Crown Princess Incident

[parrotthead]

How very scarey for everyone onboard! ( I was unaware of this situation untill today and was wondering why I could not even get the CC boards to respond last night...now I know)

My first thought upon hearing the news this morning on the radio was " I wonder how many CruiseCritic posters are onboard and are they ok"..(funny how the internet makes you think about people you have never actually met and people that live countries away)...

I am relieved to hear that the CC'ers that are generally OK... our thoughts are with all of you:)

[coiran]

It actually does not take a huge list to cause the kind of damage described - or to cause you to fall out of bed - especially if you were on one of the upper decks. To illustrate my point, take a pen or pencil and stand it on its point while holding your finger on the top. Start tilting it (so the point stays in the same place). The shaft near the point (the lower decks) is not that displaced. Your finger at the top, though, (the upper decks) is much more displaced from center...it's the same degree list all the way up and down... but the higher you go, the more you feel it and the more it affects you. 15-20 degrees could absolutely knock you out of bed if you were *not* on the lower decks. If it had been 38-40 degrees, some people up top probably would have gone overboard.

 

Also, I remember an expert article on cruise ship design, and they are designed to right themselves even if they get almost on their sides (which is well more than 45 degrees).

 

Good analogy - the degrees are the same, but the displacement (distance moved) the higher you are the greater - 15 degrees is quite a bit when you are 100 feet from the CG.

 

Ron

[rolloman]

It was definately more than 15 degrees...15 degrees would not have caused me to slide straight out of my bed into my door and fall into the hallway...

 

So you make a habit of laying on your bed with your cabin door open? The doors are very secure so dont come back with another pinnochio type statement that it flew open.

[Merion_Mom]

You guys post faster than I fly!

 

Fortunately, my trip home as almost painless.

 

I stepped off the Crown Princess a few minutes before 7 a.m. For the first time in my cruising life, the staff KEPT my sea pass after they boinked me out for the final time. I asked, and they said, Yes, This time we are keeping them.

 

As I set foot on the pier, for the first time since the list, I cried. It just felt so wrong to be leaving the Crown Princess like this.

 

I trudged to the waiting busses. Yes, Princess had arranged for an unending stream of transportation. They had hired a local tour company to supervise and shepherd the passengers. As you approached the area, one of them asked when your flight was, and which airline. You were then directed to the appropriate bus or van. CNN vultures were standing there with cameras, calling out, "Do you have anything you'd like to say or share?"" ptui.

 

My bus pulled out about 15 minutes later and drove straight to MCO. A porter got my stuff, and we trudged through an empty lower level. He helped me get my bags to a ticket agent.

 

Contrary to what someone said a couple of pages back - KRYOS - fares were NOT jacked up and we got a very fair fare for a last minute one-way flight to Philadelphia - about $165.

 

Some of you know my vow never to fly USAir again. Well, I'm glad that I took this chance. The kind ticket agent took a look at my three bags to be checked. (Remember, I had driven to the port; I had NO issues of airline rules to deal with. I had lent a carry-on bag to Nancy, because she didn't have one, and now I had to take it home with me, because she was flying directly home to Michigan.) He asked me if I could fit my purse into the rolling backpack. When I said yes, he let me call my rolling backpack my PURSE and my carryon was my carryon.

 

Unfortunately, I hadn't given any forethought to what I was throwing in which case. I had some forbidden items in my carryon. (which wouldn't have been an issue if we had sailed back to NY and I had gotten into my waiting limo/shuttle!)

 

They confiscated a penknife, one of those 10-in-1 tool thingies, and my corkscrew, which was BRAND NEW (and I hadn't even needed on this cruise).

 

Worse, they searched EVERYTHING. We think that it was because we had one-way tickets. That always raises the TSA's antennae.

 

As this guy was searching my blue bag, I saw my earrings (that I had been looking for) fall out of the pocket of the skirt that I had been wearing yesterday. I reached for them saying "Oh, there they are!" HE SMACKED MY HAND and told me NOT TO TOUCH ANYTHING. Then I started to cry, and he let me have my friggin' earrings. He even stopped snarling.

 

They searched the blue carryon, they searched the red rolling backpack, they searched my purse, they held up my damn keys and said, "what are these"? They made me take my shoes off and wanded me AND felt me up, every limb and every external body part.

 

They held up my pill box (I take allegra daily for allergies) and asked "the boss" if he wanted to inspect it himself more carefully.

 

They finally let me go to the Gate.

