If Royal Requires A Covid-19 Vaccine Before Cruising Will You Get It???

[life is to be happy]

On 8/6/2020 at 6:54 AM, PhoenixCruiser said:

I hope that the cruise lines refuse those who won't get the vaccine.

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this really irritates me... I will not get the vaccine but I don't say anything like that to those that want the vaccine... as it is everyones choice. My thoughts are it would be nice for everyone to be able to enjoy the things in life they love and want to do like holidays, cruising, going out for dinner, meeting friends and family.  it seems on cc some people think the people who don't get the vaccine are selfish ... but I don't think so ... people have various reasons why they don't want to have it. and that is their choice, same as it is yours to get it. however just cos you will have the vaccine and you want cruise lines to refuse those that don't , I think that comment is selfish. I love cruising too and would love to be cruising again but I don't think It will happen due to all restrictions and vaccines... but I am fine with that now as that is my choice

[LorraineP]

4 hours ago, life is to be happy said:

this really irritates me... I will not get the vaccine but I don't say anything like that to those that want the vaccine... as it is everyones choice. My thoughts are it would be nice for everyone to be able to enjoy the things in life they love and want to do like holidays, cruising, going out for dinner, meeting friends and family.  it seems on cc some people think the people who don't get the vaccine are selfish ... but I don't think so ... people have various reasons why they don't want to have it. and that is their choice, same as it is yours to get it. however just cos you will have the vaccine and you want cruise lines to refuse those that don't , I think that comment is selfish. I love cruising too and would love to be cruising again but I don't think It will happen due to all restrictions and vaccines... but I am fine with that now as that is my choice

I agree with you, I definitely don’t consider myself as selfish. Think of it this way - I’m considerate (generous) I’m giving my vaccine to someone who really wants it. 

[Ocean Boy]

4 hours ago, life is to be happy said:

this really irritates me... I will not get the vaccine but I don't say anything like that to those that want the vaccine... as it is everyones choice. My thoughts are it would be nice for everyone to be able to enjoy the things in life they love and want to do like holidays, cruising, going out for dinner, meeting friends and family.  it seems on cc some people think the people who don't get the vaccine are selfish ... but I don't think so ... people have various reasons why they don't want to have it. and that is their choice, same as it is yours to get it. however just cos you will have the vaccine and you want cruise lines to refuse those that don't , I think that comment is selfish. I love cruising too and would love to be cruising again but I don't think It will happen due to all restrictions and vaccines... but I am fine with that now as that is my choice

If it turns out that the vaccine does reduce viral sheading enough to alleviate the need for masking, distancing, and ports of call restrictions,  then having unvaccinated people on the ship will  have a direct impact on the experience of everyone. Masking, distancing, and other restrictions will still be needed to protect the environment for the unvaccinated. More importantly to the cruise line is if distancing is needed then they will have to continue to book at reduced capacity which affects their bottom line.

 

Whether or not to get vaccinated is a choice. However, as with many things in life, you make your choices and you live with the consequences. When it comes to a public health matter, your choice may leave you limited until the pandemic is no longer an issue. Your feeling of irritation isn't going to change anything.

[yogimax]

7 hours ago, life is to be happy said:

 I think that comment is selfish.

No, it is certainly not selfish.

 

What is it?  It is following the science and seeking to limit the spread of a deadly virus.

[molly361]

It's kind of sad. My friend was so happy and relieved to get an appointment for the vaccine that she cried

[Charles4515]

7 hours ago, life is to be happy said:

this really irritates me... I will not get the vaccine but I don't say anything like that to those that want the vaccine... as it is everyones choice. My thoughts are it would be nice for everyone to be able to enjoy the things in life they love and want to do like holidays, cruising, going out for dinner, meeting friends and family.  it seems on cc some people think the people who don't get the vaccine are selfish ... but I don't think so ... people have various reasons why they don't want to have it. and that is their choice, same as it is yours to get it. however just cos you will have the vaccine and you want cruise lines to refuse those that don't , I think that comment is selfish. I love cruising too and would love to be cruising again but I don't think It will happen due to all restrictions and vaccines... but I am fine with that now as that is my choice

 

Those who won't take the vaccine are lengthing the time to a return to normal. 

