Is Azamara going under???

[MetravelUtoo?]

My flights have been cancelled again due to NON PAYMENT from Azamara, I paid in full 01/30/23.  So, once again I’m on terminal hold with customer service and once again, the seats I booked and paid for have been cancelled and refunded.  IF I’m successful at getting the flights reinstated I probably won’t get the seats I wanted.  
 

Like so many of you, this is not the only screwed up thing on my reservation.  Shuttle I paid for in BCN has disappeared, they show I owe a balance which I do not and when I was finally able to see my reservation online and tried to cancel an excursion for our 2nd day it didn’t work.  Oh, and at one point they showed close to accurate loyalty points now they are back to zero…far from the Discoverer Plus level I have earned.

 

I’ve been on over 30 cruises in the last 10 years.  Never have I ever experienced such ineptness and poor customer service.  It makes me under if Azamara is going “belly up”!?!

[Grandma Cruising]

52 minutes ago, MetravelUtoo? said:

My flights have been cancelled again due to NON PAYMENT from Azamara, I paid in full 01/30/23.  So, once again I’m on terminal hold with customer service and once again, the seats I booked and paid for have been cancelled and refunded.  IF I’m successful at getting the flights reinstated I probably won’t get the seats I wanted.  
 

Like so many of you, this is not the only screwed up thing on my reservation.  Shuttle I paid for in BCN has disappeared, they show I owe a balance which I do not and when I was finally able to see my reservation online and tried to cancel an excursion for our 2nd day it didn’t work.  Oh, and at one point they showed close to accurate loyalty points now they are back to zero…far from the Discoverer Plus level I have earned.

 

I’ve been on over 30 cruises in the last 10 years.  Never have I ever experienced such ineptness and poor customer service.  It makes me under if Azamara is going “belly up”!?!

Everyone on CC who has embarked since the new website was ‘up has reported that everything was sorted out and all OK once aboard. I think it’s just the implementation of the new website and the poor data they got from RCCL.

[Marylebone37]

The poor data? That's why any IT department with a brain tests the data conversion algorithms, fixes the errors, re-tests them again, fixes the errors, re-tests them again… and so on and so on… until they're down to a small subset of data integrity issues that can be manually dealt with. I can recall many posts both on this Board and others commenting on the poor systems at RCCL/Celebrity/Azamara.  Aren't they just having the last laugh! Sorry, don't mean to be preachy, so just frustrated with all this crap and I've got a cruise coming up with AZ in 5 weeks times.

[DenGNNJ]

1 hour ago, Grandma Cruising said:

Everyone on CC who has embarked since the new website was ‘up has reported that everything was sorted out and all OK once aboard. I think it’s just the implementation of the new website and the poor data they got from RCCL.

You kind of have to fly to the city where the cruise port is first and embark for things to be sorted out the way you described.  Can’t do that if the flight reservation has been cancelled due to nonpayment.

 

The website is just a consumer facing user interface.  The problems you’re seeing there is just a tiny reflection of likely much deeper problems that Azamara is experiencing with their back end systems.

Edited April 17, 2023 by DenGNNJ

[tgg]

2 hours ago, MetravelUtoo? said:

My flights have been cancelled again due to NON PAYMENT from Azamara, I paid in full 01/30/23.  So, once again I’m on terminal hold with customer service and once again, the seats I booked and paid for have been cancelled and refunded. 

 

What am I missing?  If you paid in full and the flights have been cancelled due to non-payment, who sent you a refund? 

[crzrr]

19 minutes ago, tgg said:

 

What am I missing?  If you paid in full and the flights have been cancelled due to non-payment, who sent you a refund? 

I wondered the same thing.  Also the OP seems to indicate this is not the first time this has happened.  So, I'm confused.

[MetravelUtoo?]

Sorry for the confusion.  Azamara did not pay the ticket fare twice, that’s why both reservations were cancelled.  
 

