Celebrity's new "All Inclusive" 2023 style

[Ex-Airbalancer]

19 minutes ago, hcat said:

.

 

We did like the old good,better best( ?) plan.  We usually picked 2..grats and  classic  alc.. (we already get enough internet minutes from Cap Club level.)

 

our decisions on  any future bookings with X will be  less abt pricing plans and will focus on food quality and  menu options

Yes , the old good, better ,best was a better option 

we would pick drinks and tips 

We found basic on our April TA was best Wi-Fi we had 

Has this change since April 

 

[the penguins]

6 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Yes , the old good, better ,best was a better option 

we would pick drinks and tips 

We found basic on our April TA was best Wi-Fi we had 

Has this change since April 

 

Being able to pick drinks and tips was part of the problem for X as the "tips" went straight to the crew leaving X with just the "drinks" element to "play with".

Bundling just WiFi and Drinks together will give X much more control/ ability to vary the offer.

[hcat]

49 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Yes , the old good, better ,best was a better option 

we would pick drinks and tips 

We found basic on our April TA was best Wi-Fi we had 

Has this change since April 

 

We have not cruised since April but some posts mentioned that the Starlink wifi was very good,  but not the basic.

 

Much  depends on ship location, weather etc but we are hoping that basic wifi will let us send/receive a few  e mails to/from home.  I Usually post pics to cruise critic..not a full live ftom review but just a few ! Hope it will be ok...Next ship is Ascent  so it should be ok...

[TeeRick]

On 9/7/2023 at 9:36 AM, weregoingcruising said:

Have they been sold and just trying to squeeze as much money out  of us before the sale is finalized?

In a financial manner yes.  The leveraging they needed to do during the Covid shutdown resulted in massive debt and the holders of this debt in reality are the new "owners". 

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

We have not cruised since April but some posts mentioned that the Starlink wifi was very good,  but not the basic.

 

Much  depends on ship location, weather etc but we are hoping that basic wifi will let us send/receive a few  e mails to/from home.  I Usually post pics to cruise critic..not a full live ftom review but just a few ! Hope it will be ok...Next ship is Ascent  so it should be ok...

Based on our experience don't be surprised if the basic doesn't connect to Cruise Critic. Basic emails worked well.

[jelayne]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:14 AM, Saab4444 said:

This is already clear as they take out the value of gratuities and add nothing. As simple as that!

Depending on whether they change the price for AI for AQ and below.

[grandgeezer]

Anybody else notice that this goes into affect days after the end of the third quarter? They probably didn’t want the stock to drop based on the earnings reported for that quarter. This will give them time to rethink their position and adjust in time for year end.

[hcat]

Does it seems there will be a rush to book before 10/4?

[NMTraveller]

21 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Have you just come back in time from October 4? Possibly, maybe even probably true, but no one knows that yet.

Bridges and swamp land for sale...

 

Yes we do not know that,  but based upon previous price increases...

It does not have to happen on October 4th.  They would be smarter to do it in gradual increments.

 

On group bookings we had the AI and the tips included previously.

 

And how would anyone know whether it was an increase in the cruise fare or an increase due to the tips not being included?

Edited September 9, 2023 by NMTraveller

[markeb]

21 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Bridges and swamp land for sale...

 

Yes we do not know that,  but based upon previous price increases...

It does not have to happen on October 4th.  They would be smarter to do it in gradual increments.

 

On group bookings we had the AI and the tips included previously.

 

And how would anyone know whether it was an increase in the cruise fare or an increase due to the tips not being included?

 

All true. But dropping the tips and leaving the fare at the same rate, or worse raising the fares on October 4th would be so insane as to be inconceivable. It's possible, but it's not a foregone conclusion as so many jumped on in this thread. 

 

Yes, I assume fares will go up in time. And bounce around as usual. And occasionally include gratuities as a promo. And in six months (or less), they'll do something else, maybe even return to the previous AI with a different name. Because they're focusing on operations instead of a long term strategy. Maybe the strategy so many of us loved wasn't actually a successful business model. And banks and institutional investors want to be paid and see an ROE. 

