Zaandam and Icon---butt view.

[RedIguana]

The Icon may have a listed space ratio of 44.32, but in reality will sail with a space ratio under 36. HAL's ships are much more likely to sail fairly close to the calculated space ratio. I do agree with you though as far as how well RCI's large ships handle the passenger flow considering the passenger numbers, and do enjoy the Oasis class. Somewhere back in the day I saw something about 35 being the magical space ratio. Under it will feel crowded, over 35 all is good. 

[OlsSalt]

Why go on a ship, when you just want land-based entertainment. Circus Circus in Las Vegas should fill the bill, without all that unnecessary ocean pollution. 

[BermudaBound2014]

4 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

Why go on a ship, when you just want land-based entertainment. Circus Circus in Las Vegas should fill the bill, without all that unnecessary ocean pollution. 

 

 Lots of reasons to choose sailing on a ship that provides additional amusement. Gentle rocking to sleep. Wake up in a different place every day. Beautiful sunsets. I could go on and on. 

 

PS: If you are truly worried about pollution (and insist on sailing) you may want to consider choosing to sail on LGN ships. The lack of diesel smell is quite nice. 

Edited February 7 by BermudaBound2014

[cruisemom42]

11 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Of course, the massive ships can not get into most ports. But if/when doing the typical bus runs, I would gladly sail on any of the "behemoth of the seas".  When looking for more interesting itineraries you will have to look elsewhere. 

 

Well, there you have my reason. I pretty much only sail for the ports and interesting itineraries; don't do "bus runs" (nice term).

 

I also like cerebral activities. It's difficult to imagine any circumstances under which I'd want to do that vertical slide -- unless maybe they were offering me $1M. 

 

On a more serious note, I have heard arguments back and forth about those space ratios and how much they really tell you about how crowded ships will feel. I wonder whether ships like Icon -- which have a significant amount of "space" allotted to certain recreational activities that can only be enjoyed by a few at a time -- really feel less crowded? Seems to me that a majority of folks will not be utilizing those areas at any given time, so perhaps it is a "false flag" (e.g., a few areas will be less crowded while others will be more crowded or at least the same as ships with lower ratios)...

[Hobar]

9 hours ago, RedIguana said:

The Icon may have a listed space ratio of 44.32, but in reality will sail with a space ratio under 36. HAL's ships are much more likely to sail fairly close to the calculated space ratio. I do agree with you though as far as how well RCI's large ships handle the passenger flow considering the passenger numbers, and do enjoy the Oasis class. Somewhere back in the day I saw something about 35 being the magical space ratio. Under it will feel crowded, over 35 all is good. 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/wiki/761-cruise-ship-passenger-capacity-ratings

[chill6x6]

On 2/5/2024 at 9:53 PM, iceman93 said:

I'm sure that the same picture in the RCCL boards would generate a lot of "you'd never catch me dead on that tiny, boring ship on the left" posts.  Which is fine--different strokes, and all that.  But yes, without ever having sailed on an ...of the Seas ship, I am quite content continuing to sail with HAL.

I have room for both and have done it both ways....with Oasis several times and Harmony AND as the previous Rotterdam. In fact I went from a cruise on Oasis TO Rotterdam.  Both different.  Both offered something the other didn't. I loved both cruises!  Variety truly IS the spice of life! 

[BermudaBound2014]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Well, there you have my reason. I pretty much only sail for the ports and interesting itineraries; don't do "bus runs" (nice term).

 

I also like cerebral activities. It's difficult to imagine any circumstances under which I'd want to do that vertical slide -- unless maybe they were offering me $1M. 

 

On a more serious note, I have heard arguments back and forth about those space ratios and how much they really tell you about how crowded ships will feel. I wonder whether ships like Icon -- which have a significant amount of "space" allotted to certain recreational activities that can only be enjoyed by a few at a time -- really feel less crowded? Seems to me that a majority of folks will not be utilizing those areas at any given time, so perhaps it is a "false flag" (e.g., a few areas will be less crowded while others will be more crowded or at least the same as ships with lower ratios)...