I had booked and paid separately for my desired seats, when flights were cancelled so were the seats and the airline refunded the seats only.

[Grandma Cruising]

15 hours ago, Marylebone37 said:

The poor data? That's why any IT department with a brain tests the data conversion algorithms, fixes the errors, re-tests them again, fixes the errors, re-tests them again… and so on and so on… until they're down to a small subset of data integrity issues that can be manually dealt with. I can recall many posts both on this Board and others commenting on the poor systems at RCCL/Celebrity/Azamara.  Aren't they just having the last laugh! Sorry, don't mean to be preachy, so just frustrated with all this crap and I've got a cruise coming up with AZ in 5 weeks times.

As this was a transfer from RCCL to what has now become a competitor it’s possible that there wasn’t the opportunity to trial the data beforehand - it depends what the contract between them says.

[uktog]

4 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

As this was a transfer from RCCL to what has now become a competitor it’s possible that there wasn’t the opportunity to trial the data beforehand - it depends what the contract between them says.

You’d still parallel run then once you got the data pack. 

It’s clearly a dreadful migration from Azamaras perspective now they need a recovery plan and but guests have to help. We all need to stop fiddling around worrying about minor issues or things relating to cruises months ahead and sending forms in and give them the space to fix the immediate big near time issues. 
Im not even logging into my account it was wrong last time I looked, the excursions were missing etc. I believe everything will be rightfully restored in time. 
 

I do worry for those flights who have found the flights have disappeared and have validated that information with the airlines. It is people like them who should have the phone lines left clear for them to call-in.  I am sure there is a logical explanation as to what has happened and I hope that bookings can be restored quickly.

 

I did look to price something yesterday at that stage everything was down, it came back later. It’s clearly an IT migration has gone horribly wrong and I certainly wouldn’t like to be at the shop and dealing with that either in the IT teams or on the ships.

[Marylebone37]

Yes, you sure would run parallel once you received the data files.  It's like Data Conversion 101 — very basic stuff for any IT department.

 

And as DenGNNJ mentioned above, we've been talking mostly here about their front end booking engine and customer reservation management system.  I wonder how bad things are with their inventory management, catering, and all the other systems that are relied upon to run a successful cruise operation? With this kind of corporate IT management in place, it must be pretty bad.  I wonder how long before we hear of the on-board experience being impacted, which admittedly, has not been the case of as of now (well, at least here on Cruise Critic).

[uktog]

4 minutes ago, Marylebone37 said:

Yes, you sure would run parallel once you received the data files.  It's like Data Conversion 101 — very basic stuff for any IT department.

 

And as DenGNNJ mentioned above, we've been talking mostly here about their front end booking engine and customer reservation management system.  I wonder how bad things are with their inventory management, catering, and all the other systems that are relied upon to run a successful cruise operation? With this kind of corporate IT management in place, it must be pretty bad.  I wonder how long before we hear of the on-board experience being impacted, which admittedly, has not been the case of as of now (well, at least here on Cruise Critic).

I am not concerned about the ships end as they migrated to a new management system very smoothly some months ago but I agree that this front end, which is what drives revenue hasn't worked

Edited April 18, 2023 by uktog

[Riocca]

Obviously none of us can actually know what is happening but in view of the payment date given by the OP the booking would have been with Choice Air which is a Royal Caribbean entity so is it Choice Air that’s failed to pay the booking or should the booking been transferred to Azamara and that’s not happened. There are too many black holes appearing in this data transfer, probably most should have been anticipated but now’s not the time for recriminations but to get it sorted especially for those who are travelling in the immediate future.

