Carnival Panorama Propulsion Issues

[RCmommy]

4 minutes ago, TiredTrucker said:

 

Just a guess, but I don't think it sounds like a significant breakdown, but rather a part (or series of parts) that continually fails under strain thus the reduction, and not outright loss, of propulsion.  And why the repairs are never permanent.

 

But I have no clue how these ships work.  In the words of Oddball:  "I just ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work."

Exactly, however if the same issue continues to happen “here and there” you would think the “part” needed, or the fix required would be readily available/doable. So that a sailing may at worst case be late coming in to a port, or be forced to leave a bit early perhaps, but not miss two ports entirely like the current Panorama sailing. If that ship is sailing each week with the possibility multiple ports getting missed is entirely possible, in my opinion they should be selling it to clients at exactly that. 

[pistnbroke]

According to the letter from the Captain, the ship will arrive in Cabo at

6.30 am Wednesday and depart at 4.30pm 

So 3 full sea days coming down but only 2 full sea days on the way back to Long Beach.

Wonder how that will work unless she takes a more direct route than the current one

[TiredTrucker]

1 minute ago, pistnbroke said:

According to the letter from the Captain, the ship will arrive in Cabo at

6.30 am Wednesday and depart at 4.30pm 

So 3 full sea days coming down but only 2 full sea days on the way back to Long Beach.

Wonder how that will work unless she takes a more direct route than the current one

 

Sounds like she's dragging her feet a little to get her full 7 days.  Would think they'd do the double Cabo port thing instead but maybe that's not an option.  Or maybe she really is this crippled and they simply hope they can put the spurs to her getting home nearly on time.  

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, mz-s said:

One day horizon will be scrap as well.

And this will also come to pass, that said you made the ananlogy.

[LaRue1975]

1 hour ago, RCmommy said:

I truly don’t know.  Maybe it’s less likely on sailings with super calm water and winds so the ship doesn’t “overheat”. That’s my non-mechanically inclined brain ideology.

 

We have her booked for January.  We did the Vista last January and I recall a lot posts here and there about propulsion issues leading up to our sailing.  There seemed to be no determining factor for the issue on your own cruise, either good luck or bad. We had good luck.  Fingers crossed!

We are on the Miracle and passed the Panorama on Friday and yesterday as we were heading in the opposite direction. The seas have been exceptionally calm with little wind so I don’t think that was a factor. 

[jsglow]

1 hour ago, TiredTrucker said:

 

Sounds like she's dragging her feet a little to get her full 7 days.  Would think they'd do the double Cabo port thing instead but maybe that's not an option.  Or maybe she really is this crippled and they simply hope they can put the spurs to her getting home nearly on time.  

I'm guessing that part of the decision was other traffic in Cabo. She's arriving on Wednesday which is not her normal day. I'm guessing that's a typically slow day as it doesn't fit well with a normal weekend So Cal embarkation. 

[brepri_h]

That is such a bummer but I never fully expect everything to go 100% perfect on a cruise because of whether or boat problems! I feel really bad for everyone on board but they did get $400 on board credit so at least that's something!

[ProgRockCruiser]

12 hours ago, RCmommy said:

Exactly, however if the same issue continues to happen “here and there” you would think the “part” needed, or the fix required would be readily available/doable. So that a sailing may at worst case be late coming in to a port, or be forced to leave a bit early perhaps, but not miss two ports entirely like the current Panorama sailing. 

@chengkp75 will have a more comprehensive response, but if there is a part or several part/components that can fail, but not with any predictability, they have to just go with what they can.  Maybe it takes 8 hours to replace, and they are scheduled to be in port only 6 hrs, so they can't do it without incurring port charges, and maybe they take the chance it will be OK limping along, and then suddenly it isn't good enough.

 

And maybe they just can't keep enough parts on hand (on board) for the three affected ships.  Or more, if we include the Costa-built ships.  So they have to limp along while one gets shipped from Vista to Panorama.  (And now Vista is at risk...)

 

12 hours ago, RCmommy said:

If that ship is sailing each week with the possibility multiple ports getting missed is entirely possible, in my opinion they should be selling it to clients at exactly that.

Nobody in any kind of transportation-based business is ever going to do that.

 

"Thank you for flying All-Spi-Fro-Blu airlines, as we prepare for landing please extinguish all smoking materials, including the plane if possible."

[crazy4themouse]

I guess I'm an outlier (again) but mostly/all sea days AND $400 obc would have my husband and I absolutely over the moon. Win-win!! 😍

 

[mkcurran]

I have sympathy for those missing Mazatlan and PV, they are awesome ports. Only going to Cabo would be a disappointment. But the ship and the crew are fantastic. I wouldn't be disappointed having to eat extra tacos at Blue Iguana or another Guy's burger. 

Granted if I got $400 OBC, most of it would go to the casino, which I'd now have plenty of time to visit. But I do think future cruise credit would have been a better move. 

I can hope the issues are fixed by the time I board the ship in April, but knowing my luck, they'll send it to dry dock early and I'll have to make new plans. 

