Panorama Refund - Possibly internal fraud?

[Kevin135i]

We've been battling with Carnival about our refund since the cancellation that happened with Panorama, last December, due to mechanical failure.

At first they were very accommodating and understanding. They reassured us that we will get the full refund and credits for future bookings. Despite the disappointment, we knew it was nobody's fault and that stuff happens in life. We carried on with the anticipation of booking a new cruise once we receive the refund.

Sadly, that's where things starts to get a little fishy. We received the cheque in the mail and went to the bank to deposit it. A few days later, we were notified that it bounced and we were charged additional fees due to that. Now we are out of our refund AND owe more money due to the cheque not going through. We thought this was extremely odd since Carnival is a huge corporation, so why would a cheque from them bounce? We tried to get a hold of Carnival to no avail. Every time we speak to someone on the phone, they claim that they have no way of communicating with the finance/refund department. Seriously? You have no way of talking to your own company? We were advised to continue to correspond with the email we previously were in contact with regarding the supporting documents and file number. We emailed back explaining the situation and this situation got even more shady. The email we received back was written like a broken robot with horrible grammar and spelling mistakes, including our name. It literally looked like one of those spam email you get that tries to scam you. The email stated that the previous cheque was cancelled due to a request for a change of address. So a NEW cheque was sent out to the NEW address. We then immediately inform them that we made no such request and please provide proof of any such request that was made, by who and to what this "new" address is?

They refuse to provide any information or claim that they "cannot see that information" on their system?

What? How does this makes any sense? The only thing I can think of is that someone internal is taking advantage of the situation and saw an opportunity to commit fraud because of the chaos and the volume of refunds that are being issued.

 

Anyone have any advise how we can go about this? or potentially, anyone experiencing anything similar? We're currently at a lost and extremely frustrated that we're out so much money, especially when we've had nothing but positive experience with Carnival until this event.

Edited February 19 by Kevin135i

[Mike45LC]

How horrible.  I have no suggestions except I think you need to be communicating by snail mail (not email or phone), certified, return receipt requested.  I am surfe that you can get the address for corporate.  Good luck!

[pc_load_letter]

Can you take a cruise line to small claims court? My dad sued GM (and won) in small claims court back in the 80s but I am not sure how you would go about it nowadays.

[Jamman54]

Something doesn't seem quite right. Any refunds should have been credited back to the original form of payment. How did you book? How did you pay? Need more info. 😎

[Kevin135i]

5 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

Can you take a cruise line to small claims court? My dad sued GM (and won) in small claims court back in the 80s but I am not sure how you would go about it nowadays.

Oh man... I really want to avoid that route if possible. Like I mentioned, we actually love carnival and was really looking forward to another cruise with them. If I have to take legal action(s), that will probably end my journey with them in the future, which is heartbreaking since the Carnival Kids stuff is amazing for my little ones.

[Kevin135i]

1 minute ago, Jamman54 said:

Something doesn't seem quite right. Any refunds should have been credited back to the original form of payment. How did you book? How did you pay? Need more info. 😎

This refund is for the flights. It was paid via Westjet and since Westjet isn't affiliated with Carnival, they will send us a cheque to cover the expense loss, which is where we provided the supporting documents of flights/bookings/names and etc. 

The weirdest part is that, they are extremely cooperative and helpful in terms of agreeing to pay for our flights reimbursement and such. It wasn't an argument at all, hence why we're taken back at how questionable the entire cheque process and the random "request for change of address" came about. It's almost like someone was like "Oh your claim is legitimate so we will go ahead and approve that and send the cheque... to ourselves MUHAHAHAH"

 

[shof515]

13 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

Can you take a cruise line to small claims court? My dad sued GM (and won) in small claims court back in the 80s but I am not sure how you would go about it nowadays.

