where do you think Marina will sail this winter?

[susiesan]

Marina is scheduled to resume sailing this Sunday Aug. 29. She will be cruising in Europe until Nov. 19 when she heads across the Atlantic to arrive in Miami Dec. 1. She is scheduled to spend December, January, February, and early March in South America, then head back over to Europe March 19, 2022. If the South America cruises are cancelled, which is likely, what do you think Oceania will do with Marina? Would they bring her over to the Caribbean for just a few months when O already has Riviera and Sirena doing winter Caribbean cruises? Is there enough business to support another O class ship in this market when the current Riviera cruises are not sold out? Would Oceania just leave Marina in Europe ready to go for the European 2022 cruise season?

 

What's your speculation or best guess? Which makes the most economic sense? 

[Hlitner]

We are booked on the Dec 1 Miami to Lima voyage and have had many doubts that this cruise will happen.  But we finally reached a point where we needed to book air (we did it with miles) which will become complicated if "O" cancels the cruise.  We were recently on a Greek Island cruise (Seabourn) where a few of us discussed "O" and their South America itineraries.  The consensus was that "O" will try to go ahead with these cruises as long as the various countries allow cruise ship visits.  While COVID is a big problem in countries like Peru, they still are open to tourism (with restrictions).   I guess we all need to accept that cruising and travel in this era has many challenges and those of us willing to deal with the risk will just have to roll with the waves :).    Our recent 3 week trip and cruise to Greece also involved lots of travel risk at the time we booked.  When we finally took the trip (which involved a 2 week cruise and a week of independent island hopping) everything was fantastic and actually felt normal (except for the 3 COVID tests we needed during this trip. 

 

Hank

[pinotlover]

We are booked on the Marina for one of those S. A. cruises. Lots of political consequences. Final payment for Hank’s cruise is 10/2. The S. A. Itinerary has possible consequences for the ATW22. Cancel S.A. And that cruise become ms less likely.

 

The bigger picture if O shutters S. A. on or about 10/2, with its possible effects, they go into an October cruise release season with a very limited current sailing itinerary . At that point, after 18 months of being shutdown, NCLH’s cash position becomes even more important. Are people going to continue advancing money, out into the future (2023-2024)to a cruise line just barely is sailing today?  Perhaps waiting until next summer to see if NCLH is sufficiently sailing by then becomes more prudent? That represents a drop in cash flow for O.

 

These 2022 cancellation decisions have bigger considerations than those 2021 cancellations did. There comes a point where the lines have to prove they’re actually cruising, not just taking reservations.

[Flatbush Flyer]

As folks have discussed what to use for replacements of the OZ/NZ ATW segments on Insignia, I’ve posited that Insignia will head south from L.A. along Pacific Central/South America - in fact, as far as Cape Horn and even over to the Falklands before returning west/northwest to a transpacific crossing. 
 

I mention this because Marina already has plans for South America and J am convinced that O will do its best to keep its SA itineraries though I’d bet there’ll be a shift of ports to focus on the Pacific side even to the point of adding partial Pacific crossings to include Rapa Nui, Hawaii and parts of French Polynesia.

 

With its smaller ships and its already stellar reputation for handling everything Covid related, I see O developing an Southeastern Pacific formula involving a strong relationship with ports where they have existing ties so that they can minimize the need for changes.

 

FWIW, Marina is not new to Eastern Pacific itineraries.

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

As folks have discussed what to use for replacements of the OZ/NZ ATW segments on Insignia, I’ve posited that Insignia will head south from L.A. along Pacific Central/South America - in fact, as far as Cape Horn and even over to the Falklands before returning west/northwest to a transpacific crossing. 
 

I mention this because Marina already has plans for South America and J am convinced that O will do its best to keep its SA itineraries though I’d bet there’ll be a shift of ports to focus on the Pacific side even to the point of adding partial Pacific crossings to include Rapa Nui, Hawaii and parts of French Polynesia.

 

With its smaller ships and its already stellar reputation for handling everything Covid related, I see O developing an Southeastern Pacific formula involving a strong relationship with ports where they have existing ties so that they can minimize the need for changes.