At the end of the day the people on board are not cooking, cleaning, or having to do the dishes, so it beats staying home.

[Jzx1103]

Bigger question is what are they planning to do about the upcoming sailings now that the ship can only do 10 knts. Are they just gonna keep sailing the Panorama 7 nts with only a stop at Cabo without doing anything else about it?

[RCmommy]

4 minutes ago, Jzx1103 said:

Bigger question is what are they planning to do about the upcoming sailings now that the ship can only do 10 knts. Are they just gonna keep sailing the Panorama 7 nts with only a stop at Cabo without doing anything else about it?

 

..and continue booking people on the ship knowing this and not giving them the heads up?  I am on her in roughly 80 days.  If I knew of the issue I would have held off booking this itinerary until the future. Some don't mind the risk, but I do.  I don't book during hurricane season because I know the odds are higher itineraries can change, ports get missed, etc.  I wouldn't book a ship with issues, that would "most likely" get me to the destination ports. This is our first MR cruise, and most likely our only.  I cannot switch now. 

[Jzx1103]

6 minutes ago, RCmommy said:

 

..and continue booking people on the ship knowing this and not giving them the heads up?  I am on her in roughly 80 days.  If I knew of the issue I would have held off booking this itinerary until the future. Some don't mind the risk, but I do.  I don't book during hurricane season because I know the odds are higher itineraries can change, ports get missed, etc.  I wouldn't book a ship with issues, that would "most likely" get me to the destination ports. This is our first MR cruise, and most likely our only.  I cannot switch now. 

 Ours is December 13th, its even a partially comped cruise (we still had to pay 3rd and 4th person fare for our kids). But I'm actually hoping they can either fix the issue before we sail or allow us to cancel with full refund. I don't really want to do a 7 night with one port. Even if its partially comped. 

[jsglow]

Let's not all jump to conclusions about what the immediate future holds.

[RCmommy]

3 minutes ago, Jzx1103 said:

 Ours is December 13th, its even a partially comped cruise (we still had to pay 3rd and 4th person fare for our kids). But I'm actually hoping they can either fix the issue before we sail or allow us to cancel with full refund. I don't really want to do a 7 night with one port. Even if its partially comped. 

Same.  The $400 OBC was a kind gesture to those onboard now.  I would much rather have the ports of call.  I know not everyone cares, its no big deal, but the itinerary is important to some. 

[chengkp75]

Let's first ask a few questions about the information that is out there, before jumping to conclusions about what has happened.

 

First off, is it confirmed that the ship can only make 10 knots, or is it that the ship is proceeding at that speed to match the itinerary?  Big difference in what may or may not be the actual failure.

 

Next, are there two wakes behind the ship, or just one?  Another big difference in what may or may not be the actual failure.

 

From what I've read in this thread, Carnival has not said there is a propulsion problem causing a reduction in ship's speed.  This could very well not be an azipod issue, but having one or more diesel generators out of service limiting the power available to the azipods for propulsion.  This seems to be a growing problem over the last year, for all cruise lines, where one engine is taken down for overhaul, parts shortages cause delays in completing the overhaul, and another engine goes down for repair or maintenance.

 

As for "redesigning" azipods, lets get real here.  First off, just because your car has to go in for repairs to the brakes one month, and then for replacement of a fan belt the next month, does not mean you have a repetitive failure, but the car is still out of service.  Without knowing what may have possibly failed on an azipod, no one knows whether this is a repetitive failure or not.  Secondly, the azipods on the Panorama are not the largest azipods built, they are about 80% the size of the azipods on the Oasis class, and other, ships, so design has gone beyond the Panorama.

 

And "known" problems.  Does anyone here know what the problem is?  Does your car have "known" problems if it needs repair for various different reasons? 

 

As for why there are limitations on some sailings and not others?  Are you looking at the same itineraries, or do different itineraries have limitations on speed, and some do not?  That can be from the planned speed based on the itinerary.  Ships don't go full speed all the time between ports.  Depending on the distance between ports, and the planned arrival and departure times, they may have to go fast, or may be able to go slow.  If the itinerary is designed for slow sailing, then there isn't any limitation.  If the itinerary requires higher speeds, then if the ship cannot produce those speeds, there will be a change in itinerary.

[Honolulu Blue]

29 minutes ago, Jzx1103 said:

Bigger question is what are they planning to do about the upcoming sailings now that the ship can only do 10 knts. Are they just gonna keep sailing the Panorama 7 nts with only a stop at Cabo without doing anything else about it?

That's a key question, IMHO.  It depends mostly on where they can fix it and how long it will take.  If they can fix it within a week at Long Beach, then the effects are minimal.  If they have to go to dry dock to do a permanent fix, then that complicates things.  

 

My recollection of azipod issues on other Vista-class ships is that it can take a while to fix, but sometimes they wait a while to do so.  One thing they could do is switch ships and itineraries temporarily with the Radiance.  We'll see what they come up with.

