Back to back cruisers must leave ship in Victoria.

[jimbob312]

We booked back to back with rcl a few months ago. Same cabin both legs due to leave in two weeks. 7 day Seattle to Alaska with a 6 hr stop in Victoria on return to Vancouver. Leaving Vancouver same day for 10 day to Hawaii. 
 

rcl just informed us that because of Jones act, we have to get off quantum in Victoria and stay overnight and then make our own way to Vancouver and get back on ship with all the related issues that entails.

 

it’s ok for the ship to sail but not people.

 

just a heads up to future cruisers

[njhorseman]

Other than your cruise line citing the wrong law they are correct. The applicable law is the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA), not the Jones Act.  The Jones Act applies to the transportation of cargo, the PVSA applies to the transportation of people.

 

Royal Caribbean should never have permitted you to book your B2B.  Are they providing any compensation for the expense and inconvenience you're going to have to bear as a result of their error?

[princeton123211]

26 minutes ago, jimbob312 said:

rcl just informed us that because of Jones act, we have to get off quantum in Victoria and stay overnight and then make our own way to Vancouver and get back on ship with all the related issues that entails.

We didn't have this exact situation before, but we did travel overland/sea from Seattle to Victoria and then Victoria to Vancouver. I agree with NJhorseman that you should get some sort of credit or offer to cover some or all of this cost-- they shouldn't have let you book this the way that it is. 

 

Biggest thing to keep in mind is that getting from Victoria to Vancouver involves a lot more driving than you would think (or at least we thought at the time)-- the BC ferry does not leave from downtown Victoria and does not arrive in downtown Vancouver. 

 

You'll need to get a taxi/uber from Victoria (where you'll presumably stay over) to Swartz Bay which is a little over a half hour drive. From there you'll take ferry to Tsawwassen Ferry terminal which is south of Vancouver proper. The ride from there to Canada place to meet your ship is at least a full 45 minutes. 

 

It's not insurmountable logistics but will take some planning and will cost you a bit obviously with the hotel/meals but also ground transportation. It'll add up.

 

Our mistake from a time planning standpoint (which is the main reason I'm responding to this) when we did it was assuming we were coming directly into Vancouver proper which you do not. 

 

It's not all bad news though-- the Empress Hotel is lovely and Victoria is a great place to overnight that most cruise guests don't get a chance to do. 

[Ferry_Watcher]

Similar situation on the final Celebrity Solstice sailing leaving Seattle, which is ending it's Alaska season in Vancouver, BC.  From Vancouver the Solstice was heading down the coast to Los Angeles.  Celebrity reached out to passengers who were booked B2B and told them they had to disembark in Victoria, spend a night in a hotel, then embark the next day in Vancouver for the coastal cruise.  Some passengers who Celebrity were not able to notify were told at Seattle's Pier 91 check-in.

 

I think it's a small price to pay (hotel and local transportation) to save a 2 week B2B cruise.

[d9704011]

Check out the bus connections between Victoria and Vancouver.

 

https://bcfconnector.com/

Edited September 11, 2022 by d9704011

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Check out the bus connections between Victoria and Vancouver.

 

https://bcfconnector.com/

BTW, you may want to consider taking the bus immediately to a hotel in Vancouver (or near the airport) so that you are pre-positioned to join the ship the next day without having to make a mad dash from Vic to Van.

[1025cruise]

You should never have been allowed to book this B2B in the first place.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

Similar situation on the final Celebrity Solstice sailing leaving Seattle, which is ending it's Alaska season in Vancouver, BC.  From Vancouver the Solstice was heading down the coast to Los Angeles.  Celebrity reached out to passengers who were booked B2B and told them they had to disembark in Victoria, spend a night in a hotel, then embark the next day in Vancouver for the coastal cruise.  Some passengers who Celebrity were not able to notify were told at Seattle's Pier 91 check-in.

 

I think it's a small price to pay (hotel and local transportation) to save a 2 week B2B cruise.

I don't think "It's a small price to pay" because the cruise line had no business permitting the booking to begin with, or at the very least they should have disclosed the problems associated with the itinerary before allowing passengers to book, which would allow potential passengers to make an informed decision about whether to book or not. 

It's not as if the PVSA is a new law...it's been on the books since 1886.

[Ferry_Watcher]

It's better than telling passengers that that the second cruise of their B2B is being administratively canceled by the cruise line.  That would mess with a person's vacation time, and in many cases, airline ticketing.

 

So yes, I think that what the cruise lines offered as an alternative to 'save' a B2B cruise is more than reasonable.

[koolforkatz]

I would suggest taking a seaplane from Victoria Harbour to downtown Vancouver. Fast and a beautiful flight. And I would send RCL the bill. 

