Formal nights/Dining Room

[JimmyVWine]

20 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

If you can't find peace with others also enjoying their own version of the "Cruise Experience",

 

9 minutes ago, scottca075 said:

If the cruise line sets a standard, then people should follow it. What there is "enough of in the world already" is people thinking rules do not apply to them.

 

There is much to commend about both of these statements.  To me, the "Cruise Experience" is 3,000 people enjoying themselves, leaving their cares behind, enjoying all that life has to offer, loving the time they are spending with their travel companion(s) as well as the fresh air on the open sea.  There is no one set of rules that will result in all 3,000 people achieving that level of Nirvana.  Each person has to be allowed some leeway in order for all to achieve the level of bliss they seek and which for they are paying. 

 

Which brings us to the second statement.  For reasons unbeknownst to me, at some point in time many cruise lines (including PCL) decided that on certain nights or in certain venues, cruise passengers should pretend that they are the Vanderbilts,  Mellons and Carnegies and all dress up "Downton Abbey" style as if they were on a transatlantic crossing on a White Star or Cunard ship.  I have no idea how or why anyone decided that after spending a day in St. Thomas or Juneau, passengers needed to or wanted to play dress-up as if they were having an audience with King Edward.  But along came the statement in the cruise literature: "We kindly request that you..."  Now, sometimes that is followed by "refrain from smoking" and sometimes it is followed by "adhere to the dress code for the evening."  It always seemed odd to me that people who understand the former to be a "rule" and not a mere "suggestion" should find the latter to be a "suggestion" and not a "rule".  To me they stand on equal footing. 

 

But that was then and this is now.  Airlines started limiting baggage allowances and charging exorbitant fees for checked bags. The digital world necessitates that we pack more electronic than ever before.  Business rarely require suits so many people have grown out of the last one they bought 10 years ago.  (Guilty!)  Tuxedos are rarely required for ANYTHING, and odds are that if you own one, the last 10 times you wore it was on a cruise. (Guilty again...until I grew out of it!)  So the idea that one should add $1,000+ to their wardrobe just so that the can play: "Look at me! I'm Lord Crawley!!" while on a cruise in the Caribbean is silly beyond words.  But it is incumbent upon Princess to bite that final bullet and eliminate the "We kindly request..." aspect of Formal Nights, (assuming that they still use that phrasing.)  Just say in the Patter that professional photographers will be out and about the ship tonight so tonight is your chance to shine and look your best if that is your jam.  (Though I doubt Princess will ever say "jam").  But you get the idea.  I suspect that "Dress To Impress" is Princess' way of sliding into the future at the pace of the Mendenhall Glacier.  But the lack of any enforcement of the requested dress brings me back to my comment about "rules" and "suggestions".  If you started smoking in a place where you weren't supposed to, I have no doubt that you would be reprimanded as the "rule" would be enforced.  If you show up at the MDR in jeans and a golf shirt on Formal Night and are shown to a table, then the "rule" is not enforced, and at this point it becomes simply a "suggestion."  And when a rule becomes a suggestion, no one has any right to cry foul at another passenger.  If you have a beef, take it up with the cruise line.  But as far as the passengers are concerned, we are back to 3,000 people enjoying themselves, leaving their cares behind, enjoying all that life has to offer, loving the time they are spending with their travel companion(s) as well as the fresh air on the open sea.  

[KeepCalmBearOn]

55 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

The dress code a suggestion and not an edict. It's a vacation, not a job interview, wedding or funeral. 

 

Do you have a link to the Princess website you can share that says, "Suggested Dress Code" for Formal Nights?

 

Similarly, do you have links to the "edicts" for job interviews, weddings and funerals?

[ohmandi]

3 hours ago, Kansas Gal said:

That is exactly the problem here.  What your view of the "cruise experience" is supposed to be is not necessarily what other people's view is.  There is no reason in my opinion to separate people just because they have different ideas.  Enough of that today in the world already.  Just accept that people are different, not wrong just because they have different ideas.

You clearly have no idea who I am.    I never said anyone was wrong for dressing down.  I merely was commenting that it used to be fun to see everyone dressed up.  If we could all "just accept that people are different" in all aspects of life, the world would be a much better place.