[bptex]

1 hour ago, Jzx1103 said:

Bigger question is what are they planning to do about the upcoming sailings now that the ship can only do 10 knts. Are they just gonna keep sailing the Panorama 7 nts with only a stop at Cabo without doing anything else about it?

I really hope not since we've got an 8 day booked over Thanksgiving. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Let's first ask a few questions about the information that is out there, before jumping to conclusions about what has happened.

Well that's not the spirit of Cruise Critic!

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

As for "redesigning" azipods, lets get real here.  First off, just because your car has to go in for repairs to the brakes one month, and then for replacement of a fan belt the next month, does not mean you have a repetitive failure, but the car is still out of service.  Without knowing what may have possibly failed on an azipod, no one knows whether this is a repetitive failure or not. 

Indeed, I alluded to that in my response.  However, if _your_ car is going into the shop every month, even if for something different each time, and your neighbors' cars almost never go in, then it speaks to a potential systemic issue in the overall design.  I think that is what concerns me the most: the whole propulsion system might be under-designed end-to-end, and failures can not only occur in multiple areas, they might be having knock-on effects - like if your car transmission suddenly seizes, the engine isn't too happy about it...

 

It would be nice if Carnival (and other brands that suffer mechanical issues) were more forthcoming about exactly what is going on, but that is rarely communicated to the general public...

Edited November 7, 2023 by ProgRockCruiser

[chengkp75]

Are the ships having problems every month?  Are the other cruise lines not having azipod problems?  Maybe not at this moment, but other lines have had major failures, some in clusters, over the years.  And the Spirit class ships have slightly higher power azipods than the Panorama.

 

As far as transparency, does Amtrak notify people of the exact cause of delays or rescheduling due to mechanical issues?  Do the airlines?  Does any transportation company?  Why should the cruise lines be any different?

[csm5986142]

Panorama is one of my favorite ships and we sail from Long Beach often (it's one of our closest ports).  Missing a port wouldn't really bother me (we've been to them several times) but in July, we got back to Long Beach late causing us to miss our flight (so that was kind of an expensive ordeal).  In the future I will definitely book an afternoon flight when getting off Panorama.

[jimbo5544]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Let's first ask a few questions about the information that is out there, before jumping to conclusions about what has happened.

 

First off, is it confirmed that the ship can only make 10 knots, or is it that the ship is proceeding at that speed to match the itinerary?  Big difference in what may or may not be the actual failure.

 

Next, are there two wakes behind the ship, or just one?  Another big difference in what may or may not be the actual failure.

 

From what I've read in this thread, Carnival has not said there is a propulsion problem causing a reduction in ship's speed.  This could very well not be an azipod issue, but having one or more diesel generators out of service limiting the power available to the azipods for propulsion.  This seems to be a growing problem over the last year, for all cruise lines, where one engine is taken down for overhaul, parts shortages cause delays in completing the overhaul, and another engine goes down for repair or maintenance.

 

As for "redesigning" azipods, lets get real here.  First off, just because your car has to go in for repairs to the brakes one month, and then for replacement of a fan belt the next month, does not mean you have a repetitive failure, but the car is still out of service.  Without knowing what may have possibly failed on an azipod, no one knows whether this is a repetitive failure or not.  Secondly, the azipods on the Panorama are not the largest azipods built, they are about 80% the size of the azipods on the Oasis class, and other, ships, so design has gone beyond the Panorama.

 

And "known" problems.  Does anyone here know what the problem is?  Does your car have "known" problems if it needs repair for various different reasons? 

 

As for why there are limitations on some sailings and not others?  Are you looking at the same itineraries, or do different itineraries have limitations on speed, and some do not?  That can be from the planned speed based on the itinerary.  Ships don't go full speed all the time between ports.  Depending on the distance between ports, and the planned arrival and departure times, they may have to go fast, or may be able to go slow.  If the itinerary is designed for slow sailing, then there isn't any limitation.  If the itinerary requires higher speeds, then if the ship cannot produce those speeds, there will be a change in itinerary.

Great post of facts and expertise as usual.

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, TiredTrucker said:

 

Per stateroom...I thought it was $400 per person.  That's even worse.  But if the folks on the affected sailing are happy that's all that matters.

Falls right in line with their past problem sailings.  There is good news there, consistency is a good, thing, it sets expectations.   

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, csm5986142 said:

Panorama is one of my favorite ships and we sail from Long Beach often (it's one of our closest ports).  Missing a port wouldn't really bother me (we've been to them several times) but in July, we got back to Long Beach late causing us to miss our flight (so that was kind of an expensive ordeal).  In the future I will definitely book an afternoon flight when getting off Panorama.

Mazatlan is not a big miss…..imho

[1stresponder2086]

I just got off the phone with my PvP in regards to the panorama propulsion issue as my cruise is 12/9. I was informed that there is a team of engineers working on a repair and hopefully will be done in two weeks. I was told carnival will be reaching out to guests with their options on affected cruises.  That is all.