Muse Q&A with the Silversea Heirarchy.

[drron29]

So this afternoon we had a Q&A session with Barbara Muckermann and 6 other Execs including Mark Conroy and the managers in Australia and South Africa. The global expert advisory committee was also on board.

It began with BM giving a 20 minute talk about the past, present and future Silversea plans.

 

Future plans. Silver Ray to Begin cruising June 2024.

An option for 2 further Nova class vessels. Decision to be made in the near future.

 

Ships that may leave the fleet. Wind, Cloud and Whisper. New environmental regulations due in the next year or so. Will be hard for these 3 ships to comply but hopeful they will remain until 2030/32.

 

River cruising. Not happening but there is a business plan which will be reactivated if conditions change.

 

There were some general questions which were a waste such as when will Silversea return to St. Petersburg. Reiterated that Russia, the Black sea and the Eastern Mediterranean are no go areas at present.

 

Silversea Air. As expected the answer for current problems is really due to lack of capacity and airlines raising prices especially in Business class. However an important decision made in the last 2 weeks. Silversea Air has been incorporated into the RCCL system which will mean more clout over the airlines plus a much better automated system for bookings. Explained that airlines require that bookings for 25 or more pax must be made 12 months out but then airlines change the flights.

Silversea hotels. Pre Covid SS had an allocation of rooms from their preferred hotels at least 12 months out. Since Covid hotels could get a better price from walk in guests so cut the SS allocations. A particular problem was Iceland where they lost all their pre allocated rooms.

 

Restaurant bookings. Apparently the system was that only 50% of seats could be booked before boarding and the rest saved for on board reservations. Many said it was not working particularly with Silver Note. She will look into it.

 

Food. Was said that food costs have gone up 30% but they have received extra funding to cover that and there will be no reduction in the level of food. So I gave her the situation that on the last segment the lobster serve was a whole tail but on this sector was half a tail. She gave an unconvincing answer that a container was missing in Hong Kong. Others came up with other examples.

 

Staff. most of us still feel one of the major reasons for returning is the crew. There are more instances of less than stellar service but there have been problems. Initially on post covid start up a lot of the Fillipino staff could not get visas to leave. nor could the Indian butlers. They have hired 1500 new staff who have had to learn on the job whereas pre covid they would receive some training before boarding. They are now up to full manning levels so hopefully things improve from here.

 

I may have missed or forgooten some things so feel free to ask.

[TLCOhio]

10 minutes ago, drron29 said:

So this afternoon we had a Q&A session with Barbara Muckermann and 6 other Execs including Mark Conroy and the managers in Australia and South Africa. Reiterated that Russia, the Black sea and the Eastern Mediterranean are no go areas at present.

 

Super appreciate this great reporting and summary by Dr. Ron.  This was a wide-ranging discussion that covered an interesting range of issues and topics.  As we are scheduled for a February 2024 Silver Moon, Mumbai to Singapore, sailing, the questions for cruise ships to navigate down the Suez Canal and do stop in Jordan, Egypt, etc., are of strong interest. 

 

Many challenges for the cruise lines, including about their staffing, getting new people properly trained/skilled, etc.  Also found fascinating the details about "food costs have gone up 30% but they have received extra funding".

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

[Damaris1900]

Very interesting, thank you for posting this.

 

We booked a cruise on Whisper for 2025 and were happy to hear that she's going into dry dock next year.  How likely is that to still happen if SS management thinks that new environmental standards are going to render the Whisper obsolete soon?  Any indications one way or the other?

[labrasett]

10 minutes ago, Damaris1900 said:

Very interesting, thank you for posting this.

 

We booked a cruise on Whisper for 2025 and were happy to hear that she's going into dry dock next year.  How likely is that to still happen if SS management thinks that new environmental standards are going to render the Whisper obsolete soon?  Any indications one way or the other?

Re read what has been said, the Whisper (and others) will probably stay in service until 2030 or 2032.  The Whisper has no scheduled cruises during April next year.   Current passengers say she is still lovely, shabby chic is perhaps a good description.   I am looking forward to sailing on her very soon.

[drron29]

Yes the whisper will still be sailing for the rest of the 20s.

Have remembered a couple of more things.

