Crown Princess Incident

[kryos]

A PHD from MIT? I think you need to ask for a refund, at least for the English classes.....well, probably for the Economics classes too.

 

Certainly it has not been a banner year for Princess, with the Star fire and now this. But, Princess survived the Star situation, the ship was repaired and is now back to earning money. Will this put a bit of a dent in Princess' pocketbook? A little, but they have a thing called INSURANCE for these kind of situations.

Why are you criticizing him? I think the advice he gave was prudent. Sure, this is a major tragedy and I, too, will keep the injured in my prayers ... but reality remains reality and Princess is going to take a beating over this.

 

True, insurance will cover the injuries and the damage to the ship ... but insurance can't cover the damage to the cruise line in terms of public confidence. Two major incidents so far this year ... most other cruise lines haven't even had a minor incident. If I had a Princess cruise booked right about now, to be honest I'd be giving serious consideration to cancelling it and booking on another line. True, an incident like this maybe can happen on any line ... but the fact of the matter is that it occurred on Princess ... and was probably something that could have been prevented or perhaps minimized if certain actions had been taken. Both of the Princess incidents could very well be the result of a lack of proper personnel or personnel training. That fire could have very, very easily been prevented if Princess had posted proper security watches. This incident maybe could have been prevented by better inspections or crew training. Makes me wonder about the quality of Princess' personnel ... and I'm sure that many others may be wondering the same. Not saying necessarily that there is a personnel or training issue ... just saying that people are gonna be wondering about it and perhaps rebooking future Princess cruises because of those "wonderings."

 

I would imagine stuff like this makes people think twice about cruising ... gee, maybe it's not as safe as people are making it out to be. Seems the cruise industry has been in the news a lot lately ... and not for "flattering" things. So, while the cruise industry will take another hit for this ... probably with a larger number than normal of cancellations for future booked cruises on all lines, and Princess in particular is gonna see a far greater than normal number of future bookings being cancelled. Some of those passengers will book on other lines, while some others will opt for what they deem to be much safer, land-based vacations. Either way, Carnival Corporation is gonna lose money ... lots of money ... since cancelled bookings either won't be rebooked at all, while some may be booked on lines not in the Carnival family of brands.

 

And ... I'm not even going to start estimating the potential law suits that are going to be coming out of this. Those could run easily in the tens of millions ... especially for those passengers seriously injured.

 

So, no ... I don't think the MIT guy's post was off the mark at all. I think he was offering some sage advice to investors who may have some of their money tied up in Carnival stock. Personally, I'd be worrying about those investments myself if I had them and would have posted the same advice if I were in his position.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Shogun]

Hi Folks,,

 

Have seen nothing on news here in UK about Crown, watched live feed last night on internet of ship as medics went on board etc.

 

Was on Grand a few weeks ago did not know about problem in Feb.

 

Was looking to go on Crown in Sept this year.

 

Will still book, just hope Princess fixes this problem.

 

Any word on the captain of the ship, I assume the pressure the man must have been under would have been massive.

 

Hope all passengers get home as quickly as possible.

 

Thank you to all on ship for information.

 

yours Shogun

[MattInFLL]

Actually, the true economic advice would be to look for an opportunity to *buy* Carnival stock if it takes a dip due to this. Carnival is huge, and getting huger - and with, what? 100 or more ships now or soon in operation? If there is any effect on the stock due to this, it will be a blip. But why is this even a topic of discussion at this point, in this thread?

 

But any way, I am curious from Doggfan or Carol - can you estimate how long it took for the ship to right itself? I am sure it felt like an eternity, but has there been an estimate? (I was in the '94 Northridge (CA) earthquake, and those were the longest and scariest 26 seconds of my life.)

 

Also my understanding is that ships are designed to go almost completely on their side and still right themselves. The thing is that even a 12 degree list would feel like the ship was tipping over, especially on the upper decks where the effect is more pronounced. It doesn't take much of a list to cause a lot of panic and damage on a modern cruise ship, because the most popular areas of the ship are now 9-13 decks above the ocean.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with all those affected!

[Dspcentury]

Nancy and to everyone who sailed the Crown Princess.........

I am sorry to hear about this experience especially on a new ship. I am hoping that you all are out of harms way and are safely headed home.