 

That's my point. For those of us that enjoy both cerebral and adrenaline activities there are opportunities on the seas. I just hate to see people dismiss the larger ships because they assume they will feel too crowded. That's simply not true based on my personal experience.

 

I've sailed  everything from very small ships; 20G/T to the large 250G/t, and in my experience, the space ratios really do hold true for the most part. Where you will feel crowded on the 'behemoth of the seas' is areas like the zip line, flow rider, Ifly, etc..  Areas that attract children and immature retirees like myself :).

 

As Chill6x6 stated, for some of us, variety is the spice of life. Others have found a routine that works and prefer few changes.  Neither is right or wrong.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8 by BermudaBound2014

[ski ww]

With this ship, the ship is the destination, not the itinerary. Thanks but no thanks, to each their own.  

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

That's my point. For those of us that enjoy both cerebral and adrenaline activities there are opportunities on the seas. I just hate to see people dismiss the larger ships because they assume they will feel too crowded. That's simply not true based on my personal experience.

 

 

Guess I misinterpreted your statement below, which seems pretty clear:

 

On 2/7/2024 at 10:17 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

Unless you have mobility issues that prevent walking long distances, I can't think of a single reason not to enjoy them.

 

🤷‍♀️

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Guess I misinterpreted your statement below, which seems pretty clear:

 

 

🤷‍♀️

I can see how my post could have easily been misinterpreted. My fault. I should be better.

 

I prefaced my post by acknowledging  that smaller ships can do more interesting itineraries and offer a more relaxed vacation. Those are two reasons not to enjoy the big girls. 

 

When I stated “unless you have mobility issues that prevent you from walking long distances, I can’t think of a single reason not to enjoy them” I was referring to their size/space ratio and the onboard experience offered. Pointing out the fact that they don’t necessarily feel more crowded. 
 

I should have said, unless you have mobility issues that prevent you from walking long distances, there is nothing about the size of the big ships that would prevent you from enjoying the onboard experience offered. 
 

I understand many people know what they like and stick to it, but often I see mentioned that size equates crowding and that just isn’t true. 
 

 

[GeezerCouple]

12 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I should have said, unless you have mobility issues that prevent you from walking long distances, there is nothing about the size of the big ships that would prevent you from enjoying the onboard experience offered. 

 

Yes, this would have been more clear.

 

For us, unless we have the grands with us, we just wouldn't have any interest in those bells and whistles.  It should suffice to mention that we were VERY disappointed to find out that Lincoln Center classical music chamber groups every afternoon (or almost?) ending was a major disappointment for us.

 

Our grands did go on one of the huge Icon of the X ships a year or two ago with their parents.  The parents reported that the kids had a fantastic time, but even so... the ship was... "just SO big!"   They probably will not cruise on another of the huge ships, even though they are probably the target demographic for those ships.

 

But for those who enjoy all the activities and also enjoy - or don't mind(?) - the size, there are obviously plenty of people who are sailing on the largest ships.

Something for everyone, etc.

 

GC

[cruisemom42]

20 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I can see how my post could have easily been misinterpreted. My fault. I should be better.

 

I prefaced my post by acknowledging  that smaller ships can do more interesting itineraries and offer a more relaxed vacation. Those are two reasons not to enjoy the big girls. 

 

When I stated “unless you have mobility issues that prevent you from walking long distances, I can’t think of a single reason not to enjoy them” I was referring to their size/space ratio and the onboard experience offered. Pointing out the fact that they don’t necessarily feel more crowded. 
 

I should have said, unless you have mobility issues that prevent you from walking long distances, there is nothing about the size of the big ships that would prevent you from enjoying the onboard experience offered. 
 

I understand many people know what they like and stick to it, but often I see mentioned that size equates crowding and that just isn’t true. 
 

 

 

Don't mind me, I was just half kidding and half letting my nerdy/pedantic flag fly. 😂  I enjoy your posts, you often have good observations to share.

 

[BermudaBound2014]

56 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Don't mind me, I was just half kidding and half letting my nerdy/pedantic flag fly. 😂  I enjoy your posts, you often have good observations to share.

