Panorama Refund - Possibly internal fraud?

[80sGal]

Try reaching out to John Heald in his official FB page.  It has a blue check mark by his name so you know its the "real" page.  I believe he's on Horizon this week but he appears to he very good at fielding these types of problems when someone is clearly frustrated and have done their best to fix an issue.  He perhaps cant fix the reimbursement question but he can at least likely address the legitimacy of those emails and reach out to the appropriate "beards."  

[mz-s]

Mailing a bad check is mail fraud - so this is a fairly big deal. I agree, call your county solicitor or magistrate or whatever they're called in your area.

[jimbo5544]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:45 PM, Jamman54 said:

Something doesn't seem quite right. Any refunds should have been credited back to the original form of payment. How did you book? How did you pay? Need more info. 😎

Bingo

[Kevin135i]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:53 PM, 80sGal said:

Try reaching out to John Heald in his official FB page.  It has a blue check mark by his name so you know its the "real" page.  I believe he's on Horizon this week but he appears to he very good at fielding these types of problems when someone is clearly frustrated and have done their best to fix an issue.  He perhaps cant fix the reimbursement question but he can at least likely address the legitimacy of those emails and reach out to the appropriate "beards."  

His FB doesn't allow messages but I did leave him on on IG. Hopefully he'll see it

[Elaine5715]

27 minutes ago, Kevin135i said:

His FB doesn't allow messages but I did leave him on on IG. Hopefully he'll see it

He won't.  Just FB. 

[mz-s]

29 minutes ago, Kevin135i said:

His FB doesn't allow messages but I did leave him on on IG. Hopefully he'll see it

 

There is a post he writes once each day and you write your message as a comment to that post. That is the only way he reads messages.

[Elaine5715]

On 2/20/2024 at 3:55 PM, Kevin135i said:

 

Honestly, I think you're onto something.

Originally the contact was made via phone call after Carnival sent out the Mass-Email regarding the cancellation and the mechanic issues on Panorama. This was when we reached out to them. The phone number was in that email and it matches the one on their official website. They then emailed us regarding the steps required to process the refund. That's the email we been corresponding with and as far as I know, it's legit since it also matches their emails on the website.

Due to that, I'm thinking their system is compromised and that someone managed to get in and took over one of their account(s). We triple checked the email and all the email between us back and forth also cc'ed every carnival guest related email addresses. So it's not just 1 email recipient, there's multiple ppl involved in the emails, hence why we ruled out the phishing scam part. As a matter of fact, their initial email included information like our names, booking number and incident number, which a scammer wouldn't have without us telling them it first. So this leads me to believe that if there is a scam/fraud attempt, they're definitely internal staff doing it.

 

You're right though, scammers knows what they are doing and are quite resourceful, so regardless of how or when they managed to get in. If, that is truly the case, they clearly managed to do so successfully. So far so good on our banking, we called to check today and informed them of the potential threat(s) and they have confirmed that no random transactions or attempt of transaction has been made. 

 

As for reimbursing the airfares, the email they sent out did include information about how "eligible guests" can submit a request for refund for their flights. We have traveling companions who got their refund successfully. So I'm not sure why some guests are being denied of such refunds when Carnival themselves offered it. 

We called Carnival again (another different agent answered) yesterday and they can confirm that based on our file number, a cheque was mailed out and approved, and they can also see the "request of change of address", but the odd part is they are unable to open up the request to see which agent handled it or see any further information about it. Now THAT'S the part that makes absolutely no sense to me. Part of this seems fully legitimate, but part of it sounds almost like an organized internal fraud thing. It's very frustrating and confusing.

Type in email addresses.  Don't copy and paste or reply all. The scammers will substitute numbers and letters with lookalikes like Ṅ For N. See that tiny dot?

[BeachChik]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:51 PM, Kevin135i said:

This refund is for the flights. It was paid via Westjet and since Westjet isn't affiliated with Carnival, they will send us a cheque to cover the expense loss, which is where we provided the supporting documents of flights/bookings/names and etc. 

The weirdest part is that, they are extremely cooperative and helpful in terms of agreeing to pay for our flights reimbursement and such. It wasn't an argument at all, hence why we're taken back at how questionable the entire cheque process and the random "request for change of address" came about. It's almost like someone was like "Oh your claim is legitimate so we will go ahead and approve that and send the cheque... to ourselves MUHAHAHAH"

 

I guess I’m confused. You state in this post the refund wasn’t even through carnival, it was a company unaffiliated with them. 
 

why would carnival issue a refund for flights that weren’t booked through them? 
 

And who was the issuer of the check you tried to deposit? Was there a letter with it or just a check? 
 

I feel like information is missing. 

[mz-s]

5 minutes ago, BeachChik said:

I guess I’m confused. You state in this post the refund wasn’t even through carnival, it was a company unaffiliated with them. 
 

why would carnival issue a refund for flights that weren’t booked through them? 
 