Muse TVs. They are well aware of the problems and funding has been approved for the TV in the mirrors to be removed and go back to a regular TV unit. Not known when it will happen.

There was another problem with the TVs fleet wide. The switching on of Starlink caused some interference problems. Have finally worked out a fix to be carried out on all ships with the Muse last for the reason above.

 

Which brings us to Starlink and the problems that have been reported. The blame is the US Defence department. In all hot areas where they want more satellite intelligence gathered they can and do turn off Starlink satellites so that Russia, North Korea, and China plus now the Middle East.

This fits with my observations so far on this cruise. Service was very good around Japan. Slowed down markedly when we got to Korea and has come good since we arrived in Vietnam.

[Mayflower1]

Thank you Drron29 for your Report on the Q&A.

Barbaras responses are generally at the level i would expect - hopefully she will take the general mood away and some improvement in the areas of concern will be evident.

it seems clear that your fellow Guests showed that these are not isolated niggles and The Board would be wise to take note in this very competitive Market Place.

[Tothesunset]

2 hours ago, drron29 said:

So this afternoon we had a Q&A session with Barbara Muckermann and 6 other Execs including Mark Conroy and the managers in Australia and South Africa. The global expert advisory committee was also on board.

It began with BM giving a 20 minute talk about the past, present and future Silversea plans.

 

Future plans. Silver Ray to Begin cruising June 2024.

An option for 2 further Nova class vessels. Decision to be made in the near future.

 

And that is the end of Silversea as we know it. Just another flashy, larger ship line with nothing special to offer. No soul. 

[tgh]

No soul..

Soul is not a commercially viable product in the cruise market.
The old Silversea could not survive; the new SS is arguably sharper, much much shallower and commercially viable.

There are clearly more than sufficient customers for the current product at the current price point.

In my mind I  have "let go" of the old SS ;  I may cruise again on the new SS but will understand exactly what my buck is buying….

[datone]

15 hours ago, drron29 said:

Muse TVs. They are well aware of the problems and funding has been approved for the TV in the mirrors to be removed and go back to a regular TV unit. 

We are on the Muse in December.   Are you able to let me know what is the issue with the TV's?  Thank you.

[rojaan19]

10 minutes ago, datone said:

We are on the Muse in December.   Are you able to let me know what is the issue with the TV's?  Thank you.

We are on deck 9,  and can  hear the TV in the suite next door when it is on.  Currently the people in there have the TV on if they are in there  !!   Lucky I brought ear plugs with me !!

[drron29]

Plus the control of the TV in the mirror is often very slow and difficult. 

[david63]

17 hours ago, Damaris1900 said:

 happy to hear that she's going into dry dock next year.  How likely is that to still happen

100% as it will be her mandatory check and service.

[Mayflower1]

I feel that tgh has a very valid viewpoint and those of us who have been regular Silversea Guests since the 1990s now need to adopt a change of mindset - regrettably the present hieracy seem hellbent on increasing the tonnage at the expense of quality.

 

I totally agree that todays Commercialism is very different and we are not the new Target Market. However Silversea are now adopting a Pricing Policy that puts it squarely in competition with a number of other Lines and without any noticeable edge in Service, Food, Entertainment or Itinerary there is much more choice. Historically the Silversea Crew have been a very strong Factor in choice but Post Covid I feel this is less of an Issue.

 

Many of us have had such good times on Silversea the ' Returning to Our Family at Sea ' held strong but I personally now feel that is over and we have to be realistic in not trying to recapture what was.

[markham]

Mayflower1,

Another way of looking at this is that our world of today is inevitably different than yesterday, whether it is last month, year, or that first, second or third cruise- on any line.

 

About Silversea specifically, they lead the quality luxury cruising segment now, IMO, across the board, and they have somehow done well enough plus to avoid the depressing lapses in so many basic we experiencec at Seabourn early this year. We just cannot reconcile them with the Seabourn of 3 years ago, much less 5, 10 or 15 years ago. I recall when the Odyssey, Sojourn and Quest were brought out in the 2010-3 era they were far superior for our tastes than Whisper- better facilities and more spacious generally, and of course new (which is better than tired or just homely), all IMO. Then Muse, Moon and Dawn emerged with better differentiated dining options (albeit with an obviously smaller entertainment budget than a Seabourn ship eg no sailaway parties with a live band and a bit of dancing with poolside hors d’œuvres etc), and we were conflicted. We had had great experiences on both lines! Now we are so disappointed in Seabourn and their now “old style” ships we have most of our future classic cruises on Dawn and Nova. (Seabourn gets our bookings on their wonderful expedition ships Venture and Pursuit.)