[sloopsailor]

17 minutes ago, ohmandi said:

Hey Sailor, I made absolutely no judgmental or insulting comments in my post, unlike you.  No need to be rude.  I am able to express my opinions on and pleasure in dressing up and how I view "my cruise experience."  Your are so far off on your assessment of me but you be you.  I'll be me.  Sail on. 

 

Your comment "....find it sad the people don't dress up anymore" is indeed passing judgment. You are accusing people of ruining what you feel is the appropriate atmosphere, which is making you "sad". They aren't doing things the way you like them to be done, and you are not pleased with them. That's exactly what passing judgment is!!

 

If I am wrong about this, then I apologize. But that is the way it came across on your initial comment. 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by sloopsailor

[Phantom of the Seas]

personally my wife & I like to dress up formal or even casual nights.....to each their own....I’m tired of wearing my jeans everywhere.....

[Bobbiegentry]

1 hour ago, scottca075 said:

 

Do you have a link to the Princess website you can share that says, "Suggested Dress Code" for Formal Nights?

 

Similarly, do you have links to the "edicts" for job interviews, weddings and funerals?

SMH

[KeepCalmBearOn]

1 hour ago, Bobbiegentry said:

SMH

 

If someone is going to make assertions on "edicts" they should be able to support those assertions with references.

[Potstech]

4 hours ago, scottca075 said:

 

Do you have a link to the Princess website you can share that says, "Suggested Dress Code" for Formal Nights?

 

Similarly, do you have links to the "edicts" for job interviews, weddings and funerals?

If it was a "Rule" then it would be enforced by Princess. It is not enforced so it is not a rule.

[Steelers36]

4 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

 

There is much to commend about both of these statements.  To me, the "Cruise Experience" is 3,000 people enjoying themselves, leaving their cares behind, enjoying all that life has to offer, loving the time they are spending with their travel companion(s) as well as the fresh air on the open sea.  There is no one set of rules that will result in all 3,000 people achieving that level of Nirvana.  Each person has to be allowed some leeway in order for all to achieve the level of bliss they seek and which for they are paying. 

 

Which brings us to the second statement.  For reasons unbeknownst to me, at some point in time many cruise lines (including PCL) decided that on certain nights or in certain venues, cruise passengers should pretend that they are the Vanderbilts,  Mellons and Carnegies and all dress up "Downton Abbey" style as if they were on a transatlantic crossing on a White Star or Cunard ship.  I have no idea how or why anyone decided that after spending a day in St. Thomas or Juneau, passengers needed to or wanted to play dress-up as if they were having an audience with King Edward.  But along came the statement in the cruise literature: "We kindly request that you..."  Now, sometimes that is followed by "refrain from smoking" and sometimes it is followed by "adhere to the dress code for the evening."  It always seemed odd to me that people who understand the former to be a "rule" and not a mere "suggestion" should find the latter to be a "suggestion" and not a "rule".  To me they stand on equal footing. 

 

But that was then and this is now.  Airlines started limiting baggage allowances and charging exorbitant fees for checked bags. The digital world necessitates that we pack more electronic than ever before.  Business rarely require suits so many people have grown out of the last one they bought 10 years ago.  (Guilty!)  Tuxedos are rarely required for ANYTHING, and odds are that if you own one, the last 10 times you wore it was on a cruise. (Guilty again...until I grew out of it!)  So the idea that one should add $1,000+ to their wardrobe just so that the can play: "Look at me! I'm Lord Crawley!!" while on a cruise in the Caribbean is silly beyond words.  But it is incumbent upon Princess to bite that final bullet and eliminate the "We kindly request..." aspect of Formal Nights, (assuming that they still use that phrasing.)  Just say in the Patter that professional photographers will be out and about the ship tonight so tonight is your chance to shine and look your best if that is your jam.  (Though I doubt Princess will ever say "jam").  But you get the idea.  I suspect that "Dress To Impress" is Princess' way of sliding into the future at the pace of the Mendenhall Glacier.  But the lack of any enforcement of the requested dress brings me back to my comment about "rules" and "suggestions".  If you started smoking in a place where you weren't supposed to, I have no doubt that you would be reprimanded as the "rule" would be enforced.  If you show up at the MDR in jeans and a golf shirt on Formal Night and are shown to a table, then the "rule" is not enforced, and at this point it becomes simply a "suggestion."  And when a rule becomes a suggestion, no one has any right to cry foul at another passenger.  If you have a beef, take it up with the cruise line.  But as far as the passengers are concerned, we are back to 3,000 people enjoying themselves, leaving their cares behind, enjoying all that life has to offer, loving the time they are spending with their travel companion(s) as well as the fresh air on the open sea.  

