Is high tech making a new class system ,I think so .

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

But, in spite of the decrease in infant and childhood mortality, overall life expectancy is now declining—- which seems to indicate that, once we are old enough to be responsible for our own health, we are not doing as well as put predecessors.

Interesting if one looks at the facts behind the numbers.  COVID, drug overdoses, and gang violence are behind the increase.  We seniors are doing better than ever once you take 2 years of COVID mortality out of the mix.  Another interesting tidbit is that there are far more children hospitalized with RSV than we have ever seen with COVID.  And yet, most parents are mostly stressed about COVID.  Go figure.

 

How does this tie in to cruising?  Folks are still concerned about being quarantined for quarantined for COVID but one could also be quarantined for flu, RSV (actually a serious problem for seniors as well as kids), etc.  In fact, these days many COVID cases are a lot more mild than other bugs.

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

54 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Interesting if one looks at the facts behind the numbers.  COVID, drug overdoses, and gang violence are behind the increase.  We seniors are doing better than ever once you take 2 years of COVID mortality out of the mix.  …

Covid didn’t kick in until 2020, but decline in life expectancy started in 2018 - so it’s drugs and violence (self- inflicted societal problems) as much as anything.

[cruisemom42]

16 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course life expectancy in the US peaked in 2017 and has been declining slightly each year since then.

 

Do you suppose it might be too much of a good thing?

 

Life expectancy in and of itself isn't everything. Quality of life is equally important. I have seen some on the fringes of extreme old age (even in my own family) who, were I to ask them, might say they feel they've lived too long.

 

[Joebucks]

Life expectancy is taken too much as gospel. It's an indicator of things, but not a reinforcement of some views you may or may not hold. 

[Mum2Mercury]

On 10/27/2022 at 5:01 PM, dolittle said:

I do think it is making a tech class system and those who do not partake in these apps will lose out on many things . What do you think and what class are you in.

I love that I can see ship's plans /make reservations -- for example, menus, show times, etc. -- ahead of time. 

Once we're on board, I care about it less.  I much prefer having a paper Compass.  For the record, I'm mid-50s and am plenty tech-savvy.  

On 10/27/2022 at 5:16 PM, klfrodo said:

I know many people don't believe in giving their kids phones or tablets, or laptops. That's okay, if that's how they feel. However, you're just hurting the kid. By the time you do decide it's time to give them one, they are so far technologically behind, they'll never catch up.

As a teacher, I agree with postponing screen time until kids are 4-5 years old, then limiting and supervising it.  The internet allows so much that kids have no business seeing, and once innocence is gone, it can't be regained.  

With kids -- and some adults -- the problem is that screen use overwhelms /keeps kids from outdoor play and real-life friends.  Screen time can so easily become a substitute for life.  I just retired from teaching high school, and I saw smart phones affect kids negatively over the years:  fewer and fewer kids had real friends, fewer kids go out for sports teams and participate in clubs.  

Kids catching up on technology?  Seriously, not a problem.  Tech is easy to learn; much easier than critical thinking skills.   

On 10/27/2022 at 5:20 PM, SeaSickCecil said:

Paper tickets and where/when’s mean I can keep track and take pix for my travel diary.  

Yes, when it comes to cruising, I'll have my Set Sail Pass on my phone, but I'll also have it printed ... and the printed version is quicker to show to the terminal staff.  The printed version isn't affected by a dead battery or similar problems.   

On 10/27/2022 at 10:49 PM, Elaine5715 said:

Phones are a good "protection" from interacting with people. 

Going back to my students, over the years I've seen more and more kids "hiding" behind phones.  It's an excuse not to talk to other people ... I've seen whole tables of kids sitting next to one another at lunch, not interacting with others at all.  Just noses in phones.  While chaperoning the prom, I've seen 1/3 of the kids sitting at tables playing on their phones ... to whom are they talking?  Everyone's at the prom!  And more and more kids who claim they have anxiety.  