 

The bottom line is we have high expectations, are forward looking but practical and fair, but always it’s the consistency thing that counts. Barbara Muckermann explains that Royal Caribbean is a supportive partner. I have never heard anyone at Seabourn claim the same from Carnival.

 

So much for my 2 cents.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

 

[Mayflower1]

It is interesting Markham to hear your views on Silversea against those of Seabourn ( a Line we have experienced and enjoyed but never quite as much as Silversea ).

 

I hope you are right concerning the support of RCL in maintaining Silversea as a distinct Brand but it appears that it is the delivery of consistency that seems to be the very Issue that is the problem at the moment in a number of areas.

 

I also wish you continued good sailing and hopefully we will both have many happy Cruises ahead.

 

 

[drron29]

Nothing in Tourism is the same as that before the pandemic. Airlines have been a mess. So I really don't think the changes we have seen at SS are a sign the sky is falling. It was interesting that B M stated during her talk that their targeted demographic were Boomers. That obviously will change. The younger generations are not going to have the same values as us Boomers. There has always been generational change. This year we have certainly noticed it with the average age falling and more children.

 

For us it mainly has been the friendships we have made with staff and fellow cruisers. However we really appreciate the greater diversity in the crew, We have met crew from virtually every country. Great to see a much larger African crew number. Most of the new crew are from hospitality backgrounds. Nearly all report a positive experience on Silversea.

 

Yes we miss the old days but for us they were on the Explorer. People now want more luxury. As well advancing age and health issues mean we couldn't do those cruises now.

 

That doesn't mean we will accept every change and if there is something we don't like we will and have complained. We have always had feedback on our concerns. Probably because we make our complaints whilst still aboard.

 

In the end our Silversea journey will continue.

[TLCOhio]

2 hours ago, markham said:

The bottom line is we have high expectations, are forward looking but practical and fair, but always it’s the consistency thing that counts. Barbara Muckermann explains that Royal Caribbean is a supportive partner. I have never heard anyone at Seabourn claim the same from Carnival.

 

Appreciate this excellent perspective and follow-up about the value and importance of the "corporate partner".  With the billions and billions of borrowed/owed dollars that needs to be repaid from the Covid challenges, those "relationships" are part of the "realities" facing Silversea Seabourn, etc.  Without the deeper pockets of Royal Caribbean, I do not think an independent Silversea could have survived and/or maintain reasonable quality. 

 

Agree with Mayflower1 as to the "delivery of consistency" being important. 

 

As to the Muse TV issues, how are the televisions arranged on the newer Silver Moon.  On the Moon, are the TV's a part of the mirror or not?  Just curious for our upcoming Silver Moon, February 2024 Mumbai to Singapore sailing. 

 

Wise point by Dr. Ron as to "Nothing in Tourism is the same as that before the pandemic."

THANKS for this helpful thread!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

[CruzinFeraBruzin]

21 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

how are the televisions arranged on the newer Silver Moon.  On the Moon, are the TV's a part of the mirror or not?

Terry, the TV's on both the Moon and Dawn are mounted directly to the wall above the bar area.  They are not incorporated into the mirror.  We did hear the TV from the suite next to us once while on the Moon, but it was in no way similar to the experience of those on the Muse.  

[crusinbanjo]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:33 PM, Tothesunset said:

And that is the end of Silversea as we know it. Just another flashy, larger ship line with nothing special to offer. No soul. 

That was exactly what I said to Mrs Banjo as we were sitting in the Venetian lounge, waiting for our luggage tag color to be called so we could disembark. Just like all the other big cruise ships, out of the cabin early, sit around waiting to be allowed to leave…… and that’s just one reason why we love the small ships.

Edited October 30, 2023 by crusinbanjo

[FlyerTalker]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:40 PM, tgh said:

No soul..