 

https://harbourair.com/promos/flights-between-downtown-vancouver-and-victoria/

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

It's better than telling passengers that that the second cruise of their B2B is being administratively canceled by the cruise line.  That would mess with a person's vacation time, and in many cases, airline ticketing.

 

So yes, I think that what the cruise lines offered as an alternative to 'save' a B2B cruise is more than reasonable.

It's not reasonable unless the cruise line is at a minimum reimbursing you for the additional money you will be required to spend for a hotel, meals, and transportation from Victoria to Vancouver. As a matter of goodwill they should also be offering something beyond reimbursement for the named expenses, such as an onboard credit or a small credit toward a future cruise.

 

You do understand that they made an error by allowing passengers to book an illegal itinerary and that error caused passengers additional expense and inconvenience. This is not something that was out of the cruise line's control, such as weather or a labor dispute, it was the direct result of the incompetence of the cruise line's corporate office staff.

[Ferry_Watcher]

 

As someone who checks in cruise passengers, I would rather direct passengers to the pier coordinator who has to explain that they (passengers) need to disembark a day early and make their way from one British Columbia city to a nearby BC city in order for them to legally continue on the 2nd leg of their cruise vacation. I can't imagine working at the check-in counter and witnessing passengers being told that they are unable to remain on the ship for the second leg of their cruise due to an active, but arcane maritime law.

 

I still think its a small price to pay in the greater scheme of life.   I see the cruise line's solution (disembark in Victoria) as a win-win for both the passenger and the guest relations team.  I think if you can afford a B2B cruise, you most likely have the recourses and the wherewithal to make it work.

 

I think we will just have to agree to disagree my friend!   :  )

[Urban trekker]

I wonder if some of the cruises being talked about were booked while the PVSA was suspended and this is the only way to get around it being re-instated. 

Victoria to be best of my knowledge has never been a port where you can disembark - is RCL ensuring their are CBSA on duty.

Dennis

[princeton123211]

1 hour ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

I still think its a small price to pay in the greater scheme of life.   I see the cruise line's solution (disembark in Victoria) as a win-win for both the passenger and the guest relations team.  I think if you can afford a B2B cruise, you most likely have the recourses and the wherewithal to make it work.

It's not really a win for anyone-- the cruise line is clearly in the wrong and are offering a makeshift solution, at the time and monetary expense of their guests they wrongly booked into this scenario, to try and rectify it. Outside of them providing some substantive compensation for that there is no "guest relations" at all here-- just poor customer service to try and cover up their mistake. 

 

It's irrelevant our assumptions about whether these impacted passengers do or don't possess the resources or capability of leaving overnight and then rejoining the ship the next day. They could be significantly physically disabled. This could have been a tightly budgeted once in a lifetime trip for them. It doesn't change the fact that the cruise line is at fault here. 

 

Thinking out loud without fully knowing if this would make it compliant, if they really wanted to try and make things right, why not cut the stop in Victoria short and divert the ship south that night for a courtesy stop in Seattle for a few hours before sailing north to Vancouver? 

[em-sk]

 

The BC Ferries Connector bus service is likely your best bet.  Slower than flying but you have time.  The pickup is in downtown Victoria and you have your choice of several drop off location in downtown Vancouver.  

 

The Heliject service is fantastic (departs from near the crush ship terminal in Victoria and arrives near Waterfront station in downtown Vancouver.  They have a free shuttle bus at both ends that will take you to where ever you want to go in the downtown core.   The float plans (Harbor Air) is also good however it departs from downtown Victoria and arrives at the convention center (one pier over from the cruse ship terminal).  The one problem with Helijet and Harbour Air is baggage is limited.   If the cruise line lets you keep your bags on the ship this is not a problem.   

 

I would push the cruise line for an onboard credit equal to the cost of one of these services and the hotel.

Edited September 12, 2022 by em-sk

[em-sk]

1 hour ago, Urban trekker said:

I wonder if some of the cruises being talked about were booked while the PVSA was suspended and this is the only way to get around it being re-instated. 

Victoria to be best of my knowledge has never been a port where you can disembark - is RCL ensuring their are CBSA on duty.

Dennis

 

CBSA clears the ship into Canada in Victoria, otherwise passengers would not be able to get off the ship and visit the city for the stop.  

 

I would not expect CBSA entry into Canada to be a problem.  There are several ferry services between downtown Victoria and the US. Float plane service from downtown Victoria to Seattle.  Private boats/ships or float planes use Victoria as a port of entry into Canada all the time, when that happens the CBSA meet the boat at the relevant marina if they can't do it virtually for some reason.