To do that, you will file a claim in Miami which will require lots of additional  traveling to the court house. in the guest ticket contract that you agree to when you booked the cruise:

(d) Any and all disputes, claims, or controversies whatsoever, other than for personal injury, illness or death of a Guest (whether brought in personam or in rem or based on contract, tort, statutory, constitutional or other legal rights, including but not limited to alleged violation of civil rights, discrimination, consumer or privacy laws, or for any losses, damages or expenses, relating to or in any way arising out of or connected with this Contract, the booking of the cruise, including but not limited to the booking of Carnival Vacation Protection products, shore excursions, and land and hotel packages, or Guest’s cruise, no matter how described, pleaded or styled, between the Guest and Carnival) in which Guest or any other claimant asserts damages for less than $8,000 (excluding attorney fees, costs, and interest, which are not included to determine the amount at issue) must be litigated if at all before a small claims court located in Miami-Dade County, Florida, U.S.A. to the exclusion of the courts of any other county, state or country. Guest hereby consents to such exclusive jurisdiction and waives any jurisdictional, venue or other objection that may be otherwise available.

 

contract: https://www.carnival.com/about-carnival/legal-notice?icid=CC_Footer_83

Edited February 19 by shof515

[VentureMan_2000]

6 minutes ago, Kevin135i said:

 If I have to take legal action(s), that will probably end my journey with them in the future, which is heartbreaking since the Carnival Kids stuff is amazing for my little ones.

Just because you deal with them in court does not mean you cannot still enjoy their cruises.

I sued Chevrolet for a Lemmon, and still continue to buy Chevy.  I wouldn't had to if the Dealership did its job.  Same with Carnival... just because of one bad actor within Carnival should not mean dropping Carnival altogether.

[Jamman54]

10 minutes ago, Kevin135i said:

This refund is for the flights. It was paid via Westjet and since Westjet isn't affiliated with Carnival, they will send us a cheque to cover the expense loss, which is where we provided the supporting documents of flights/bookings/names and etc. 

The weirdest part is that, they are extremely cooperative and helpful in terms of agreeing to pay for our flights reimbursement and such. It wasn't an argument at all, hence why we're taken back at how questionable the entire cheque process and the random "request for change of address" came about. It's almost like someone was like "Oh your claim is legitimate so we will go ahead and approve that and send the cheque... to ourselves MUHAHAHAH"

 

Got it. You didn't mention that in your original post. 

[Kevin135i]

12 minutes ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

Just because you deal with them in court does not mean you cannot still enjoy their cruises.

I sued Chevrolet for a Lemmon, and still continue to buy Chevy.  I wouldn't had to if the Dealership did its job.  Same with Carnival... just because of one bad actor within Carnival should not mean dropping Carnival altogether.

Oh I meant like, they will blacklist me lol

[sfaaa]

19 minutes ago, Kevin135i said:

This refund is for the flights. It was paid via Westjet and since Westjet isn't affiliated with Carnival, they will send us a cheque to cover the expense loss, which is where we provided the supporting documents of flights/bookings/names and etc. 

 

 

That's odd. I was on the same canceled cruise and Carnival flatly refused to refund my lost airfare with supporting documents because the flight wasn't booked through Carnival. 

[pe4all]

Did you have travel insurance?  If so, that would cover your cancelled flights.  Then you could just bypass Carnival. But as Mike45LC mentioned, I would now send everything - receipts, correspondence you have had, calls you have made - to Carnival - return receipt, registered mail.  Though sfaaa just wrote that CCL refused to refund their lost airfare as it wasn't booked through CCL.... 

[Kevin135i]

23 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

That's odd. I was on the same canceled cruise and Carnival flatly refused to refund my lost airfare with supporting documents because the flight wasn't booked through Carnival. 

That's crazy. You should reach out to airreimbursements@carnival.com

Lots of people were given that contact. We know of some people who have gotten their refund cheque and had no issues. Which is why we're lead to believe there's some discrepancy going on and we happened to be a target for fraud. 

[mjkacmom]

To me it sounds like you are communicating with a company fraudulently pretending to be carnival.

[Kevin135i]

43 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

To me it sounds like you are communicating with a company fraudulently pretending to be carnival.

It didn't seem that way at first but it definitely feels that way shortly later. However we double checked the emails and it's going to the correct ones. Even the response we get are cc'ing all the proper emails.

