Current load factors

[RD64]

16 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

Is any body else worried about the current load on the ships? I have just read, the Symphony is sailing currently with less than 200 passengers. How about the Serenity?

 

I really want this company to be successful.

 

Ivi

Why is that something to be worried about? Just curious.

[Roland4]

2 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Is any body else worried about the current load on the ships? I have just read, the Symphony is sailing currently with less than 200 passengers. How about the Serenity?

 

I really want this company to be successful.

 

Ivi

When we were on Serenity a month ago I had an interesting conversation with the Onboard Consultant. Crystal fully expected these low numbers through the Summer and Fall. They were so late coming to market with the 2023 itineraries that most people, like ourselves, already had made bookings with other lines. We actually "squeezed in" the sailing we were on. She said that numbers would start to increase significantly starting the beginning of November and right through into 2024. Anecdotally, many of the cruises around the holidays are close to fully booked.

[Keith1010]

8 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Is any body else worried about the current load on the ships? I have just read, the Symphony is sailing currently with less than 200 passengers. How about the Serenity?

 

I really want this company to be successful.

 

Ivi

Ivi, not worried for the reasons I have mentioned including when itineraries came out the new ownership knew that many people already had cruises booked on other lines and the focus was initially mainly on Crystal Society guests.  This is expanding quite q bit and 2024 and beyond are key. In addition, it is important to win back the trust of agents, agencies and consortiums and this is occurring.  Just takes time.

 

Keith 

[BWIVince]

11 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Is any body else worried about the current load on the ships? I have just read, the Symphony is sailing currently with less than 200 passengers. How about the Serenity?

 

I really want this company to be successful.

 

Ivi

I wouldn’t call the numbers surprising — I would probably think they’re about what Crystal projected for this month, a few months ago.  That doesn’t mean they can stay where they’re at long-term, but they’re likely exactly where they projected to be at this point given the headwinds they have and the extremely short launch runway.  
 

IMHO, next summer is going to be make-or-break for Crystal, and that’s still an extremely short time for them to get up to speed, as travel suppliers go.  They don’t end to be profitable in 2024 (that would be historic among new suppliers), but they need to start to be viable by then at least.

 

Vince

[Stickman1990]

11 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

but they’re likely exactly where they projected to be at this point given the headwinds they have and the extremely short launch runway.  

Let’s keep things in perspective - that is exactly 100% conjecture and opinion  - I’m not sure what basis there is for it 

[Texas Tillie]

42 minutes ago, Stickman1990 said:

Let’s keep things in perspective - that is exactly 100% conjecture and opinion  - I’m not sure what basis there is for it 

 

Based on his posts here over the years, Vince seems to understand more about the travel industry than the rest of us put together.

 

Patty

[PaulMCO]

1 hour ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Based on his posts here over the years, Vince seems to understand more about the travel industry than the rest of us put together.

 

Patty

Now now -- but I highly doubt they would predict only 200 people on a major cruise segment.

 

I agree that 2024 Med season would be good indicator on their ability to attract back their clients.  Many people have already fully booked their 2023 season before a relaunch and some have done the same for 2024.

 

Looking at their new competitors, like Explora -- they are equally having troubles filling their ships.  Explora is doing more to entertain and attract business with Travel Partners than Crystal is.

[Keith1010]

47 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

Now now -- but I highly doubt they would predict only 200 people on a major cruise segment.

 

I agree that 2024 Med season would be good indicator on their ability to attract back their clients.  Many people have already fully booked their 2023 season before a relaunch and some have done the same for 2024.

 

Looking at their new competitors, like Explora -- they are equally having troubles filling their ships.  Explora is doing more to entertain and attract business with Travel Partners than Crystal is.

I can't speak to "more" but do know that Crystal has been doing quite a bit with the major travel consortium's, not only before the first sailings of each ship but also as we speak.

 

Keith

[Keith1010]

2 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Based on his posts here over the years, Vince seems to understand more about the travel industry than the rest of us put together.

 

Patty

I agree with Patty and it is not not conjecture nor opinion as some of us know for sure. 

 

This was all recognized as part of the plans.  And I am sure someone will ask how do I know. So it goes.