On 10/27/2022 at 10:54 PM, Elaine5715 said:

I disagree that phone boarding passes are faster.  Nothing worse than when one parent has everyone's boarding pass on one phone, displays times out or set too low.  One second to scan my paper pass

Okay, admittedly, when you're behind a family of six, they're going to take a while to get checked in.  

On 10/27/2022 at 10:57 PM, Elaine5715 said:

Except my checkbook has never been hacked, cloned, or held hostage by ransomware.  

False.  Back when checks were "the thing", they could be stolen from your mailbox or lost in the mail.  Criminals could alter the checks.  And, of course, we've all lost a check and/or found a check that we should've cashed two years ago. 

Those were the checkbook-equivalent of technology's hacking.  

On 10/28/2022 at 2:51 AM, davecttr said:

edit - press reports indicate that dumb phones are becoming more popular, even among the young.

Before my husband retired, he frequently visited nuclear power plants.  He kept a "dumb phone" because he wasn't allowed to take any phone with a camera into those plants, and he didn't want to be cut off from communication with me, the kids and his co-workers.  

On 10/28/2022 at 10:39 AM, ontheweb said:

Has anyone ever had their order lost when the server wrote in down on PAPER? 

Honestly, yes -- not frequently, but I haven't had tech-y problems with food ordering frequently either. 

But, for the record, about six months ago my whole family went out to a very casual brewery, and each small group placed food orders.  My brother's family's food didn't come -- and when he got up to check on it, he found that the waitress had failed to turn in their order.  So, yeah, it happens.  

On 10/28/2022 at 6:57 PM, Hlitner said:

I am often amazed at folks that push higher minimum wage/benefits without their acknowledgment that business will react to such changes ... For every change there will be a reaction and counter-change.  

Agree.  Nothing changes in a vacuum.  

On 10/30/2022 at 11:57 AM, ontheweb said:

And as one former school board member to another---I wonder if we are now educating a generation that does not have critical thinking skills.

 

And is the latest generation able to communate face to face without a phone or a social media site between them?

As a teacher, I agree.  I taught high school seniors, and -- in general -- they were quick with technology when it worked.  But when something went wrong, they became frustrated quickly and threw their hands up, saying, "Impossible!"  

 

I'd argue that communication of all types is going downhill.  Just look at the grammar on this thread, and -- yes -- my high school seniors weren't as skilled /comfortable at in-person communication as my 30-years ago students.  

On 10/30/2022 at 12:13 PM, DirtyDawg said:

Every generation thinks that they are the ultimate generation. Generations before them were all luddites and the generations which follows them are all just idiots. 😁

I don't think that. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Mum2Mercury

[pris993]

If you think cruise lines are tough, how about airlines.  I finally got an iPhone because I need to check in for international travel, airlines I travel on require that or you might lose your seats.  

 

I pick and choose what I do.  Just got an iPhone attachment I can hang around my neck, like I do the room key.  Less risk of losing the phone on board.    

[klfrodo]

10 minutes ago, pris993 said:

If you think cruise lines are tough, how about airlines.  I finally got an iPhone because I need to check in for international travel,

Well, you're probably going to be very surprised when you can't use mobile check-in. The ticket needed to get thru TSA won't be issued until you show a physical valid passport at the ticket counter.

[pris993]

3 hours ago, klfrodo said:

Well, you're probably going to be very surprised when you can't use mobile check-in. The ticket needed to get thru TSA won't be issued until you show a physical valid passport at the ticket counter.

What I am talking about, is confirming I will be doing the flight within 24 hours of the flight.  Some international carriers I have flown request travelers do so, or risk losing seat assignments, on return flight to USA.  Last time I flew international was 2018, so may have changed.  

[topnole]

On 10/27/2022 at 5:18 PM, capriccio said:

Progress is never universally accepted.  Some people embrace it wholeheartedly, some not at all, and some pick and chose.  I (late sixties, retired over 10 years ago from an IT project management job, never on social media unless cruise critic counts) fall into the pick and chose category but I can definitely understand others who don't want to be bothered especially with something as quirky (my polite way of saying, totally untested before implementation) Princess Medallion App.  Believe it or not, it is actually much improved in the past 12 months!

