Delta more expensive even this far ahead?

[OnTheJourney]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:10 PM, travelplus said:

Business Class is way too expensive.   

I have to agree, and yet I've about reached the point where I figure I'll likely be doing a fairly limited amount of international air travel in the future so...why not go for it. It spoils you real quick. The first time we did it was a free upgrade - no idea why that happened. Second time was to do longhaul down to Buenos Aires. Argentine Airlines had a much cheaper B-class price than I've typically seen and, again, it was really nice. So I'm strongly considering it for our upcoming transatlantic. Getting tired of not being able to get any sleep even in premium economy (which can vary greatly - we just did a cruise where the PE going over was great, but coming back was crappy. I paid alot extra and wound up with the same amenities as the people in the back of the plane. Complained about it and got some money back from United.

 

It's all economies of scale. Some folks will splurge for a Mercedes S-class or Tesla, and others will feel it's simply way overpriced. Same with using 4-5 star hotels or restaurants versus cheaper. Certainly it ultimately boils down to budget and affordability, but for too many years I was of the mind that something like B-class is just too much to spend for an airline flight. Age changes one's perspective I'm finding. In looking back I wish I would have had upgraded seats for most longhaul we've done. The one plane we used to cross the pond, in economy, was in no way suited for longhaul. I'll think about that one while reclining in B-class next time. 

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Also, "Can't take it with ya."  😉

Edited August 7, 2022 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:25 PM, Ashland said:

I booked my DL One for LAX-AMS in early/mid 2021 for my July 2022 (this Friday) flight. Got it for $3200.00 for the two of us...which I think was a great deal.

Wow! That's a terrific price. I'm finding around $3800 pp right now roundtrip over to Rome and back again from Athens. About another grand if making it a refundable ticket. 

[Ashland]

On 8/7/2022 at 4:19 PM, OnTheJourney said:

Wow! That's a terrific price. I'm finding around $3800 pp right now roundtrip over to Rome and back again from Athens. About another grand if making it a refundable ticket. 

Just returned from my flight and yes it was a great deal and so worth it !!!

[WAshgirl]

I have been watching flights for PDX to VCE, then BCN to PDX for months now. Our travel agent said to wait until about 6 months out to book flights so i am hoping the prices drop a bit. We would love to book Delta One, but right now its $3600 each! Ouch! That pretty much equals the cost of our cruise!

[OnTheJourney]

22 hours ago, WAshgirl said:

$3600 each!

That's pretty much the cost I found for flights next January. I experimented with different dates to see how the prices change. I discovered that unless I chose dates that are within the next few weeks, going out several months or more didn't make much difference. It moreso often depends on how full the plane is. Like keeping tabs on the cost of cruises, similarly doing the same for flights can drive you crazy. One thing I don't do is...once I book...I don't research them anymore. I don't want to know if I either paid more or less than the current pricing. Doesn't matter at that point! Sort of like trying to time the markets. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by OnTheJourney

[rkacruiser]

34 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Like keeping tabs on the cost of cruises, similarly doing the same for flights can drive you crazy. One thing I don't do is...once I book...I don't research them anymore. I don't want to know if I either paid more or less than the current pricing. Doesn't matter at that point! Sort of like trying to time the markets. 

 

I agree.  If I get the flight itinerary that is my first choice and have seat assignments and the flights are what I am willing to pay,  I stop worrying about the price.  I do keep an eye on cruise prices, but, I have sailed on very few cruises were the cruises were re-priced.  

[Azulann]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:45 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

I agree.  If I get the flight itinerary that is my first choice and have seat assignments and the flights are what I am willing to pay,  I stop worrying about the price.  I do keep an eye on cruise prices, but, I have sailed on very few cruises were the cruises were re-priced.  

Agree!

My sister and I just booked  multi city route for  our Viking cruise in June. MSP -AMS to Stockholm. Return is  from Copenhagen to AMS -MSP.  Delta /KLM, got nice long layovers and no getting up at crack of dawn for predawn flights. 

We are happy , but this the most I have spent on European flights from the Midwest.

So be it.  It is better in my mind than the Viking Air plus and not  getting the same route for less money. 

Hope the airports are better staffed come next summer. 

 

[MSUjohn]

17 hours ago, Azulann said:

Agree!