 

It was all of 8:20 by now. I had not slept at all. I basically tossed and turned and kept looking at the clock all night. I think that I cried as much because of emotion as because of lack of sleep.

 

The plane left on time at 10:35. The flight was smooth and fast. I got a window seat, with no one in the middle seat. We arrived on time. I was very grateful that this painful and unanticipated end of my cruise was as easy as it was.

 

The bags came out fairly promptly, and our shuttle driver came immediately, and took me straight home. My daughter fetched me at the pickup point. I was in my house by 2:45.

[jnnifer01]

Thanks for the info, MattInFLL- that's a great way to think about it.

[Merion_Mom]

It was definately more than 15 degrees...15 degrees would not have caused me to slide straight out of my bed into my door and fall into the hallway...

 

So you make a habit of laying on your bed with your cabin door open? The doors are very secure so dont come back with another pinnochio type statement that it flew open.

rolloman, this thread, and others from actual Crown Princess/Cruise Critic cruisers has been quite civilized.

 

Your post is totally out of line, and if you say one more nasty thing to my friend Mindy, I will indeed retaliate in kind.

 

I'm tired, and am typing whatever the heck I feel like without regard to board rules and guidelines, but you are just WRONG and BAD to do this.

[wookie]

FYI for any one interested, but if you look at this link

http://www.safereuroro.org/presentations/SAFER_EURORO_II-Open_Day_GBS-January_2005-Fincantieri.pdf

 

On page 9 you will find an example chart of cruise ship Righting Lever Vs Heel angle. You can see that at 45 Deg the Righting Lever goes to Zero. This is the point where the ship will capsize if this angle of heel is exceeded.

 

This is from a presentation put on by "Fincantieri" the builders of the Crown Princess

[losuds63]

Iam very releived that anyone hurt on the Crown will be OK! Also I was concerned for that the little girl 5yrs old if you didnt hear that fractured her femur and glad she will be ok --That was scary for any parent to see a child get hurt like that on Vacation ,but in life no matter where you go , it can turn some curveballs in anyones path at any time and good thing everyone on the Crown will be around to tell their tale.....And thats all I have to say about that!!:)

 

This type of thing happens sometimes to these sophisticated Vessels ,mostly run by computers but they serve 3 great reasons to build them and that is to give us some pleasurable entertainment and to create jobs and make the owners very rich!

 

Looking foward to giving the Princess cruise line my buisness Andy

__________________

[Merion_Mom]

Nancy, I'm so glad you and Carol are okay and now I understand the phone message I received from your husband. I didn't get it until after tonight's baseball game so had no clue until very late what was going on. I'll be in touch with him and will try to call you on your cell tomorrow to see if there's anything I can do to help. You, Carol and everyone aboard ship please stay calm and be safe.

 

All of you are in my thoughts.

Mir, Nancy just KNEW that baseball must be involved when she couldn't reach you!

[jfrenaye]

OK now that the dust has settled. I am dumbfounded by the mob mentality of people in general. I saw it in MSY after Katrina and hell, I even see it here on this opulent ship.

 

People stealing other peoples' pictures. Comments about making sure they put you up in a first class hotel. Massaging portfolios to maximize profit. Class action suits. Wonder if anyone grabbed some casino chips?

 

What has our world come to? Sometimes, humans really disgust me!

 

However, I am glad that all on board are getting the medical attention they need, or are on their way home!

[FunshineBear]

This is an update to my previous post.

 

I've since spoken to my sister and later last night they were trying to arrange for flights and such. They're having shuttles go from the pier to MCO for the people flying home.

 

I'm assuming there's alot since the cruise was out of Brooklyn and most of the passengers are from NY, NJ or surrounding areas that expected to be cruised back.

 

But since this 'announcement' was made later(that princess was trying to arrange flights) after people had tried to make their own plane arrangements and all, it seems a Carnival rep had said to my sister and her husband (once told that they made their own arrangements) that they were trying to get all the passengers on a Princess flight (whatever that is, I'm guessing a charter) and that their own arrangements might not be ok. Just seemed nervy. What did they expect, people to wait hours to find out if Princess would arrange something? Especially with the mad dash to the internet cafe to find out flights.

 

I doubt Princess is going to be able to get enough planes to get ALL those people home on their own. But more power to them.

 

One a slightly different note: Why do they keep using this faulty computer navigation if its obviously a problem? Do the HAL ships (The Westerdam class) use the same system since they're all under Carnivals umbrella?

 

Maybe Princess should have like the luckiest person on earth christen their next ship. Couldn't hurt :)

[GMoney]

Glad you are home safe and sound Carol. Thanks for keeping us all informed and entertained. Get some rest!