 

Keith

[BWIVince]

4 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

Let’s keep things in perspective - that is exactly 100% conjecture and opinion  - I’m not sure what basis there is for it 

I said “likely” because I know the range an experienced sales team would forecast in this scenario, from decades of experience.  None of the sales team at Crystal are new to this, and many of them have the same kind of experience I do.  I can’t speak to the numbers they’re working with or their actual forecasts, but I know full well the methodology, and that’s exactly what I cited.

 

Vince

Edited October 11, 2023 by BWIVince

[kool kruiser]

Although I have no industry experience whatever and fully understand why 2023 summer sailings may be challenging, I personally think that forward pricing may be relevant to capacities. In the luxury cruise segment, as well as others, older ships seem to be regularly replaced with larger capacity ships, together with fleet expansions. Explora has been referenced and I believe that one factor behind their difficulties may be the whopping fare increases imposed since launch. The market is finite and for sustainable loadings to be achieved, pricing may need to be a tad more competitive. Just a non-professional's thoughts...

[PaulMCO]

3 minutes ago, kool kruiser said:

Although I have no industry experience whatever and fully understand why 2023 summer sailings may be challenging, I personally think that forward pricing may be relevant to capacities. In the luxury cruise segment, as well as others, older ships seem to be regularly replaced with larger capacity ships, together with fleet expansions. Explora has been referenced and I believe that one factor behind their difficulties may be the whopping fare increases imposed since launch. The market is finite and for sustainable loadings to be achieved, pricing may need to be a tad more competitive. Just a non-professional's thoughts...

Our 2023 Xmas holiday prices on Explora -- after the hike is competitive with Crystal.  They just started at a low point when they did not even have a ship built to drum up excitement and an initial cadre of passengers. 

 

Think Crystal needs to look and their competitiveness in the market,  as we looked at 2025 pricing for 21 day cruises in the Med, among SS, Crystal, and Seabourn.  Unfortunately Crystal was highest followed by SS with Seabourn significantly cheaper and the Seabourn itinerary had significantly less run of the mill ports.  Crystal was not competitive at this stage -- whether they have sales later on to encourage more bookings is TBD.

 

Could not even consider Explora because they have decided that 7 day cruises are best and they go back and forth on same routes rather than being able to string 7 dayers into a 21 day.

 

[travelberlin]

3 hours ago, PaulMCO said:

Now now -- but I highly doubt they would predict only 200 people on a major cruise segment.

 

I agree that 2024 Med season would be good indicator on their ability to attract back their clients.  Many people have already fully booked their 2023 season before a relaunch and some have done the same for 2024.

 

Looking at their new competitors, like Explora -- they are equally having troubles filling their ships.  Explora is doing more to entertain and attract business with Travel Partners than Crystal is.

I agree with most of what you have said. However Explora has done a lot to disappoint future guests like me. I was very excited to sail with Explora but cruise cancellations, unreliability and shorter itineraries have made me move on.

On the other hand, the new Crystal has done something that has impressed me. This is the Crystal initiative. From what I see, this was a very nice move to attract again Crystal cruisers which were so dissatisfied like I was. So the new Crystal has now my trust and my money for future bookings 😊. As long as there are no cancellations and unreliability, I will keep booking with NC.

 

Ivi

 

 

[tnm6217]

11 hours ago, c.c. cheeseball said:

There were no other fully wait-listed cruises that I could see today. This one, just before the holiday cruise, is only one category (Sapphire) away:

 

https://crystalcruises.com/cruises/none-cse-011-231102

 

I am on this sailing and I'm very glad to see it full! The thought of being on a ship with sufficient space to hold 1200+ passengers (initially), renovated to hold no more than 740, but carrying even less than that did not spark joy. I certainly don't want to feel like I'm in a cattle car on a cruise, but I've done the "ghost ship" experience before (Ponant ocean voyage) and it got really old very quickly. As a solo traveler, I don't want to sit in an empty lounge or have dinner in a quiet, mostly empty restaurant. I am very hopeful my sailing next month will be somewhere close to capacity!

[PaulMCO]

3 hours ago, travelberlin said:

I agree with most of what you have said. However Explora has done a lot to disappoint future guests like me. I was very excited to sail with Explora but cruise cancellations, unreliability and shorter itineraries have made me move on.

