Bad Business - Drink To It.

[Robjame]

8 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Huge? As I mentioned, this is about 2-3% of your total cruise cost (depends on your cabin, it could be less). Personally, I'm not sure it's worth all the time and energy wasted here and on Facebook. Better to just enjoy the cruise..

Thank you. You are very generous with my money…..😀

 

Huge? 50% price increase is huge in my books, especially when there is no way out -

 

I think the pay it and grin is known as the bend over philosophy of money management.

 

 

 

For those who have opined without a sound understanding, the House Select package is more than wine and beer at meals, it is the route to the Prestige Package… and the only route. To purchase the Prestige you must have passed through the House Select. This is a major reason some of us take it as our OLife.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, Robjame said:

Thank you. You are very generous with my money…..😀

 

Huge? 50% price increase is huge in my books, especially when there is no way out -

 

I think the pay it and grin is known as the bend over philosophy of money management.

 

 

Matter of perspective I guess.. You can call it 50% but it's still only $10. I agree that it's matter of principle, but it's still a very small increase compared to the total cost of the vacation. This is how I look at it, no matter if it's my money or other people's money. And again, any price increase of items that are not pre paid is not illegal.

[pinotlover]

2 hours ago, PaulMCO said:

 

NEW | Beverage Package Pricing Structure

 

Advance Purchase (Prior to Sailing)

$29.95 per guest, per day – House Select

$59.95 per guest, per day – Prestige Select

Onboard Purchase

$39.95 per guest, per day – House Select

$69.95 per guest, per day – Prestige Select

Paul;

 

Thanks for this. Interesting plan. If you buy the drinks package pre-cruise you get a discounted price. However, by doing so, you must buy it for the entire cruise, or first segment ( perhaps). 
 

If one waits, they pay more, but can delay the start based on situation.

[Guest ldtr]

14 hours ago, eroller said:

If there is a common thread when I peruse the various cruise line boards, it’s pay more and get less.  Increases across the board while services are being cut or trimmed.  Seems to be the cruise industry mantra these days.  I understand most lines are in a precarious financial position these days, but I hope this strategy doesn’t bite them in the rear long term.  
 

I certainly empathize with the OP.  While I don’t agree with cutting any kind of staff gratuity, I’ve often wondered how much of the required gratuity goes into the corporate pocket of the cruise line.  Likewise when they raise the required gratuity amount, does the crew see that raise?  I’ve been told otherwise.  I’ve also been told by various crew members on different lines they receive a guaranteed amount per contract, regardless of the gratuity.  Of course the cruise line wants you to tip the full amount so they don’t have to make up the crew guarantee out of their own pocket.  This is also a problem when the ship isn’t full, so it’s in the cruise lines best interest to fill ships on many fronts.  
 

Anyway I’m sad to see what is happening within the cruise industry right now (in terms of cuts and price increases), but in no way do I want the crew to suffer in any way.  They work so hard (even harder with staffing cuts), and deserve every penny they earn.  
 

 

Pretty clear that all of the cruise lines will put a major push on raising fares and fees in 2023 and 2024.  The CEO's of both CCL and RCL have already made that clear.  See no reason why NCLH will not follow.

 

Cruise line pricing is determined not only by other cruise lines, but also the prices of other travel options.  Anyone that has traveled during the past year has experienced that prices at land based resorts and hotels have gone up significantly compared to 2019.  At the same time the services at many of those venues have also been significantly reduced (room cleaning, dining venues, room service, etc).  The cruise lines have kept their fares pretty much in line with 2019 for the most part while they were working on getting occupancy back up to near 2019 levels.  Now that occupancy is getting back to the 100% levels you can expect cruise lines in general to test how much pricing power that they have.  The first round has been in add-ons such as drink packages, gratuities and other forms of on-board spend.  The next round will include noticeable increases in fares.

[shepherd really]

32 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The next round will include noticeable increases in fares.

Or the next round will include a decrease in bookings after these increases, leading to revenue loses that will make one or more of these entities unable to service their huge debt load and we'll see them go under.

[MEFIowa]

14 minutes ago, shepherd really said:

Or the next round will include a decrease in bookings after these increases, leading to revenue loses that will make one or more of these entities unable to service their huge debt load and we'll see them go under.

With inflation in the USA around 7% and in the UK around 10%, that means an excess of money in the supply and for some time. If O only increased these prices by the rate of inflation, they'd just be breaking even. If they hold the line on pre-inflation prices, they're losing money in real terms. And since the data shows people are willing and able to pay higher prices, which even accord with their own inflationary expectations, passing along cost increases just to maintain current margins should be rather easy.