[Merion_Mom]

Carol, It has been my experience that the photogs keep the originals (digital files) If you are truly wanting those pics and someone took them all (Which is absolutely HORRIBLE of anyone to do!) Try getting hold of them, before you leave, or get their land based number/web address. You can sometimes get copies made (I have done it on Cunard after the fact) The hardest part is identifying your photos. Karie

Karie, and everyone else who posted concern and advice about our pictures:

 

GOOD NEWS! Nancy called me while I was waiting at MCO and told me that a couple of our CC friends had found our photos (no details at all; I can't wait to hear the story myself!) and that she now has them and will send me half when she gets home!

 

When we were looking and investigating, one of our CD staff friends, Jacinta, called and WOKE UP the head of photography. S/He said that if they were gone, they were gone. The equipment was damaged in the list, and s/he didn't think that it would be possible to get any more pictures.

 

We are VERY happy that Fran and Don found 'em, somewhere! ;)

[wrp96]

rolloman, this thread, and others from actual Crown Princess/Cruise Critic cruisers has been quite civilized.

 

Your post is totally out of line, and if you say one more nasty thing to my friend Mindy, I will indeed retaliate in kind.

 

I'm tired, and am typing whatever the heck I feel like without regard to board rules and guidelines, but you are just WRONG and BAD to do this.

 

Carol, the rest of us will back you up.

[bjcanady]

Look at this local paper:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/

 

Call me superstitious too, but I also find this interesting....wasn't Andy Procter the Grand's captain in February with the turn/tilt?? I also thought about the fuel incident last week and Martha Stewart christening the ship.

 

I hope we REALLY find the truth to what went wrong.

 

Captain Andy Proctor is a fabulous master of the ship as well as the rest of the crew.........accidents happen...........please don't start pointing fingers, it simply is not fair............

[mbisson]

People tend to WAY over estimate degrees of slope.

 

Here in Colorado we have 7% grades and that is STEEP. You definately would roll out of bed at double that.

.

 

I've been trying to point that out in some other postings, but no one really wants to hear it. The Norwegian Sky listed 8-8.5 degrees in '01 when we were one it and caused much the same sort of damage and injuries, water came out of the pool and went down stairwells, food slid off tables, gift shops were wrecked, booze fell off shelves in bars, lots of broken glass, one young girl was pinned by a video machine that fell on her in the arcade, a person in a wheel chair shot across the pool deck during the list, TV's came off shelves in staterooms, we even had a person who said that the water level outside their stateroom came over the top of their window (which surprised me since the balconies on lower decks (same side of ship) didn't get wet ;) ) etc. But often the truth isn't as dramatic (especially when the media gets involved)

 

If the list does turn out to be 15 degrees (as some state) I'm shocked that the injury totals aren't much higher. BTW-the initial estimates from the CG on the Sky were also in the 15 degree range, it took a couple weeks before they even settled on 8-8.5 degrees and several months before they had completed the investigation and decided it was the autopilot that had gone bad.

 

Let's all be grateful that more weren't hurt and the injuries weren't worse.

 

jmo

-Monte

[zotzer]

Carol,

I am so happy that you are home safe and sound! Just yesterday, I spent a fair amount of my day catching up on your antics on the Crown, only to get home and see a snippet on the news. How relieved I was to finally get on (a very busy) CC, and find a post from you and Nancy!!

 

It must seem very surreal right now. I sure hope you have a drink in your hand when you read this, and that you get some well-deserved sleep... home safe and sound in your own bed.

 

much love!

T

[MaryPoppinz]

so you make a habit of laying on your bed with your cabin door open? The doors are very secure so dont come back with another pinnochio type statement that it flew open.

 

Would you feel a bit silly if Mindy were referring to being tossed into the hallway between the bedroom and the cabin door, rather than the corridor beyond the cabin door? I'm sure she is.

 

My best to everyone involved.

[Merion_Mom]

The 11:00 news just showed everyone getting off the ship. I am sure it was a very frightening experience. To all the passengers, you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Very few people got off the ship last night - just those who needed medical attention, I believe, and perhaps a few others.

 

They had to get rid of some stuff - any food was free, even if there had been a charge before.

 

Open bar all evening. At the bars, in the dining room. Nothing frou-frou, but if you wanted a soda, you got it. If you wanted wine with dinner, you got it. (I had brought ours) No money exchanged hands last night, except for casino payouts and refunds TO the passengers.