 

The truth is that the number of passengers embracing progress wholeheartedly is increasing as their numbers replace the rest of us.

Kids never embraced it.  It was forced on them so they had no choice.  Schools force kids to use learning apps and the addition begins.  It’s truly reprehensible what adults allow schools and tech companies, who profit off their information, to do.    Now the kids are helplessly addicted as young adults.  It’s a very sad state.   9/10 of adults don’t even think of the significant negative consequences.   It’s very sad.   

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, topnole said:

rogress wholeheartedly is increasing as their numbers replace the rest of us.

Because of my original career I was an early adopter of technology.  It has improved so many aspects of life for us I embrace it wherever reasonable. Being married to a dinosaur though I understand both views.  I think the underlying angst is how it has changed social interaction and it has and no I am not blaming the internet for crazy. Day to day interactions have changed, we don’t we don’t shop the same, we don’t go to the doctor the same etc…. These changes perhaps isolate us from our community but of course they also allow us to interact with communities far, far away.  
 

So you get bad technology as the people executing the design have never experienced the interactions (or similar) the technology is tasked to solve 

[ilikeanswers]

I don't know if I would describe it as a class system but I do agree there is a gap between the tech literate and illiterate. I heard someone once describe the gap as equivalent to reading writing literacy at the turn of last century. I see it personally with my own parents, the things they miss out on because they cannot understand modern tech on top of which their disabilities make some technologies really difficult to use. In Uruguay they are trying to close the gap with a government funded program to teach seniors how to use tablets. Apparently results have been good with participants able to use many apps they couldn't before. 

[cruisemom42]

On 11/3/2022 at 1:03 PM, Mum2Mercury said:

With kids -- and some adults -- the problem is that screen use overwhelms /keeps kids from outdoor play and real-life friends.  Screen time can so easily become a substitute for life.  I just retired from teaching high school, and I saw smart phones affect kids negatively over the years:  fewer and fewer kids had real friends, fewer kids go out for sports teams and participate in clubs.  

 

This view strikes me as much too simplistic.

 

First of all, it is the schools themselves that keep eliminating recess and physical education periods during the school day, which cuts down on potential time for socialization in addition to physical fitness.

 

Second, you are focusing on the kids who are outgoing, popular and social. My DS, bless his heart, is very smart, kind, mature and funny...but also introverted. In school he was also no good at organized sports (we tried) and extremely shy and self-conscious. If it wasn't for some of the online communities he participated in, he would've had far less social contact. (And BTW those online communities led to actual friendships among fellow HS students that he may not otherwise have met; also allowed him to practice his conversational skills at one remove until he felt more confident doing it in real life....)

 

 

On 11/3/2022 at 1:03 PM, Mum2Mercury said:

Kids catching up on technology?  Seriously, not a problem.  Tech is easy to learn; much easier than critical thinking skills.   

 

That depends. If you leave it too long, they never achieve that level of fluency and comfort with technology that many (most?) of the younger generations have.  

 

On 11/3/2022 at 1:03 PM, Mum2Mercury said:

 

Going back to my students, over the years I've seen more and more kids "hiding" behind phones.  It's an excuse not to talk to other people ... I've seen whole tables of kids sitting next to one another at lunch, not interacting with others at all.  Just noses in phones.  While chaperoning the prom, I've seen 1/3 of the kids sitting at tables playing on their phones ... to whom are they talking?  Everyone's at the prom!  And more and more kids who claim they have anxiety.  

 

See my post #1. Not "everyone" is at the prom!  You're neglecting to mention the kids that don't go to prom. Maybe they need to feel they also have a community... I'm a little surprised to hear this from a teacher.   (Also those at the prom who are on their phones may well be posting photos that parents, grandparents and others are eagerly waiting to see.)

 

 

On 11/3/2022 at 1:03 PM, Mum2Mercury said:

 

As a teacher, I agree.  I taught high school seniors, and -- in general -- they were quick with technology when it worked.  But when something went wrong, they became frustrated quickly and threw their hands up, saying, "Impossible!"  

