Cutbacks

[thunderingherd11]

I have been cruising since 2015.  I love carnival and I have noticed a difference this year (I have done three cruises).  I despise the complaints about cutbacks.  I help run a college.  Even as a nonprofit you have to always change, and many times that includes removing things that aren't giving you the return on investment.  Cruising is a ROI business.  I am disappointed about the food quality this year.  That is about the only change that effects me.  The fact that I can buy an $87 bottle of Southern Comfort for my own use doesn't bother me.  I will just buy ten drinks.  Pizza hour cuts and sea day brunch cut is smart business decisions that really does not impact that many people.  Certainly didn't effect me on my last cruise.  I get it we all cruise for different reasons and have our own preferences.

 

But here is what Carnival should do.  They should not adjust what they are doing.  Keep it the same.  Keep accruing debt to the point that they have no choice but to go under.  Now that is a cutback that would suck.  I have read recently that there is over a 50% chance that Norwegian is going to have to eventually file for bankruptcy.  This could happen to more than just them.

 

My biggest concern is comments made from one of the higher ups that they are bothered that their vacations are less than land vacations and they need to fix that.  Well, that will make a difference for me.  I am cruising because the price for most land vacations aren't worth it to me.  I don't cruise Disney and other expensive cruise lines for this reason.  Yes, I can afford it.  But I don't want to spend more that what I think the value is.  So when this occurs, we will go from three cruises a year to one every few.

 

Just my opinion.  I hope this creates dialogue.  Not here to argue, but I will.  lol

[Island Dog]

I view things differently. I would be willing to pay more to keep the experience the same as it was. The pizza hours seem trivial, I agree. But then again, I have a hard time staying awake in the show after dinner. Brunch is a different story as the shortened hours seem to make the MDR a packed zoo. I won't wade into "The Great Strip Steak Controversy". Lol.  

 

To me, cheapening the whole experience has devolved Carnival into the Spirit Airlines of the seas. We are seeing what kind of clientele this is drawing and the negative attention that their unruly behavior is generating.

 

I love Carnival, but wish they would simply just raise their prices to cover inflation, as every other business seems to be doing, and keep the experience I enjoy.

 

Unfortunately, Carnival brass doesn't see it that way. They have the right to run their business as they see fit, just as I have the right to choose the vacation experience that I feel gives me the most pleasure for the price I'm willing to pay. 

 

Thanks for the thread. Hopefully people can keep the discussion civil.

[Island Dog]

I just noticed your handle. Marshall University? 

 

Can you please get Carnival to put a Stewart's onboard? I'll gladly pay an upcharge for that!

 

 

[ColeThornton]

6 minutes ago, Island Dog said:

Thanks for the thread. Hopefully people can keep the discussion civil.

 

 

LOL.....good luck with that.   😉

[Island Dog]

4 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

 

LOL.....good luck with that.   😉

Call me an optimist, I guess. Lol.

[Guest BasicSailor]

30 minutes ago, thunderingherd11 said:

But here is what Carnival should do.

Well at least you're trying to find a solution.🙃

[Earthworm Jim]

17 minutes ago, Island Dog said:

I love Carnival, but wish they would simply just raise their prices to cover inflation, as every other business seems to be doing, and keep the experience I enjoy.

 

That's the crux of the problem and the big question: Would raising prices generate more revenue, or less because fewer people will cruise?

 

And I believe they have to do more than cover the cost of inflation. They need to become more profitable to pay off their debt, not just keep up with inflation. Put another way, the status quo isn't working for them financially, so they have to do something different.

[Earthworm Jim]

44 minutes ago, thunderingherd11 said:

I have read recently that there is over a 50% chance that Norwegian is going to have to eventually file for bankruptcy.  This could happen to more than just them.

 

This link posted in another thread says Carnival has a 53% risk of bankruptcy:

 

https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/CCL/Probability-Of-Bankruptcy

[Island Dog]

15 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

That's the crux of the problem and the big question: Would raising prices generate more revenue, or less because fewer people will cruise?

 

And I believe they have to do more than cover the cost of inflation. They need to become more profitable to pay off their debt, not just keep up with inflation. Put another way, the status quo isn't working for them financially, so they have to do something different.