 

This could well be the best post I have ever read on the topic of formal/non-formal dress on Princess.  Well done, sir.  🍷

[Ptroxx]

48 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

 

Why don't you provide proof of your own assertions? Oh, that is not the way you roll, is it? OK. Then I will patiently explain the facts to you.  

 

Regarding what to wear for formal nights, below is a copy of the web page that Princess publishes on the subject. Note the world RECOMMENDATIONS and not the word REQUIREMENTS in the statement. From my 73 year's understanding of the English language, a recommendation is not a requirement, and never has been. Is English a second language and you are confused about the meaning? 

 

And since this is a cruise forum and not a job interview preparation website, I will simply say that if you don't get what I meant, you won't get an explanation of it either.  

 

Dress Code

During your cruise, you should dress the same way you would do ashore. Leisure wear such as shorts and t-shirts is appropriate on board and on shore excursions in a warm climate. Depending on your itinerary, we advise you to bring sweaters and jackets for chilly evenings.

Keep in mind that it could rain and that you need correct clothing for visits to religious sites. On deck, sandals with rubber soles and sneakers are ideal.

 

There are two recommendations for evenings and dinners:

 

• Smart casual:
  Dress the same way you would do for a visit to a restaurant at home. Skirts, dresses or trousers with t-shirt or blouse for ladies, trousers and shirt or poloshirt for gentlemen. Shorts and swimwear are not allowed in the restaurant
• Formal:
  Evening gown, cocktail dress or pantsuits for ladies, suit, combination or dinner jackets for gentlemen.

 

Seems you missed something in your post. Or you deleted it.   

now granted. I’m a shorts wearer     I never wear pants.     
live been on 25 cruises and never worn pants.  All RC NCL CCL.  
 

and I will do the same on my first Princess cruise in 2 weeks.   
Pic of my formal wear and never been denied to enter.  

 

 

 

[Steelers36]

Another many folks constantly overlook is the other section on clothing that Princess publishes on their website under "What to Pack".  There is a pop-up screen of more details and in there is a much more loose (for lack of a better word) description of what can be suitable for dining than what is on the Dress Recommendations page. 

 

It has been copy/pasted dozens of times by various CC posters.  Hardly needs to be done again.

 

 

And, we are now at the point in this thread where it is likely to be locked and deleted like so many of its predecessors.  Perhaps if one or two of these were left just locked, we wouldn't be doing this over and over and over again. 

[sloopsailor]

1 minute ago, Ptroxx said:

Seems you missed something in your post. Or you deleted it.   

now granted. I’m a shorts wearer     I never wear pants.     
live been on 25 cruises and never worn pants.  All RC NCL CCL.  
 

and I will do the same on my first Princess cruise in 2 weeks.   
Pic of my formal wear and never been denied to enter.  

 

 

 

 

It's there in my copy of the statement. There was no editing done. It was posted in full. 

 

Regarding your photo - I think you are quite underdressed. The ensemble you are wearing requires white shoelaces, per the imaginary "rules" that some are insisting on. I wouldn't allow you in until those shoelaces were regulation. LOL!

[Ptroxx]

8 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

 

It's there in my copy of the statement. There was no editing done. It was posted in full. 

 

Regarding your photo - I think you are quite underdressed. The ensemble you are wearing requires white shoelaces, per the imaginary "rules" that some are insisting on. I wouldn't allow you in until those shoelaces were regulation. LOL!