On the other hand, the new Crystal has done something that has impressed me. This is the Crystal initiative. From what I see, this was a very nice move to attract again Crystal cruisers which were so dissatisfied like I was. So the new Crystal has now my trust and my money for future bookings 😊. As long as there are no cancellations and unreliability, I will keep booking with NC.

 

Ivi

 

 

I certainly agree with what you are saying about Explora.  First they cancel their Alaska sailing to focus on South America and Caribbean, then cancel South America.  Then they cancel their Africa (Explora 2) cruises and Move the ship to the Caribbean. Then cancel the Caribbean for Explora 1 and move it to the Med.    Nothing good comes with that.

 

 

[Occasional Duck]

What's a load factor?

[mkbruce]

Load factor is the number of guests on board vs the capacity of the ship. It’s basically an indicator of demand.

[vistaman]

unfortunately new C also did announce that special for past guests involved in the bankrucy rather late 

if that was announced sooner I never  had booked that disastrous Explora - all the more the person presenting Explora to me was a past Crystal ... very aware that F&B operations are very important for me.  the top of luxury was promissed  - a failure followed

I wished many times  - during my Explora cruise -  I was not in a premier penthouse on E but on a modest cabin on new C !! 

[saminina]

Looking forward to boarding Serenity during February.  Currently parked next to it in Boston.  After two nights on Explora, I fear that Crystal has a tough road ahead.  Ship is amazing, service over the top as it should be with about 300 passengers on board.  Dining options and presentation tops anything I've seen at sea.   A bankroll that is larger than any competitor.   Only self inflicted cuts will keep Explora from being in top spot within ten years.  Assuming design changes are in place for future builds.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by saminina

[History&Wine]

A couple of interesting posts above.....

[travelberlin]

5 hours ago, saminina said:

Looking forward to boarding Serenity during February.  Currently parked next to it in Boston.  After two nights on Explora, I fear that Crystal has a tough road ahead.  Ship is amazing, service over the top as it should be with about 300 passengers on board.  Dining options and presentation tops anything I've seen at sea.   A bankroll that is larger than any competitor.   Only self inflicted cuts will keep Explora from being in top spot within ten years.  Assuming design changes are in place for future builds.

 

 

Time will tell…

Ivi

[KenzSailing]

9 hours ago, saminina said:

Looking forward to boarding Serenity during February.  Currently parked next to it in Boston.  After two nights on Explora, I fear that Crystal has a tough road ahead.  Ship is amazing, service over the top as it should be with about 300 passengers on board.  Dining options and presentation tops anything I've seen at sea.   A bankroll that is larger than any competitor.   Only self inflicted cuts will keep Explora from being in top spot within ten years.  Assuming design changes are in place for future builds.

 

 

 

The Explora reviews have not been anywhere near unanimous in such praise. (This is an understatement.)

[Stickman1990]

1 minute ago, KenzSailing said:

 

The Explora reviews have not been anywhere near unanimous in such praise. (This is an understatement.)

No I think it’s a gross overstatement actually - the vast majority of the many people I’ve spoken with who have actually sailed on Explora have been very impressed and that includes many with substantial experience on Crystal

 

Certainly we found it excellent and the group we were travelling with did also. Friends onboard at the moment are providing similar positive feedback 

 

As we see on these forums every day there are those who find things to complain about everywhere 

 

Try it - you might like it - particularly if dining is important to you 

[Keith1010]

Rather I think what we see on this and the other cruise boards is that we all see, experience and view things as we see them and that is not always the same. 

 

Go to other sites to read  reviews whether they are about hotels, restaurants or a wide range of products and how they rate them is certainly not the same for everyone.

 

And this is why choice is good.

 

Keith

[Ant@sea]

16 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

No I think it’s a gross overstatement actually - the vast majority of the many people I’ve spoken with who have actually sailed on Explora have been very impressed and that includes many with substantial experience on Crystal

 

Certainly we found it excellent and the group we were travelling with did also. Friends onboard at the moment are providing similar positive feedback 

 

As we see on these forums every day there are those who find things to complain about everywhere 

 

Try it - you might like it - particularly if dining is important to you 

My takeaway from the Explora forum is that everything is fine until it’s not, and then, the staff onboard is not empowered to fix an issue without orders from Geneva, and I find that troubling. On Crystal, the staff is trained and trusted by headquarters. To me, the software is more important than the hardware.