My prayers go out to all. I also want to say that I wanted to post earlier but I had trouble getting on to this website. I guess there were also many cruisers who felt the way that I do.

 

David.....................................:cool:

[TinaLee]

Add my thoughts and prayers as well, and if there is anything I can do from here in Orlando, PLEASE contact me and let me know. I work at home, and can drop everything and be at the coast in an hour if there is anything I can do to help.

 

BTW Nancy and Carol (and Cruise Critic) - you were a bit of a news sensation around here last night, as your earlier posts to this thread were being read by at least 2 of the different local news agencies on the air. They didn't mention your names, but having read the thread before the board had a nervous breakdown, I knew they were yours. You are celebrity bloggers!

 

I hope everyone gets home safe and sound... and that all those waiting to leave soon have patience while they sort through all of this and try to make it safe for you sail on her.

[Goldryder]

For an idea of the sort of internal damage done, take a look at these photos from the Grand Princess after she had her listing session back on February 4th 2006 two hours after leaving Galveston. She was travelling at 21 knots and did a sharp turn, sharper than normal and quoted as being a steering fault at the time, and she made an 18.5 degree list that was enough to throw televisions etc all over the place...as per the photos on the link below.

 

 

 

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/GPList.html

[kryos]

Actually, the true economic advice would be to look for an opportunity to *buy* Carnival stock if it takes a dip due to this.

Absolutely! The dip will only be temporary. I think the other poster was advising people who currently hold Carnival stock to dump it before it goes too low.

 

I'll be honest ... not trying to be mercenary here, but as soon as I get home from work this morning I plan to plug Carnival Corporation into my WizeTrade software and see when the red lights start turning green so that I can possibly pick up a block of it. I'd be very shocked it the value didn't fall steadily down over the next several weeks. Could pick up a nice bargain before it rallies.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[madelinerose]

Thank God!

 

So glad to hear you and Nancy are hanging in there and I'm absolutely sure you thoroughly enjoyed the wine. ;)

 

Too bad about the photos. Have a safe trip home and check in when you can.

 

 

Karen

Baltimore

 

I just talked to the ER nurse who was helping out in the medical facility, and she said that the little girl is going to be fine. She was cut, and it hit an artery. They stabilized her and she should be ok after treatment.

[Cindy]

My prayers go out to everyone on the Crown right now. I'm so sorry this happened, and wish all of you a safe trip home.

[Goldryder]

Flying home could be the best option for anyone sailing from Florida to New York at the moment. Tropical Storm Beryl is whipping up things on that route and doesn't look like she is ready to calm down either for a while to come.

[joew]

I was on the Grand Pricess back in Feb, when the ship did a 180 degree turn at full speed and did a massive tilt with injuries and flying glass, people etc. It seems that the Princess line is trying very hard to roll one of its ships over. In our case the ship did not reutrn to port and therefore we could not get off. If any attorney on board this ship is going to file a class action, please include us from the other cruise as Princess has not even sent a note about what they did to us.

Joe

[superjerryw]

I just found out about the incident on the Crown Princess. Glad to hear that NLiedel and Merion Mom that I deal with all the time on the RCCL board are OK. Hope all of our other Cruise Critic friends on the ship as well as the other passengers get through this OK as well...

[Cindy]

Just a couple thoughts...

I read Carol/Nancy (not sure which one posted this information) said the captain sounded very shaken up after the incident. I believe Captain Andy Proctor is in charge right now. He is very experienced. I have sailed twice with "Captain Andy," and always felt I was in good hands. The list must have been extremely unexpected and scary to "shake up" a seasoned veteran such as the captain.

I've also read a lot of comparisons to the list on the Grand back in February. These incidents seem to have two different causes with similar outcomes. In February, I read the tilt was caused by the ship making a sharp turn at cruising speed. The list on the Crown happened when the ship was on autopilot. I wonder if now with 2 incidents on 2 ships within a few months if there will be a closer look at the cause(s) of the list on the Grand as well as the Crown. It could be just a fluke, but the incidents are so similar it makes me wonder if there's a design flaw with the stabilizers or rudder system.

Oh well, I know nothing about ship engineering or design. Just hoping Princess can get to the bottom of this, and if there is a design flaw, make the needed modifications.