And who was the issuer of the check you tried to deposit? Was there a letter with it or just a check? 
 

I feel like information is missing. 

 

No information is missing, you just don't know what is going on I suppose. Carnival reimburses travel expenses when cruises are cancelled outside of the guest's control - that is what happened here.

[Kevin135i]

1 hour ago, BeachChik said:

I guess I’m confused. You state in this post the refund wasn’t even through carnival, it was a company unaffiliated with them. 
 

why would carnival issue a refund for flights that weren’t booked through them? 
 

And who was the issuer of the check you tried to deposit? Was there a letter with it or just a check? 
 

I feel like information is missing. 

Carnival is covering the cost of people's flight due to the cancellation. They sent out a mass email stating that eligible guests will qualify, which we do. The check comes from Carnival themselves directly. The check we got (that bounced) was already confirmed by Carnival themselves that they do see it on their system but it was also cancelled because of a request for change of address. 

The problem is, they are struggling to see which agent processed it and whom even made such request. So it's clearly something going on internally.

The refund is from Carnival themselves.

[vnyislesv]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:21 PM, Kevin135i said:

We've been battling with Carnival about our refund since the cancellation that happened with Panorama, last December, due to mechanical failure.

At first they were very accommodating and understanding. They reassured us that we will get the full refund and credits for future bookings. Despite the disappointment, we knew it was nobody's fault and that stuff happens in life. We carried on with the anticipation of booking a new cruise once we receive the refund.

Sadly, that's where things starts to get a little fishy. We received the cheque in the mail and went to the bank to deposit it. A few days later, we were notified that it bounced and we were charged additional fees due to that. Now we are out of our refund AND owe more money due to the cheque not going through. We thought this was extremely odd since Carnival is a huge corporation, so why would a cheque from them bounce? We tried to get a hold of Carnival to no avail. Every time we speak to someone on the phone, they claim that they have no way of communicating with the finance/refund department. Seriously? You have no way of talking to your own company? We were advised to continue to correspond with the email we previously were in contact with regarding the supporting documents and file number. We emailed back explaining the situation and this situation got even more shady. The email we received back was written like a broken robot with horrible grammar and spelling mistakes, including our name. It literally looked like one of those spam email you get that tries to scam you. The email stated that the previous cheque was cancelled due to a request for a change of address. So a NEW cheque was sent out to the NEW address. We then immediately inform them that we made no such request and please provide proof of any such request that was made, by who and to what this "new" address is?

They refuse to provide any information or claim that they "cannot see that information" on their system?

What? How does this makes any sense? The only thing I can think of is that someone internal is taking advantage of the situation and saw an opportunity to commit fraud because of the chaos and the volume of refunds that are being issued.

 

Anyone have any advise how we can go about this? or potentially, anyone experiencing anything similar? We're currently at a lost and extremely frustrated that we're out so much money, especially when we've had nothing but positive experience with Carnival until this event.

you’re 100% being scammed by a guy in Nigeria.  I don’t know the backstory but carnival will always communicate with you.  They will never ask you to email them and then send a response back like a 3 year old wrote.

 

Call carnival directly.  Google their corporate office in Miami.  Nothing else matters.  You’re being scammed.  You’re out that $ the bank charged you, consider it gone.
 

How people get scammed, I’ll never understand.  Why would a billion dollar company only communicate with email?  Why would a billion dollar company’s check bounce?  Why would a billion dollar company even send you a check?

 

what’s the email they’re talking to you from?

[nydney1]

On 2/19/2024 at 3:39 PM, pc_load_letter said:

Can you take a cruise line to small claims court? My dad sued GM (and won) in small claims court back in the 80s but I am not sure how you would go about it nowadays.

Be aware if you take the cruise line to court, there is a chance you could find yourself on the banned for life list.

[FTLCruiseGal]

4 hours ago, vnyislesv said:

you’re 100% being scammed by a guy in Nigeria.  I don’t know the backstory but carnival will always communicate with you.  They will never ask you to email them and then send a response back like a 3 year old wrote.

 

Call carnival directly.  Google their corporate office in Miami.  Nothing else matters.  You’re being scammed.  You’re out that $ the bank charged you, consider it gone.
 

How people get scammed, I’ll never understand.  Why would a billion dollar company only communicate with email?  Why would a billion dollar company’s check bounce?  Why would a billion dollar company even send you a check?

 

what’s the email they’re talking to you from?

Exactly!

[Kevin135i]

12 hours ago, vnyislesv said:

you’re 100% being scammed by a guy in Nigeria.  I don’t know the backstory but carnival will always communicate with you.  They will never ask you to email them and then send a response back like a 3 year old wrote.

 

Call carnival directly.  Google their corporate office in Miami.  Nothing else matters.  You’re being scammed.  You’re out that $ the bank charged you, consider it gone.
 

