HAL and China? Possible?

I've heard mention of RCI home porting their new ship in Shanghai. What an idea. Don't send an old ship in the fleet to try and tap a growing market...... send the newest, beautiful ship.

But if the port in Shanghai, is it so there are islands such as Caribbean within 7 - 10 days cruise and return distance? If they don't have to deal with PVSA sort of cabotage laws, what could be potential ports?

Imagine if there are islands such as Indonesia's Bali within range?

Could be some glorious cruising possible for an emerging middle class in China.

Can you see HAL doing the same though perhaps not with the first Pinnacle ship but maybe an existing Vista?

Would you think many North Americans would travel to China, enjoy a stay there and then board a cruise ship from a company we have known as catering heavily to North Americans?

The times are a changing. And HAL can't have it both ways on that run. Likes and dislikes are different.

I couldn't link to the piece in our local paper, The Telegraph Journal, because it is online by subscription only. I could only copy and paste but here it is.

----------------------

HONG KONG • Royal Caribbean’s newest ship has attractions not usually seen on cruise liners, including bumper cars, a skydiving simulator and a glass observation capsule on a mechanical arm that lifts its passengers high into the air.

What’s also a surprise is the vessel’s intended home port: Shanghai.

After floating out of a German shipyard last week, the $935-million Quantum of the Seas will spend the winter running between New York and the Caribbean before moving to its new base next summer in mainland China’s financial centre.

It’s a gutsy move for the world’s second biggest cruise company. Cruise operators have traditionally sent older vessels to developing countries while saving their most advanced ships for U.S. and European customers. But surging growth in China means it’s a market operators can no longer ignore.

Carnival Corp., the No. 1 cruise company, will become the first global cruise operator to have four ships based in China when it deploys its Costa Serena to Shanghai in April.

The race for China underscores the growing strength of the leisure and travel industries in the world’s No. 2 economy as authorities try to spur domestic spending rather than trade and investment as an engine of growth.

Executives are confident about China’s prospects even as its economy struggles with a prolonged slowdown from double digit rates of expansion, saying that growth is still strong when compared with developed markets.

Miami-based Carnival expects to carry 500,000 Chinese cruise passengers in 2015, up from 350,000 this year.

“We know that’s just a drop in the bucket to what lies ahead in terms of the market in China, which we believe is going to someday represent more than half of all the cruise guests,” Carnival CEO Arnold Donald said in a phone interview.

The Asian Cruise Association estimated last year that the overall Asian market, which totalled 1.3 million passengers in 2012, could nearly triple to 3.8 million in 2020, including 1.6 million from China.

Carnival is even more optimistic, predicting the number will grow to 7 million by 2020 or about a fifth of the global market.

“For the next five to 10 years, greater China including Hong Kong will play a critical role to the global cruise industry’s development,”said Zinan Liu, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.’s managing director for China.

While the U.S. and Europe are showing signs of revival,“there’s no region like China and Asia that will grow as rapidly,”he said.

Liu said Royal Caribbean expects to carry 400,000 Chinese cruise passengers in 2015, double the number from last year, from four main ports – Shanghai, Hong Kong, Xiamen and Tianjin.

The company’s 18-deck Quantum of the Seas, which carries 4,180 passengers, arrives in Shanghai in May next year, joining two other Royal Caribbean ships based in China. It’s also expanding operations in Hong Kong to better market to customers in neighbouring Guangdong, the richest province in mainland China, Liu said.

For Carnival, the addition of the Costa Serena will raise its China capacity by 3,780 passengers. The company has two other Costa brand vessels stationed in Shanghai as well as one with its Princess brand.

While companies are salivating over the growth potential of China’s newly wealthy middle class, hurdles remain.

One factor complicating efforts to pitch cruises to mainland Chinese is that “the vast majority of the population have no concept of a cruise,” said Donald, Carnival’s CEO.

Unlike American or European cruise passengers, who tend to be older and have the time to take two week journeys, Chinese cruise travellers are younger and have less vacation time. That limits the possible itineraries and presents a challenge in cultivating repeat travellers.

Shanghai software engineer Cao Ying took a five-day cruise to Japan and South Korea with her husband on Royal Caribbean’s Princess Sapphire after he took one with other staff at his Internet company to entertain clients.

The 30-year-old loved the dining, the shows, the spa and the helpful staff But she complained that there wasn’t enough time during port calls.

“I think travelling by cruise is a good experience, but the downside is that you couldn’t really see a lot. I couldn’t go to visit the places I would like to go in a foreign country,” said Cao.“So unless it’s a free trip, I wouldn’t take a second cruise, even to go to another country.”

Another big complaint is insufficient cruise ports and related facilities China’s focus in the past few decades on export manufacturing means ports are geared to shipping containers rather than leisure travellers.