Guestadmin@carnival.com

Guestcare@carnival.com

airreimbursements@carnival.com

 

They all seem to check out

 

[BlerkOne]

5 hours ago, Kevin135i said:

This refund is for the flights. It was paid via Westjet and since Westjet isn't affiliated with Carnival, they will send us a cheque to cover the expense loss, which is where we provided the supporting documents of flights/bookings/names and etc. 

The weirdest part is that, they are extremely cooperative and helpful in terms of agreeing to pay for our flights reimbursement and such. It wasn't an argument at all, hence why we're taken back at how questionable the entire cheque process and the random "request for change of address" came about. It's almost like someone was like "Oh your claim is legitimate so we will go ahead and approve that and send the cheque... to ourselves MUHAHAHAH"

 

Were you flights non-changeable? If so, did you include a statement from Westjet? If they were changeable, I think Carnival might only reimburse documented change fees. Maybe.

[Kevin135i]

33 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Were you flights non-changeable? If so, did you include a statement from Westjet? If they were changeable, I think Carnival might only reimburse documented change fees. Maybe.

Yeah they were final sales, and Carnival approved the reimbursement. They were extremely helpful and cooperative. It's the part after that with the mailing of the cheque that seems to become suspicious 

[txcruiser1234]

Not sure how much time has gone by... and this is a long shot idea.. but could you request (using your existing email thread to provide the context and  explanation) an address change back to your correct address, have that second check cancelled and issue you a third correct check? You may, at least, find out if that second check was cashed in the process.. in which case you would know for sure it was a case of fraud...

[txcruiser1234]

a couple other long shot ideas...

 

it sounds like you could really benefit from an actual conversation with someone in the department that handled the issuing of the checks...

 

1) maybe John Heald or his assistant could provide you a relevant phone contact if you briefly explained the reason why...

 

2) you could try an end-around on LinkedIn... hundreds of Carnival employees listed there and I saw at least a couple refund related titles in a brief search... chances are extremely low that you could find someone directly to help you, but the idea is just to find someone who can give you the phone contact of someone who can help you...

[PrincessPatti]

12 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

To me it sounds like you are communicating with a company fraudulently pretending to be carnival.

100% this.  I am sorry to tell you, but you have been scammed.  All the time, scammers send checks to people hoping they will cash them.  When they do, the scammers get your bank information, cancel the check, and then completely empty your bank account.  I would be vigilant in checking your bank accounts each day.  

 

As for the emails, they may look legit, but sometimes, scammers create fake email addresses and replace certain parts of email addresses hoping people won’t notice.  Look on-line for phishing scams and see how people think it is coming from a legit email, but it is not.  What telephone number are you calling?  Is it one provided in the email from “Carnival” about the reimbursement, or is it from Carnival’s actual web page?  Some phishers will even create a web page that looks like the legit one, and will email you a link to their fake web site so you think it is real.  You click on the link, and you are in their web site and give them all kinds of information.  

 

I don’t know how these people got your information, but they did.  Maybe someone hacked into Carnival, Westjet, or however you booked this (travel agent).  As the other poster stated, Carnival is refusing to reimburse them for airfare, so you have definitely been scammed.  The broken language in their message to you is even more of a tip off.  I am sorry to be such a downer and give you this information, but you should be contacting the police to file a report.  They may tell you there is nothing they can do, but at least you will have a police report on file in case anything else happens (emptying your bank account).

 

Unfortunately, scammers and phishers are very good at what they do.  

Edited February 20 by PrincessPatti

[mz-s]

Yeah I would send a message to JH on his Facebook page - he will forward your issue on to someone who can help. Calling the general 1-800 number or emails are easy to ignore or get misdirected.

[TravelE]

I experienced an issue with employee fraud after sailing on the Carnival Venezia last year. My credit card on file was used to pay for another guest's Sail & Sign account for a cruise that occurred 2 weeks after I disembarked. It was an ordeal to work with Carnival Guest Care and my credit card company to try to fix it. I finally sent a very detailed Executive email listing exactly what happened and the supporting documentation. It got handled within 24 hours.

