Cruise ships worst nightmare - fire

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

100% agree!  I have learned so much on CC on various forums!

Yes, many of us have learned so much.

 

We should be encouraging to those who share so much. We should make sure that they know that not everyone thinks they are old fogies who probably voted for Grover Cleveland.🤣(Well, maybe they think Cheng did, but not Heidi only because he is Canadian, not a US citizen.)

[MBP&O2/O]

“I did mine at your neck of the woods at South Shields. If memory is right, it was down on the waterfront, along with the Seamanship Centre & Radar simulators.“

 

Remember the training film? Fire Down Below?

 

Dear me, someone should have been burnt at the stake for that one ..... but I suppose it was getting on in years even then 😜

 

on a more serious note, one of the places we used to go to had a tanker explode when alongside. They just dragged the carcass away to shallow waters and left it ...

I was in full view of all and sundry and a sombre reminder of what can happen if you are careless!

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

 

Remember the training film? Fire Down Below?

 

Dear me, someone should have been burnt at the stake for that one ..... but I suppose it was getting on in years even then 😜

 

on a more serious note, one of the places we used to go to had a tanker explode when alongside. They just dragged the carcass away to shallow waters and left it ...

I was in full view of all and sundry and a sombre reminder of what can happen if you are careless!

 

Oh! you bet. Been subjected to it way too many times. I believe the first time was one of the first days aboard the cadet training ship - MV Otaio.

[MBP&O2/O]

Being that no one actually knows the cause of this here is a bit of useless but serious trivia.

 

On one ship (Wild Marlin) we carried a full cargo consisting, in part, of onions, but in the main bananas,  from Ecuador to Saudi Arabia

 

The book said, and I quote

 "The respiration process in onions may give rise to a tendency to self-heating and a high CO2 concentration and high O2 consumption, resulting in "scalding"."

In simple terms they could spontaneously combust.”

 

Who says being at sea isn’t different😀

[chengkp75]

In 2018, two tractor trailers loaded with onions spontaneously combusted, in Missouri.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Being that no one actually knows the cause of this here is a bit of useless but serious trivia.

 

On one ship (Wild Marlin) we carried a full cargo consisting, in part, of onions, but in the main bananas,  from Ecuador to Saudi Arabia

 

The book said, and I quote

 "The respiration process in onions may give rise to a tendency to self-heating and a high CO2 concentration and high O2 consumption, resulting in "scalding"."

In simple terms they could spontaneously combust.”

 

Who says being at sea isn’t different😀

 

OMG! spontaneously combusting cargo on a reefer. When I spent 9 months on Wild Auk we had it way easier - did the Haifa/UK shuttle for 3 months with citrus, then tractors across the Atlantic, loaded more citrus for Japan and finally frozen meat from Aussie to Romania.

 

Toughest cargo was the tractors, as the other cadet and I spent each day tightening every one of the Spanish Windlasses securing the tractors. Started at # 1 hold and worked aft.

[MBP&O2/O]

The dreaded tractor run 😊

Same ship ... tractors from Uddevalla to Baltimore ... in November ... the three wise men in Beaufort House suggested we ran a great circle route around the top end of Scotland 🤯😳

 

We declined 😇

 

As an aside we then managed a complete circumnavigation in 77 days. An excellent trip.

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

The dreaded tractor run 😊

Same ship ... tractors from Uddevalla to Baltimore ... in November ... the three wise men in Beaufort House suggested we ran a great circle route around the top end of Scotland 🤯😳

 

We declined 😇

 

As an aside we then managed a complete circumnavigation in 77 days. An excellent trip.

 

We did Antwerp to Wilmington NC, probably early April. Didn't get any Bridge time that week, so not sure of the exact route, but we did head towards the Azores on clearing the Western Approaches.

 

Wow, 77 days. Unfortunately we took a little longer. Didn't pay-off until September in Luca Bar in Yugoslavia. Got a month off, then joined Oriana for 5 months. In phase 2, I got 14 months seatime in 15 months.