Very true. But Carnival is swimming in the opposite direction of what other lines are doing (even some of their own brands). Maybe it is an experiment to see what is more cost effective. Cutting expenses or raising prices. Who knows? I just don't feel it is a smart move alienating your loyal base to appeal to a new lower income clientele. But hey, their pig, their farm.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Island Dog

[Badfinger]

1 hour ago, thunderingherd11 said:

I have been cruising since 2015.  I love carnival and I have noticed a difference this year (I have done three cruises).  I despise the complaints about cutbacks.  I help run a college.  Even as a nonprofit you have to always change, and many times that includes removing things that aren't giving you the return on investment.  Cruising is a ROI business.  I am disappointed about the food quality this year.  That is about the only change that effects me.  The fact that I can buy an $87 bottle of Southern Comfort for my own use doesn't bother me.  I will just buy ten drinks.  Pizza hour cuts and sea day brunch cut is smart business decisions that really does not impact that many people.  Certainly didn't effect me on my last cruise.  I get it we all cruise for different reasons and have our own preferences.

 

But here is what Carnival should do.  They should not adjust what they are doing.  Keep it the same.  Keep accruing debt to the point that they have no choice but to go under.  Now that is a cutback that would suck.  I have read recently that there is over a 50% chance that Norwegian is going to have to eventually file for bankruptcy.  This could happen to more than just them.

 

My biggest concern is comments made from one of the higher ups that they are bothered that their vacations are less than land vacations and they need to fix that.  Well, that will make a difference for me.  I am cruising because the price for most land vacations aren't worth it to me.  I don't cruise Disney and other expensive cruise lines for this reason.  Yes, I can afford it.  But I don't want to spend more that what I think the value is.  So when this occurs, we will go from three cruises a year to one every few.

 

Just my opinion.  I hope this creates dialogue.  Not here to argue, but I will.  lol

Based upon our cruise this past January, any future cruise would have to almost be free to be of good value to us.  Long waits in the MDR, long lines at the food places (pizza, burgers), horrible comedians and recycled theatre shows., and an increase in "self entertainment" like Karaoke, Trivia, etc.  Yeah $10 per person sounds about right.   My two "land vacations" last summer were fantastic.  Guided fishing trips.  Just me, the captain and his boat. Everything provided.  Met him at the dock and within 12 minutes had "fish on".  5 hours later watched a beautiful sunset over a WI lake.  Tremendous!  $275 well spent.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Badfinger

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

I guess that's fair. Carnival always has been toward the lower end of the cruise market. But I'd argue it's not the passengers level of maturity that has changed. It's more the level of experience which the low end of the market provides which is changing.

I'd argue is Carnival is mass market geared toward novice cruisers. Change doesn't just happen to cruise lines, but to society as well. Carnival has to adjust for that.

 

2 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

But let's be honest: If you go back and read Cruise Critic posts from 5 years ago, 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, we were all complaining about cutbacks and things not being as good as they used to be then too. It's nothing new. And some things are better than the old days. For example, we didn't have Guy's Burgers and such in the old days.

To be honest there have always been whiners and complainers and they are more vocal than satisfied customers in any industry. The good old days were never as good as some remember. But you are correct - improvements are never given as much corresponding praise as changes some perceive negatively.

[Theicom1]

51 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

For example, we didn't have Guy's Burgers and such in the old days.

That's true. But we did have burgers, whole steak sandwiches (not chopped), 100% juice, President butter, and no bacongate to mention a few.

 

The cuts do seem to be getting a bit excessive.

However, the price does seem to be about the same as it was "back then".

 

As a multi thousand shareholder, I'm of course rooting for Carnival (and maybe one day the return of those good dividends), but really think they have to start researching and implementing higher fares.

 

I'm on board as a customer until the butter turns into margarine, then I'll bail LOL. 

[Island Dog]

Not all novice cruisers start with Carnival. We sailed on Princess our first few cruises and even a few Holland America before taking our first Carnival cruise. But we were enamored instantly. Although we found the MDR food quality to be slightly inferior to the "mature" lines,  the "fun" options more than made up for that. We found the entertainment rather boring on PCL and HAL and only enjoyed the comedy shows. On Carnival there was live comedy every or near every night as well as later additions such as Guy's and Blue Iguana that we love. We would occasionally sail on PCL and HAL alone but Carnival was our go to line. Especially with friends and family. Then we sailed on NCL and found that to be similar to Carnival and maybe a little better. To me, they have the only production shows that I would classify as good and not cheesy.