 

And there will be pressure on the TA community to pay the gratuities on their group bookings and eat into their commission. Since many if not most travelers won't have seen the TA FAQs and blame their TA, not Celebrity. Which is actually brilliant in a way.

[deliver42]

According to one of the vloggers on You Tube, who loves Celebrity, They've made a new announcement about the tips. I'll try to remember. If you book through a TA with an established group by Dec. 31, 2023, you will still get tips on any cruise through 12,31/2025. Other than an established group, the rest remains the same, 10//04.2023 blah, blah, blah. I think they're afraid their losing groups to other, more sane, lines.

[Dolebludger]

All this comes at a most when most are sick of the attempts to expand tipping into transactions where it is not traditional. 

[hubofhockey]

Gratuities should be included with EVERY booking.  That would take care of Europeans who don’t tip as it would be part of price and North Americans wouldn’t have to worry about tipping either, if included.  These changes seem awkward and detrimental to hard working crew and passengers (only good for X).

[Dolebludger]

I certainly agree. Tipping has gone over the rails in the US. I had a need for a tow truck last week as my SUV went dead on my own property. It was towed to my auto service garage, which is the nearest, and I paid by AmEx on a hand held. It came up with tipping options. My problem was that tipping a tow truck driver us not traditional — even in the US. I told the driver that, and he said he wasn’t getting the tips, so check “no tip” if I wished, and I did.  Now, the people at the repair facility brought out a code reader and found the SUV had gone into  security mode, whatever that is, and with the code reader, the SUV started and ran fine. Now the service garage guy had spent about 1/4 hour on this, so I offered to pay. They refused, saying “come back for your repair needs” which I’ve been doing for 11 years and will continue to do. And certainly no mention of a tip.

 

Back in the 1990s, we used to cruise Royal. You could brings drinks of any sort on board. But we brought on only soda and beer, as they sold spirits you could drink in your room for much less than onshore prices. Tips were confined to the envelopes we were furnished that stated “for my room steward and for my waiter. Back then , you had the same table and waiters for the whole cruise so we were tipping two people.well,who are we tipping now? Now with :included tipping” which a guest thatmcan opt out of any tip, how dies he now who he is cutting out/? Maydr]e dont servive he wouoj=l

[the penguins]

4 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

Gratuities should be included with EVERY booking.  That would take care of Europeans who don’t tip as it would be part of price and North Americans wouldn’t have to worry about tipping either, if included.  These changes seem awkward and detrimental to hard working crew and passengers (only good for X).

We are European and tip as do all our friends.

We have long argued that the basic ( Sail Only) prices should include: tips, port fees and Government taxes. Incidentally it's illegal for the last 2 to be excluded (or added later) in the UK and throughout Europe and X has no difficulty with that. X also includes the tips on all cruises sold in New Zealand and Australia where they promote it as - tips not required or some such phrase.

Passengers would then be free to choose the options that suit: drinks, WiFi, drinks and WiFi or nothing - simple and transparent.

Hopefully the pricing structure from 4 October will be a step towards the above.

[the penguins]

3 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

I certainly agree. Tipping has gone over the rails in the US. I had a need for a tow truck last week as my SUV went dead on my own property. It was towed to my auto service garage, which is the nearest, and I paid by AmEx on a hand held. It came up with tipping options. My problem was that tipping a tow truck driver us not traditional — even in the US. I told the driver that, and he said he wasn’t getting the tips, so check “no tip” if I wished, and I did.  Now, the people at the repair facility brought out a code reader and found the SUV had gone into  security mode, whatever that is, and with the code reader, the SUV started and ran fine. Now the service garage guy had spent about 1/4 hour on this, so I offered to pay. They refused, saying “come back for your repair needs” which I’ve been doing for 11 years and will continue to do. And certainly no mention of a tip.

