Seeking clarification on passport requirements with a sort of specific question!

[gigem_aggies]

11 day sailing on the Joy that is listed as a CARIBBEAN sailing.  It makes a stop in Panama, but does NOT go through the canal.  It is a US closed loop sailing.  

NCL's travel documentation page says a birth certificate and government ID is acceptable for US closed loop Caribbean cruises, which is what this is listed as.  However, for Panama CANAL cruises, a passport is required.

Of course, we always travel with a passport, but part of our party booked this cruise and specifically looked to see if a passport was required because they do not have them.

So, seeking clarification here--is a passport required? You can see below how the cruise we booked is listed as a Caribbean cruise while the Panama Canal cruises are listed as that.  And, then the passport requirements page from NCL.

*Also, I KNOW the importance of traveling with a passport and have expressed that to the rest of our party.*  That's not my question though.  🙂  

[graphicguy]

Yeah…looks like it’s clearly stated, passports are needed to go through the canal.  I forget the exact regulations, but IIRC, if a cruise ship enters territorial waters, they are considered being the same as if you set foot on that territory’s land.

 

Caribbean covers a lot of ground.  Haiti is considered Caribbean.  Part of the Virgin Islands in the Caribbean are Dutch.  Point being, it’s not really a closed loop sailing.

 

If your friends can get to a Passport agency, and make an appointment to get in, they MIGHT be able to secure one in time. 

 

I wouldn’t wait to debate if they needed the passport, though.  They don’t have time.  They need to get one now.

Edited March 28, 2023 by graphicguy

[UKstages]

the current wait time for an expedited US passport is 7 to 9 weeks.

 

yes, if you have a passport office in a city nearby (not a post office) and have travel within the next 7 to 14 days, you can get an in-agency passport more quickly, but you must make an appointment. those are the two requirements... you have to have an appointment and travel must be within the 7 to 14 day window (from the day of your appointment).

[njhorseman]

5 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Yeah…looks like it’s clearly stated, passports are needed to go through the canal.

But this cruise doesn't go through the canal.  It makes a port call at Colon, without actually going through the canal. That's the reason for the OP's question. NCL's statement of  documentation requirements isn't clear for this particular itinerary.

 

7 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

 

Caribbean covers a lot of ground.  Haiti is considered Caribbean.  Part of the Virgin Islands in the Caribbean are Dutch.  Point being, it’s not really a closed loop sailing.

Yes, it's a closed loop sailing. "Closed loop" just means that it starts and ends in the same port. Whether a particular country requires a passport is an entirely separate question. Your examples aren't  accurate. St. Maarten, which is Dutch, allows cruise passengers on a closed loop US cruise to enter without a passport. Thousands do so every year.

[gigem_aggies]

10 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Yeah…looks like it’s clearly stated, passports are needed to go through the canal.  I forget the exact regulations, but IIRC, if a cruise ship enters territorial waters, they are considered being the same as if you set foot on that territory’s land.

 

Caribbean covers a lot of ground.  Haiti is considered Caribbean, as is part of Mexico.  Part of the Virgin Islands in the Caribbean are Dutch.  Point being, it’s not really a closed loop sailing.

 

If your friends can get to a Passport agency, and make an appointment to get in, they MIGHT be able to secure one in time. 

 

I wouldn’t wait to debate if they needed the passport, though.  They don’t have time.  They need to get one now.

I guess I don't read it that way--this does not go THROUGH the canal, so it's not really clearly stated.  It specifically says "for all Panama Canal sailings", yet this is not listed as a Panama Canal sailing and even in the decription for the cruise, nowhere is Panama Canal mentioned (see below)

And, when I called NCL they were not helpful.  They directed me to the required documents page that I posted originally.

[Charles4515]

2 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

But this cruise doesn't go through the canal.  It makes a port call at Colon, without actually going through the canal. That's the reason for the OP's question. NCL's statement of  documentation requirements isn't clear for this particular itinerary.

 

Yes, it's a closed loop sailing. "Closed loop" just means that it starts and ends in the same port. Whether a particular country requires a passport is an entirely separate question. Your examples aren't  accurate. St. Maarten, which is Dutch, allows cruise passengers on a closed loop US cruise to enter without a passport. Thousands do so every year.

The specific country that might require a passport is Columbia. Columbia may also require 6 months left. Also vaccination and covid test. 