 

What's my long-winded point? The notion that Carnival feels (which I highly doubt) that I should "graduate" to a more "mature" Carnival-owned brand just ain't gonna happen. I'll just sail more with NCL and to some degree, RCCL. And THAT will not help Carnival Corporation's solvency. I hardly think I am the only one with this line of thinking.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Island Dog

[kdr69]

50 minutes ago, Theicom1 said:

That's true. But we did have burgers, whole steak sandwiches (not chopped), 100% juice, President butter, and no bacongate to mention a few

Sure and you could also get a 20 oz steak once upon a time for a nickel now if you get a 7 oz steak for under 20 bucks your lucky.

[kdr69]

27 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I'll just sail more with NCL and to some degree, RCCL.

NCL and RCCL have cutbacks as well.  NCL most recently with its drink package pricing increase

[kdr69]

Just now, kdr69 said:

NCL and RCCL have cutbacks as well.  NCL most recently with its drink package pricing increase

oops not @BlerkOne damn quoting thingy.

[Island Dog]

It's all good. Lol. My failing eyesight along with my cellphone keyboard have me editing just about every post I make. 

 

I got a screaming deal on my next NCL cruise and I only cruise RCCL when they have an exclusive itinerary (i.e. Bermuda from Florida) as I feel they nickel and dime a bit too much.

 

However, I am a-ok with paying a little more to get the vacation experience I expect. I am fine with being frugal, but life is getting too short to be just plain cheap. (Not directed toward anyone, just my philosophy).

[Colorado Beach Bum]

They are business decisions that the company feels will drive the most profit (or lowest loss).  They may seem like knee jerk cutbacks/changes but I’m sure a lot of thought goes into the decisions.  It’s happening in board rooms rooms all across the world right now.  Doesn’t mean we have to like them but at least for now, there are other places to spend our money if we don’t like them.  There’s a line in the sand that will make each of us switch products.  It’s up to the companies to make the difficult decisions.  

[BTromboneFrack]

3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

"The good old days were never as good as some remember. But you are correct - improvements are never given as much corresponding praise as changes some perceive negatively."

Yes, there have been some cutbacks.  However, I remember cruising when there weren't as many and as varied ports.  I remember when there was no Guy's Burgers, Big Chicken, and multiple restaurant venues.  I remember when our room was so small, the shower and the toilet were in a cubicle, and the toilet got soaked every time you took a shower.  I remember when the room had no TV or internet and there were hardly any balconies --- AND I also remember, that back in 1988, this room cost as much or MORE than today's balcony rooms.  I remember when the ships didn't have stabilizers, outdoor movies, IMAX, or basketball courts.   

And yes, I also remember at that time we had midnight buffets, welcome champagne, full live jazz bands, and a more formal and upgraded MDR.   But it is not all downhill in the cruise industry.  Competition is keeping prices down, and competition will keep the quality from tanking.   RCL's new ships are putting the heat on Carnival, and Carnival will have to keep up.   There will be changes as the industry and the economy evolve.    I say just get me a good drink and keep your eye on the horizon.  We'll be on a boat and the ocean doesn't have cutbacks.

 

 

[Theicom1]

8 hours ago, kdr69 said:

Sure and you could also get a 20 oz steak once upon a time for a nickel now if you get a 7 oz steak for under 20 bucks your lucky.

Yes, that is my point. Cruising Carnival today costs about the same though.

Fares need to increase.

[BoozinCroozin]

People fail to understand that Carnival is a business who report to shareholders. Shareholders are looking at their $8.50/share stock, $30B in debt, releasing more shares at $8 (a few months ago), and now $1.25B in notes. Macroeconomics are taking hold for higher wages, higher cost of goods, higher fuel prices, etc. The Exec and Board only answer to shareholders and a very few number at that. Other than that, the remaining 99.5% are pretty meaningless to them. They will put lipstick on a pig, make you feel happy, and spin things off to make you smile. But in the end, they are cutting costs at every corner, charging for everything they can, cramming more people in, and offering as little as possible.

 

Here are some of the things and you can take it for what you want:

1. Charging for popcorn that use to be free. Yes it is small, but it is additional from what you were getting
2. Increasing daily service fees. This clearly means: we are paying less of your cruise fare to wages and having you cover that difference with daily fees. 
3. Increasing price of Cheers and eliminating bottles of liquor. We save on drink cost, charge more for it, forcing the increase in drink tips, and can change the prices of drinks at will.
4. Eliminating staples at breakfast, cutting back hours of dining options, eliminating dining options after say 9PM forcing you to For Fee room service. 