 

Back in the 1990s, we used to cruise Royal. You could brings drinks of any sort on board. But we brought on only soda and beer, as they sold spirits you could drink in your room for much less than onshore prices. Tips were confined to the envelopes we were furnished that stated “for my room steward and for my waiter. Back then , you had the same table and waiters for the whole cruise so we were tipping two people.well,who are we tipping now? Now with :included tipping” which a guest thatmcan opt out of any tip, how dies he now who he is cutting out/? Maydr]e dont servive he wouoj=l

A few points on "included tips"

You can get a list of how the tips are split at Guest Services - just ask.

You can't remove "included tips" from specific people it's all or nothing. If you reduce the tips the reduction is split pro rata across everyone who is included in the tips pool.

Removing the "included tips" penalises the people who you have no way of reimbursing for example cleaners and laundry staff.

If you don't like the system don't book with X but please don't penalise the staff.

 

[waddle]

7 hours ago, hubofhockey said:

Gratuities should be included with EVERY booking.  That would take care of Europeans who don’t tip as it would be part of price and North Americans wouldn’t have to worry about tipping either, if included.  These changes seem awkward and detrimental to hard working crew and passengers (only good for X).

P&O is popular with UK passengers, prices all in GBP, no tips on any cruise/drinks etc, leaving excellent service to be recognised individually at the end of the trip

 

Also, if cruising Europe, quite a few UK mobile/cell contracts include roaming data so Wifi less of an issue unless you have numerous sea days

 

We prefer Celebrity as a line and are always attracted to ‘all in’ but with gratuities and drinks being our key elements. It certainly encourages us to shop around looking for those cruise co’s who are offering no tips/included 

[hubofhockey]

6 hours ago, the penguins said:

We are European and tip as do all our friends.

We have long argued that the basic ( Sail Only) prices should include: tips, port fees and Government taxes. Incidentally it's illegal for the last 2 to be excluded (or added later) in the UK and throughout Europe and X has no difficulty with that. X also includes the tips on all cruises sold in New Zealand and Australia where they promote it as - tips not required or some such phrase.

Passengers would then be free to choose the options that suit: drinks, WiFi, drinks and WiFi or nothing - simple and transparent.

Hopefully the pricing structure from 4 October will be a step towards the above.

I didn’t write ALL Europeans don’t tip.  My point was less tip than US passengers. If you tack it onto everyone’s price, nobody gets hurt.  However, I believe  prepaid gratuities should cover everything, including drink service, specialty restaurants, and excursions.  

 

The October 4 steps are a step backward, not forward. 

 

As for options that suit, WIFI should be included to all as part of the cost.  Technology has gotten us to that point.  Drinks should be a choice.  Cruise lines overcharge for packages and most can do better buying by the drink, especially on port days. Every change made by Celebrity lately benefits them and are not customer or employee friendly.  

[the penguins]

1 minute ago, hubofhockey said:

I didn’t write ALL Europeans don’t tip.  My point was less tip than US passengers. If you tack it onto everyone’s price, nobody gets hurt.  However, I believe  prepaid gratuities should cover everything, including drink service, specialty restaurants, and excursions.  

 

The October 4 steps are a step backward, not forward. 

 

As for options that suit, WIFI should be included to all as part of the cost.  Technology has gotten us to that point.  Drinks should be a choice.  Cruise lines overcharge for packages and most can do better buying by the drink, especially on port days. Every change made by Celebrity lately benefits them and are not customer or employee friendly.  

Your suggested "inclusions "would reduce choice and increase costs

Excursions: we never book X's excursions.

 Speciality restaurants can seat around 30% of passengers so charging everyone makes no sense. 

WiFi: we don't need WiFi included and doing so would also penalise Elite and above by removing one of the perks.

Drink tips: should be paid by those ordering the drinks - the more you drink the more you pay. Pay by the drink or book a package - your choice.

