Lets fix HAL

A shipping tycoon approaches you and states that he has a cruise line that is a drag on his company stock because of poor performance. He solicites you to "fix" the problem. What changes would you make or what initiatives would you implement to turn the problem around ?

I would -

- listen to staff, what is making them unhappy? unhappy staff = unhappy customers

- reinstate crew passenger ratios to those of the 1990s

- get away from the garbage branding association with "top chefs". - HAL food was 100% better before chef branding

- cut about 400 berths from the new Konsingdam

- hold townhall meetings with 3 and 4 star Mariners to seek input from my loyalists

what...??? I am hired Mr Arison??? I won't let you down. welcome back to the Great Holland America Line.

Just out of curiosity, have you given any thought to whether or not these ideas cost money, and where that money comes from? Because if HAL doesn't make money, HAL doesn't exist.

It is easy to come up with ideas, much harder to fund them. And "just raise the rates, people will pay for a better product" isn't a well proven plan. Not when cruisers can get things for cheaper. If you read around Cruise Critic, people are always shopping for the "best", which frequently equals "less expensive".

This was meant as a light hearted thread to discuss issues with Holland America and never meant to serve as a financial critique. However, if you are selling cabins at $350 or less and you are not sailing at 100% capacity, I would imagine that you are facing some serious negative cash flow issues.

This was meant as a light hearted thread to discuss issues with Holland America and never meant to serve as a financial critique. However, if you are selling cabins at $350 or less and you are not sailing at 100% capacity, I would imagine that you are facing some serious negative cash flow issues.

The problem is that Hal comes out of the gate with stupid high prices and then gives away the farm at the end. Maybe if they started with more moderate prices they might not be in this pickle. People would likely commit earlier instead of going to other lines that offer more favourable pricing. I wish Hal would work on their maintenance issues.

Well, first and foremost it depends on what price point you're going to compete in.

Certainly listening to staff is important. If you take care of your employees, your employees will take care of your passengers.

Listening to your repeat passengers is important; but the effectiveness of that strategy is very much dependent on your capacity and willingness to act on what you hear.

If you are going to decrease the passenger:crew ratio and increase the space per passenger, you are going to drive up your fixed costs, which must be reflected in your pricing structure. That's not to say that it's a bad business decision, but you must have some confidence that you can fill your ship at those prices.

There are many, many cruise lines for passengers to choose from, reflecting a wide range of price points. It strikes me as a vastly riskier business strategy to try to return to an older style, more expensive product than to maintain profitability with your existing base.

This was meant as a light hearted thread to discuss issues with Holland America and never meant to serve as a financial critique. However, if you are selling cabins at $350 or less and you are not sailing at 100% capacity, I would imagine that you are facing some serious negative cash flow issues.

Nothing says "light hearted" like poor performance and drag on the stock price. I can only imagine what "critical" would have looked like. :)

A shipping tycoon approaches you and states that he has a cruise line that is a drag on his company stock because of poor performance. He solicites you to "fix" the problem. What changes would you make or what initiatives would you implement to turn the problem around ?

 

I would -

- listen to staff, what is making them unhappy? unhappy staff = unhappy customers

- reinstate crew passenger ratios to those of the 1990s

- get away from the garbage branding association with "top chefs". - HAL food was 100% better before chef branding

- cut about 400 berths from the new Konsingdam

- hold townhall meetings with 3 and 4 star Mariners to seek input from my loyalists

 

what...??? I am hired Mr Arison??? I won't let you down. welcome back to the Great Holland America Line.

The ship is named Koningsdam....koning=king in Dutch

imagine if this would have been written in the Wall Street Journal instead of Cruise Critic message boards. whew, glad my portfolio does not include certain types of stock.

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

Love the wishful thinking.

We should start a poll of what 1 thing you would like to see improved - maybe HAL will take notice. Do not know how to set up a poll on CC but have seen them. Maybe someone can help.

OP

Good ideas -- but costly.

HAL would need to raise prices to pay for everything like we all had in the 90's. Not many people would be willing to pay high prices and before long -- no more Holland America.

There used to be a time when some people were invited to meet with the Hotel Director, sometimes the captain and a few other staff members on the last full day of the cruise to discuss problems. It was suppose to be for high member Mariners, TA's, etc. In the last 5 or 6 (maybe even longer) we have only been invited to one of these meetings -- fall of 2013. I can't even remember when we were invited to one before that date.

