing strictly domestic voyages, do not fall under the CDC except if they undertake interstate voyages (where the CDC does have jurisdiction), but only to inspect,  sanitize, fumigate, etc a particular aircraft, vessel, or vehicle that has been found to be contaminated.  The CDC has no jurisdiction to stop interstate traffic, that would come from either the FAA or the ICC, while the states can set their requirements for people entering their state from another state (such as the 14 day self-quarantines that many states have for non-essential workers upon entering the state).  Since POA does not even travel interstate, the CDC loses all jurisdiction over the ship, and it becomes strictly a state issue. 

Chief, one of the first actions taken by HHS Secretary Azar upon formation of the President's Coronavirus  Task Force, which he heads, was to declare a public health emergency for the entire United States. 

 

I would suggest that declaration expands the authority of HHS, of which the CDC is a part,  and permits an extension of executive power beyond normal statutory and regulatory limits, just as emergency declarations by various state governors have given them the authority to prohibit or modify the conduct of certain activities that are otherwise normally part of everyday life.

 

While your analysis is no doubt correct under normal circumstances, it may not be under the broad strokes of the public health emergency.

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Chief, one of the first actions taken by HHS Secretary Azar upon formation of the President's Coronavirus  Task Force, which he heads, was to declare a public health emergency for the entire United States. 

 

I would suggest that declaration expands the authority of HHS, of which the CDC is a part,  and permits an extension of executive power beyond normal statutory and regulatory limits, just as emergency declarations by various state governors have given them the authority to prohibit or modify the conduct of certain activities that are otherwise normally part of everyday life.

 

While your analysis is no doubt correct under normal circumstances, it may not be under the broad strokes of the public health emergency.

Here is a HHS webpage that explains what a "Public Health Emergency Declaration" entails:

 

https://www.phe.gov/Preparedness/legal/Pages/phedeclaration.aspx

 

I could be wrong, but nowhere in there do I see where the HHS or CDC can extend their jurisdiction.  It mostly has to do with funding, and reassignment of state personnel who are paid via the federal government.  Could be wrong, I don't speak "government" as a first language.  

[dumbth]

Hawaii has been declared "open for tourists" Aug 1 according to https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/06/30/hawaii-news/state-will-be-ready-for-tourists-on-aug-1-ige-says/

 

As I said earlier, another cruise line has announced new HI stopovers in October, and NCL hasn't cancelled my April cruise. But I don't see any official announcements about opening of ports.

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, dumbth said:

Hawaii has been declared "open for tourists" Aug 1 according to https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/06/30/hawaii-news/state-will-be-ready-for-tourists-on-aug-1-ige-says/

 

As I said earlier, another cruise line has announced new HI stopovers in October, and NCL hasn't cancelled my April cruise. But I don't see any official announcements about opening of ports.

Open for tourists based on approved testing, and they are still working on getting their infrastructure up to facilitate the obtaining testing and results in time for flights.

[Smokeyham]

It will be interesting to follow this and see if the ports are able to open by October. 

 

Princess also still has a cruise (SF - Hawaii - SF) on the website for October, but they also carry a warning on their website that "We are currently assessing enhanced health and safety protocols in light of COVID-19 and how they may impact our future offerings. Our actual offerings may vary from what is displayed or described here"

[Jeanne2]

I'll be following along with this thread.  We had booked our NCL POA Hawaii cruise for September 2020 but decided at the end of March that cruising through 2020 was looking iffy.  Rather than wait for NCL to cancel (which they ultimately did just recently), we postponed our reservation until September 2021.  Maybe we lost out on some monetary credits, but I'm not a good wait-and-see-what-happens person, so rebooking at the same rate we previously had was peace of mind for me.  Hoping/praying that by the time our final payment is due, this pandemic is in our wake.

[BirdTravels]

6 hours ago, Smokeyham said:

It will be interesting to follow this and see if the ports are able to open by October.  Princess also still has a cruise (SF - Hawaii - SF) on the website for October, but they also carry a warning on their website that "We are currently assessing enhanced health and safety protocols in light of COVID-19 and how they may impact our future offerings. Our actual offerings may vary from what is displayed or described here"

But, Princess is an international cruise ship flagged in Bermuda which calls in international ports (Mexico). The POA is a U.S. flagged ship that only calls in the state of Hawaii.