[shepherd really]

8 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

With inflation in the USA around 7% and in the UK around 10%, that means an excess of money in the supply and for some time. If O only increased these prices by the rate of inflation, they'd just be breaking even. If they hold the line on pre-inflation prices, they're losing money in real terms. And since the data shows people are willing and able to pay higher prices, which even accord with their own inflationary expectations, passing along cost increases just to maintain current margins should be rather easy.

At least at Oceania, we just came off a period of inflated occupancy due to all the expiring future cruise credits.  The last two quarters of '22 are not a good place to extrapolate about future carrying rates on ships.  We'll see in a year what the industry looks like.  Stock prices have tanked at all the major lines over the last 12 months, so the Wall St masters of the universe are not looking bullish on cruising.

 

[ak1004]

Our first cruise with Oceania was in September 2018, 10 nights Rome to Barcelona on the Riviera. We paid $4,399 CAD for the inside cabin. Booked 20 months in advance.

 

Checking prices for similar cruises today, on the same ship, a typical price for the inside cabin is around $3,200-3,500. 

 

We recently booked two cruises for similar price (around $4,400-4,600) in the same region, but OV.

 

So at least with Oceania, based on this (limited) sample, the prices are actually down compared to pre Covid.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, shepherd really said:

Or the next round will include a decrease in bookings after these increases, leading to revenue loses that will make one or more of these entities unable to service their huge debt load and we'll see them go under.

They may.  It certainly did not work that way with hotels.  They ramped up their prices considerably (the higher end the resort, the larger the increase) and no signs of bookings dropping or prices coming back down.

 

So the alternative to paying more for a cruise is to pay much more for a land vacation. That differential between cruising and other vacation options, which is currently wider then it has been historically, we be how they set pricing.

 

They will raise fares and see exactly how much pricing power that they have.  If they have it the prices will stick, if the pricing power is not there it will not.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, shepherd really said:

At least at Oceania, we just came off a period of inflated occupancy due to all the expiring future cruise credits.  The last two quarters of '22 are not a good place to extrapolate about future carrying rates on ships.  We'll see in a year what the industry looks like.  Stock prices have tanked at all the major lines over the last 12 months, so the Wall St masters of the universe are not looking bullish on cruising.

 

More than offset by hesitancy in a large percentage of the cruising public being very nervous and uncertain about cruising with the pandemic.  Now that there is a greater sense of comfort with cruising that hesitancy is dropping and occupancy is increasing.

 

You must not have noticed the increase in Cruise line prices yesterday after the CEO of CCL indicated that they would be raising prices.  The CEO of RCL said the same thing a week or so earlier.  They certainly have far more information on their customer base and spending than any of us here do.

[ORV]

9 hours ago, PaulMCO said:

 

NEW | Beverage Package Pricing Structure

 

Advance Purchase (Prior to Sailing)

$29.95 per guest, per day – House Select

$59.95 per guest, per day – Prestige Select

Onboard Purchase

$39.95 per guest, per day – House Select

$69.95 per guest, per day – Prestige Select

What is the source of this information? I've seen it in a couple of different places like this, but nothing showing it being Advance Pricing vs Onboard pricing. 

[shepherd really]

3 minutes ago, ldtr said:

More than offset by hesitancy in a large percentage of the cruising public being very nervous and uncertain about cruising with the pandemic.  Now that there is a greater sense of comfort with cruising that hesitancy is dropping and occupancy is increasing.

 

You must not have noticed the increase in Cruise line prices yesterday after the CEO of CCL indicated that they would be raising prices.  The CEO of RCL said the same thing a week or so earlier.  They certainly have far more information on their customer base and spending than any of us here do.

If the White Star Line increased fees for deck chairs on the Titanic I wouldn't interpret that as confidence, more like hubris or desperation.  Again, we shall see. 

[PaulMCO]

1 minute ago, ORV said:

What is the source of this information? I've seen it in a couple of different places like this, but nothing showing it being Advance Pricing vs Onboard pricing. 

Travel agent -- effective Jan 1, 2023

[CVA34]

Here's my question........cruise only no additional packages, purchasing beverages at the bar/restaurant, if I prepay gratuities, is there still a 20% gratuity added to the beverage charge?

[LHT28]

Just now, CVA34 said:

Here's my question........cruise only no additional packages, purchasing beverages at the bar/restaurant, if I prepay gratuities, is there still a 20% gratuity added to the beverage charge?