The focus should be on expanding the customer base and attracting new customers. I would think it far more useful to have discussions with those who are not cruising Holland than it would be to have discussions with senior mariners. If all HAL attempts to do is increase satisfaction among senior mariners, HAL will have a continuing decline in it's existing passenger base.

The problem is the younger crowd doesn't want what HAL offers.

Last year we decided after many years on HAL to try the other lines. We went on the Allure and the Getaway. Both offer tons of options for passengers. From eating venues to activity variety that HAL can only dream of.

Were they a different type of cruise? Yup.

Was it better or worse than HAL? Neither.

HAL old timers seem to want that quiet, serene, sophisticated ambiance that was there years ago. The new crowd wants variety, both in activities and restaurants. Pool side bingo, and afternoon tea don't suffice.

So when the younger crowd gets older (and wiser:)) will they gravitate to HAL? Don't know but I don't see or read that many are.

We like to relax in the quiet areas and read while watching the seas go by. Then go to dinner in a relaxed atmosphere. We were able to find places to do this on both the Allure and Getaway. And the ship had tons of other activities and food venues to satisfy the many other passengers.

Don't get me wrong, we love HAL. But the competition is coming up fast and what HAL offers isn't unique anymore.

Dan

The focus should be on expanding the customer base and attracting new customers. I would think it far more useful to have discussions with those who are not cruising Holland than it would be to have discussions with senior mariners. If all HAL attempts to do is increase satisfaction among senior mariners, HAL will have a continuing decline in it's existing passenger base.

We are frequently included in these Q&A sessions, the most recent being in early November on the Zuiderdam. This was the first time we had a first time HAL cruiser included in the group.....a frequent RCL cruiser. This couple were very happy to find a ship/line that was more like the "old days" than RCL.

Who knows who is invited as the Hotel Director said 20 are invited, but sometimes only two will show up. This one had 8 of us as I recall. The previous one this summer on the same ship had maybe 5 or 6. So, if the newbies are invited, perhaps they choose not to show up.

We are frequently included in these Q&A sessions, the most recent being in early November on the Zuiderdam. This was the first time we had a first time HAL cruiser included in the group.....a frequent RCL cruiser. This couple were very happy to find a ship/line that was more like the "old days" than RCL.

 

Who knows who is invited as the Hotel Director said 20 are invited, but sometimes only two will show up. This one had 8 of us as I recall. The previous one this summer on the same ship had maybe 5 or 6. So, if the newbies are invited, perhaps they choose not to show up.

Interesting.

When we were on POA a couple of years ago the ships staff met with all the CC roll call members twice that week. Once at the start to do introductions and at the end in a round table type of meeting to pick our brains and we could ask any questions. We've never had this happen on HAL. In fact I've read that ships officers will now not be attending any CC meetings. I'm sure they have good reasons as to why but when you distance yourself from customer feedback, you run the risk of offering a product that they do not want.

James and Dan, you make great points. I think the most important issue with HAL right now is they have just "lost their way". Princess and Norwegian have gone through the same issues in the recent past of trying to figure out how to get back in the game .

I love HAL. I dont care for "of the seas" masses or the "away" rowdy crowds . I just want my HAL to stop cutting. I think middle class America is willing to pay for the old HAL experience.

If anyone remembers Chandress cruises or the very early Celebrity days. Their ships were nothing to gawk at and neither was their entertainment, but the food and service were knock outs, thus Celebrity took off with growth and market share. People will pay for quality. Did anyone ever sail on the Brittanis or Meridian with Chandress?? You would understand my points here.

No one's mentioned itineraries. Being in a port with 4 or 5 other ships makes one realize how much me-too-ism is there in destinations. Along with seemingly many others who post here, we've gone over to Oceania because of their ambience, food, service, and destinations. With enough investment HAL could be repositioned as something akin to the O of Carnival Corp - the market is out there, but the identity and niche issues need to be addressed. As it is now, reports seem to point in the direction of HAL being run like a cash cow with dollars being squeezed from an aging fleet being kept running until its traditional customer base arrives at the departure gates from which there is no return. Outliving your traditional customers isn't a sound strategy.