[MBP&O2/O]

 

Sandejford to Newcastle

Newcastle to Uddevalla

Uddevalla to Baltimore

Baltimore to Puerto Bolivar via Panama Canal

Puerto Bolivar to Jeddah via Panama Canal and Suez Canal

Jeddah to Basrah

Basrah to Hiroshima

Hiroshima to Yokohama

Yokohama to Guayaquil

Guayaquil to San Antonio

San Antonio to Antwerp via Panama Canal

Antwerp to Guayaquil via Panama Canal

Guayaquil to Belfast via Panama Canal

 

Bananas, cars and tractors ...

 

I seem to recollect that this was the trip they banned anyone going ashore in Jeddah. It was (public) execution day and they had a high profile one scheduled.

 

[clo]

On 3/14/2021 at 11:42 AM, chengkp75 said:

In 2018, two tractor trailers loaded with onions spontaneously combusted, in Missouri.

WOW!

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

 

Sandejford to Newcastle

Newcastle to Uddevalla

Uddevalla to Baltimore

Baltimore to Puerto Bolivar via Panama Canal

Puerto Bolivar to Jeddah via Panama Canal and Suez Canal

Jeddah to Basrah

Basrah to Hiroshima

Hiroshima to Yokohama

Yokohama to Guayaquil

Guayaquil to San Antonio

San Antonio to Antwerp via Panama Canal

Antwerp to Guayaquil via Panama Canal

Guayaquil to Belfast via Panama Canal

 

Bananas, cars and tractors ...

 

I seem to recollect that this was the trip they banned anyone going ashore in Jeddah. It was (public) execution day and they had a high profile one scheduled.

 

 

Impressive. On Wild Auk, I did:

• Haifa/Bristol/Haifa - Citrus
• Haifa/London/Haifa - Citrus
• Haifa/Newcastle - Citrus
• Newcastle/Antwerp - ballast
• Antwerp/Wilmington NC - tractors
• Wilmington/Ft Lauderdale - ballast
• Ft Lauderdale/Tokyo/Kobe - citrus - via Panama Canal
• Kobe/Sydney - ballast
• Sydney/Tasmania/Melbourne/Adelaide - loading frozen meat
• Adelaide/Constanza/Bar - discharging frozen meat via Suez Canal

[sandycruzr]

I was on the Westerdam in 2014 with my teenage son when a fire broke out in the engine room.  The crew had great difficulty suppressing the fire and we had to return to Seattle. The strangest part of the whole experience was that NOBODY appeared to hear the code called. We were in the MDR when the code went out and the wait staff started to look a bit nervous.   I learned over and whispered to

my son “there’s a fire on the ship”.  The captain made an announcement over the PA and passengers just continued to talk and not pay attention to what he was saying. After about 5 minutes my son said to

me “I can’t believe there is a fire on

our ship and

nobody cares”.  A lady at the next table overheard him and said “What did you say?”  He told

her about the fire and she verified the fire with the waiter. Immediately she stood up and screamed THERES A FIRE ON THE

SHIP!   The MDR emptied out really fast! We stayed and had dessert!  After all, we heard the Captain say “no action is necessary by the

passengers I will update you every 15 minutes “ My phone started ringing in my

purse a few minutes later..it was my panickstricken husband back home...CNN was reporting the fire and he was worried. 
 

[Donald]

Fire WAS a cruise ship’s worst nightmare.

Maybe not any more.

A large cruise vessel typically has one or two small fires onboard nearly every week. Usually these fires are in the incinerator room, engine room, or galley. They are quickly extinguished; most passengers and crew are unaware that they even happened; nobody is injured or killed.

How many people were killed by fire on a cruise ship in the past 50 years?

The answer is very close to zero.

 

We should ask Princess Cruises and HAL how many passengers they have lost to 

COVID in just the past year.

Then ask them how much money they lost as a result of the COVID outbreaks and deaths.

I am reasonably sure that they would much prefer a fire onboard to a COVID outbreak.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

Fire WAS a cruise ship’s worst nightmare.

Maybe not any more.

A large cruise vessel typically has one or two small fires onboard nearly every week. Usually these fires are in the incinerator room, engine room, or galley. They are quickly extinguished; most passengers and crew are unaware that they even happened; nobody is injured or killed.

How many people were killed by fire on a cruise ship in the past 50 years?

The answer is very close to zero.