YES

 The daily gratuity  only includes waitstaff in food venues  & Housekeeping dept that is shared

The Butlers have a different gratuity pool that is shared

Spa  has a different gratuity  pool

Bar staff  different shared gratuity pool

[CVA34]

13 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

YES

 The daily gratuity  only includes waitstaff in food venues  & Housekeeping dept that is shared

The Butlers have a different gratuity pool that is shared

Spa  has a different gratuity  pool

Bar staff  different shared gratuity pool

Thank you LHT, greatly appreciated. DB

[Flatbush Flyer]

17 minutes ago, CVA34 said:

Here's my question........cruise only no additional packages, purchasing beverages at the bar/restaurant, if I prepay gratuities, is there still a 20% gratuity added to the beverage charge?

Normally, yes. But, there’s another thread here on the O forum regarding the pre-cruise booze purchase web page - showing the ability to pre-buy just the booze gratuities as a daily set charge. Perhaps someone who saw that can post a link or remind us where on a cruise account it can be found.

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, shepherd really said:

If the White Star Line increased fees for deck chairs on the Titanic I wouldn't interpret that as confidence, more like hubris or desperation.  Again, we shall see. 

Just to put the economic on NCLH into perspective I compared the most recent quarter to the same quarter of 2019 for the financials for all NCLH owned lines.  The last full quarter before Covid hit the scene.

 

I looked at operating expenses per passenger day. 

2019

Fuel $18.36

Food $10.56

Total operating expense  $183.89

 

Most recent 10Q  expense per passenger day

Fuel 46.95

Food  19.28

Total operating expense  $311.08

 

The scope of the cost increases are huge. In interesting things is that they are much larger than doing the same comparison for CCL 10Q's.  For example there food went from 12.48 to 14.63. A much smaller percentage increase.

 

Fuel and some of the other operating expenses will decline per passenger day to some degree with occupancy.  But that by itself will not be enough. They will need to increase fares and fees as well.  If they do not have pricing power to raise fares and fees then things do not look good

 

 

 

[AMHuntFerry]

29 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Normally, yes. But, there’s another thread here on the O forum regarding the pre-cruise booze purchase web page - showing the ability to pre-buy just the booze gratuities as a daily set charge. Perhaps someone who saw that can post a link or remind us where on a cruise account it can be found.

It can be found under the Other Options tab (in same general place as the Shore Excursions)...

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by AMHuntFerry

[LHT28]

How can one pre pay just the booze gratuity  if you have no idea what you will be drinking ?

 

Pax can pre pay their gratuity  based on the daily rate  for the number of days of the cruise

 

 

 

[AMHuntFerry]

5 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

How can one pre pay just the booze gratuity  if you have no idea what you will be drinking ?

 

Pax can pre pay their gratuity  based on the daily rate  for the number of days of the cruise

I think it's a programming error. My guess is they are planning to automate prepaying gratuities (housekeeping/meals, not bevvies) and this one was accidentally included with the drink packages. My crystal ball says that we will see another option in the "Other Options" tab for Gratuities along with Beverage Packages and Culinary Classes.

Edited January 6, 2023 by AMHuntFerry

[1985rz1]

2 minutes ago, AMHuntFerry said:

I think it's a programming error. My guess is they are planning to automate prepaying gratuities and this one was accidentally included with the drink packages. My crystal ball says that we will see another option in the "Other Options" tab for Gratuities along with Beverage Packages and Culinary Classes.

That was what I was just going to post.  You beat me to it.  $18 pp pd is the standard stateroom  gratuity without a butler.

Edited January 6, 2023 by 1985rz1

[sunlover12]

21 minutes ago, AMHuntFerry said:

It can be found under the Other Options tab (in same general place as the Shore Excursions)...

 

My booking shows $23/person/day which is what the gratuities are for a PH.  It's definitely a programming error or a poorly designed web page.  I'd have to drink $110 worth of alcohol per day if this is PPG for booze.  I'd be passed out on the floor before that could happen!

[ORV]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Normally, yes. But, there’s another thread here on the O forum regarding the pre-cruise booze purchase web page - showing the ability to pre-buy just the booze gratuities as a daily set charge. Perhaps someone who saw that can post a link or remind us where on a cruise account it can be found.

As others have pointed out here, that hasn't been affirmed by Oceania. Only what you think it is, unless you've heard something from someone at Oceania stating that is what it's for. 

[mauibabes]

My guess is that you are in a PH or higher Suite and the $23 per day per person is the value of the Gratuities assigned to your booking. It is not effectively stated but it is NOT the value of gratuities for a Beverage Package, House or Prestige Select. 🤪 IMHO, no need to drink $110 a day to cover your costs. 
Enjoy,

Mauibabes