A shipping tycoon approaches you and states that he has a cruise line that is a drag on his company stock because of poor performance. He solicites you to "fix" the problem. What changes would you make or what initiatives would you implement to turn the problem around ?

 

I would -

- listen to staff, what is making them unhappy? unhappy staff = unhappy customers

- reinstate crew passenger ratios to those of the 1990s

- get away from the garbage branding association with "top chefs". - HAL food was 100% better before chef branding

- cut about 400 berths from the new Konsingdam

- hold townhall meetings with 3 and 4 star Mariners to seek input from my loyalists

 

what...??? I am hired Mr Arison??? I won't let you down. welcome back to the Great Holland America Line.

I agree with getting away from the "Top Chefs." I agree the food was 100% before the chef branding. Rudi was better than any of them.

The problem is the younger crowd doesn't want what HAL offers.

 

Last year we decided after many years on HAL to try the other lines. We went on the Allure and the Getaway. Both offer tons of options for passengers. From eating venues to activity variety that HAL can only dream of.

 

Were they a different type of cruise? Yup.

 

Was it better or worse than HAL? Neither.

 

HAL old timers seem to want that quiet, serene, sophisticated ambiance that was there years ago. The new crowd wants variety, both in activities and restaurants. Pool side bingo, and afternoon tea don't suffice.

 

So when the younger crowd gets older (and wiser:)) will they gravitate to HAL? Don't know but I don't see or read that many are.

 

We like to relax in the quiet areas and read while watching the seas go by. Then go to dinner in a relaxed atmosphere. We were able to find places to do this on both the Allure and Getaway. And the ship had tons of other activities and food venues to satisfy the many other passengers.

 

Don't get me wrong, we love HAL. But the competition is coming up fast and what HAL offers isn't unique anymore.

 

Dan

Yeah, why go on a cruise to be on a ship when you can pretend you're in Vegas.

We are frequently included in these Q&A sessions, the most recent being in early November on the Zuiderdam. This was the first time we had a first time HAL cruiser included in the group.....a frequent RCL cruiser. This couple were very happy to find a ship/line that was more like the "old days" than RCL.

 

Who knows who is invited as the Hotel Director said 20 are invited, but sometimes only two will show up. This one had 8 of us as I recall. The previous one this summer on the same ship had maybe 5 or 6. So, if the newbies are invited, perhaps they choose not to show up.

I was really thinking of those who have yet to take a HAL cruise. Those are the ones who HAL needs to court.

James and Dan, you make great points. I think the most important issue with HAL right now is they have just "lost their way". Princess and Norwegian have gone through the same issues in the recent past of trying to figure out how to get back in the game .

I love HAL. I dont care for "of the seas" masses or the "away" rowdy crowds . I just want my HAL to stop cutting. I think middle class America is willing to pay for the old HAL experience.

If anyone remembers Chandress cruises or the very early Celebrity days. Their ships were nothing to gawk at and neither was their entertainment, but the food and service were knock outs, thus Celebrity took off with growth and market share. People will pay for quality. Did anyone ever sail on the Brittanis or Meridian with Chandress?? You would understand my points here.

People will pay for quality, at least some people will--but will enough people pay more? Certainly, when I sail on Cunard, I'm paying for quality. And while they have made cuts, too, it's still a higher quality experience. They have more varied entertainments--classical quartet, jazz combo, 2 or 3 pianists, live orchestra for dancing in a ballroom (QM2 claims to have the largest dance floor afloat). Plus they always have speakers during the day. Good speakers, who usually fill the space (on QM2, it's the movie theater/planetarium). I don't know if the food is better (we sail in the MDR cabins, not the higher level dining rooms), but the service definitely is. Better/bigger wine list, good wine stewards (and enough of them to go around). Afternoon tea with live music and beautiful service.

But here's the problem with HAL. Cunard's image is of a posh, traditional cruise line. People have expectations about Cunard that are, for the most part, met by the experience. People pay the higher price for Cunard because they know they'll get a quality experience. They don't look at HAL that way.