My sister and I just booked  multi city route for  our Viking cruise in June. MSP -AMS to Stockholm. Return is  from Copenhagen to AMS -MSP.  Delta /KLM, got nice long layovers and no getting up at crack of dawn for predawn flights. 

We are happy , but this the most I have spent on European flights from the Midwest.

So be it.  It is better in my mind than the Viking Air plus and not  getting the same route for less money. 

Hope the airports are better staffed come next summer. 

 

i tried booking a flight from detroit to jfk Nov/Dec R/T was $2500 for two people....coach.

 

i have noticed that flights to Europe from dtw are maybe 30-60% more expensive

Edited September 19, 2022 by MSUjohn

[rkacruiser]

19 hours ago, Azulann said:

I just booked  multi city route for  our Viking cruise in June. MSP -AMS to Stockholm. Return is  from Copenhagen to AMS -MSP.  Delta /KLM,

 

Are any of your international flights operated by KLM?  If so, based on my experience in Economy, the food and service was much better than I have experienced on Delta is the same Class.  I can only imagine what the Business Class passengers experienced on my flight (ATL to AMS).  

[Azulann]

MSUjohn,,

Our   economy air  for Delta flights to and from AMS , and our KLM flights to Stockholm and for Conenhagen to AMS, is $1900 .pp. TOTAL . We booked through Delta vacations and also did three night hotel stay in Stockholm  pre cruise. the hotel is extra. These tickets are exchangeable. for a fee.

Good luck to you on finding  a flight that does not break the bank  this winter . 

rkacruiser,

The KLM flights are within  Europe, short flights. The Delta flight is  the long haul to and from MSP.  I did like the food on my previous KLM flights. They have great bread, nice wine.  

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Azulann

[JM0115]

19 hours ago, Azulann said:

MSUjohn,,

Our   economy air  for Delta flights to and from AMS , and our KLM flights to Stockholm and for Conenhagen to AMS, is $1900 .pp. TOTAL . We booked through Delta vacations and also did three night hotel stay in Stockholm  pre cruise. the hotel is extra. These tickets are exchangeable. for a fee.

Good luck to you on finding  a flight that does not break the bank  this winter . 

rkacruiser,

The KLM flights are within  Europe, short flights. The Delta flight is  the long haul to and from MSP.  I did like the food on my previous KLM flights. They have great bread, nice wine.  

 

Azulann, this is not related to this post, but I saw in another post that you have stayed and like stateroom 4123, an aft facing cabin.  We would like to stay in an aft facing cabin.  What are the pros and cons please?

[Azulann]

18 minutes ago, JM0115 said:

Azulann, this is not related to this post, but I saw in another post that you have stayed and like stateroom 4123, an aft facing cabin.  We would like to stay in an aft facing cabin.  What are the pros and cons please?

Loved  that aft cabin! Best view of wake cruising at night,  arriving in port in  morning  have a nice room service  breakfast on the balcony .  4123 is  end of hall  and next to Explorer suite, very quiet, no hall traffic.  Con: It is a bit of a  walk to the  nearest elevator, and the laundry room is  on Port side a long way toward the front. This DV1 is the same size as all other DV cabins, just a super location.

Book it and enjoy. Bar waiters loved our room number, easy to remember: (4 pause 123)when you have the  Silver Spirit package. LOL

 On this  next trip we are  down in a DV 6. 

[zdcatc12]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:23 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

Are any of your international flights operated by KLM?  If so, based on my experience in Economy, the food and service was much better than I have experienced on Delta is the same Class.  I can only imagine what the Business Class passengers experienced on my flight (ATL to AMS).  

Agree, I have noticed better service on ALL non-US airlines. I was on an 80 minute flight last week from CPT-JNB on Lift, an African low-cost carrier and we got a croissant for breakfast!!! Not much, but a lot better than you would get in coach, or probably first class, on any US airline on a flight that long.

[HomerGuy]

Airfare is just crazy right now.  Our closest airport is a major Delta hub, and we therefore tend to fly Delta nearly all of the time because they fly direct to nearly every destination.  

 

We have been looking at domestic airfare for a cruise that departs about 160 days from now, and the prices are just nuts.  More than we paid for the cruise fare.  We booked the cruise well before the the airfare booking window even opened, and we've been tracking prices since the Delta schedules were released.  Prices are high and haven't budged.  We are currently waiting it out, hoping that airfare comes down as we get closer.  The prices are not high because of demand.  Look at a seat map and  the entire plane is empty.  We are long term planners and early purchasers, so not having airfare booked already is stressing us out a little.  It is just not what we are used to.