 

Again, not so simplistic. I would actually argue the opposite. Those unfamiliar with technology (including myself who I'd classify as about "middling") tend to give up easily when they encounter a problem with technology. If I have a computer issue, I'll give it a try or two to resolve, then immediately call DS who will think nothing of working on such problems for an hour or more, patiently trying different solutions....

 

On 11/3/2022 at 1:03 PM, Mum2Mercury said:

 

I'd argue that communication of all types is going downhill.  Just look at the grammar on this thread, and -- yes -- my high school seniors weren't as skilled /comfortable at in-person communication as my 30-years ago students.  

 

Well let's be honest, shall we?  As a parent I found it shocking what teachers let students "slide by" with. Starting from the early grades where students are encouraged to write things down and are told "Just write something -- spelling doesn't matter; grammar doesn't matter."  Trust me, that first introduction to writing stays with them. Forever afterwards they are convinced that spelling and grammar aren't that important.

 

I remember in middle school when DS was being taught to write the basic essay (intro, several paragraphs of support, conclusion). He'd write something then ask me -- as a professional in communications -- to read it and give him feedback. You would not believe how many times I pointed out incorrect grammar and punctuation, only to be told, "Oh that doesn't matter to Mrs. X; she doesn't mark off for that."  WHAT???  (And it wasn't just a single teacher that had this strange philosophy.)  

 

He was naturally strong in maths and science but honestly if I hadn't worked hard with him, his communications skills would be subpar. Not due to technology. He was convinced that it wasn't that important to communicate well. I convinced him that even those going into tech careers needed good communications skills. Now he is an engineer/consultant at one of the top 5 tech companies in the US and everyone on his project teams asks him to write up reports and draft important client emails, lol.

 

In short, I don't think blaming the technology is fair -- more likely to be related to bad or inattentive parenting or teaching. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by cruisemom42

[topnole]

6 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Because of my original career I was an early adopter of technology.  It has improved so many aspects of life for us I embrace it wherever reasonable. Being married to a dinosaur though I understand both views.  I think the underlying angst is how it has changed social interaction and it has and no I am not blaming the internet for crazy. Day to day interactions have changed, we don’t we don’t shop the same, we don’t go to the doctor the same etc…. These changes perhaps isolate us from our community but of course they also allow us to interact with communities far, far away.  
 

So you get bad technology as the people executing the design have never experienced the interactions (or similar) the technology is tasked to solve 

I have no problems with technology.  I’ve been using it for decades.  I have a problem with the ignorance and/or lack of concern for how it is hurting kids.   The mental health of children is negatively (and significantly) impacted by over reliance on technology.  The number of parents who throw their phone to their kids to shut them up is frightening.  Too much time is a very serious health issue for kids (mentally and physically).  Just look at the childhood obesity rates among kids.  It is obscene.  Add to that the mental health issues.  It is outright horrible for kids.  The tech companies know this, but they don’t care as they are happy to design products to exploit children.  It is truly despicable.  Reminds me of camel cigarettes using Joe the camel to attract kids to smoking.  

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, topnole said:

I have no problems with technology.  I’ve been using it for decades.  I have a problem with the ignorance and/or lack of concern for how it is hurting kids.   The mental health of children is negatively (and significantly) impacted by over reliance on technology.  The number of parents who throw their phone to their kids to shut them up is frightening.  Too much time is a very serious health issue for kids (mentally and physically).  Just look at the childhood obesity rates among kids.  It is obscene.  Add to that the mental health issues.  It is outright horrible for kids.  The tech companies know this, but they don’t care as they are happy to design products to exploit children.  It is truly despicable.  Reminds me of camel cigarettes using Joe the camel to attract kids to smoking.  

All of that is way above my pay grade😁

[topnole]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

This view strikes me as much too simplistic.

 

First of all, it is the schools themselves that keep eliminating recess and physical education periods during the school day, which cuts down on potential time for socialization in addition to physical fitness.