How people get scammed, I’ll never understand.  Why would a billion dollar company only communicate with email?  Why would a billion dollar company’s check bounce?  Why would a billion dollar company even send you a check?

 

what’s the email they’re talking to you from?

I certainly hope not since originally we called the customer service number

800-764-7419

Who sent us a confirmation email with our booking numbers and all the names on our travel. Which came from

guestadmin@carnival.com

And they cc'd guestcare@carnival.com

 

The original contact was definitely via phone to carnival themselves. We even called back again later one after the check bounced and Carnival confirmed they see the check mailed out under our name and incident number but there was also a request to have the check cancelled due to change of address. This is where they can't seem to figure out what went wrong. They can't see which carnival agent authorized the change of address nor can they see what the address was changed to.

This was all confirmed via Carnival phone line. So not sure how a guy in Nigeria got onto carnival's phone system.

[Drazil65]

Very strange CCL saying they cannot see the agent who authorized the cancel check and change of address.  Anyone that has worked in a finance or accounting department knows that there are many quality control points when issuing refunds especially in form of real check.  There is more than likely a digital trail (and in this case being a real check possibly a paper trail) that leads back to someone. 

 

Changing an address when a check is involved is typically a security priority and handled as such.  Documentation in some form (notes, chat transcript, phone transcript etc.) would note where and who made the request to change the address. 

 

Seems a little coincidental that an address change (which apparently was not requested) was made just as a refund check was issued and timely enough so that it could be cancelled before it was cashed.  It kind of seems that something doesn't pass the smell test somewhere along the line.  

 

Have you thought about sending certified letters to CCL corporation with copies sent to several different departments (dept. heads of finance, accounting, customer service, legal etc.) to see if you get a response from someone?   

[Kevin135i]

46 minutes ago, Drazil65 said:

Very strange CCL saying they cannot see the agent who authorized the cancel check and change of address.  Anyone that has worked in a finance or accounting department knows that there are many quality control points when issuing refunds especially in form of real check.  There is more than likely a digital trail (and in this case being a real check possibly a paper trail) that leads back to someone. 

 

Changing an address when a check is involved is typically a security priority and handled as such.  Documentation in some form (notes, chat transcript, phone transcript etc.) would note where and who made the request to change the address. 

 

Seems a little coincidental that an address change (which apparently was not requested) was made just as a refund check was issued and timely enough so that it could be cancelled before it was cashed.  It kind of seems that something doesn't pass the smell test somewhere along the line.  

 

Have you thought about sending certified letters to CCL corporation with copies sent to several different departments (dept. heads of finance, accounting, customer service, legal etc.) to see if you get a response from someone?   

Yes, this is why we are so frustrated because it looked good at first but shortly after it started to look like a scam, however because the channels were through Carnival themselves officially, it's started to seem like there are an organized corrupted crew working for them. The fact that they can fully see the check being issued but then also see that some changed were made but unable to verify how it happened, is odd. 

Especially when our friends (who were also booked for the same trip) all got their checks back and deposited with no issues. Makes this seems like a random selection for fraud attempt and we happened to be the ones.

 

We are looking into getting the contacts of the departments you have listed but it's rather difficult to find them. I have a feeling, unless we take legal actions, those contacts are simply not made accessible to the public.

[KarmaCruisers]

Post a picture of the header of the email you’re using.

i bet if you dig into it it’s spoofed and you’re actually emailing someone else; but in the mail UI; it LOOKS legit…and that’s why in the cc they have LEGIT email addresses

like others said, carnival won’t mess around with a cheque (I see you’re from canada)

if you’re asking them to refund airfare that YOU paid, NOT through carnival..there’s no way in blue hell they’d refund that

[Kevin135i]

39 minutes ago, KarmaCruisers said:

Post a picture of the header of the email you’re using.

i bet if you dig into it it’s spoofed and you’re actually emailing someone else; but in the mail UI; it LOOKS legit…and that’s why in the cc they have LEGIT email addresses

like others said, carnival won’t mess around with a cheque (I see you’re from canada)

if you’re asking them to refund airfare that YOU paid, NOT through carnival..there’s no way in blue hell they’d refund that

 

I am not sure about what their refund policies are when it comes to refunding airfare, but the fact that we know people who got theirs refunded and successfully deposited it, then it must means that they do. As well as Carnival (on the phone) themselves have confirmed that they SEE the check being issued on their system (which means they obviously DO refund airfare when their ship breaks down and people are out money). 

Now I completely understand why people think the email have been spoofed or the email have been hijacked, but when Carnival themselves can see on their system that changes were authorized and made on their end, it definitely screams internal fraud instead of some random spoofing email from Nigeria.