[OnTheJourney]

4 hours ago, HomerGuy said:

We are long term planners and early purchasers, so not having airfare booked already is stressing us out a little.  It is just not what we are used to.

I agree. I also like to plan and book early. Prices are pretty crazy, but once I book I don't look at it anymore to see if I paid more or less than the going rate. Once paid, it'd be nice to know that there's a reasonably good chance that the itinerary won't change, but can't count on that now. 

[OnTheJourney]

4 hours ago, HomerGuy said:

they fly direct to nearly every destination.  

Are you talking domestic or long-haul? 

[Zach1213]

5 hours ago, HomerGuy said:

Airfare is just crazy right now.  Our closest airport is a major Delta hub, and we therefore tend to fly Delta nearly all of the time because they fly direct to nearly every destination.  

 

We have been looking at domestic airfare for a cruise that departs about 160 days from now, and the prices are just nuts.  More than we paid for the cruise fare.  We booked the cruise well before the the airfare booking window even opened, and we've been tracking prices since the Delta schedules were released.  Prices are high and haven't budged.  We are currently waiting it out, hoping that airfare comes down as we get closer.  The prices are not high because of demand.  Look at a seat map and  the entire plane is empty.  We are long term planners and early purchasers, so not having airfare booked already is stressing us out a little.  It is just not what we are used to.

 

Hmmm, I posted a long-ish response but it seems like it never posted so I'll post a short version of it:

 

1) Airfares are trending down, and are sometimes surprisingly cheap. I did a quick trip up to Chicago this past weekend, and the airfare from Kansas City was $89 each day when booked about four weeks out. 

2) Cruise fares and air fares have no correlation, and there's no "rule" (for lack of a better term) that one should be cheaper than the other. They run on extremely different economic models. 

3) Seat maps are not a good indication of the true load factor. Tickets can be sold without seat assignments, so demand may be much higher than it appears just looking at the seat map. 

[6rugrats]

6 hours ago, HomerGuy said:

Airfare is just crazy right now.  Our closest airport is a major Delta hub, and we therefore tend to fly Delta nearly all of the time because they fly direct to nearly every destination.  

 

We have been looking at domestic airfare for a cruise that departs about 160 days from now, and the prices are just nuts.  More than we paid for the cruise fare.  We booked the cruise well before the the airfare booking window even opened, and we've been tracking prices since the Delta schedules were released.  Prices are high and haven't budged.  We are currently waiting it out, hoping that airfare comes down as we get closer.  The prices are not high because of demand.  Look at a seat map and  the entire plane is empty.  We are long term planners and early purchasers, so not having airfare booked already is stressing us out a little.  It is just not what we are used to.

Seat maps are not a reliable indicator of loads; you have no idea of demand by looking at seat maps.  If your flight leaves in March, you are getting into Spring Break time which means high flight prices.  Many airlines have reduced flight schedules, and most flights are flying full or pretty close to it.  I would not expect to see prices go down in March, but I have no crystal ball.  DL seems to often have higher prices than other carriers.  You may want to check out flights with connections on another airline to find lower prices.

Edited September 26, 2022 by 6rugrats

[Globaliser]

8 hours ago, HomerGuy said:

The prices are not high because of demand.  Look at a seat map and  the entire plane is empty.

 

3 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

3) Seat maps are not a good indication of the true load factor. Tickets can be sold without seat assignments, so demand may be much higher than it appears just looking at the seat map. 

 

2 hours ago, 6rugrats said:

Seat maps are not a reliable indicator of loads; you have no idea of demand by looking at seat maps.

 

In addition to what Zach1213 and 6rugrats have said, prices are more likely to be a reflection of currently-predicted future demand. Even if a seat map were a good indication of the level of existing bookings (which it is not), that would only tell you what historical demand (translated into current bookings) has been for that flight. It's the wrong measurement for current pricing.

 

In other words, unless you're an expert working in the industry, don't rely on being able to work out why (or why not) any particular flight is currently priced the way it is.

[HomerGuy]

19 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

Are you talking domestic or long-haul? 

 

Domestic.  And with two kids, the non-stop is much preferred.  Historically, Delta was always a little bit of a premium, but the number of non-stop time options made it worth it.  Times have changed for sure.

