Huge downturn in CC reviewer scores (this one's for the nerds)

[hankandteri]

1 minute ago, Markanddonna said:

I did a nerdy analysis of the MSC Divina and their ratings in the last year have dropped a full point. 

Wow! Just wow! MSC overall (entire fleet, not just Divina) is already quite a bit lower than the other mass market lines, so for one of their ships to drop an entire point in a year is quite the accomplishment. 
 

I keep reading about how nice the YC is and how beautiful MSC ships are, but also how crowded they are and how the food and service aboard can be less than stellar, to put it kindly. 
 

I’m a self described numbers nerd but I’m the kind who likes to “find out for myself” and test the numbers and comments against reality.  MSC is the one line I haven’t sailed and wouldn’t consider right now based strictly on reviewer comments and scores. 

[hcat]

13 minutes ago, hankandteri said:

This thread kind of took on a life of its own, so I can’t blame you for not wanting to wade through all all of it. After others asked, I also did the same calculation for three other lines (Carnival, HAL and Virgin) to see if that recent dip in CC reviewer rating was impacting all cruise lines. 

Carnival recent review scores also dropped from their historic average, nearly as much as Celebrity’s did. HAL reviews were essentially flat. Virgin’s recent reviewer scores were up significantly over their already high benchmark rating. 

 

Virgin may have high marks but after going through a few Virgin threads on CC  (with photos), we know it definitely is not for us. 

 

We also know Carnival is not for us based on  past reviews,  being in ports with Carnival ships and their clientele, and  what folks say takes place in the dining hall!

 

That's why just going by ratings and numbers are not the best guides. Just snapshots in time...

[hcat]

no idea why my post is being reviewed??

[hankandteri]

I tried to like your post, but got an automated message that I couldn’t interact with it. I couldn’t find an objectionable word phrase or thought in it. 

[hcat]

it has now been approved!

btw..my husb is a spreadsheet numbers  nerd but does read CC!

[Markanddonna]

1 hour ago, hankandteri said:

Wow! Just wow! MSC overall (entire fleet, not just Divina) is already quite a bit lower than the other mass market lines, so for one of their ships to drop an entire point in a year is quite the accomplishment. 
 

 

I have been on about 8 MSC cruises. I was on the Divina around 2018 and thought it was a great ship.  After a horrible B2B on the DIvina in 2023, I believe it is fully deserving of at LEAST a full point drop. The crew was so unhappy, the ship was WAY oversold to primarily central and south American passengers, and there were fights onboard. Probably the rudest, most angry passengers I have ever witnessed. The food was blah. I couldn't give it zero stars, so it had to be given a one star. I believe it would have been a five star back in 2018.

 

Since the vast majority of passengers are not in the Yacht Club, a prospective passenger has to keep that in mind. I have heard that even the YC has gone downhill. To be honest, I think our cruise was the absolute worst sailing the Divina has ever experienced. People were traumatized. 

[The Fun Researcher]

1 hour ago, Markanddonna said:

I have been on about 8 MSC cruises. I was on the Divina around 2018 and thought it was a great ship.  After a horrible B2B on the DIvina in 2023, I believe it is fully deserving of at LEAST a full point drop. The crew was so unhappy, the ship was WAY oversold to primarily central and south American passengers, and there were fights onboard. Probably the rudest, most angry passengers I have ever witnessed. The food was blah. I couldn't give it zero stars, so it had to be given a one star. I believe it would have been a five star back in 2018.

 

Since the vast majority of passengers are not in the Yacht Club, a prospective passenger has to keep that in mind. I have heard that even the YC has gone downhill. To be honest, I think our cruise was the absolute worst sailing the Divina has ever experienced. People were traumatized. 

Speaking of which, the whole ship within a ship concept that NCL and MSC (and to a certain level Celebrity). have with their dedicated spaces, really takes away from the overall enjoyment of a ship and drops it’s subsequent rating in my opinion. It carves out too much of the ship that general passengers are unable to access.
 

If you want that upscale service, in my opinion, go with a true luxury line. 
 

This is one thing that I think royal Caribbean excels at. Their ship design and layout is second to none in my opinion, and they don’t carve out huge spaces for dedicated guests, at least not yet.  Everyone has access to almost the entire ship.

Edited October 13, 2023 by The Fun Researcher

[Lastdance]

At the end of the day, it all comes down to you and your personal experience.  It is not a statistic, but a feeling based on a multitude of onboard experiences and memories made.  Does the positive overwhelm the negative?  That is for you to decide, and you alone.  Safe travels!

[JLvacation]

1 hour ago, The Fun Researcher said:

Speaking of which, the whole ship within a ship concept that NCL and MSC (and to a certain level Celebrity). have with their dedicated spaces, really takes away from the overall enjoyment of a ship and drops it’s subsequent rating in my opinion. It carves out too much of the ship that general passengers are unable to access.
 

If you want that upscale service, in my opinion, go with a true luxury line. 
 