[Marylebone37]

27 minutes ago, uktog said:

I am not concerned about the ships end as they migrated to a new management system very smoothly some months ago but I agree that this front end, which is what drives revenue hasn't worked

I am pretty concerned and am happy that I only have a single paid in full booking with them at the end of May.  These IT "folks" (to be kind) are still in charge of their other management systems which require constant vigilance, software and operating system patches/upgrades, disaster recovery planning/testing, and more.  If these same "folks" who couldn't even manage a rather straightforward migration of reservations for 4 small ships are responsible for the ongoing oversight of many other complex systems, it will only be a matter of time until things degrade further across the brand.  Such a shame as I have been a true Azamara fan!

 

And wouldn't some frequent communications from management to booked guests be nice to advise us the issues, progress against plans to remedy the issues, and reassurance that all be corrected by X date? They did all that pre-cutover communications staged very well, but nearly nothing since then except for that one email from the CEO that some received and many did not (I did not get it, even with a May, 2023 booking).  

[laurieb]

32 minutes ago, Riocca said:

Obviously none of us can actually know what is happening but in view of the payment date given by the OP the booking would have been with Choice Air which is a Royal Caribbean entity so is it Choice Air that’s failed to pay the booking or should the booking been transferred to Azamara and that’s not happened. 

This is exactly what I was thinking.  Blame RCCL for this, not Azamara.  RCCL has done nothing to assist in the smooth transition away from them.  We have no idea what kind of barriers were set in place by RCCL regarding the data transfer.  Maybe a little (or a lot) less criticism and more support and patience is called for...

[Solent Richard]

16 hours ago, tgg said:

 

What am I missing?  If you paid in full and the flights have been cancelled due to non-payment, who sent you a refund? 

Yes, exactly. I'll read on....

[Marylebone37]

23 minutes ago, laurieb said:

This is exactly what I was thinking.  Blame RCCL for this, not Azamara.  RCCL has done nothing to assist in the smooth transition away from them.  We have no idea what kind of barriers were set in place by RCCL regarding the data transfer.  Maybe a little (or a lot) less criticism and more support and patience is called for...

I am all for support, BUT, that's a two-way street.  How about some frequent and clear support from them in terms of communications on what the issues are, what they are doing to resolve them, and the expected timeline for completion?  Please, give us anything — by email or right here on Cruise Critic (and especially with a thread titled like this one!).  

 

But no, they are majorly stressing lots of people out by leaving us all wondering when things will be fixed after nearly a MONTH!! since the date when the migration should have been completed.  Come on Azamara, we'll gladly show you our support if you show some transparency and support to us, your loyal guests who do really enjoy and admire the brand.    

[Kelownadon]

I had a similar experience with Choice Air when we booked our January 2023 Caribbean cruise with Azamara. Some six months after booking with Choice Air and paying in full for our flights we decided to book and pay for reserved seats. Choice Air explained that they could not reserve seats as somehow they were not able to view the seating arrangements on the plane and that I would have to call the airline company itself. I called the airline company and was told that I could not reserve seats at that time as Choice Air had yet to pay for the tickets even though I had paid in full some six months prior. Anyway, long story short, another call to Choice Air got them to pay the bill and then I had to wait another 2 days for the paper work to get done, I was able to reserve our seats with the airline company itself. Never again will I use Choice Air. 

[fruitmachine]

2 hours ago, Grandma Cruising said:

As this was a transfer from RCCL to what has now become a competitor it’s possible that there wasn’t the opportunity to trial the data beforehand - it depends what the contract between them says.

If that's the case, then it was a really badly negotiated contract!

No, I still think this is poor execution.

[susiesan]

Always book your own air on all cruise lines. Never do cruise air, you have no control if something goes wrong. I have been on over 50 cruises with multiple lines and have never ever had the cruise line do my air.

[Grandma Cruising]

When people mention running parallel systems, I don’t really understand how this could work.

If you’re moving from one system belonging to RCCL to another you bought in (Verison Seaware is a system that is being used by other cruise lines & holiday companies), how can you run in parallel, unless that was agreed with RCCL (and why would they when you’re now a competitor.).