 

I am in the camp of those who hope the cruise lines refuse those who don't get vaccinated. My reasons are selfish. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on a cruise and have it ruined by Covid cases on board. If you choose not to get vaccinated and the cruise lines require it and you still won't, well you would have choose not to cruise.

[OnTheJourney]

4 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Masking, distancing, and other restrictions will still be needed to protect the environment for the unvaccinated.

In a perfect scenario wherein everyone is vaccinated (which will obviously never happen) - not just ship crew and pax, but also those citizens who live wherever a ship or other travel companies might visit - you'll still always have the potential for infection until such time as this thing simply dwindles away due to herd immunity. I assume that cruise lines will not eliminate either the chance to disembark while at ports or to continue to offer excursions, and so in both cases you have massive interaction between vaccinated people (IF all on the ship are which also will probably never happen) and uncounted numbers of those ashore who maybe aren't.  Don't get me wrong - I fully support vaccination especially in a global society where international travel is so routine.

 

Here's another thing...money talks. Always has, always will. Airline security post-9/11 was very tight as to all the new regs that were implemented; however, as time went on, things started to get more lax - at least in my experience such as not even being asked to remove the bag of liquids from carry-ons. So even if the cruise industry initially requires either proof of vaccination and/or proof of negative covid test, it seems highly likely that the level of regs will start to become compromised to varying degrees. Another thorny issue - will employers require employees to be vaccinated? Sensitivity as to violation of one's rights (which I feel is carried to ridiculously extreme proportions here in the US) is such that mandatory vaccination will never occur. So then...how does this apply to cruise ship crew members? If they aren't all vaccinated, the efficacy of even having all pax vaccinated diminishes rather quickly. It's a very complex issue. 

 

One more thing...if traveling/cruising will always continue to involve having to wear a mask, it surely will never be the same type of enjoyable experience that so many of us here have great memories of. I'm not convinced that we'll ever get back to where we were. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

Those who won't take the vaccine are lengthing the time to a return to normal. 

I agree with this, and would hazard to say that the same applies to non-masking / non social-distancing. 

[mek]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:14 PM, lizzius said:

It's absolutely not 100% assurance... The all or nothing thinking is dangerous. Israel had 300ish positive cases among fully vaccinated 60+ year olds, 17 of which had to be hospitalized.

I looked up the article and it appears people contracted the virus before they reached maximum immunity from the vaccine.  People do need to be reminded that it is still necessary to be extra careful until several weeks after the 2nd shot.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/240-israelis-diagnosed-after-vaccination-underscore-need-for-continued-vigilance/

Edited February 9, 2021 by mek

[OnTheJourney]

4 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

which affects their bottom line.

This is a big key to what happens with the entire travel industry  - ships, busses, hotels, airlines...all of it. Like I said in a recent reply, 'money talks'...and perhaps sometimes in ways that are not always conducive to the best interests of the average person. 

 

Here's something else I firmly believe - that covid came along (at least here in the US) at the worst possible time - one in which we were already deeply politically divided and at odds with each other as a nation. It's no secret that we had an administration that expressed a certain level of skepticism as to much of "science" in general (since that word seems to come up often in these discussions), and then the flip side of the coin was present as well in a contrasting segment of the country - resulting in a rather deep chasm between the two. Were either covid or the political situation not present, I truly think that for whichever one remained, it would have been dealt with completely differently. The combination of the two made for, shall we say, completely incompatible 'bedfellows'. One worked independently to exacerbate the symptoms of the other. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[DCGuy64]

It seems to me that the issue shouldn't be whether someone is vaccinated or not, but whether that person poses a risk to others. Yes, I take this personally, because while I haven't yet gotten the vaccine (not eligible yet), I HAVE had COVID-19, recovered from it, and now test negative. My doctor has assured me that I am likely immune from it for the time being and will be for months. While I realize I'm not going on any cruises in the near future, my scenario would apply to many other people (unvaccinated yet recovered and not shedding the virus/not endangering anyone else) for a while to come. Should people like me be prevented from boarding a ship because we don't meet the criteria of having been vaccinated? What about people who either test negative or who have a positive Sars-CoV-2 test + a note from a doctor or public health official that the person has recovered and is no longer contagious? That's the standard now in place regarding anyone flying into the United States from abroad. If that standard is good enough for the US government, why would the cruise industry think it can impose a more stringent one? I would be VERY surprised if they got away with that. Imagine this scenario, and I don't think it's far-fetched at all: someone from the UK flies to Miami to get on a cruise ship. At MIA the person shows a negative test for COVID taken 72 hours prior and is allowed through passport control, but is later disallowed embarkation at PortMiami because he/she hasn't been vaccinated. That ain't fair. IOW it shouldn't just be about a jab in the arm, in my humble opinion. It should be about risk.