 

Second, you are focusing on the kids who are outgoing, popular and social. My DS, bless his heart, is very smart, kind, mature and funny...but also introverted. In school he was also no good at organized sports (we tried) and extremely shy and self-conscious. If it wasn't for some of the online communities he participated in, he would've had far less social contact. (And BTW those online communities led to actual friendships among fellow HS students that he may not otherwise have met; also allowed him to practice his conversational skills at one remove until he felt more confident doing it in real life....)

 

 

 

That depends. If you leave it too long, they never achieve that level of fluency and comfort with technology that many (most?) of the younger generations have.  

 

 

See my post #1. Not "everyone" is at the prom!  You're neglecting to mention the kids that don't go to prom. Maybe they need to feel they also have a community... I'm a little surprised to hear this from a teacher.   (Also those at the prom who are on their phones may well be posting photos that parents, grandparents and others are eagerly waiting to see.)

 

 

 

Again, not so simplistic. I would actually argue the opposite. Those unfamiliar with technology (including myself who I'd classify as about "middling") tend to give up easily when they encounter a problem with technology. If I have a computer issue, I'll give it a try or two to resolve, then immediately call DS who will think nothing of working on such problems for an hour or more, patiently trying different solutions....

 

 

Well let's be honest, shall we?  As a parent I found it shocking what teachers let students "slide by" with. Starting from the early grades where students are encouraged to write things down and are told "Just write something -- spelling doesn't matter; grammar doesn't matter."  Trust me, that first introduction to writing stays with them. Forever afterwards they are convinced that spelling and grammar aren't that important.

 

I remember in middle school when DS was being taught to write the basic essay (intro, several paragraphs of support, conclusion). He'd write something then ask me -- as a professional in communications -- to read it and give him feedback. You would not believe how many times I pointed out incorrect grammar and punctuation, only to be told, "Oh that doesn't matter to Mrs. X; she doesn't mark off for that."  WHAT???  (And it wasn't just a single teacher that had this strange philosophy.)  

 

He was naturally strong in maths and science but honestly if I hadn't worked hard with him, his communications skills would be subpar. Not due to technology. He was convinced that it wasn't that important to communicate well. I convinced him that even those going into tech careers needed good communications skills. Now he is an engineer/consultant at one of the top 5 tech companies in the US and everyone on his project teams asks him to write up reports and draft important client emails, lol.

 

In short, I don't think blaming the technology is fair -- more likely to be related to bad or inattentive parenting or teaching. 

Kids are forced to use apps in 1st grade now.  Read up on class dojo.  (Google class dojo).  You have to use it to communicate with the teachers.  It is a behavior modification system too.  Where is all that data on the student being sold. No one knows, but tons of schools use it.   It’s so unethical.   And most parents are clueless.  So yes, lack of parenting is a huge problem.  Things have changed a lot since your son started primary education.  
 

Agree.  Zero standards nowadays.  Got to make sure everyone passes.  Everyone should go to college.  Etc etc.   Most college kids can’t even write in complete sentences.  Our education system is completely broken because teachers are lazy and/or go easy on everyone.   Getting an A means nothing anymore.  Even in college.  Trust me on that.  

[topnole]

35 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

All of that is way above my pay grade😁

It shouldn’t be.  It is a huge problem and people need to be aware.  Part of the problem is folks sticking their head in the sand and not realizing what is going on.  There will be many policy decisions on this stuff in the future (as there have in the past).  It is important everyone is aware.  Particularly those who worked in technology in any form or fashion.  
 

Parents and grandparents need to start making themselves aware and putting a stop to society just handing a smart device to a little kid and pretending their aren’t serious risks and dangers that come with that decision.  We all have a vested interest in kids being healthy (emotionally and physically).   

[Mary229]

18 minutes ago, topnole said:

It shouldn’t be.  It is a huge problem and people need to be aware.  Part of the problem is folks sticking their head in the sand and not realizing what is going on.  There will be many policy decisions on this stuff in the future (as there have in the past).  It is important everyone is aware.  Particularly those who worked in technology in any form or fashion.  
 

