Bacterial Hand Contamination and Transfer after Use of Contaminated Bulk-Soap-Refillable Dispensers

[HabitualLineStepper]

I just came across this. What is everyone's take on cruise lines exclusively using these refillable dispensers? I did notice on HAL that I am able to flip up the top of the dispenser.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3126420/

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/hotel-manager-explains-why-bulk-toiletries-in-your-room-arent-safe/

Edited August 5, 2023 by HabitualLineStepper

[BruceMuzz]

The odds of becoming infected by using these toiletries are actually quite small.

There is another issue that should concern you much more.

How often do you sanitize your mobile telephone?

For most people the truthful answer would be "Never".

 

My colleagues at the VSP (Vessel Sanitation Program) tell me that your mobile telephone is the #1 Vector for spreading viruses to yourself, your friends, and your family.

[Kristelle]

For me these things come under  - things that are a risk  in theory but have no practical relevance to real life

 

A ship or hotel is not an operating theatre - yes, it should have reasonable hygiene measures but it is not neccesary to be sterile.

[fruitmachine]

It's the combination of water and soap when you wash your hands that gets rid of the bacteria and viruses on your hands.  You're not just physically removing them; the lather destroys them.

 

The same can't be said for lotions or similar.  If you're going to worry (personally, I would never) then worry about using them.

 

Just wash your hands!  Don't find an excuse not to!

[mom says]

Meh. That sample size was so small it would be premature to draw any firm conclusions without repeated large sample trials. And in the field study, many of the participants were children. How many  of those wash their hands thoroughly or properly?.

 

Just wash and rinse your hands properly, and if you're that concerned, follow up with a shot of sanitizer.

[Kristelle]

and bring your own toiletries if you think re-fillable shampoo/soap dispensers are a risk ( I don't)

 

I would much rather, on environmental grounds, that hotels/ships use these than individual plastic bottles every day.

 

Sure it is cheaper for them too but thats ok by me.

[Toofarfromthesea]

Just because we can measure things in tinier quantities doesn't all of a sudden make them bigger risks.

[Keksie]

The first article mentions that a risk to public health is unclear.  The second article is just one of those click bait articles.  It might be healthier to avoid these types of articles and consult with your own physician if you have any concerns about travel and health.  Now that all the protocols have been lifted we are back to travel as usual.

[HabitualLineStepper]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:53 PM, mom says said:

Meh. That sample size was so small it would be premature to draw any firm conclusions without repeated large sample trials. And in the field study, many of the participants were children. How many  of those wash their hands thoroughly or properly?.

 

Just wash and rinse your hands properly, and if you're that concerned, follow up with a shot of sanitizer.

 

It is a study published on the NIH website. That gives it some validity. The small sample size with such a large proportion of negative results was a little disturbing. You would think that they need to conduct this test many times over before they found such results.

 

Children? In the US, people 18 and older are considered adults. Using children as test subjects is much harder to do in the US.

[HabitualLineStepper]

On 8/5/2023 at 3:03 AM, BruceMuzz said:

The odds of becoming infected by using these toiletries are actually quite small.

There is another issue that should concern you much more.

How often do you sanitize your mobile telephone?

For most people the truthful answer would be "Never".

 

My colleagues at the VSP (Vessel Sanitation Program) tell me that your mobile telephone is the #1 Vector for spreading viruses to yourself, your friends, and your family.

 

Are mobile telephones filled with your own germs. I don't let anyone touch my phone.

[BruceMuzz]

3 minutes ago, HabitualLineStepper said:

 

Are mobile telephones filled with your own germs. I don't let anyone touch my phone.

But the vast majority of people are constantly handing their mobile telephones to friends to talk, listen, read, and watch something on the phone. Everyone handles it, presses it against their faces, and passes it to the next one. A perfect germ storm.

[GeezerCouple]

4 hours ago, fruitmachine said:

It's the combination of water and soap when you wash your hands that gets rid of the bacteria and viruses on your hands.  You're not just physically removing them; the lather destroys them.

 

The same can't be said for lotions or similar.  If you're going to worry (personally, I would never) then worry about using them.

 

Just wash your hands!  Don't find an excuse not to!

 

Whoa.

I'm not aware that anyone is suggesting "not washing hands" or avoiding soap! 😱

Yes, washing hands is *very* important, and that includes using some type of soap, not simply a quick rinse in water.

 

There was a discussion about this some time ago, albeit without the two links above in the first post.

We do *not* use those bulk dispensers unless there is no choice.

 

(We might if we knew for certain [but how?] that they were always refilled with new pouches of fresh product, and NOT "topped off" each time... and NOT accessible to tampering.  There are some crazies or oddballs <or select term of choice> out there.)