 

That makes you a big group of one 🙂

 

I enjoy you also and feel that one day we are going to end up sailing together. 

[CNSJ]

One thing that seems to be overlooked, at least from my vantage point,  is actual usable square feet of floor space.  The Passenger Space Ration(PSR) is all about volume to bodies.  Huge soaring eight deck atriums that have one floor and eight levels of air don't contribute much to usable space.  I'd like to see a measurement of square feet of public space to bodies.  That would be more useful.  HAL ships don't have massive useless space, in fact they are getting rid of some like the stairway in the casino.

 

Confused?  Consider a two story house that is 40 ft x 60 ft in size.  Thats 2,400 square feet per floor or 4,800 square foot house (a big house).  Assume 10 foot ceilings (easy math) and its 48,000 cubic feet of house.  

 

Now, build the same basic house, but use a "two story - 20 ft ceiling" great room/dining room that encompasses 1/4 of the first floor.  The house still has 48,000 cubic feet, but only 4,200 square feet of floor space.  

 

Also, the big ships still only have one ship length x width "top deck" regardless of the number of decks below.  Top deck space = sun areas.

 

HAL, ships feel roomy compared to other lines I have sailed.  the Vista class feels the roomiest, even at full capacity.

 

For my metric friends - convert it meters.  

 

I found the calculation below for the discussed passenger to space ratio.

 

HOW THE PASSENGER SPACE RATIO IS CALCULATED

By definition, gross tonnage is the measurement of a ship’s internal volume, that is, its overall interior space.

The measurement is, broadly, the capacity in cubic feet of the spaces within the hull and of the enclosed spaces above the deck available for cargo, stores, passengers and crew, with certain exceptions, divided by 100. Thus 100 cubic feet of capacity is equivalent to one gross ton.

It is easy to calculate and get a feel for how crowded you might feel on a particular class of ship. It is the simple ratio between the size of the vessel Gross Tonnage divided by the number of passengers. Gross Tonnage (GT) is the number used for all ships built after 18th July 1982.

The resulting magic number is called the Passenger to Space Ratio.

[dockman]

How many ports can handle or even want a ship that size to pull in for a day?  Maybe we will soon see the return of the "cruise to nowhere" as it seems the trend in most ports is to restrict how many passengers a day is too many.  And frankly i do not blame some of the port cities for wanting to keep some semblance of sanity as to how many people can they handle in the port city without totally disrupting peoples lives.  Venice, Dubrovnik, and many other ports are making that abundantly clear and that list is likely to grow.

 

I have zero desire to sail on a ship that size.  I would rather go to a land based theme park/mall.  And I hate theme parks and malls. Not my cup of tea.

 

  But hey I hope a lot of people go on them and leave more room for me on Holland and smaller ships.

[RobTheGob]

It appears in the pic that one of my fav areas on the Zaandam (I’ve only actually sailed on the Amsterdam) is to close to empty! The public areas at the aft of most decks is often completely vacant and it’s an amazing place to watch the world go by! I also love the public deck at the front of the ship, below the bridge. 

 

We’re looking into Zaandam (and maybe the Volendam) itineraries, to a large degree because of my memories of the ship layout…

[Silverspringcruiser]

The only times I ever feel crowded on a cruise ship are breakfast and lunch at the lido and going through the casino after the main stage show ends. The rest of the time there are more than enough places to get away from everybody.

[Hobar]

I enjoy reading these posts. Size is relative. When I sail on HAL next month, it will be my first time on what I consider to be a “large ship” since I haven’t sailed on a large ship since NCL over 30 years ago. Between then and now, the max capacity I sailed was 600 passengers, but never had  more than 450 or 500. I am truly looking forward to my sailing on HAL as it will be with my mother and my sister and we intend to partake in all activities offered as the itinerary we have is about the ship and not the ports.  (It will also be their first time on a large ship.)  

Edited February 15 by Hobar
Punctuation

[GeezerCouple]

Oh, I keep forgetting to ask...