 

We should ask Princess Cruises and HAL how many passengers they have lost to 

COVID in just the past year.

Then ask them how much money they lost as a result of the COVID outbreaks and deaths.

I am reasonably sure that they would much prefer a fire onboard to a COVID outbreak.

 

I would say fire still is a serious issue.  The "data" you share could just as well apply to fires in high-rise buildings (terrorist attacks excepted).   They don't happen because people pay attention and practice good loss control.   

[clo]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

Fire WAS a cruise ship’s worst nightmare.

Maybe not any more.

A large cruise vessel typically has one or two small fires onboard nearly every week. Usually these fires are in the incinerator room, engine room, or galley. They are quickly extinguished; most passengers and crew are unaware that they even happened; nobody is injured or killed.

How many people were killed by fire on a cruise ship in the past 50 years?

The answer is very close to zero.

 

We should ask Princess Cruises and HAL how many passengers they have lost to 

COVID in just the past year.

Then ask them how much money they lost as a result of the COVID outbreaks and deaths.

I am reasonably sure that they would much prefer a fire onboard to a COVID outbreak.

THIS^^^

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

Fire WAS a cruise ship’s worst nightmare.

Maybe not any more.

A large cruise vessel typically has one or two small fires onboard nearly every week. Usually these fires are in the incinerator room, engine room, or galley. They are quickly extinguished; most passengers and crew are unaware that they even happened; nobody is injured or killed.

How many people were killed by fire on a cruise ship in the past 50 years?

The answer is very close to zero.

 

We should ask Princess Cruises and HAL how many passengers they have lost to 

COVID in just the past year.

Then ask them how much money they lost as a result of the COVID outbreaks and deaths.

I am reasonably sure that they would much prefer a fire onboard to a COVID outbreak.

 

I can only assume this is "In Jest", as if not, I consider it is a highly uninformed opinion.

 

First, let me address the number of fires on board ships and what the crew knows. Having spent almost 30 of my 40 yrs at sea in the position that is normally one of the first to be notified of a fire aboard ship, in my experience they are most definitely not one or two per week.

 

You correctly named 3 of the higher fire hazard areas aboard ship, but in my entire 40 yrs at sea, I have experienced 1 engine explosion, where a rod came through the block, but did not cause an active fire. Galley fires - lots of drills, but don't recall any galley fires on my ships. Most fires I experienced on a ship was SS Oriana in 1978 and most were caused by passengers. The worst non-pax caused fire I recall was the laundry locker on either Island or Sun Princess, but have also had a few hotwork fires. Note - I have only included operational ships, not when in drydock.

 

The assessment party is called for many situations, with fire being only one of them. Therefore, when the Assessment Party Code is sounded, it does not mean the ship has a fire. Very few crew actually participate in the Assessment Party, but the crew telegraph ensures almost all crew members know what happens.

 

Yes, the number of crew/pax deaths due to fire are fairly low, but this does not negate the potential seriousness of fire aboard a ship at sea, or alongside. This is a testament to regulatory protections, technology, crew training, procedures, drills and equipment, etc. Ship based fire-fighting is the opposite of shore-based fire-fighting, with flag/class mandated structural fire protection providing containment. The development of High-fog systems was a huge bonus, as they knock fires down quickly, often at the initial ignition. However, especially when including human factors, these risk mitigations are not infallable, so even with low probability, fire is still considered one of the major risk factors.

 

A classic example of a modern ship fire is the Star Princess in 2006. Even with modern structural fire protection and fixed systems, none of them worked on the balconies. This fire identified a poorly protected area that is common to many ships. How many other similar examples still exist that we still haven't yet experienced/identified.

 

When risk assessing our operations, when working on fire issues, we used very high consequences and low probability, which is the opposite of your statement.

 

I can also provide an option to pax - would you rather be aboard the Diamond Princess with COVID or be in one of the cabins of the Star Princess in the vicinity of the fire, trying to fight your way out in dense, acrid smoke. I experienced smoke on my first fire-fighting course, without SCBA, so have 1st hand experience, as do all Deck & Engineering Officers. I have also lived in the COVID world for over a year, so I know what my choice would be.