 

The messaging feature is disabled and I don't want to post email addresses here. Let me know if there is a way to get it to you.

 

[Kevin135i]

8 hours ago, PrincessPatti said:

100% this.  I am sorry to tell you, but you have been scammed.  All the time, scammers send checks to people hoping they will cash them.  When they do, the scammers get your bank information, cancel the check, and then completely empty your bank account.  I would be vigilant in checking your bank accounts each day.  

 

As for the emails, they may look legit, but sometimes, scammers create fake email addresses and replace certain parts of email addresses hoping people won’t notice.  Look on-line for phishing scams and see how people think it is coming from a legit email, but it is not.  What telephone number are you calling?  Is it one provided in the email from “Carnival” about the reimbursement, or is it from Carnival’s actual web page?  Some phishers will even create a web page that looks like the legit one, and will email you a link to their fake web site so you think it is real.  You click on the link, and you are in their web site and give them all kinds of information.  

 

I don’t know how these people got your information, but they did.  Maybe someone hacked into Carnival, Westjet, or however you booked this (travel agent).  As the other poster stated, Carnival is refusing to reimburse them for airfare, so you have definitely been scammed.  The broken language in their message to you is even more of a tip off.  I am sorry to be such a downer and give you this information, but you should be contacting the police to file a report.  They may tell you there is nothing they can do, but at least you will have a police report on file in case anything else happens (emptying your bank account).

 

Unfortunately, scammers and phishers are very good at what they do.  

 

Honestly, I think you're onto something.

Originally the contact was made via phone call after Carnival sent out the Mass-Email regarding the cancellation and the mechanic issues on Panorama. This was when we reached out to them. The phone number was in that email and it matches the one on their official website. They then emailed us regarding the steps required to process the refund. That's the email we been corresponding with and as far as I know, it's legit since it also matches their emails on the website.

Due to that, I'm thinking their system is compromised and that someone managed to get in and took over one of their account(s). We triple checked the email and all the email between us back and forth also cc'ed every carnival guest related email addresses. So it's not just 1 email recipient, there's multiple ppl involved in the emails, hence why we ruled out the phishing scam part. As a matter of fact, their initial email included information like our names, booking number and incident number, which a scammer wouldn't have without us telling them it first. So this leads me to believe that if there is a scam/fraud attempt, they're definitely internal staff doing it.

 

You're right though, scammers knows what they are doing and are quite resourceful, so regardless of how or when they managed to get in. If, that is truly the case, they clearly managed to do so successfully. So far so good on our banking, we called to check today and informed them of the potential threat(s) and they have confirmed that no random transactions or attempt of transaction has been made. 

 

As for reimbursing the airfares, the email they sent out did include information about how "eligible guests" can submit a request for refund for their flights. We have traveling companions who got their refund successfully. So I'm not sure why some guests are being denied of such refunds when Carnival themselves offered it. 

We called Carnival again (another different agent answered) yesterday and they can confirm that based on our file number, a cheque was mailed out and approved, and they can also see the "request of change of address", but the odd part is they are unable to open up the request to see which agent handled it or see any further information about it. Now THAT'S the part that makes absolutely no sense to me. Part of this seems fully legitimate, but part of it sounds almost like an organized internal fraud thing. It's very frustrating and confusing.

[Kevin135i]

5 hours ago, TravelE said:

I experienced an issue with employee fraud after sailing on the Carnival Venezia last year. My credit card on file was used to pay for another guest's Sail & Sign account for a cruise that occurred 2 weeks after I disembarked. It was an ordeal to work with Carnival Guest Care and my credit card company to try to fix it. I finally sent a very detailed Executive email listing exactly what happened and the supporting documentation. It got handled within 24 hours.

 

The messaging feature is disabled and I don't want to post email addresses here. Let me know if there is a way to get it to you.

 

 

Why is message disabled? I never even noticed.

Maybe via Discord - Kevin135i

Instagram - Kh.viet86

[Gamecock_Cruiser]

In Yor County, SC, the solicitor doesn't play with bad checks. Contact your county solicitor bad check unit and see if they can do anything.