 

On those huuuuge ships, with the long hallways and treks back and forth, is there an extra charge for the bus system or for taxis?  Or is that included?

 

😉

[3rdGenCunarder]

I'm on Zaandam now, and on the way to the ship, I got a look at Icon. How can that thing ride well in rough weather with so much superstructure? What's the draught of a ship like that??? 

 

The cruise is supposedly sold out, yet the ship doesn't feel crowded. The early show in World Stage is nearly full, but there are some seats available when the show starts. The Lido hasn't been crazy busy, even on port days with a lot of early tours. Loungers by the pool get claimed early, but that's everywhere. The six recliners in the library are ever empty. But other areas have plenty of seating. I tend to eat lunch around 12-1, and I like to sit out by the pool. I don't remember a day I couldn't find somewhere to sit and eat, 

 

I'm used to the Vistas and my last HALcruise was on Eurodam, so Zaandam does feel small. I'm always surprised at how quickly I get somewhere. Short walk or just a flight or two of stairs. 

[cruisemom42]

12 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

Oh, I keep forgetting to ask...

 

On those huuuuge ships, with the long hallways and treks back and forth, is there an extra charge for the bus system or for taxis?  Or is that included?

 

😉

 

Reminds me of those old jokes the on-board comedians would always use about life onboard ship, e.g., "Where are the elevators that take me from the front of the ship to the back?"

 

[Haljo1935]

15 hours ago, Hobar said:

I enjoy reading these posts. Size is relative. When I sail on HAL next month, it will be my first time on what I consider to be a “large ship” since I haven’t sailed on a large ship since NCL over 30 years ago. Between then and now, the max capacity I sailed was 600 passengers, but never had  more than 450 or 500. I am truly looking forward to my sailing on HAL as it will be with my mother and my sister and we intend to partake in all activities offered as the itinerary we have is about the ship and not the ports.  (It will also be their first time on a large ship.)  

Welcome to HAL - enjoy your "girls cruise!"

[RedIguana]

13 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

I'm on Zaandam now, and on the way to the ship, I got a look at Icon. How can that thing ride well in rough weather with so much superstructure? What's the draught of a ship like that??? 

The draught is slightly over 30 feet, compared to about 27 for the Zaandam.  Keeping the draught to less than 31 feet is pretty normal, as much past that restricts more and more ports. They do that by increasing the width, which allows for greater displacement without the extra draught. The larger and wider ships will also handle rough seas better, especially if they can stay above the 6-8 knot speed required for stabilizers to start being effective, which serves to dampen the roll. Obviously you will undergo more motion on the higher decks. Long and skinny is built for speed and/or fuel efficiency, such as the original ocean liners, as they were meant for transportation at a time when engines did not have the amount of horsepower they can now produce. Modern cruise ships are less concerned with speed and more with passenger comfort, as long as they have the horsepower to achieve roughly 20-22 knot cruise speed and 23-25 knot max. The icon is only 10 feet longer and 3 feet wider than the newest Oasis class ship (Wonder), and 15 feet longer and 5 feet wider than the original Oasis from 2009. Wonder actually has a greater double occupancy capacity than Icon, and the original Oasis is just a few passengers shy of the Icon at double occupancy. The big difference is in the design that allows for a much greater max occupancy (500 more than Wonder and 900 more than the original Oasis).

[TiogaCruiser]

On 2/9/2024 at 9:01 PM, dockman said:

How many ports can handle or even want a ship that size to pull in for a day?  Maybe we will soon see the return of the "cruise to nowhere" as it seems the trend in most ports is to restrict how many passengers a day is too many.  And frankly i do not blame some of the port cities for wanting to keep some semblance of sanity as to how many people can they handle in the port city without totally disrupting peoples lives.  Venice, Dubrovnik, and many other ports are making that abundantly clear and that list is likely to grow.

 

I have zero desire to sail on a ship that size.  I would rather go to a land based theme park/mall.  And I hate theme parks and malls. Not my cup of tea.

 

  But hey I hope a lot of people go on them and leave more room for me on Holland and smaller ships.

Same here. Nor do I want to be in port with one of them.