However, just the simple accumulation of some minor contamination that sits there building up, with slight additions over time, with a container that is never fully cleaned (or so infrequently as barely to count) is not something we want on our bodies.  Not if we have a choice... and we usually do.

 

We always bring our own soap and shampoo or any lotions, etc., whenever we travel.

We have an extra impetus for this: DH has severe allergies to some of the likely ingredients, especially fragrances/etc.

So if we are bringing those items for him, I might as well also use them or have my own.  We have small travel-sized containers that are always ready to go.

 

As for "what's the most gross item in hotel/cruise rooms?  We think it's likely the TV remote.  Those get used by everyone.  They can't easily be cleaned, especially with all the nooks and crannies with those buttons to push, etc.

So we bring some large, thin baggies (not a thicker ziploc, although that would also work, and we always travel with several extras of those, too, which have a variety of uses).  The remote goes in one of those straightaway, and it's very easy to use with the baggie/plastic covering.

 

In a public washroom, if we don't have our own soap with us, yes, we'll use a dispenser for our hands, but it's not going all over our bodies like in showers.

On day trips/excursions, we usually have a tiny bit of soap with us; there are too many places where there just isn't soap available.

Note:  We save the various sizes of little "end slivers" of soap bars, and bring a bunch with us on extended trips, and slip one or two into a tote, along with some tissues, a wrapped/sealed snack bar, etc.  That usually includes a few "roll ends" of TP, which can be flattened for easy carrying.

These things can come in handy in some surprising places!

 

GC

[diesel1973]

I have a flip phone so I don't have to worry about someone else using my phone !!

[Kristelle]

Now that  I think about it - yes I pass my phone to other people for them to look at photos, see memes etc

 However I am as worried about this as I am about soap dispensers - which is zero.

 

 most things in life - remote controls, benches, chairs, trolleys, doors  etc etc are touched by other people - thats ok, life isnt meant to be lived in a sterile bubble.

 

Unless you have some extreme immuno suppressant condition - in which case travelling probably isnt great anyway - then these things really do not present any risk.

[ldubs]

Just seems going too far to me.   We don't live in a hermetically sealed world.   

[mom says]

15 hours ago, HabitualLineStepper said:

 

Are mobile telephones filled with your own germs. I don't let anyone touch my phone.

That's great. And do you never set your phone down? Are there only your "germs" on that surface? And do you sanitize your hands, which have touched heaven only knows what, before touching your phone?  Just saying.

[Philob]

Mythbusters episode about toothbrushes in the bathroom...😶

[Kristelle]

2 hours ago, Philob said:

Mythbusters episode about toothbrushes in the bathroom...😶

 

 

Which showed that there was miniscule faecal traces on toothbrushes anywhere in the house - not just in bathrooms near a toilet

 

and same would be so of remote controls, quilts, door handles, chairs, benches, cutlery, cups, any surface.

 

which proves what exactly??

 

well it could prove we need to sanitise and/or plastic cover absolutely everything every time we touch it (rather impractical)

 

or it could prove miniscule amounts of things, including yucky things we dont like thinking about, are everywhere because life is not lived in a sterile bubble.

 

take sensible recommended precautions - wash hands after toilet, before eating etc - you know ,the same old well known stuff - but don't become paranoid or obsessed with 'germs everywhere' and hypothetical risks.

 

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

18 hours ago, Kristelle said:

Now that  I think about it - yes I pass my phone to other people for them to look at photos, see memes etc

 However I am as worried about this as I am about soap dispensers - which is zero.

 

 most things in life - remote controls, benches, chairs, trolleys, doors  etc etc are touched by other people - thats ok, life isnt meant to be lived in a sterile bubble.

 

Unless you have some extreme immuno suppressant condition - in which case travelling probably isnt great anyway - then these things really do not present any risk.

 

I was, and continue to be, amused when using a paper towel to protect yourself from the evil bathroom handle came into vogue.

[PurpleHays]

On 8/7/2023 at 11:15 PM, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I was, and continue to be, amused when using a paper towel to protect yourself from the evil bathroom handle came into vogue.

I'm guilty of this for years, but have seen far too many people not wash their hands after leaving a bathroom stall. Even if you don't do anything but adjust clothing, it you touch the slide lock, your hands are dirty.  Every other nasty hand has touched that lock. 

 

As an RN of close to 35 years practice, super clean is impossible. Just wash your hands--soap, running water, and friction are all that is required--or use a sanitizer. Don't worry too much about other things.

 

(No, I did not read either article/link)

[Mary229]

  If it bothers you lift it out of the frame and wash it with the soap inside.  Simple enough .

[klfrodo]

Way too far down my list of things to actually be concerned about.