[OnTheJourney]

5 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Masking, distancing, and other restrictions will still be needed to protect the environment for the unvaccinated.

Here's the thing though - regardless of what the cruise lines decide as to requiring vaccination and/or negative covid tests, unless being allowed to get off the ship, do excursions, etc. becomes a thing of the past (not much point cruising then IMHO), cruise passengers will be interacting with potentially thousands of people who may or may not have had the vaccine. The ship is a very limited microcosm such that - even if all pax and crew are 'protected' by vaccine and sanitizing protocol onboard - it all sort of becomes moot if people leave the ship and come back on board potentially infected. It's a huge and complicated issue. 

[OnTheJourney]

DC....you raise some excellent points. We do not yet know, over the longer term, how efficacious these vaccines truly are. The implementation of them is still way too new to make any long range assumptions. The number of variables associated with all of this quickly exponentiates the deeper you explore all the possible scenarios. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

11 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

a note from a doctor or public health official that the person has recovered and is no longer contagious?

But....again, we have no idea of how long a person who has had covid and overcame it truly is no longer susceptible to possible re-infection. The potential for variants to continue emerging plays a big part in all of this as well. So truly ascertaining what levels of risk people pose to others - whether having been vaccinated or otherwise - is theoretical at best. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Here's the thing though - regardless of what the cruise lines decide as to requiring vaccination and/or negative covid tests, unless being allowed to get off the ship, do excursions, etc. becomes a thing of the past (not much point cruising then IMHO), cruise passengers will be interacting with potentially thousands of people who may or may not have had the vaccine. The ship is a very limited microcosm such that - even if all pax and crew are 'protected' by vaccine and sanitizing protocol onboard - it all sort of becomes moot if people leave the ship and come back on board potentially infected. It's a huge and complicated issue. 

I agree with this, and only time will tell, but I imagine a lot of ports are experiencing economic downturns due to the pause in cruise operations. My gut tells me that governments in Caribbean nations that depend on cruise trade are going to get their folk vaccinated ASAP for exactly the reasons you mention. (and the Caribbean is of course only one cruise destination, the same would apply in Canada, South America, Europe, Asia, etc.)

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

But....again, we have no idea of how long a person who has had covid and overcame it truly is no longer susceptible to possible re-infection. The potential for variants to continue emerging plays a big part in all of this as well. 

Yes, indeed, that's why I mentioned being negative, as well. Lots of people seem to think it's vaccine VS nothing, but my point is that someone might not be vaccinated but still be able to prove he/she is no threat to others.

[lizzius]

7 minutes ago, mek said:

I look up the article and it appears people contracted the virus before they reached maximum immunity from the vaccine.  People do need to be reminded that it is still necessary to be extra careful until several weeks after the 2nd shot.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/240-israelis-diagnosed-after-vaccination-underscore-need-for-continued-vigilance/

That's not the correct article (that's from early Jan, before most had received their second shot). This is the one: https://www.npr.org/2021/01/31/960819083/vaccines-for-data-israels-pfizer-deal-drives-quick-rollout-and-privacy-worries

[OnTheJourney]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

My gut tells me that governments in nations that depend on cruise trade are going to get their folk vaccinated ASAP

....in theory....one would hope so. Areas of the world (such as many parts of the Caribbean judging from of the living conditions I've seen in the islands) that have questionable sanitation to begin with need to be particularly more observant of how vaccination is even controlled and administered. You know what some of those towns and cities are like down there - I can't quite picture a mass and total vaccination effort as being successful. 

[OnTheJourney]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

but still be able to prove he/she is no threat to others.

sure...to some as of yet probably unknown length of time...same for the vaccine. There are simply no certainties associated with any of this at present. 

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

I agree with this, and only time will tell, but I imagine a lot of ports are experiencing economic downturns due to the pause in cruise operations. My gut tells me that governments in Caribbean nations that depend on cruise trade are going to get their folk vaccinated ASAP for exactly the reasons you mention. (and the Caribbean is of course only one cruise destination, the same would apply in Canada, South America, Europe, Asia, etc.)