 

To the person who asked about behavior of passengers in the casino after the list: certainly it is theoretically possible to pocket chips. I have no idea if anyone did it.

 

About the TVs; I think that they ARE bolted down (to a swiveling platform which in turn is bolted to the cabinet) on Royal Caribbean. I agree; foolish of Princess to have overlooked this.

 

I'm glad it appears everyone is going to be o.k. This had to be a truly horrifying event, I cant even imagine what it must have felt like. And at the same time, strangers were helping strangers, with the passengers and crew giving first-aid after the accident. Makes me feel a little bit better.

Yes, almost everyone was VERY friendly and kind to one another. You can feel quite bonded to people who have the same near-death experience that you do. :rolleyes:

 

 

Re: The little girl and the fractured femur: the real problem was that the femoral artery was damaged. That is what made the situation critical. (I think that I stated that correctly. If not, I apologize for incorrect terminology)

 

jfrenaye: you are being harsh and judgmental about others whom you criticize for being harsh and judgmental. Do people make mistakes? Yes, of course, but is it YOUR job to decide what tone someone is using on this board? If someone believes that Princess owes him a good meal, who are you to call that *disgusting*?

 

No one said that anyone DID steal casino chips. A question was asked. Stop making sweeping statements about the morals of mythical people.

 

And if people find the discussion of the ups and downs of corporate profits and stock prices, why do you care?

 

I saw no "mob mentality" ON the ship (oh, I'm sorry, were YOU THERE?????), and saw no one on this thread referring to mob mentality, EXCEPT YOU.

 

Many thanks to all of the constructive posters, and of course to those who express heartfelt sympathy and concern.

[hstrybuf]

Carol, Nancy and doggfan, thanks so much for reporting in! I tried to get on last night, but CC was in gridlock because everyone was trying to get on. I'm glad to hear that you're all okay and sending you big hugs! Glad to see also that your sense of humor remained intact! :)

[nealthedeal]

So glad to hear that little girl & everyone ok no fatallites wow could have been a real disaster had the ship been further out glad all are safe & ok I am sorry but princess has bad luck & I will avoid them!! :eek:

[Ocean Boy]

Merion Mom....

 

Welcome home. I'm glad you're safe and that the process of getting home wasn't too painful.

 

O.B.

[TexasMom2]

It was definately more than 15 degrees...15 degrees would not have caused me to slide straight out of my bed into my door and fall into the hallway...

 

So you make a habit of laying on your bed with your cabin door open? The doors are very secure so dont come back with another pinnochio type statement that it flew open.

 

That has got to be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. Of course she mean the hallway in the cabin in front of the bathroom and leading to the door, and not the passageway.

[nealthedeal]

:) glad all is ok!

[Merion_Mom]

I've been trying to point that out in some other postings, but no one really wants to hear it. The Norwegian Sky listed 8-8.5 degrees in '01 when we were one it and caused much the same sort of damage and injuries, water came out of the pool and went down stairwells, food slid off tables, gift shops were wrecked, booze fell off shelves in bars, lots of broken glass, one young girl was pinned by a video machine that fell on her in the arcade, a person in a wheel chair shot across the pool deck during the list, TV's came off shelves in staterooms, we even had a person who said that the water level outside their stateroom came over the top of their window (which surprised me since the balconies on lower decks (same side of ship) didn't get wet ;) ) etc. But often the truth isn't as dramatic (especially when the media gets involved)

 

If the list does turn out to be 15 degrees (as some state) I'm shocked that the injury totals aren't much higher. BTW-the initial estimates from the CG on the Sky were also in the 15 degree range, it took a couple weeks before they even settled on 8-8.5 degrees and several months before they had completed the investigation and decided it was the autopilot that had gone bad.

 

Let's all be grateful that more weren't hurt and the injuries weren't worse.

 

jmo

-Monte

Monte, most if not all of the water that was INSIDE the ship doing the damage came from the POOLS, not from the sea. People on our cruise reliably (I know them and vouch for their reliablity) reported seeing water COVER the windows on Deck 6, as the ship dipped, i.e., below the surface level of the sea.

 

As for the injury totals, well, we were talking about that. I think that is was pure dumb luck. Tuesday was our final port day. It followed a sea day. About 900 of the 3000+ passengers were all on the Kennedy Space Center excursion. For that, you had to be in the Princess theatre at 6:50 a.m. We saw several movies, read and looked at exhibits, did some walking, then came back hungry & attacked the buffet. Then many of us then went to our cabins to nap! I think that there was a higher than usual number of people in their cabins. There were few injuries to people who were just in their cabins.