[London, Canada]

Here is the link

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/story/3597978p-4159043c.html

[kayguz]

I was also on the Grand in February- my heart goes out to those on the Crown. Fortunately, on our cruise, there were not a ton of kids. I am shocked that Princess didn't learn from the Grand incident that those tv's need to be bolted down! I did go on another cruise- Mariner of the Seas- in May and found myself a bit nervous each time we leaned and it took more than a second or two to upright. I think the feeling will stay with you forever. I hope that some of those on the Crown will return to cruising and are able to put the experience behind them after some time has passed.

 

I am very curious to see if we hear final conclusions about this and the Grand incident to see if they are related. We were told immediately that we had made an emergency turn to head back to port for medical emergency. That made us feel like it was human error in calculations or programming, not an actual mechanical error of the ship. I will say that if we had gotten all the way back to port (and not dropped off the injured and sick with the coast guard) it would have been quite the feat to get me to remain onboard. I did, though, and enjoyed the trip, but the nerves were fried for quite some time.

 

Prayers to all,

Kay

[Lisa63]

Thank you to all who are taking the time to provide first-hand accounts. My thoughts and prayers are with you all.

[Boo's Mom]

How long did the ship list....before recovering?

 

I haven't seen that information anywhere...

 

I am so proud of the ship's crew...as I hear the initial, positive reports of how they responded.

This is something that I thought about 2 weeks ago...while participating in the lifeboat drill onboard the Constellation. We know they are drilled frequently, but how will they respond in an actual emergency. I saw one Connie staff member get very serious about his instructions...and I was pleased with that.

[Host CJSKIDS]

I'm so glad to hear that you are all okay. I know that there is nothing more terrifying that a sudden tragedy while cruising and it's hard to wrap your mind around it. It just seems surreal when you go over it in your mind later on.

 

If anybody needs anything, my offer for help is still out there. I'm about 4 hours away, but I will do anything that is needed.

 

I do want to give a warning out there for those of you who are booking your own passage home, it will be a while, months until you get reimbursed by Princess for your expenses. There are people from our 3/19 Star sailing who have yet to be reimbursed and it took me over 3 months. For anyone who has a situation where money is a bit tight, then sit tight and allow Princess to make all of your travel arrangements for you. The refund for your cruise will go back onto your credit card that you paid and should only take a few weeks to hit. HOpefully Princess learned some lessons in dealing with an emergency situation and handles things more efficiently this time around.

 

Good luck and hope you are all continuing to do well.

 

Carolyn

[patval]

A PHD from MIT? I think you need to ask for a refund, at least for the English classes.....well, probably for the Economics classes too.

 

Certainly it has not been a banner year for Princess, with the Star fire and now this. But, Princess survived the Star situation, the ship was repaired and is now back to earning money. Will this put a bit of a dent in Princess' pocketbook? A little, but they have a thing called INSURANCE for these kind of situations. Insurance to cover injured passengers, and insurance to cover loss of income, and insurance to cover damage to the ship. And, if this turns out to be a defect in the ship, the builder is going to face some of the liability as well as Princess. The biggest damage Princess will suffer from this is to thier reputation, especially as it so closely follows the Star fire. So, not a great day for Princess, but not time to watch for falling chunks of sky, either. I am on one of thier ships next week, and I am not too worried about them filing bankruptcy in the middle of my cruise.

MD

 

I think my point was lost and I apologize for the spelling errors maybe CC should install a spell checker and in this age about everyone gets lazy on there spelling because the computer will fix it in the end. Sorry for the bad habit of assuming the computer will fix it. I know the insurance will cover everything Princess is out but this all means there premium will go up and Princess might want to pay instead of filing a claim on this accident like some people do when they get into car accidents or personal injury cases.

 

I do not mean anything about Chapter 7,11, or 13 going on here because of how huge Carnival is but I do remeber in the past that NCL stock dropped after the rogue wave because of the incident and the numbers for that quarter were down a couple of cents per share then what analysts predicited. Also I do not know why but if memory serves me right the same problem happen to the RCCL corporation that they lost a ton of money in a quarter and the stock price dropped but unsure about what the incident was or what was the cause of it.

 

 

So again for me putting my two cents in because I knew I would be flamed for saying this even though I study the markets 24/7. :eek::eek::eek:

 

Paul

[patval]

Why are you criticizing him? I think the advice he gave was prudent. Sure, this is a major tragedy and I, too, will keep the injured in my prayers ... but reality remains reality and Princess is going to take a beating over this.