And I think you make good points as well. The Caribbean island thrive on tourism and cruise ships. And they have no where near the populations of continental countries so they don't have many if the logistical problems of vaccinating a population.

[OnTheJourney]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

so they don't have many if the logistical problems of vaccinating a population.

true enough....I'm just thinking in terms of the level of facilities compared to places in the states. Oh well...armchair quarterbacking is always easy!  Or, put another way, "talk is cheap".... hoping for the best whichever way it plays out. Sorta tired of just accumulating money from canceled cruises / vouchers instead of actually going somewhere. 

[lizzius]

5 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

....in theory....one would hope so. Areas of the world (such as many parts of the Caribbean judging from of the living conditions I've seen in the islands) that have questionable sanitation to begin with need to be particularly more observant of how vaccination is even controlled and administered. You know what some of those towns and cities are like down there - I can't quite picture a mass and total vaccination effort as being successful. 

I mean, they manage to administer other vaccines with requirements similar to J&J's offering. No reason to think they can't handle this one as soon as they have a supply.

[mek]

27 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

It seems to me that the issue shouldn't be whether someone is vaccinated or not, but whether that person poses a risk to others. Yes, I take this personally, because while I haven't yet gotten the vaccine (not eligible yet), I HAVE had COVID-19, recovered from it, and now test negative. My doctor has assured me that I am likely immune from it for the time being and will be for months. While I realize I'm not going on any cruises in the near future, my scenario would apply to many other people (unvaccinated yet recovered and not shedding the virus/not endangering anyone else) for a while to come. Should people like me be prevented from boarding a ship because we don't meet the criteria of having been vaccinated? What about people who either test negative or who have a positive Sars-CoV-2 test + a note from a doctor or public health official that the person has recovered and is no longer contagious? That's the standard now in place regarding anyone flying into the United States from abroad. If that standard is good enough for the US government, why would the cruise industry think it can impose a more stringent one? I would be VERY surprised if they got away with that. Imagine this scenario, and I don't think it's far-fetched at all: someone from the UK flies to Miami to get on a cruise ship. At MIA the person shows a negative test for COVID taken 72 hours prior and is allowed through passport control, but is later disallowed embarkation at PortMiami because he/she hasn't been vaccinated. That ain't fair. IOW it shouldn't just be about a jab in the arm, in my humble opinion. It should be about risk.

I'm not sure what the immunization recommendations will be for people who have had covid.  So far I've read several different opinions. While I think of all the reasons to allow  exceptions to the vaccine requirement rule, people like you have the most legitimate "excuse" to not have to have a vaccination I still believe that in order to get cruises up and running safely from US ports, that the vaccination rule has to apply to everyone.

Once one exemption is allowed, then everyone will want one - and then what is the point?

I'm sure many will argue that everyone should be allowed to cruise as long as they have a negative test when they board - I just don't happen to agree with that.

 

[molly361]

5 minutes ago, mek said:

I'm not sure what the immunization recommendations will be for people who have had covid.  So far I've read several different opinions. While I think of all the reasons to allow  exceptions to the vaccine requirement rule, people like you have the most legitimate "excuse" to not have to have a vaccination I still believe that in order to get cruises up and running safely from US ports, that the vaccination rule has to apply to everyone.

Once one exemption is allowed, then everyone will want one - and then what is the point?

I'm sure many will argue that everyone should be allowed to cruise as long as they have a negative test when they board - I just don't happen to agree with that.

 

I just read somewhere that Avalon Cruise Line (don't know them) is requiring a vaccine OR a negative test, I think 72 hours in advance

[mek]

27 minutes ago, lizzius said:

That's not the correct article (that's from early Jan, before most had received their second shot). This is the one: https://www.npr.org/2021/01/31/960819083/vaccines-for-data-israels-pfizer-deal-drives-quick-rollout-and-privacy-worries

No, not  quite 100% but the vaccine was never 100% effective  and those who were hospitalized  - only 16 out of 715,425 is statistically 100%

 

Israel is already reporting promising initial results of the vaccination campaign. The Health Ministry said Thursday that out of a group of 715,425 Israelis fully vaccinated, only 317 — 0.04% — got infected with the virus at least one week after their second shot, and 16 were hospitalized with serious symptoms.