Soul is not a commercially viable product in the cruise market.
The old Silversea could not survive; the new SS is arguably sharper, much much shallower and commercially viable.

 

 

Interesting choice of words.

 

 

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, CruzinFeraBruzin said:

Terry, the TV's on both the Moon and Dawn are mounted directly to the wall above the bar area.  They are not incorporated into the mirror.  We did hear the TV from the suite next to us once while on the Moon, but it was in no way similar to the experience of those on the Muse.  

 

Appreciate this great follow-up from our friend in Texas as to the TV's in the Silver Moon and Dawn.  Good news!! 

 

Interesting discussion about whether Silversea still has "soul", whatever that word exactly means for a business operations.  Clearly "things" are not the same as in the "good old days".  Lots has changed.  But, I can remember back to July 2010 for our first SS cruise on the Silver Cloud.  Had to tangle while on-board with the unbending "bean counters" in Monaco over a financial issue.  Even years ago, certain folks with Silversea did not always have the best and perfect "customer-focus". 

 

Now??  There are challenges, especially with so many new staff members as Silversea expands, adds more new and larger ships, has significant training/turn-over issues, etc. 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

[highplanesdrifters]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:57 PM, drron29 said:

Ships that may leave the fleet. Wind, Cloud

Just wondering if there are any plans to replace the Expedition ships.  Thanks for the great report. 

[cruiseej]

12 hours ago, highplanesdrifters said:

Just wondering if there are any plans to replace the Expedition ships.  Thanks for the great report. 

 

If they see those ships reaching their end of life in the 2030-2032 time frame, it's logical to assume they will have new expedition ship(s) to replace them. A lot of other cruise lines have been building small expedition ships; it's just a question of having the capital to build them and to price the cruises at a level they can fill them. It's probably a set of decisions that are still a few years off. 

 

That assumes the Arctic, Greenland and Antarctica haven't melted by 2030! 🤣

Edited October 31, 2023 by cruiseej

[FlyerTalker]

2 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

it's just a question of having the capital to build them and to price the cruises at a level they can fill them.

 

Au contraire.

 

It's not about "filling" the ship.  It's about maximizing revenue, which is not the same thing.

 

Any cruiseline can fill a ship if they price the cruise cheap enough.  It's a matter of finding what price point yields the biggest revenue -- a 2/3 full ship can easily be a better money maker than a full ship at a lower price point.

 

Plus, one has to look at the overall effect of pricing on revenue returns for the entire operation, not just particular sailings.

 

 

[cruiseej]

@FlyerTalker I understand your points, but you took it in a different direction than what I was trying to say. Yes, less-than-full at a higher price point can generate the same or more money than a full ship at a lower price point. When I said they need to price them at a level they can fill them, I didn't mean "fill to 100% capacity", I meant "fill to make enough money to cover the debt and make a profit."

 

Building a new luxury ship is expensive. Really expensive. And expedition ships which hold 200 passengers aren't proportionally cheaper than ships which carry 700 or more passengers — so there's built-in need to price suites on a new expedition ship higher to cover the debt load and make a profit. And there is significant competition from both established and new cruise lines seeking the same pool of customers willing to pay premium prices for new, luxury expedition ships. If a cruise line prices its new luxury expedition cruises too high, in order to meet their revenue needs, they could find themselves with ships sailing considerably less than full and not meeting meeting their revenue goals. Revenue management is a tricky balancing art, right? 

 

For instance: I've been watching Seabourn with their two new expedition ships. They have been regularly offering cruises at significant, advertised discounts. We booked our first trip on one of those ships next fall because it has an itinerary we're interested in, because we're interested in trying one of the new ships, but particularly because they were selling expedition cruises for 35% off list price. That seemed unusual to me among the luxury cruise lines.

 

So Silversea will need to decide how strongly their client base desires expedition cruises, and whether building new expedition ships to compete in this market against the existing and future competition makes economic sense. For comparison, Regent has decided (at least for now) to bypass the smaller-ship expedition market and focus on new 750-ish luxury passenger ships. Silversea might decide in the future that with the cost of building and staffing ships, that 700+ passenger ships work better economically than 200-passenger expedition ships.