I can see that if a company is moving to new software and has to migrate their own data across to the new system, it would be entirely sensible to run both systems together until you are sure the new system is working properly. However in this case the data being migrated to the new system is from one company to another. Surely to run in parallel would mean RCCL continuing to take and manage Azamara bookings - that seems unlikely.

[cruisinclined]

Just tried to check in for a June cruise which was booked through an agency and paid in full. No air involved, booked separately.

It won't allow me to check in as it shows me owing a sum of money. Luckily there is time for the agent to resolve this and one assumes there in an error.

Just adding this info. to the ongoing discussion (not asking you for solutions which I am asking others to resolve).

[uktog]

Is it possible that the “money owing” program is misleading and all it needs is a few words on the page to allay fears?  

I say this because I had exactly the same thing on a booking with Explora who use the same software as Azamara are migrating to. In my case, it showed the money as being due for about eight weeks after it was paid over and the reason is that the cruise companies have arrangements with travel agents that the agents hold the money on behalf of the Cruise line until a date quite near sailing when they hand it over. I do not recall the old Azamara system showing how much I owed for Cruises that were booked through Travel Agents but now they do. The amounts they show are wrong, but I can reconcile the difference because they relate to the discount the travel agent is giving. 

If that is what is happening here, it just needs a little adjustment to the program to hide that page for those booked through agencies and also allow excursions to be booked even when agents haven’t settled as happened before.
 

You could never check in before your agent had paid over all the money. I do recall one time I had an issue with an agency that had held onto money longer than they should have, and that delayed my online check-in, but then resolved itself once payment was made. 

 

[Marylebone37]

48 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

When people mention running parallel systems, I don’t really understand how this could work.

If you’re moving from one system belonging to RCCL to another you bought in (Verison Seaware is a system that is being used by other cruise lines & holiday companies), how can you run in parallel, unless that was agreed with RCCL (and why would they when you’re now a competitor.).

I can see that if a company is moving to new software and has to migrate their own data across to the new system, it would be entirely sensible to run both systems together until you are sure the new system is working properly. However in this case the data being migrated to the new system is from one company to another. Surely to run in parallel would mean RCCL continuing to take and manage Azamara bookings - that seems unlikely.

Hi Grandma, there are many IT strategies that could have been properly executed to ensure a smooth transition. But those details are probably not appropriate to the topic/concerns at hand. Azamara totally screwed it up… whether that was in the system/data turnover contract negotiations early on or during the actual system conversion itself.  

[fruitmachine]

3 hours ago, Grandma Cruising said:

When people mention running parallel systems, I don’t really understand how this could work.

If you’re moving from one system belonging to RCCL to another you bought in (Verison Seaware is a system that is being used by other cruise lines & holiday companies), how can you run in parallel, unless that was agreed with RCCL (and why would they when you’re now a competitor.).

I can see that if a company is moving to new software and has to migrate their own data across to the new system, it would be entirely sensible to run both systems together until you are sure the new system is working properly. However in this case the data being migrated to the new system is from one company to another. Surely to run in parallel would mean RCCL continuing to take and manage Azamara bookings - that seems unlikely.

How do you think Lloyds migrated millions of accounts to the TSB computer system when Lloyds and TSB merged?  Did hundreds of thousands of customers complain that their balances were wrong or all the history was missing from their accounts?  No.  [It was a different story when TSB split from Lloyds and migrated to Banco Sabadell's systems, demonstrating that with insufficient care it can go very wrong.]

It's more about repeated dress rehearsals, each time checking the quality of the post-migration data on the target system.  Is it what you expect?  Do extracts of both systems match up?  Is all your standing data like excursion descriptions present and correct?  

I can't see that any of this has been done?

[chrisbu315]

There are likely fingerprints all over this knife, but there is no excuse.  This transition was poorly executed.  There should always be contingency plans.

 

If I were Oceania or Viking Ocean, I would come up with a clever advertising campaign to lure over the Azamara faithful.