Parents and grandparents need to start making themselves aware and putting a stop to society just handing a smart device to a little kid and pretending their aren’t serious risks and dangers that come with that decision.  We all have a vested interest in kids being healthy (emotionally and physically).   

This is a cruise board.   I like to discuss topics that are at least have some semblance of impact on cruisers.

[LauraS]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

This is a cruise board.   I like to discuss topics that are at least have some semblance of impact on cruisers.

 

This is an easy swing back to cruising folks.  Thanks!

[Spif Barwunkel]

Fortunately, or unfortunately, the continued evolvement of high tech carries on the pervasive intrusion into our everyday lives.  There is no development of a new “class system”, social, cruising or otherwise. Rather, the widening chasm between the influencers and the influenced will determine when some folks decide to wean themselves from whatever level of dependency they reside. For some, there cannot and will not be a respite.

 

Cruising is just a small subset of high-tech influencers using high tech influences to sway or force cruisers into a more dependent cruising experience. I very much enjoy the paper notices in my cabin and the paper menus at the dining room table. On a recent cruise, it seemed a bother for the wait-staff to provide menus as they fully expected everyone to have the electronic version. Is cruising becoming less personal and more prone to electronic manipulation?

 

High tech is too big to pigeon-hole in to any one social media platform, the crossovers between all platforms, imports and exports influencers from one to another. Thus, life outside cruising does not remove relevance from cruisers inside. This topic is certainly impactful on the cruising community, as are the posts within this thread.  

[CTGirl74]

I've been on only two cruises, both of which were in 2013. I don't remember how much tech was involved; however, I remember having to present paper tickets, getting a paper daily, etc. 

 

I'm in my late 40s, if that matters, and I generally embrace new technology. My next cruise will be 2023 and I'm looking forward to all the new tech...as long as it works. I love being able to do pretty much anything I need to do online via email, chat or apps--I prefer it--and not have to stand in line with 20 people waiting to ask a question or resolve a problem, or sit on the phone on hold for 30+ minutes, just to be transferred to another department. I'm thinking the only thing I'd like to remain "old school" is a paper daily calendar so I can see the events side by side in one place without having to scroll or tap/click around a lot. But anything else? Please point me to the digital option. 🙂

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, CTGirl74 said:

I've been on only two cruises, both of which were in 2013. I don't remember how much tech was involved; however, I remember having to present paper tickets, getting a paper daily, etc. 

things have changed a lot, not enough IMHO, but a lot.  Paper is going away except the ridiculous spa and special advertising 

[Sigyn]

I wouldn't call it a class system, but it is creating a divide between those who are willing to use mobile devices and other technology on board a ship and those who are not. Technology is designed to make things easier for passengers, so it's going to become increasingly more difficult to cruise without using it.

 

Change is difficult for some to accept, and this is one of those times that people will have to make the decision about what they are willing to do. 

[Charles4515]

18 minutes ago, njsmom said:

Change is difficult for some to accept, and this is one of those times that people will have to make the decision about what they are willing to do. 

 

They will decide to change. I know several people who said they would never ever get a smartphone.Neighbors, friends and family members. They had flip phones. By 2018 every single one of them had a smartphone. Most of them have also dropped their landlines 

[Spif Barwunkel]

So, technology in cruising, while not making a new class system, is certainly making every effort to gradually weed out the non-compliant, correct? Whether due to being less tech savvy, indifference, or the desire not to become totally tech dependent, if you can't or won't navigate a tiny keyboard for all your needs, perhaps you should consider other forms of travel, correct? Whether subtly, or not so much, the smarter the phone, less so the user. 

 

High tech in cruising is becoming another bias against certain cruisers. Kind of like seniors and those with mobility issues, correct?  

    

Edited November 11, 2022 by Spif Barwunkel

[cruisemom42]

25 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

High tech in cruising is becoming another bias against certain cruisers. Kind of like seniors and those with mobility issues, correct?  

 

I suppose (?) -- in the same way that those newfangled automobiles represented a bias against horse owners???  

 

😄