 

This list can go on and on, but it is a telling picture of what is to come until that $30B gets below $10B, stock price is around $30 instead of $8. Believe me, once something is taken away, it NEVER comes back. The reason is customers have accepted it and will still take a bite out of the same sandwich. If you don't think so, watch how many people go to McDonald's drive thru still instead of ordering on the app. Ordering on the app, you save $4 of a single order of french fries, but people still go through paying full price. 

[mom2tcdx2]

I still have yet to find a land vacation that isn't more expensive than any cruise vacation I have taken.  Personally cutbacks are everywhere and on every cruise line.  Recently my parents went on the Oasis and they didn't serve fried eggs or omelets in the buffet, said only available in the main dining room.  So while still available, the main dining room wasn't quite the option they wanted. 

 

I never bought the bottle of alcohol, honestly didn't see the need for it.  The pizza closing for a few hours seems fine to me, as I never really went beyond about 1 am.  Lines are all charging for room service (except I think Disney).  I think the only thing I miss is the bacon as I do prefer bacon with my breakfast (I prefer sausage in patty form, which no cruise line seems to offer) so then I go to bacon, and I miss the bacon you could add from the toppings bar at Guy's.  I would prefer menu's I can hold, as opposed to always pulling out my phone and I don't miss the little chocolates on the pillows.  

 

One would assume hopefully that someone was really looking at the numbers of people using said services and opted for those that were making the line the least money, or what was costing them more money.  

[Eli_6]

21 hours ago, Badfinger said:

Based upon our cruise this past January, any future cruise would have to almost be free to be of good value to us.  Long waits in the MDR, long lines at the food places (pizza, burgers), horrible comedians and recycled theatre shows., and an increase in "self entertainment" like Karaoke, Trivia, etc.  Yeah $10 per person sounds about right.   My two "land vacations" last summer were fantastic.  Guided fishing trips.  Just me, the captain and his boat. Everything provided.  Met him at the dock and within 12 minutes had "fish on".  5 hours later watched a beautiful sunset over a WI lake.  Tremendous!  $275 well spent.

Have you flown recently?  If not, you might feel differently if any of your vacations had involved air travel. We have not had any major problems with plane travel, but we know plenty of other people who have had flights delayed for days, luggage lost, etc.  One of our friends is a professional golfer and the airlines lost his clubs TWICE in a week--going both to and from The Open.  My SIL (with her three kids under 8 in tow) had a flight canceled once she was already in a "connecting" city this past summer and didn't get on another one for 3 days.  

 

And then there is the fact that many hotels have cut room cleaning altogether except at check in/check out.  Or they only clean it once every 4 or 5 days.  One time we stayed in a Hilton for a week and they never cleaned our room. When I called, they said their policy is now once a week.

[Drew B 58]

21 hours ago, Island Dog said:

Very true. But Carnival is swimming in the opposite direction of what other lines are doing (even some of their own brands). Maybe it is an experiment to see what is more cost effective. Cutting expenses or raising prices. Who knows? I just don't feel it is a smart move alienating your loyal base to appeal to a new lower income clientele. But hey, their pig, their farm.

To a large degree (although not exclusively), Carnival’s “loyal base” IS a lower income clientele!  And the most likely way to “alienate” them would be to raise cruise fares and price those customers out of cruising (entirely or at the rate they currently do).

 

So far, at least, there has been nothing cut back that matters to me nearly as much as a low base fare.  And I also recognize all of the things that have been added over the years.

 

Let’s put it this way.  On my last cruise last month, I was very disappointed in the “cut backs” on the Sea Day Brunch menu.  I had been looking forward to trying the “signature tower” more than anything else on the trip and it wasn’t there.  I considered that a meaningful loss.  I made the best of it and enjoyed my cruise.  If, however, I had been asked to pay a (significantly) higher cruise fare that included the tower, I still wouldn’t have been able to enjoy it BECAUSE I WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN THE TRIP AT ALL!

[Colorado Cruzer]

The food quality was pretty bad back in March on Panorama and the poor service and lines for everything were a real bummer for us.  We have one more cruise in DEC and nothing booked after that.  I think if I want to cruise again, I'll try Celebrity or one of the nicer quailty lines. We usually book a suite so the cruise fare isn't a deal breaker for us, it's the experience once on board that matters to us and Carnival just hasn't been delivering like they did just 5 years ago even. Oh well, plenty of people will stil cruise Carnival and maybe someday the food in the MDR will be edible again and not take 2 hours...lol