Unco-ordinated infrastructure development was highlighted when Shanghai opened a new $260-million cruise terminal on the city’s historic riverside Bund in 2008, only to discover that many big ships couldn’t access it because of a low bridge downstream Another $140-million terminal with two berths opened at the river’s mouth in 2011 to accommodate those vessels.

Hong Kong christened a new $1.2 billion cruise terminal last year, but the Norman Foster-designed facility has so far been infrequently used. Visits are expected to pick up in coming years.

Visitors have criticized the terminal, built at the end of the old Kai Tak airport’s runway jutting into the scenic harbour, for being hard to access by bus or taxi. A smaller terminal near the city centre is more popular and a home base for ships operated by Gen-ting Group’s Star Cruises.

China’s “lack of infrastructure is the biggest impediment to growth,” the annual World Travel Market industry conference, said in a report last year that recommended government intervention to realize improvements.

Kelvin Chan of the Associated Press is the writer of the above article.

Are you sure he was referring to Royal Caribbean? Royal Caribbean ships are named "XXXX of the Seas"

Princess has the Sapphire Princes in Asia full time.

Are you sure he was referring to Royal Caribbean? Royal Caribbean ships are named "XXXX of the Seas"

Princess has the Sapphire Princes in Asia full time.

Maybe you missed

Quantum of the Seas?

I think that is still one of their ships. Read the same article today and it is copied and pasted verbatim;)

Are you sure he was referring to Royal Caribbean? Royal Caribbean ships are named "XXXX of the Seas"

Princess has the Sapphire Princes in Asia full time.

He specifically named Quantum of the Seas.

Third paragraph.

RCL is exactly what he is talking about.

He specifically named Quantum of the Seas.

 

Third paragraph.

:) The site suggested I subscribe! Otherwise, no article.

There are a lot of Australians excited about the Quantum moving to China as the flights there are shorter and less expensive than to Europe or North America. That adds even more to the population they are marketing to.

I couldn't link to the piece in our local paper, The Telegraph Journal, because it is online by subscription only. I could only copy and paste but here it is.

 

----------------------

HONG KONG • Royal Caribbean’s newest ship has attractions not usually seen on cruise liners, including bumper cars, a skydiving simulator and a glass observation capsule on a mechanical arm that lifts its passengers high into the air.

 

What’s also a surprise is the vessel’s intended home port: Shanghai.

 

After floating out of a German shipyard last week, the $935-million Quantum of the Seas will spend the winter running between New York and the Caribbean before moving to its new base next summer in mainland China’s financial centre.

 

It’s a gutsy move for the world’s second biggest cruise company. Cruise operators have traditionally sent older vessels to developing countries while saving their most advanced ships for U.S. and European customers. But surging growth in China means it’s a market operators can no longer ignore.

 

Carnival Corp., the No. 1 cruise company, will become the first global cruise operator to have four ships based in China when it deploys its Costa Serena to Shanghai in April.

 

The race for China underscores the growing strength of the leisure and travel industries in the world’s No. 2 economy as authorities try to spur domestic spending rather than trade and investment as an engine of growth.

 

Executives are confident about China’s prospects even as its economy struggles with a prolonged slowdown from double digit rates of expansion, saying that growth is still strong when compared with developed markets.

 

Miami-based Carnival expects to carry 500,000 Chinese cruise passengers in 2015, up from 350,000 this year.

 

“We know that’s just a drop in the bucket to what lies ahead in terms of the market in China, which we believe is going to someday represent more than half of all the cruise guests,” Carnival CEO Arnold Donald said in a phone interview.

 

The Asian Cruise Association estimated last year that the overall Asian market, which totalled 1.3 million passengers in 2012, could nearly triple to 3.8 million in 2020, including 1.6 million from China.

 

Carnival is even more optimistic, predicting the number will grow to 7 million by 2020 or about a fifth of the global market.

 

“For the next five to 10 years, greater China including Hong Kong will play a critical role to the global cruise industry’s development,”said Zinan Liu, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd.’s managing director for China.

 

While the U.S. and Europe are showing signs of revival,“there’s no region like China and Asia that will grow as rapidly,”he said.

 

Liu said Royal Caribbean expects to carry 400,000 Chinese cruise passengers in 2015, double the number from last year, from four main ports – Shanghai, Hong Kong, Xiamen and Tianjin.

 

The company’s 18-deck Quantum of the Seas, which carries 4,180 passengers, arrives in Shanghai in May next year, joining two other Royal Caribbean ships based in China. It’s also expanding operations in Hong Kong to better market to customers in neighbouring Guangdong, the richest province in mainland China, Liu said.