This is one thing that I think royal Caribbean excels at. Their ship design and layout is second to none in my opinion, and they don’t carve out huge spaces for dedicated guests, at least not yet.  Everyone has access to almost the entire ship.

    Not to sound like We are snob's when it comes to Cruising . However  RCCL doing away with what used to be the Viking Lounge / And stuck Coastal Kitchen or Another Specialty Restaurant and the Suite Lounge with a view there in it's Place . An putting what their now calling the Crown Lounge down on Deck Four with a Virtual Wall in it was a Disappointment ~ Same can be said for the Quantum Class / Putting what they call the Concierge Club with a View ,, and again the Crown Lounge down on Deck Four ! ~ To some individuals . They'll never know the difference . 

Only because they've never experienced it , However We / I have , an We do recognize the differences . 

Sane could be said for the Stateroom Attendants only cleaning your room once a day . Where as it used to be twice a day . 

 

These changes may not seem like much , Yet the price for a Cruise hasn't gone down ! 

Yet Standards an Qualities have across the entire fleet . 

 

I'll stop there . 

 

Sincerely ~ JLvacation 

[hcat]

our last Royal C cruise was on Oasis.  no reason to return!

[Jim_Iain]

I rarely post on threads like this but felt compelled to after reading both the negative and positive posts here.

 

Like others I would have to agree that taking such a statistically small sampling and make broad assumptions about it is not reflective of the general experience others may experience.   I will preface this with the fact that I recently booked my first Non-Celebrity Cruise in 21 years and have booked another.

 

First it is normal, that more people take the time to post a negative review when fired up than the majority of cruisers (including myself) who have never posted a review either negative or positive.

 

Second and probably more important is that it is not just Celebrity or the cruise industry but prices, service and selection has been negatively impacted by Covid, supply chain issues and inflation.  Just look at Airline Rates, Service, Performance and Customer Satisfaction.   McDonalds, Hotels and Starbucks have seen prices increases that are astronomical. 

 

Finally, one should roam around the boards like I have been recently.    I've been reading the same complaints on cruise lines like Cunard, Silverseas and Azamara.  

 

Basically we have decided that we will no longer be dedicated to a single cruise line and will be booking future cruises based on pricing, service and probably more important to us itinerary. 

[budmeister]

2 hours ago, JLvacation said:

    Not to sound like We are snob's when it comes to Cruising . However  RCCL doing away with what used to be the Viking Lounge / And stuck Coastal Kitchen or Another Specialty Restaurant and the Suite Lounge with a view there in it's Place . An putting what their now calling the Crown Lounge down on Deck Four with a Virtual Wall in it was a Disappointment ~ Same can be said for the Quantum Class / Putting what they call the Concierge Club with a View ,, and again the Crown Lounge down on Deck Four ! ~ To some individuals . They'll never know the difference . 

Only because they've never experienced it , However We / I have , an We do recognize the differences . 

Sane could be said for the Stateroom Attendants only cleaning your room once a day . Where as it used to be twice a day . 

 

These changes may not seem like much , Yet the price for a Cruise hasn't gone down ! 

Yet Standards an Qualities have across the entire fleet . 

 

I'll stop there . 

 

Sincerely ~ JLvacation 

Sad. The Viking lounge is my favorite place on the ship. I am an indoor or balcony cruiser.

[hawkesbaynz]

@Jim_Iain you can only sail on other lines if you inform your multitude of followers. Would miss those door pictures😀! However your views of alternative lines would be appreciated. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

2 hours ago, Jim_Iain said:

I rarely post on threads like this but felt compelled to after reading both the negative and positive posts here.

 

Like others I would have to agree that taking such a statistically small sampling and make broad assumptions about it is not reflective of the general experience others may experience.   I will preface this with the fact that I recently booked my first Non-Celebrity Cruise in 21 years and have booked another.

 

First it is normal, that more people take the time to post a negative review when fired up than the majority of cruisers (including myself) who have never posted a review either negative or positive.

 

Second and probably more important is that it is not just Celebrity or the cruise industry but prices, service and selection has been negatively impacted by Covid, supply chain issues and inflation.  Just look at Airline Rates, Service, Performance and Customer Satisfaction.   McDonalds, Hotels and Starbucks have seen prices increases that are astronomical. 

 

Finally, one should roam around the boards like I have been recently.    I've been reading the same complaints on cruise lines like Cunard, Silverseas and Azamara.  

 

Basically we have decided that we will no longer be dedicated to a single cruise line and will be booking future cruises based on pricing, service and probably more important to us itinerary. 