[graphicguy]

2 minutes ago, gigem_aggies said:

I guess I don't read it that way--this does not go THROUGH the canal, so it's not really clearly stated.  It specifically says "for all Panama Canal sailings", yet this is not listed as a Panama Canal sailing and even in the decription for the cruise, nowhere is Panama Canal mentioned (see below)

And, when I called NCL they were not helpful.  They directed me to the required documents page that I posted originally.

Yeah…but your ports of call are Columbia, Belize, Costa Rica and Panamanian waters.

 

Up to your friends on what they do.  But me?  No way in the world I’m not having a Passport with me on this cruise….if they’ll even let you check in without one.

[debenson0723]

This cruise just makes a port stop in Panama so my thoughts are a passport is not needed. But I would never leave the country without a passport...what if you get a port employee that isn't clear on the requirements and causes additional stress at the start of your vacation? 

[hallux]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

The specific country that might require a passport is Columbia. Columbia may also require 6 months left. Also vaccination and covid test. 

I was thinking the same thing, Colombia may be a sticking point rather than Panama...

[graphicguy]

10 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

But this cruise doesn't go through the canal.  It makes a port call at Colon, without actually going through the canal. That's the reason for the OP's question. NCL's statement of  documentation requirements isn't clear for this particular itinerary.

 

Yes, it's a closed loop sailing. "Closed loop" just means that it starts and ends in the same port. Whether a particular country requires a passport is an entirely separate question. Your examples aren't  accurate. St. Maarten, which is Dutch, allows cruise passengers on a closed loop US cruise to enter without a passport. Thousands do so every year.

You’re right.  I mis-spoke.  It is a closed loop sailing.  What I meant to say was the sailing is visiting ports that require a passport.  Whether it goes through the Panama Canal or not is irrelevant.  What NCL’s marketing term for the cruise is irrelevant (Caribbean Cruise). What is relevant is there will be countries they are sailing to/through that DO REQUIRE a passport.

 

There is NO WAY I go to the pier at embarkation without my passport.  Once turned away, they will forego their entire cruise fare because they didn’t have a Passport.

Edited March 28, 2023 by graphicguy

[PTC DAWG]

I was curious, so I looked it up.  Only 38% of US Citizens have a valid passport.

[Homosassa]

 

As others have said forget the closed loop rhetoric. What is important is the requirements of the countries one visits.

 

Two reason for passport on this cruise:

 

1. Colombia requires  cruise ship passengers to have one. Passengers unvaccinated for covid also need a negative test. 

 

2. Cruise has a port of call in Colon, Panama.  Colon is a port of call in a country that requires a passport. Colon is a nothing port but is a jumping off point for excursions throughout the country.

 

 

[gigem_aggies]

8 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

The specific country that might require a passport is Columbia. Columbia may also require 6 months left. Also vaccination and covid test. 

What's interesting is on the excursions page for our sailing, the Panama excursions say "All guests going on tour in Panama will need to bring a valid passport with minimum validity of 6 months." 

Which is really not an issue as they didn't plan to get off in Panama anyway.  

But, there is no such notice on the Columbia excursions.  

I guess I'm just frustrated by the lack of clarity.  Our friends specifically looked at all of this information and because 1) the way it's worded on NCL's travel requirements site and 2) the way it's worded on the cruise description, they thought they were booking a closed loop Caribbean sailing.  Now they have to scramble to get emergency passports.  😞

[Homosassa]

9 minutes ago, gigem_aggies said:

What's interesting is on the excursions page for our sailing, the Panama excursions say "All guests going on tour in Panama will need to bring a valid passport with minimum validity of 6 months." 

Which is really not an issue as they didn't plan to get off in Panama anyway.  

But, there is no such notice on the Columbia excursions.  

 

The old "I won't get off the ship" rationale.

 

It doesn't matter.

 

The ship will need to be cleared by Immigration before anyone is allowed to disembark.  Immigration doesn't care what excuse may be offered for not having a passport.

 

Did your friends use a travel professional to help them book this cruise (travel agent or NCL person)?

 

Did they read the confirmation documentation for the booking, including what was needed for the cruise?

[Two Wheels Only]

16 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I was curious, so I looked it up.  Only 38% of US Citizens have a valid passport.

 

It used to be even lower.

 

I get that in the US, citizens can travel thousands of miles in multiple directions without ever needing a passport but I just don't understand the aversion to getting one. It's not difficult to get. It's not expensive to get. It lasts for years (longer for adults than for children). It takes away the worry of "Do I need a passport for....?".