If they told us that they have NO records of any communication between us and that there is NO such thing as refund for airfare or a paper check ever being mailed out as that's now how they process things, then 100% I agree that I'm not communicating with Carnival authentically.

 

[Kevin135i]

GUEST ADVISORY CANCELLATION NOTICE CARNIVAL PANORAMA NOVEMBER 11, 18 & 26, 2023  DECEMBER 2, 2023     November 9, 2023 Dear Carnival Panorama Guest, Carnival Panorama is experiencing an issue affecting its maximum cruising speed. Unfortunately, we will be unable to operate the above voyages, as it is necessary to remove the ship from service to complete the required repairs.  We sincerely apologize for the unanticipated disruption to your vacation plans. We are deeply disappointed that we will not be able to deliver the cruise we had planned for you.   We will automatically process a full refund of your cruise fare, including pre-purchased Carnival shore excursions and any FunShop purchases to your original form of payment. Please be advised that it could take up to three weeks to process through your bank.     If you have independent, non-refundable air, we ask that you work directly with your airline. If your airline offers you an air credit for your non-refundable tickets, we will reimburse you for air change fees of up to US$200.00, per person, with supporting documentation. Please understand that, should you receive any compensation from any party, including your travel insurer, for these miscellaneous travel expenses, no reimbursement will be provided. Please submit your documentation to airreimbursements@carnival.com. In addition to the full refund and travel expense reimbursement, we are extending a 50% future cruise credit (FCC) for all guests so that we can welcome you back on another cruise.* The exception to this offer will be for the November 11 and November 18 voyages. Those guests will be provided a 100% FCC to reflect the last-minute notification for this next upcoming cruise, as well as the disruption to Thanksgiving plans. Please note that the FCC will be available for use starting November 13, 2023, and must be redeemed by November 30, 2024, on any departure open for sale.  Once again, we are very sorry for the disappointment this has caused and thank you for your understanding. We look forward to welcoming you on a Carnival cruise in the near future.       Sincerely, Colleen Oliverio VP, Guest Services - Contact Centers     *The future cruise credit (FCC) is based on the cruise fare paid for this voyage (excluding taxes, fees, and port expenses), is non-transferable, cannot be used as a deposit or applied to a chartered sailing, has no cash value, and must be redeemed by November 30, 2024, on any Carnival Cruise Line departure open for sale. The FCC may only be used in the same currency in which the above voyage was originally paid and cannot be used for taxes, fees and port expenses, Carnival Vacation Protection, onboard charges, or gratuities. The booking guest shall be responsible for payment of the difference between the amount of the FCC and the amount of the new booking if higher. For the new booking, there is no refund for the FCC or for any cancellation penalties that may be assessed, and the FCC will be forfeited if you choose to cancel. After you have booked your new cruise, please use this link to provide us with the booking information so we can process your FCC.

[Drazil65]

We are looking into getting the contacts of the departments you have listed but it's rather difficult to find them. I have a feeling, unless we take legal actions, those contacts are simply not made accessible to the public.

 

I get it and you may need to get creative when finding people, that being said I think the first certified letter would be to the person that signed this letter you posted from VP Colleen Oliverio. When someone has to sign for a letter it usually gets more attention and you have proof of someone signing for it.  

 

Also, ask one of the people you know that were reimbursed with a check for the name of the person who signed the check.  In many companies it is the department head that has check signing authority (or a name with a title).  This may give you a name to start with for the finance/accounting department to send a letter to.  (They can probably look at the cashed check online at the bank they use to see the signature line).  

 

The point is the more people that see the issue in writing the better and sometimes when they see how many people are getting involved it might get noticed.  Or you can have your attorney do the letter writing but could be a lot more money.  

 

 

[Illbcruzn4life]

7 hours ago, KarmaCruisers said:

Post a picture of the header of the email you’re using.

i bet if you dig into it it’s spoofed and you’re actually emailing someone else; but in the mail UI; it LOOKS legit…and that’s why in the cc they have LEGIT email addresses

like others said, carnival won’t mess around with a cheque (I see you’re from canada)

if you’re asking them to refund airfare that YOU paid, NOT through carnival..there’s no way in blue hell they’d refund that

why wouldn't they refund it? They canceled the cruise not the OP.

[Kevin135i]

Update:

Finally got the cheque reissued and deposited without any issues.

So glad this is resolved!

With that being said, we do plan to keep crusing with Carnival in the future despite this negative experience.

[carohs]

Wahoo! Happy for you OP

[pe4all]

Thank you for coming back with an update.  Glad it all finally worked out.  So many OP's leave us hanging.....

[Haljo1935]

10 hours ago, Kevin135i said:

Update:

Finally got the cheque reissued and deposited without any issues.

So glad this is resolved!

With that being said, we do plan to keep crusing with Carnival in the future despite this negative experience.

That's a happy ending!

So, what had happened, do you know, with the address change request and apparently phony emails?