 

[Dolebludger]

Celebrity attempts to offer cruises in every price range, all on the same ship. And until recently it has done a good job at it. But although we are from the USA, we feel that paying employees should be the responsibility of the employer, not the customers. Thus, we like having “tips included in the fare” which is really setting the fare at a level that will allow the employees to be paid fairly. Also, having WiFi has really become a necessity for most, so it should be included I all fares. Recently, our small city in the Colorado mountains installed WiFi covering the historic downtown, which is a tourist area. No charge for anybody, and no tax increase. We aren’t familiar with technical issues of providing this service at sea, but my city is very remote too.

[hubofhockey]

3 hours ago, the penguins said:

Your suggested "inclusions "would reduce choice and increase costs

Excursions: we never book X's excursions.

 Speciality restaurants can seat around 30% of passengers so charging everyone makes no sense. 

WiFi: we don't need WiFi included and doing so would also penalise Elite and above by removing one of the perks.

Drink tips: should be paid by those ordering the drinks - the more you drink the more you pay. Pay by the drink or book a package - your choice.

 

I didn’t write excursions should be included.  I wrote gratuities on excursions should be covered.  WIFI should be free everywhere and is some countries.  It’s free at most decent hotels, whether you’re elite or not.  It’s also free on some cruise lines.   Maybe they’ll give you another benefit.  I book Aqua and it forces a drink package on me.  Is that fair?

Edited September 10, 2023 by hubofhockey

[the penguins]

1 minute ago, hubofhockey said:

I didn’t write excursions should be included.  I wrote gratuities on excursions should be covered.  WIFI should be free everywhere and is some countries.  It’s free at most decent hotels, whether you’re elite or not.  Maybe they’ll give you another benefit.  I book Aqua and it forces a drink package on me.  Is that fair?

Excursions: now grats are optional which is how it should be. I.e you pay the people providing the service not X.

From October 4 drinks and Wi-Fi will be optional in Aqua so again X is meeting your preference,

Wi-Fi: nothing is free it’s just added to the cost. We and lots of others do not require unlimited Wi-Fi. 

 

[hubofhockey]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

Excursions: now grats are optional which is how it should be. I.e you pay the people providing the service not X.

From October 4 drinks and Wi-Fi will be optional in Aqua so again X is meeting your preference,

Wi-Fi: nothing is free it’s just added to the cost. We and lots of others do not require unlimited Wi-Fi. 

 

All they have announced so far is that gratuities will not be part of any inclusive package.  If they came out with new policies on WIFI/Drinks with Aqua, I haven’t heard it.

 

Gratuities should be included in the price of a cruise - period.  Agreed on excursions - your tipping should be on your own.  Should be included in all services on the ship though.  

[markeb]

1 hour ago, the penguins said:

Wi-Fi: nothing is free it’s just added to the cost. We and lots of others do not require unlimited Wi-Fi.

 

That may be true for you, but it's almost unheard of for the generation they're trying to attract. I'm 60 and wouldn't dream of staying at a hotel where I had to pay for internet (rare exception for mandatory destination or resort fees which I really consider part of the room cost). I remember when hotels considered internet a revenue center; it's a cost center now and they pretty much have to offer it to most customers to get them in the door. Many of them (Marriott, for instance) give free basic internet and charge for enhanced, with a free upgrade for their higher tier elite members. It will only take a few cruise lines including internet in their fare for it to become the norm on ships as well. (Yes, most airlines still charge for it, but add on fees have become so normal there that I hope it's not a good precedent.)

[markeb]

47 minutes ago, hubofhockey said:

All they have announced so far is that gratuities will not be part of any inclusive package.  If they came out with new policies on WIFI/Drinks with Aqua, I haven’t heard it.

 

Gratuities should be included in the price of a cruise - period.  Agreed on excursions - your tipping should be on your own.  Should be included in all services on the ship though.  

 

The same announcement on gratuities included new policies for AI (without gratuities) to be optional in Aqua. That's pages down by now.