 

Is it just ".. don't need one cuz don't need ta visit some furrin' country cuz...'Merica!"? 🤔

[Lupush]

Your friends would be crazy to travel to Costa Rica, Colombia, and DR without a passport.  Something happens in one of those countries and you're going to want a passport for various reasons.

[njkate]

Well you have expressed to your friends the importance of a passport it’s now up to them either haul their butts to a passport office for an expedited one or show up at embarkation without one and risk being denied boarding.

Why anyone would cruise anywhere without one mystifies me. 

[graphicguy]

12 minutes ago, njkate said:

Well you have expressed to your friends the importance of a passport it’s now up to them either haul their butts to a passport office for an expedited one or show up at embarkation without one and risk being denied boarding.

Why anyone would cruise anywhere without one mystifies me. 

Well said!

[UKstages]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

I was curious, so I looked it up.  Only 38% of US Citizens have a valid passport.

 

that figure is more or less correct. (i've heard 40%.) but the odd thing is that more than 70% of americans say they have traveled abroad at some point in their lives. so... do the other 30% have expired passports?  have they given up traveling? or are they all cruisers? or did they visit mexico or canada long ago when passports were not required?

 

in any case, the fact that a majority of americans do not have passports has long been a major obstacle to growth in the travel industry. i remember a few years ago that qantas paid americans to get a passport if they booked a trip!

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

The specific country that might require a passport is Columbia. Columbia may also require 6 months left. Also vaccination and covid test. 

Right...I failed to pick up on the Cartagena port call. Colombia is in South America. And yes to Colombia's vaccination or test requirement per NCL's website https://www.ncl.com/travel-requirements-by-country .

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, Two Wheels Only said:

It's not difficult to get.

That part isn't true, you know. Waiting 4-5 months for something is NOT the definition of not difficult. That being said, since I've had a passport since 1984, it's crazy to me that some people who plan to travel don't already have one. But the fact that there's such a backlog of applications surely isn't a point in favor of the "what's the big deal" argument. The State Dept really needs to get its act together and speed things up. (I am fortunate in that my office is mere steps from a passport office that can do same-day issuance of passports)

[njkate]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

That part isn't true, you know. Waiting 4-5 months for something is NOT the definition of not difficult. That being said, since I've had a passport since 1984, it's crazy to me that some people who plan to travel don't already have one. But the fact that there's such a backlog of applications surely isn't a point in favor of the "what's the big deal" argument. The State Dept really needs to get its act together and speed things up. (I am fortunate in that my office is mere steps from a passport office that can do same-day issuance of passports)

With planning it's not really difficult. I always start my renewal 6 months before expiration and don't plan any international trips or cruises until new one has arrived.

[PTC DAWG]

36 minutes ago, UKstages said:

 

that figure is more or less correct. (i've heard 40%.) but the odd thing is that more than 70% of americans say they have traveled abroad at some point in their lives. so... do the other 30% have expired passports?  have they given up traveling? or are they all cruisers? or did they visit mexico or canada long ago when passports were not required?

 

in any case, the fact that a majority of americans do not have passports has long been a major obstacle to growth in the travel industry. i remember a few years ago that qantas paid americans to get a passport if they booked a trip!

Yes, around 30% have expired or otherwise invalid passports, no the other 30% never had a passport.  It is also very income driven, which makes sense to me. 

[Panhandle Couple]

I believe there was a thread here last week or so on the disembarkation at LA from a canal cruise.

 

It seems Columbia and Panama are 2 countries that Customs considers mandatory old style screening when getting off the ship back in US.  Even if NCL (or any other cruise line) lets you on w/o a passport, you are not getting back into USA without one.

 

That could be a problem.

[DCGuy64]

21 minutes ago, njkate said:

With planning it's not really difficult. I always start my renewal 6 months before expiration and don't plan any international trips or cruises until new one has arrived.

Yes, but you're on this cruise site in the first place, which likely means you've traveled a lot and know about these kinds of things. So that puts you at probably under 1% of all Americans who likely a) don't travel abroad frequently and b) would be put off by the notion of having to wait 6 months or more for a passport. We live in an instant gratification society and I think the long wait times would shock many people. Side note: when my passport was up for renewal (and I didn't wait until the last minute, either: it expired in November 2021 and I applied in March 2021), it took about 7 weeks to get it. That was lightning fast compared to now.

Edited March 28, 2023 by DCGuy64