 

Hopefully some of the other marine professionals can also venture an opinion @chengkp75, @Aquahound, @MBP&O2/O

 

[chengkp75]

In my cruise ship time, we never had a passenger caused fire, nor an engine room fire.  The most common fire was in the incinerator, where improper sorting led to something that could cause a spark being sent through the shredder, and sparking into the shredded paper/cardboard in the silo.  We also had a couple of trash can fires in crew cabins.  Galley "fires" usually tended to be cooking smoke that set off a detector, or the overuse of a torch on the creme brule.

[MBP&O2/O]

“Fire WAS a cruise ship’s worst nightmare.

Maybe not any more.

A large cruise vessel typically has one or two small fires onboard nearly every week. Usually these fires are in the incinerator room, engine room, or galley. They are quickly extinguished; most passengers and crew are unaware that they even happened; nobody is injured or killed.”

 

WUM.??

 

Reminds me of a post on another forum ... Master refuses to anchor at a tender port .... whereby someone said “I have done a bit of boating in my time so this decision tells me the anchor was broken”
 

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

 

 

Reminds me of a post on another forum ... Master refuses to anchor at a tender port .... whereby someone said “I have done a bit of boating in my time so this decision tells me the anchor was broken”
 

 

Aw, that famous Rodney Dangerfield quote from Caddyshack:  "Hey, you scratched my anchor"  😁

[rkacruiser]

It is not a joking matter when there is a fire where one is.

 

On the last day of school, my junior high experienced the fire alarm going off.  Ha, ha.  My students thought--someone pulled the alarm.  We evacuated properly.  Once outside the building and seeing smoke billowing from a window of our school:  you never heard a group of early adolescents become so silent!  It was not a serious incident; a fire in a locker along a hallway started by an excellent Freshman student who somehow obtained some combustible chemicals from my science department's storeroom.  It was a prank.  It could have turned out to so much more.

 

A fire began in a neighboring condo of mine because of drug activity.  My home and our entire building was destroyed.  I escaped in pajamas, a bath robe, and a lined overcoat that I thought to get out of my closet closest to my door.  My ocean liner memorabilia collection, etc. was destroyed.  

 

2002, M. S. Volendam, Asia Pacific Cruise:  the fire alarm rang during a party in the Explorer's Lounge where the Captain and the Hotel Manager was attending.  I never have observed such quick response from people.  The Captain and Hotel Manager immediately--at a run--left the Lounge.  A couple of minutes later, the Staff Captain runs by the Explorer Lounge (where the party was being held), to the mid-ship's stairway and runs down the stairs while a fire control party assembles in that foyer.  We, guests, look at each other and wonder:  what to do.  The consensus was to wait for instructions, which we did.  A waste basket fire in a crew cabin was the issue due to discarded smoking material.  I was told that at the next port, that crew member had to find his own way home.  

 

A fire is no joke wherever or whenever it occurs.  

[FredT]

Anyone doubt the danger of fire onboard a cruise ship, (And want a great read) Pick up a copy of "Burning Cold" the story of the sinking of the Prinsendam in October 1980

[ldubs]

18 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

It is not a joking matter when there is a fire where one is.

  

A fire is no joke wherever or whenever it occurs.  

 

No, it is not.   

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, FredT said:

Anyone doubt the danger of fire onboard a cruise ship, (And want a great read) Pick up a copy of "Burning Cold" the story of the sinking of the Prinsendam in October 1980

 

There are some other books about the Prinsendam disaster that have been more recently written than "Burning Cold".  One was written by a Second Officer aboard the ship.  One was written by a USCG Officer who was involved in the rescue of the crew and guests.  (It's very detailed.)  Anyone interested?  If so, respond and I will provide the titles and authors.  

[gerryuk]

 

[FredT]

20 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

There are some other books about the Prinsendam disaster that have been more recently written than "Burning Cold".  One was written by a Second Officer aboard the ship.  One was written by a USCG Officer who was involved in the rescue of the crew and guests.  (It's very detailed.)  Anyone interested?  If so, respond and I will provide the titles and authors.  

I have read the CG book, but I would love to know book written by the second officer.  

 

A bit of useless trivia here.....    The popular musical artist Yanni was one of the entertainers on the ship that night.