HAL's image, whether or not it is based on the actual experience on board, is of an older crowd and a boring cruise. Why should I pay Cunard prices for a cruise where nothing is going on? A cruise where, if I don't like the production show, my alternative is a screechy house band or a classical duo of varying quality. I have NEVER seen an enrichment lecture listed on a HAL cruise, probably because my cruises have been 7 or 10 days. Not even a port lecture. I'd love to see HAL beef up the entertainment and enrichment. Improve the server-to-guest ratio. BUT that will increase the price.

So if HAL "fixes" or "improves" itself, how do they promote this? How do they raise prices and justify the increased cost to people who have not yet experienced the improvements? I don't imagine an ad campaign in which they say "Try HAL, we don't suck any more!" I think HAL is afraid that if they raise the prices, even with improvements to the onboard experience, people will balk at paying more.

I suppose HAL is trying, with their high-tech partnerships. But so far, that's mostly about the booking experience. Seriously? Would you choose a cruise line because they have an interactive research system? How important is that to people who already use their computers for research? People know about tripadvisor and similar sites. They know that google will help them find country-specific or city-specific tourism sites. How much research help does the computer-savvy younger generation need? HAL needs to work on the cruise experience itself.

Like many posters here, I'm OK with HAL as it is. I'm not asking for a skating rink or an amusement park. I love quiet sea days with a book on my balcony. I want good food and reasonable service. But if the basics continue to slip, I'm not sure if I will be OK with HAL, no matter how much they knock down the prices.

No one's mentioned itineraries. Being in a port with 4 or 5 other ships makes one realize how much me-too-ism is there in destinations. Along with seemingly many others who post here, we've gone over to Oceania because of their ambience, food, service, and destinations. With enough investment HAL could be repositioned as something akin to the O of Carnival Corp - the market is out there, but the identity and niche issues need to be addressed. As it is now, reports seem to point in the direction of HAL being run like a cash cow with dollars being squeezed from an aging fleet being kept running until its traditional customer base arrives at the departure gates from which there is no return. Outliving your traditional customers isn't a sound strategy.

It would be exceedingly expensive to reposition HAL as a competitor to Oceania, etc. Oceania has six ships that average 30,000 tons and carry around 700 passengers. True, they do go to ports that HAL does not but many of those ports would not accommodate the much larger ships of HAL. Essentially, you would have to scrap the entire HAL fleet and start from scratch. BTW, Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam could carry all the passengers that Oceania does with their six ships. It's just not clear that there is a sufficient number of passengers to justify such a conversion.

BTW, HAL just announced they would be spending $300 million on their fleet.

Why on earth would we pay even more for HAL when, if they raised their prices, we could cruise on Oceania or Azamara for a similar price?

Why on earth would we pay even more for HAL when, if they raised their prices, we could cruise on Oceania or Azamara for a similar price?

Amen to this.

I understand customer loyalty to a point but when the product continually declines it is time to move on.

HAL is very weak in the marketplace with an aging, poorly maintained fleet. No way in hades I would recommend this line to newbies.

Please understand that HAL is still my cruise line of choice. And I understand the economics of the industry, probably even when completely filled the R class ships probably are at best minimal contributors to corporate profit. But HAL surely isn't the really "deluxe" experience it was 25, or even 10 years ago; to me HAL is dangerously approaching mediocrity . My most recent experience, MS Maasdam in November of this year was the first time I left an HAL cruise with the feeling that not only did it not enhance or even maintain the HAL standards I had come to expect, but probably didn't even meet them. And I say this not because of an older ship (I much prefer the older ships), or the condition of the ship, or the wonderful working staff. It was the continual progression of absence of things I remember from the past that combined to make it an exceptional experience. Long gone are the flambéed deserts prepared tableside, a "real" cheese board from which to choose, destination or cultural lecturers, the seating of the occasional officer or staff member at vacant seats in the MDR on formal nights, and on and on. But what really drove the point home was the continuing compression of the menu offerings in the MDR. Yes, presentation of the food was fine, the service was OK though not exceptional, even taste though subjective was to me satisfactory, but (and I'm not a picky eater) simply the limited number of offerings left me too often not picking something that I really looked forward to with anticipation, but rather making a default choice for something that would be just acceptable.

If HAL ever hopes to be able to lift their fares over their peers IMO they're going to have to first stop the slippage and begin to return to the type of experience that caused many of us to chose them in the first place.