I stand corrected.       And I’ll order some shoelaces for my cruise in 2 weeks on the discovery.  Lol 

[Doug R.]

Public Service Announcement: Everyone Just Stop! This has been argued in a new thread just about every week with no resolution then, not now and never will!

[rbtan]

21 hours ago, ohmandi said:

We love the formal nights and find it sad the people don't dress up anymore. Like you said that is what the "Cruise Experience" is supposed to be.  Used to be fun to see people dressed to the 9's in formal dresses and tuxedos or suits/ties.   Even the waitstaff wears their tuxedos.  My wife has the best suit and bow tie collection right down to matching shoes.  People always comment on her outfits.  It's fun to pick out the suits before the cruise.   We love to dress up and will continue to do so.   Maybe on formal nights they should have one dining room for the dressed up and the other dining room for the dressed down!

That's been mentioned & the dress down group have pretty much said they will show up anyway. You do still see a lot of Pax who still make an effort. Don't let the others try to ruin it for you.

[rbtan]

57 minutes ago, Ptroxx said:

Seems you missed something in your post. Or you deleted it.   

now granted. I’m a shorts wearer     I never wear pants.     
live been on 25 cruises and never worn pants.  All RC NCL CCL.  
 

and I will do the same on my first Princess cruise in 2 weeks.   
Pic of my formal wear and never been denied to enter.  

 

 

 

Glad I'm not there to make a

 

6 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

 

There is much to commend about both of these statements.  To me, the "Cruise Experience" is 3,000 people enjoying themselves, leaving their cares behind, enjoying all that life has to offer, loving the time they are spending with their travel companion(s) as well as the fresh air on the open sea.  There is no one set of rules that will result in all 3,000 people achieving that level of Nirvana.  Each person has to be allowed some leeway in order for all to achieve the level of bliss they seek and which for they are paying. 

 

Which brings us to the second statement.  For reasons unbeknownst to me, at some point in time many cruise lines (including PCL) decided that on certain nights or in certain venues, cruise passengers should pretend that they are the Vanderbilts,  Mellons and Carnegies and all dress up "Downton Abbey" style as if they were on a transatlantic crossing on a White Star or Cunard ship.  I have no idea how or why anyone decided that after spending a day in St. Thomas or Juneau, passengers needed to or wanted to play dress-up as if they were having an audience with King Edward.  But along came the statement in the cruise literature: "We kindly request that you..."  Now, sometimes that is followed by "refrain from smoking" and sometimes it is followed by "adhere to the dress code for the evening."  It always seemed odd to me that people who understand the former to be a "rule" and not a mere "suggestion" should find the latter to be a "suggestion" and not a "rule".  To me they stand on equal footing. 

 

But that was then and this is now.  Airlines started limiting baggage allowances and charging exorbitant fees for checked bags. The digital world necessitates that we pack more electronic than ever before.  Business rarely require suits so many people have grown out of the last one they bought 10 years ago.  (Guilty!)  Tuxedos are rarely required for ANYTHING, and odds are that if you own one, the last 10 times you wore it was on a cruise. (Guilty again...until I grew out of it!)  So the idea that one should add $1,000+ to their wardrobe just so that the can play: "Look at me! I'm Lord Crawley!!" while on a cruise in the Caribbean is silly beyond words.  But it is incumbent upon Princess to bite that final bullet and eliminate the "We kindly request..." aspect of Formal Nights, (assuming that they still use that phrasing.)  Just say in the Patter that professional photographers will be out and about the ship tonight so tonight is your chance to shine and look your best if that is your jam.  (Though I doubt Princess will ever say "jam").  But you get the idea.  I suspect that "Dress To Impress" is Princess' way of sliding into the future at the pace of the Mendenhall Glacier.  But the lack of any enforcement of the requested dress brings me back to my comment about "rules" and "suggestions".  If you started smoking in a place where you weren't supposed to, I have no doubt that you would be reprimanded as the "rule" would be enforced.  If you show up at the MDR in jeans and a golf shirt on Formal Night and are shown to a table, then the "rule" is not enforced, and at this point it becomes simply a "suggestion."  And when a rule becomes a suggestion, no one has any right to cry foul at another passenger.  If you have a beef, take it up with the cruise line.  But as far as the passengers are concerned, we are back to 3,000 people enjoying themselves, leaving their cares behind, enjoying all that life has to offer, loving the time they are spending with their travel companion(s) as well as the fresh air on the open sea.  