 

18 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Hmmm, I posted a long-ish response but it seems like it never posted so I'll post a short version of it:

 

1) Airfares are trending down, and are sometimes surprisingly cheap. I did a quick trip up to Chicago this past weekend, and the airfare from Kansas City was $89 each day when booked about four weeks out. 

2) Cruise fares and air fares have no correlation, and there's no "rule" (for lack of a better term) that one should be cheaper than the other. They run on extremely different economic models. 

3) Seat maps are not a good indication of the true load factor. Tickets can be sold without seat assignments, so demand may be much higher than it appears just looking at the seat map. 

 

We have been watching the prices regularly, waiting for a fall.  Fingers crossed it happens.  The airfare prices are currently at a level that we would likely reschedule the cruise (and pay the penalty) or drive to the port.  It just gets to a point where the cost simply isn't justifiable for us, and while we would be disappointed, we are also ok with that.

 

Totally understand that there is no correlation between airfare and cruise fare.  This is the first time we have ever booked a cruise so far out that airfare was not available to book at the time.  Usually we look at cruise fare and airfare in conjunction with one another.  Unfortunately we did not this time and it kind of came back to bite us.

 

Good to know about the seat maps, I will not use that metric any more.

 

15 hours ago, Globaliser said:

 

 

 

In addition to what Zach1213 and 6rugrats have said, prices are more likely to be a reflection of currently-predicted future demand. Even if a seat map were a good indication of the level of existing bookings (which it is not), that would only tell you what historical demand (translated into current bookings) has been for that flight. It's the wrong measurement for current pricing.

 

In other words, unless you're an expert working in the industry, don't rely on being able to work out why (or why not) any particular flight is currently priced the way it is.

 

Point taken!

 

I've definitely started to broaden my airfare search, now looking at airports within a 2-4 hour drive that might offer alternative options.  We've been so spoiled by living near a Delta hub that I've never once considered doing such a thing.

Edited September 27, 2022 by HomerGuy

[OnTheJourney]

3 minutes ago, HomerGuy said:

And with two kids, the non-stop is much preferred.

non-stop preferred even without kids!!  

 

4 minutes ago, HomerGuy said:

The airfare prices are currently at a level that we would likely reschedule the cruise (and pay the penalty) or drive to the port.  It just gets to a point where the cost simply isn't justifiable for us, and while we would be disappointed, we are also ok with that.

Makes sense, though sorry to hear you'd have to make such major changes to your plans. Things have indeed changed. What amazed me is some of the totally insane connection times for certain destinations I've had to research of late. 13-18 hours layover between flights?  Seriously?  I've seen some totally bizarre combinations of flights even for domestic. Madness. 

[MSUjohn]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:23 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

Are any of your international flights operated by KLM?  If so, based on my experience in Economy, the food and service was much better than I have experienced on Delta is the same Class.  I can only imagine what the Business Class passengers experienced on my flight (ATL to AMS).  

 

On 9/22/2022 at 5:28 PM, zdcatc12 said:

Agree, I have noticed better service on ALL non-US airlines. I was on an 80 minute flight last week from CPT-JNB on Lift, an African low-cost carrier and we got a croissant for breakfast!!! Not much, but a lot better than you would get in coach, or probably first class, on any US airline on a flight that long.

 

Delta, at least in economy is as good as any European airline on transatlantic. delta is as good or better than any (i am looking at you speedbird) when comparing US domestic to intra Europe. 

[Zach1213]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:28 PM, zdcatc12 said:

Agree, I have noticed better service on ALL non-US airlines. 

 

I don't know, I've had...interesting...experiences on a couple of now defunct sub-saharan African airlines, including one flight where a guy sat on a bail of hay and there was a donkey on board. I kid you not. Also flown on Air Koryo which, I must admit, was better than expected. 

[MSUjohn]

3 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

I don't know, I've had...interesting...experiences on a couple of now defunct sub-saharan African airlines, including one flight where a guy sat on a bail of hay and there was a donkey on board. I kid you not. Also flown on Air Koryo which, I must admit, was better than expected. 

the fact that you got to ride on Air Koryo is pretty cool.

[mikaula]

I agree airfare is crazy. I’m looking at around $800 to fly from LAX to MIA or FL for our cruise. I’m seriously considering changing to a different cruise date. There are 3 of us going and it sure adds up.