 

True, insurance will cover the injuries and the damage to the ship ... but insurance can't cover the damage to the cruise line in terms of public confidence. Two major incidents so far this year ... most other cruise lines haven't even had a minor incident. If I had a Princess cruise booked right about now, to be honest I'd be giving serious consideration to cancelling it and booking on another line. True, an incident like this maybe can happen on any line ... but the fact of the matter is that it occurred on Princess ... and was probably something that could have been prevented or perhaps minimized if certain actions had been taken. Both of the Princess incidents could very well be the result of a lack of proper personnel or personnel training. That fire could have very, very easily been prevented if Princess had posted proper security watches. This incident maybe could have been prevented by better inspections or crew training. Makes me wonder about the quality of Princess' personnel ... and I'm sure that many others may be wondering the same. Not saying necessarily that there is a personnel or training issue ... just saying that people are gonna be wondering about it and perhaps rebooking future Princess cruises because of those "wonderings."

 

I would imagine stuff like this makes people think twice about cruising ... gee, maybe it's not as safe as people are making it out to be. Seems the cruise industry has been in the news a lot lately ... and not for "flattering" things. So, while the cruise industry will take another hit for this ... probably with a larger number than normal of cancellations for future booked cruises on all lines, and Princess in particular is gonna see a far greater than normal number of future bookings being cancelled. Some of those passengers will book on other lines, while some others will opt for what they deem to be much safer, land-based vacations. Either way, Carnival Corporation is gonna lose money ... lots of money ... since cancelled bookings either won't be rebooked at all, while some may be booked on lines not in the Carnival family of brands.

 

And ... I'm not even going to start estimating the potential law suits that are going to be coming out of this. Those could run easily in the tens of millions ... especially for those passengers seriously injured.

 

So, no ... I don't think the MIT guy's post was off the mark at all. I think he was offering some sage advice to investors who may have some of their money tied up in Carnival stock. Personally, I'd be worrying about those investments myself if I had them and would have posted the same advice if I were in his position.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Rita thank you for understadning my point and what the meaning of it was.

 

 

Paul

[LETSGOCRUSIN]

Very happy to hear that the ship got into Port. That is a blessing in itself.

 

Thanks for all the first hand reports.

 

My prayers and thoughts go out to all the families involved

[Guest nhrich]

It's good to see that the casualties were not worse than they actually were. I feel terrible for those who were injured and the rest on board who had their vacations spoiled.

 

Paul, not only is Princess' insurance available, but there may be some recourse against the shipbuilder and/or equipment manufacturer of the failed component. I don't think you'll see CCL stock take more than a 3 or 4 cent per share hit to earnings.

[alw1977]

Just saw a "Today" show interview with a honeymoon couple who was on board the Crown yesterday. The husband said he was between the 6th and 7th decks (going to inquire about booking a fuure cruise, ironically) when the list occurred. He said that the 6th floor windows on the side facing the ocean during the list were fully covered with ocean water. He reported that people as high as the 9th deck received water in their cabins.

[spongerob]

I've just been able to log in and read about this. Naturally, my concerns are more for the passengers on board and in particular those CC members who provided us with updates and information from on board the ship.

 

This is the second, and even more serious incident concerning the stability of Grand-class ships. I'm confident in the training and experience of the staff and crew, my concern is that there is a hardware or software issue that has given us two warnings of problems. I will patiently await the outcome of the inevitable Coast Guard investigation of this incident to see what fixes can be implemented.

[Host CJSKIDS]

I've just been able to log in and read about this. Naturally, my concerns are more for the passengers on board and in particular those CC members who provided us with updates and information from on board the ship.

 

This is the second, and even more serious incident concerning the stability of Grand-class ships. I'm confident in the training and experience of the staff and crew, my concern is that there is a hardware or software issue that has given us two warnings of problems. I will patiently await the outcome of the inevitable Coast Guard investigation of this incident to see what fixes can be implemented.

 

Now I wonder if the MAIB will be in to take over the investigation again like it did with the Star since the Crown is also under their juridiction. The do know that the Coast Guard is working in tandom with the MAIB, but the MAIB is the lead investigator.