First off you'll seldom see formal nights on port nights. Most are on sea days. As to dress code suggestions, I guess certain for certain "gentlemen" the words "Please follow the dress codes for the enjoyment of others" is a meaningless phrase as it's all about them.

[rbtan]

1 hour ago, Potstech said:

If it was a "Rule" then it would be enforced by Princess. It is not enforced so it is not a rule.

You're very well know on this site. If it was a "rule", would you follow it or still try to ignore it & see what you can get away with

[rbtan]

1 hour ago, Ptroxx said:

Seems you missed something in your post. Or you deleted it.   

now granted. I’m a shorts wearer     I never wear pants.     
live been on 25 cruises and never worn pants.  All RC NCL CCL.  
 

and I will do the same on my first Princess cruise in 2 weeks.   
Pic of my formal wear and never been denied to enter.  

 

 

 

If we saw you, my spouse would most certainly complain very loudly to the Maître.  Breakfast or lunch, fine, but dressing slovenly on formal night, I think you may find yourself sent to either at least do proper smart casual or sent to the buffet.

[rbtan]

1 hour ago, Ptroxx said:

Seems you missed something in your post. Or you deleted it.   

now granted. I’m a shorts wearer     I never wear pants.     
live been on 25 cruises and never worn pants.  All RC NCL CCL.  
 

and I will do the same on my first Princess cruise in 2 weeks.   
Pic of my formal wear and never been denied to enter.  

 

 

 

This is why we do a table for 2. We'd never allow anyone to sit at our table dressed like that on formal night.

[PrincessLuver]

Amazing how everyone is talking about how dressing formal raises the bar but they have no problem rolling in the mud and slinging insults at those who disagree with them.....very hypocritical IMHO.

[Phantom of the Seas]

You may be me......

[Potstech]

2 hours ago, Doug R. said:

Public Service Announcement: Everyone Just Stop! This has been argued in a new thread just about every week with no resolution then, not now and never will!

Never gonna happen. They will continue as long as someone asks the triggering question.

[MissP22]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:16 PM, ohmandi said:

 Maybe on formal nights they should have one dining room for the dressed up and the other dining room for the dressed down!

It's been suggested for years now (on CC) and just can't be done. Princess doesn't have the crew nor the DR space to accommodate the 2 groups so their solution to the situation has recently changed to that of just letting people decide for themselves what is appropriate.

 

If people enjoy dressing up, then it can still give then the same satisfaction without having to force others to conform to a "standard" of dress. This is similar to what other cruise lines have begun quite a while ago. 

[mtnesterz]

@Ptroxx 

"....live been on 25 cruises and never worn pants.  All RC NCL CCL."
 In March, saw someone refused for shorts, T-short, ball cap.

Princess does draw a line that is not there on RCL, NCL or CCL. 

People are contentious here about what should be acceptable, but I would not want you to be one of those refused. Consider packing a collared shirt and long pants.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by mtnesterz

[rbtan]

1 hour ago, MissP22 said:

It's been suggested for years now (on CC) and just can't be done. Princess doesn't have the crew nor the DR space to accommodate the 2 groups so their solution to the situation has recently changed to that of just letting people decide for themselves what is appropriate.

 

If people enjoy dressing up, then it can still give then the same satisfaction without having to force others to conform to a "standard" of dress. This is similar to what other cruise lines have begun quite a while ago. 

I still think that with multiple MDR's that the line can certainly make one a enforced dresscode dining venue. Doesn't have to be tuxes, but at least an enforceable code to keep a certain level of dress for those who like to dress up. It's obvious that staff doesn't like to say no, for fear of upsetting a "guest". I just hope that the staff has enough courage & pax have the same to point out the "shorts" guy who will try to push the envelope to see what he can get away with. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by rbtan
additions