 

With what I highlighted, I agree with you on-premise yet many corporations are abusing the inflation excuse.  First, we need to identify the rate of inflation and various websites point out that the TOTAL from 2020 to now/2023 is just a tick under 15%; this is just a baseline guide, nothing more and of course, there are expectations in some industries.  X's fares for example have increased way above the rate of inflation all while decreasing the service and product.  However, I can still go to McDonalds and get two double cheeseburgers for about $4 or (what I often get) a large coffee for $.99 by using that app offer.  I personally don't see a ton of increases in airfare compared to late 2019-early 2020 but do see massive, at times mindblowing, increases in hotels.  I made top Hilton status last year and this year it appears I won't make the lowest status because often Airbnbs have favorable offerings at less than half the cost or more due to free parking if the hotel charges high parking rates

[Whinenowine]

12 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

With what I highlighted, I agree with you on-premise yet many corporations are abusing the inflation excuse.  First, we need to identify the rate of inflation and various websites point out that the TOTAL from 2020 to now/2023 is just a tick under 15%; this is just a baseline guide, nothing more and of course, there are expectations in some industries.  X's fares for example have increased way above the rate of inflation all while decreasing the service and product.  However, I can still go to McDonalds and get two double cheeseburgers for about $4 or (what I often get) a large coffee for $.99 by using that app offer.  I personally don't see a ton of increases in airfare compared to late 2019-early 2020 but do see massive, at times mindblowing, increases in hotels.  I made top Hilton status last year and this year it appears I won't make the lowest status because often Airbnbs have favorable offerings at less than half the cost or more due to free parking if the hotel charges high parking rates

I wonder what happens when Revenge Travel is over.  I'm guilty of paying higher prices over the last year after having put off a few trips since 2020.  But prices now are so high that I cannot in good conscience pay them.  So I'll pause for now and see what 2024 brings.  Luckily I've a ton of airline, hotel and AMEX points accumulated that have come in handy this year.

[NMTraveller]

With Celebrity adding items back in to the MDR menu I wonder what the scores will be in another 3 months.  I would expect them to go back up some...

[The Fun Researcher]

20 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

With Celebrity adding items back in to the MDR menu I wonder what the scores will be in another 3 months.  I would expect them to go back up some...

Sailing on the Equinox in December.  Do you have a link to a thread or informative detailing what’s been added back?  Thanks

[NMTraveller]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Researcher said:

Sailing on the Equinox in December.  Do you have a link to a thread or informative detailing what’s been added back?  Thanks

Just go to the Celebrity app and look at the menus for each day of your cruise.  We are on the Millie in December.  If they are not there yet I would expect to see them added shortly...

Edited October 14, 2023 by NMTraveller

[goofysmom99]

I'm also following the current daily MDR menu on Constellation and so far, no changes.  I am encouraged by the positive reports about OVC offerings so even if the changes don't arrive by my sailing in three weeks, I'll survive splitting my evening meals between Tuscan and OVC. 

[Jim_Iain]

17 hours ago, hawkesbaynz said:

@Jim_Iain you can only sail on other lines if you inform your multitude of followers. Would miss those door pictures😀! However your views of alternative lines would be appreciated. 

Thanks much.   I feel like Celebrity is home and hopefully things will improve.   I've been reading on "that other site" that Laura Hodges Bethge and her executive staff have been aboard one of the ships and have been dining in the MDR and met with Zenith Members for Lunch and discussion.  They have also been shadowing various staff and even working in al Bacio.    Hopefully they are listening and recent posts here have indicated they are bringing back some of the MDR Menu items and axing Tilapia.    Will have to wait and see if any further changes  take or place or the new ones go away again.

 

I will indeed direct to my Lives and will probably do what I did on Ponant.   Post a comparison on Celebrity while also posting on Ponant.   The Ponant board was so small I felt uncomfortable monopolizing their board as most live post only have a hand full of followers.

 

I'm somewhat surprised that Cunard is also very lightly followed.   It may be that while there are many US and UK members many Europeans do not follow Cruise Critics.

[mac_tlc]

1 hour ago, Jim_Iain said:

Thanks much.   I feel like Celebrity is home and hopefully things will improve.   I've been reading on "that other site" that Laura Hodges Bethge and her executive staff have been aboard one of the ships and have been dining in the MDR and met with Zenith Members for Lunch and discussion.  They have also been shadowing various staff and even working in al Bacio.    Hopefully they are listening and recent posts here have indicated they are bringing back some of the MDR Menu items and axing Tilapia.    Will have to wait and see if any further changes  take or place or the new ones go away again.

 

I will indeed direct to my Lives and will probably do what I did on Ponant.   Post a comparison on Celebrity while also posting on Ponant.   The Ponant board was so small I felt uncomfortable monopolizing their board as most live post only have a hand full of followers.

 

I'm somewhat surprised that Cunard is also very lightly followed.   It may be that while there are many US and UK members many Europeans do not follow Cruise Critics.

We have also booked our first (three actually) non-Celebrity/non-Royal cruises in about 20 years. At the end of the day the overriding factor was pricing of suites. Of course its exacerbated by the cuts in quality and service. We have finally reached a point in our lives (somewhere on the back 9) where we appreciate the larger room and amenities.

 

I have been perusing the HAL, Oceania, MSC, Viking, Silversea, and Seabourne boards and while there are certainly complaints, they didn't seem to compare in number and volume to the X complaints. 

 

We always enjoy your LIVE's and look forward to future ones where we get to compare products. 

 

mac_tlc