 

I have been at the Airport in Victoria where it is swamped with cruise ship travels connecting on to charter flights back to the US.  It is extremely rare but does happen.  Not certain which cruise ship line that would have been.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by em-sk

[em-sk]

1 hour ago, princeton123211 said:

 

Thinking out loud without fully knowing if this would make it compliant, if they really wanted to try and make things right, why not cut the stop in Victoria short and divert the ship south that night for a courtesy stop in Seattle for a few hours before sailing north to Vancouver? 

 

That would make customs more complex for everyone.   

 

To perform the stop in Victoria the cruise lines need to clear the ship (and all the passengers) into Canada.   The sailing from Victoria to Vancouver would then be domestic and would not require Canadian border control in Vancouver when everyone else leaves the ship.

 

Introducing a stop in Seattle, would invoice the ship leaving Canada when it sales from Victoria, getting cleared into the US in Seattle.  Then getting cleared back into Canada when it arrives in Vancouver. 

 

[CruiserBruce]

The issue is a ship cannot transport a passenger from one US port (Seattle) to another ( Honolulu) without a stop in a DISTANT ( Canada is not "distant") foreign port.

 

So, everyone doing this B2B ( curious how many people are impacted by this) MUST get off the ship for a day, and MUST board in Vancouver on a different day from the one they got off the ship. That is the rule. 

 

If the first cruise of the B2B had been a roundtrip Vancouver, they would be fine. But starting in Seattle is tripping them up. If the Hawaii cruise was a 15 day roundtrip out of Seattle,  they wouldn't have a problem. The fact the Hawaii cruise is ending in Hawaii is another tripping point.

[njhorseman]

9 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

 

Thinking out loud without fully knowing if this would make it compliant, if they really wanted to try and make things right, why not cut the stop in Victoria short and divert the ship south that night for a courtesy stop in Seattle for a few hours before sailing north to Vancouver?

That wouldn't make it compliant because it would still be a cruise from one US port in Alaska to another in Hawaii. As @CruiserBrucesaid, that itinerary requires a call at a distant foreign port. There are no distant foreign ports within a reasonable distance of this itinerary. The ship would have to go at least a week out of its way to get to a distant foreign port.

Edited September 12, 2022 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

9 hours ago, Urban trekker said:

I wonder if some of the cruises being talked about were booked while the PVSA was suspended and this is the only way to get around it being re-instated. 

Victoria to be best of my knowledge has never been a port where you can disembark - is RCL ensuring their are CBSA on duty.

Dennis

The 2021 PVSA exemption was very limited and  only permitted ships to do  Alaska cruises from a US port without making a foreign port call because Canada's ports were closed to cruise ships. A cruise to Hawaii would not have fallen under that limited PVSA exemption, and the itinerary under discussion includes Canadian ports.

[lax19]

What if the B2B passengers disembark in Victoria before midnight and the ship remains in Victoria until after midnight. The B2B passengers re-embark after midnight (new day) and the cruise continues as scheduled.

[CruiserBruce]

14 minutes ago, lax19 said:

What if the B2B passengers disembark in Victoria before midnight and the ship remains in Victoria until after midnight. The B2B passengers re-embark after midnight (new day) and the cruise continues as scheduled.

I doubt the affected government agency would frown on a scheme to defraud or deceive that agency.

 

This problem is not new. I know other cruise lines have had similar problems,  although not this late in the process. 

[1025cruise]

At least the OP was presented a solution to take both cruises. Normally, the second cruise is cancelled.

[julia]

On 9/11/2022 at 2:16 PM, d9704011 said:

BTW, you may want to consider taking the bus immediately to a hotel in Vancouver (or near the airport) so that you are pre-positioned to join the ship the next day without having to make a mad dash from Vic to Van.

Very sage advice.... also, there's much more lodging and dining in Van than Vic.

 

@Ferry Watcher  Wow, I can't imagine getting that late news at the pier....  I bet a few people were pretty upset!

[Ferry_Watcher]

8 hours ago, julia said:

Wow, I can't imagine getting that late news at the pier....  I bet a few people were pretty upset!

 

Hello my friend!

The cruise line tried to contact passengers prior to embarkation, but for whatever reason some folks didn't learn about the B2B problem until they got to check-in.  I think there was shock, annoyance, then acceptance that the second half of the B2B cruise could be salvaged by getting off the ship one day earlier in Victoria and making their own way to Vancouver.  This, at least was the reaction of the Solstice passengers. 

The final sailings of Royal's Ovation and Quantum (9/23 & 9/26)  will have a similar situation: Seattle to Vancouver, the off to Hawaii.  I imagine there will be passengers on those sailings also expecting a seamless B2B with Seattle/Vancouver/Hawaii.