 

FWIW, Marina is not new to Eastern Pacific itineraries.

Since I am booked on a cruise, I’d like to share your enthusiasm. However, Patrick Watts, who is probably the most highly rated Falklands tour guides, and with whom our Roll Call has a tour booked, says that the 2021-2022 astral summer tourist season to the Falklands is highly unlikely. He hasn’t cancelled our tour yet, but believes it’s doubtful we’ll get there. Remove Argentina, with Usailia and Port Arenas in the South and the cruise is wiped out. 
 

We aren’t canceling. Much like our Nautica Ist-Dubai cruise we’ll wait on Oceania’s final judgment. Unfortunately, we have plane tickets purchased, but they can be cancelled for a credit not a refund.

[Flatbush Flyer]

Just now, pinotlover said:

Since I am booked on a cruise, I’d like to share your enthusiasm. However, Patrick Watts, who is probably the most highly rated Falklands tour guides, and with whom our Roll Call has a tour booked, says that the 2021-2022 astral summer tourist season to the Falklands is highly unlikely. He hasn’t cancelled our tour yet, but believes it’s doubtful we’ll get there. Remove Argentina, with Usailia and Port Arenas in the South and the cruise is wiped out. 
 

We aren’t canceling. Much like our Nautica Ist-Dubai cruise we’ll wait on Oceania’s final judgment. Unfortunately, we have plane tickets purchased, but they can be cancelled for a credit not a refund.

My addition of the Falklands was wishful thinking. But, I do think the Pacific side is more doable than the Atlantic side (so far).

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

With its smaller ships and its already stellar reputation for handling everything Covid related

I think that statement is really overreaching as Oceania has not yet cruised for a single day since the pandemic shutdown began almost 18 months ago. Let's see what Oceania does the first time there's an outbreak of COVID cases on board, and it's inevitable that there will be some outbreaks, before awarding her any medals .

I'm also giving a big "so what" to the fact that Oceania operates relatively small ships. Her sister cruise line, NCL, operates much bigger ships using essentially identical COVID protocols as Oceania and based on at least a limited number of sailings to date doesn't appear to have run into any overwhelming problems. 

If I recall correctly in previous posts you were quite sure that Oceania would return to service first with it smallest ships, the "R" class when in fact it is the two larger "O" ships that will sail 24 times (if I've counted correctly) before Insignia is scheduled to make the first voyage of an "R" ship .

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by njhorseman

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

I think that statement is really overreaching as Oceania has not yet cruised for a single day since the pandemic shutdown began almost 18 months ago. Let's see what Oceania does the first time there's an outbreak of COVID cases on board, and it's inevitable that there will be some outbreaks, before awarding her any medals .

I'm also giving a big "so what" to the fact that Oceania operates relatively small ships. Her sister cruise line, NCL, operates much bigger ships using essentially identical COVID protocols as Oceania and based on at least a limited number of sailings to date doesn't appear to have run into any overwhelming problems. 

If I recall correctly in previous posts you were quite sure that Oceania would return to service first with it smallest ships, the "R" class when in fact it is the two larger "O" ships that will sail 24 times (if I've counted correctly) before Insignia is scheduled to make the first voyage of an "R" ship .

 

My reference to “everything Covid” should have said “so far” since I was particularly referring to O’s handling of cancellations, refunds, the development of its SailSafe protocols, ship HVAC and facilities modifications, etc. as well as the hard line on requiring 100% vaccination taken by its founder, FDR (now CEO of NCLH).

 

In any case, I am convinced that O will act in an exemplary fashion should they encounter any Covid cases once cruising restarts.

 

As for the R ships “first” restart idea, my error in prognostication was not considering their original itineraries which found the Covid restrictions/port unavailability to be the major factors in determining which ships would restart first.

 

That said, I’ll continue to make somewhat informed predictions including reliance on Pacific side Central/South America for greater itinerary flexibility.

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

My reference to “everything Covid” should have said “so far” since I was particularly referring to O’s handling of cancellations, refunds, the development of its SailSafe protocols, ship HVAC and facilities modifications, etc. as well as the hard line on requiring 100% vaccination taken by its founder, FDR (now CEO of NCLH).

It's fine to give credit to FDR, but as a result your compliments should extend not just to Oceania but also to its two siblings, NCL and Regent Seven Seas. All three are operating under the same protocols, which were developed at the corporate holding company level, not by the individual operating cruise lines.

[Flatbush Flyer]

Just now, njhorseman said:

It's fine to give credit to FDR, but as a result your compliments should extend not just to Oceania but also to its two siblings, NCL and Regent Seven Seas. All three are operating under the same protocols, which were developed at the corporate holding company level, not by the individual operating cruise lines.

Agreed- If any cruiseline consortium will do it right it will be NCLH. But do you agree that it will be hardest for NCL (vs O and Regent) to make everything work given all the comparative factors like passenger demographics, ship size/population, etc.? 

[njhorseman]

12 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Agreed- If any cruiseline consortium will do it right it will be NCLH. But do you agree that it will be hardest for NCL (vs O and Regent) to make everything work given all the comparative factors like passenger demographics, ship size/population, etc.? 

No...I don't think it will be harder for NCL to to make everything work because I'm confident their management team has been well prepared for the job. 

 

 As someone who has sailed a lot more on NCL than I have on Oceania frankly I find your comment about passenger demographics to be more than a little insulting. You're talking as if NCL passengers are some lower form of life, perhaps serfs who are dirt under the feet of the higher class Oceania and Regent passengers. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

No...I don't think it will be harder for NCL to to make everything work because I'm confident their management team has been well prepared for the job. 

 

 As someone who has sailed a lot more on NCL than I have on Oceania frankly I find your comment about passenger demographics to be more than a little insulting. You're talking as if NCL passengers are some lower form of life, perhaps serfs who are dirt under the feet of the higher class Oceania and Regent passengers. 

The demographics I speak of have more to do with homogeneity of the passenger population - age, immediate family situation, etc.

For example, I’m not sure how NCL is/will handling the issue of children who cannot yet be vaccinated. But, you must admit that it’s far less of an issue on O and Regent.
Likewise, dealing with the differences among 700-1200 passengers is far less challenging than dealing with thousands and doing so with less favorable crew and space to passenger ratios.

[BarbaraM]

NCL handles the issue of children the same way as it does on Oceania and Regent.  Vaccinated passengers and crew only -- no exceptions for age or medical condition.    We don't cruise on NCL, but also find your comment about NCL demographics a bit strange -- and your follow up didn't help. 

[njhorseman]

30 minutes ago, BarbaraM said:

NCL handles the issue of children the same way as it does on Oceania and Regent.  Vaccinated passengers and crew only -- no exceptions for age or medical condition.    We don't cruise on NCL, but also find your comment about NCL demographics a bit strange -- and your follow up didn't help. 

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

[santos949]

I completely understand what Flatbush Flyer is saying here.  We cruise on NCL (Breakaway/Getaway) out of New Orleans as a family (4 cabins) because it is convenient (we live here) and relatively inexpensive.  Because my husband and I pay for all of the cabins, we could not begin to afford Oceania or Regent (with the accompanying airfare)  for the entire family.  I am not being insulting or demeaning here.  It is just a matter of economics for us.  

 

We have cruised 70 times.  While we have not yet cruised Oceania (We do have one booked) we will continue to cruise...booking cruises from Carnival to Silversea. We love Regent, Crystal and Silversea and can afford to book these lines for the two of us.  I am guessing that we will love Oceania.

 

Are there more kids/younger adults on Carnival and NCL?...yes there are.  But really that is to be expected.  We board these ships with DIFFERENT expectations than when boarding the 6-star vessels.

[cbb]

I hope that O does NOT sail SA for ATW22.  We are to be onboard for that cruise as well as ATW23 which has always listed SA on its itinerary. 

 

There would be no reason then for us to sail ATW23 even though '23 was to be a reunion cruise for those of us who were on the terminated 2020 ATW.

 

ATW22 as a mystery cruise does not appeal to some of the passengers and floating through beautiful beaches is not hugely appealing to those who have beautiful beaches out their front doors or within walking distance of home.

 

I truly feel for the O staff as they try to create an itinerary based on the health of nations around the world 4-10 months from now--information they obviously don't have. 

 

 

 

 

[njhorseman]

47 minutes ago, santos949 said:

Are there more kids/younger adults on Carnival and NCL?...yes there are.  But really that is to be expected.  We board these ships with DIFFERENT expectations than when boarding the 6-star vessels.

But there won't be any younger children on NCL ships for the foreseeable future because they are requiring every passenger to be vaccinated. As a result there are no passengers under the age of 12 currently eligible to cruise on NCL. That fact tosses the entire "demographic" argument out the window.

[Hlitner]

My vote is still pending as "O" has yet to walk the walk in terms of operating under COVID.  I can look towards Seabourn and Silverseas (and to a lesser degree to Celebrity) who have managed to rekindle their operations with some degree of early success.  We recently returned from a 2 week Seabourn cruise in the Greek Islands and they delivered an amazing (nearly perfect) cruise.  Despite having relatively small numbers of passengers on the ship (we were at about 50% capacity) Seabourn had everything on their ship operating at 100% with no visible cut-backs.  Seabourn actually was operating in a very normal manner (no passenger masking or social distancing) while Silverseas has been operating with some restrictions (i.e. masks indoors, some things shutdown or limited, etc).   Only time will tell if these lines have it right but early results have been very good.

 

So now it is O's turn to show if it can operate in the current environment.  No reason to heap praise on a line that has yet to cruise a single day.  We are "O" virgins having been persuaded to try this line by quite a few CC posters for which we have a lot of respect.   I also have a lot of respect for FDR who I have long thought is one of the brightest bulbs in the cruise industry.

 

Hank

[pinotlover]

Yep, All teams are going to have a perfect season and win the League, until the first game is played. It’s easy to claim a perfect record if you haven’t played a game yet, while others are already on the field competing.

 

This board spends more time talking about what has been/ will be cancelled, than it does actual cruising. That’s because there hasn’t been any on O. Meanwhile, the other teams are on the field performing.

[Queen of DaNile]

Marina is leaving today on a 5 day round trip Copenhagen. 400 on board. We shall see how the team does very soon.

[susiesan]

1 hour ago, Queen of DaNile said:

Marina is leaving today on a 5 day round trip Copenhagen. 400 on board. We shall see how the team does very soon.

What cruise is that? The first scheduled Marina cruise is Sunday 8/29, 1O day Copenhagen to Stockholm.

If there is a 5 day cruise today it must be a charter or a private cruise.

 

What would be the drop dead date to eliminate the SA winter sailings and sub in other itineraries? 60 days before Dec. 1 when final payment is due for the first SA sail date? If Marina is going to do winter Caribbean cruises from Miami and the price is right, I'd cancel my Nov. 29 Caribbean from Ft. Lauderdale with Celebrity and switch to Oceania like originally planned before Sirena December sailings were cancelled.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by susiesan

[Queen of DaNile]

4 hours ago, susiesan said:

What cruise is that? The first scheduled Marina cruise is Sunday 8/29, 1O day Copenhagen to Stockholm.

If there is a 5 day cruise today it must be a charter or a private cruise.

 

What would be the drop dead date to eliminate the SA winter sailings and sub in other itineraries? 60 days before Dec. 1 when final payment is due for the first SA sail date? If Marina is going to do winter Caribbean cruises from Miami and the price is right, I'd cancel my Nov. 29 Caribbean from Ft. Lauderdale with Celebrity and switch to Oceania like originally planned before Sirena December sailings were cancelled.

 

[susiesan]

Queen, that is quite interesting. How did you find out about this test cruise? Did people pay for it or was it a freebie for VIP's and travel agents?

[Queen of DaNile]

It was posted on another site and sounds like it was for invited guests/agents. Don't know if they paid.

[basor]

44 minutes ago, susiesan said:

Queen, that is quite interesting. How did you find out about this test cruise? Did people pay for it or was it a freebie for VIP's and travel agents?

Invitation only....