 

For Carnival, the addition of the Costa Serena will raise its China capacity by 3,780 passengers. The company has two other Costa brand vessels stationed in Shanghai as well as one with its Princess brand.

 

While companies are salivating over the growth potential of China’s newly wealthy middle class, hurdles remain.

 

One factor complicating efforts to pitch cruises to mainland Chinese is that “the vast majority of the population have no concept of a cruise,” said Donald, Carnival’s CEO.

 

Unlike American or European cruise passengers, who tend to be older and have the time to take two week journeys, Chinese cruise travellers are younger and have less vacation time. That limits the possible itineraries and presents a challenge in cultivating repeat travellers.

 

Shanghai software engineer Cao Ying took a five-day cruise to Japan and South Korea with her husband on Royal Caribbean’s Princess Sapphire after he took one with other staff at his Internet company to entertain clients.

 

The 30-year-old loved the dining, the shows, the spa and the helpful staff But she complained that there wasn’t enough time during port calls.

 

“I think travelling by cruise is a good experience, but the downside is that you couldn’t really see a lot. I couldn’t go to visit the places I would like to go in a foreign country,” said Cao.“So unless it’s a free trip, I wouldn’t take a second cruise, even to go to another country.”

 

Another big complaint is insufficient cruise ports and related facilities China’s focus in the past few decades on export manufacturing means ports are geared to shipping containers rather than leisure travellers.

 

Unco-ordinated infrastructure development was highlighted when Shanghai opened a new $260-million cruise terminal on the city’s historic riverside Bund in 2008, only to discover that many big ships couldn’t access it because of a low bridge downstream Another $140-million terminal with two berths opened at the river’s mouth in 2011 to accommodate those vessels.

 

Hong Kong christened a new $1.2 billion cruise terminal last year, but the Norman Foster-designed facility has so far been infrequently used. Visits are expected to pick up in coming years.

 

Visitors have criticized the terminal, built at the end of the old Kai Tak airport’s runway jutting into the scenic harbour, for being hard to access by bus or taxi. A smaller terminal near the city centre is more popular and a home base for ships operated by Gen-ting Group’s Star Cruises.

 

China’s “lack of infrastructure is the biggest impediment to growth,” the annual World Travel Market industry conference, said in a report last year that recommended government intervention to realize improvements.

Someone is a little confused. Royal caribbean's Princess sapphire. It's the sapphire princess. Not royal.

:) The site suggested I subscribe! Otherwise, no article.

That's what I suspected. When I clicked on it it took me to the front page of the paper instead of the article so I just edited and removed the link. Thanks for letting me know.

There are a lot of Australians excited about the Quantum moving to China as the flights there are shorter and less expensive than to Europe or North America. That adds even more to the population they are marketing to.

Any idea what ports they might call at?

I am ignorant of the geography as to ports of interest to a cruiser that are within close range to Shanghai?

Anyone know if there really are islands such as Caribbean?

I find this very intriguing.

Thanks for printing the AP article, Sapper. This is substantially what I had heard.

Any idea what ports they might call at?

I am ignorant of the geography as to ports of interest to a cruiser that are within close range to Shanghai?

 

Anyone know if there really are islands such as Caribbean?

 

I find this very intriguing.

 

Thanks for printing the AP article, Sapper. This is substantially what I had heard.

 

Asia is a lot different then the Caribbean :) We also have our doubts as to whether RCI will even market the Quantum once she reaches China. There will have to be many changes onboard to accommodate the large number of Chinese cruisers including language, cuisine, entertainment, etc.

But there are certainly islands in the area (Indonesia has more then 17,000 islands) but you might be wrestling with a Komodo Dragon as opposed to Diamonds International :).

Hank

 

Would you think many North Americans would travel to China, enjoy a stay there and then board a cruise ship from a company we have known as catering heavily to North Americans?

 

 

Not sure how many others would be interested in heading to China for a cruise, but I did it last year and loved it. The Great Wall was on my bucket list, and when I saw a nicely priced package advertised by a local travel agency, I swallowed my fear of cruising and took a trip of a lifetime.

We spent four days touring Beijing and then a twelve day cruise on Voyager of the Seas leaving from Tianjin, China, and visiting Toyama, Sapporo, Tokyo, and Nagasaki, Japan, and Busan, S. Korea. The passengers were mostly Asian, followed by Australians, Brits, and Canadians.

I am constantly keeping an eye out for another cruise package to Asia, perhaps seeing Shanghai next time.

Michele

Thank you for the article in the newspaper -- nothing like that in our papers.

With HAL moving the Noordam next fall to Australia, I can see HAL putting a ship in China.

HAL is no longer aiming for the North Americans -- look at the short season HAL spends in the Caribbean compared to years ago. And each year it seems to get shorter and shorter.

Asia is a lot different then the Caribbean :) We also have our doubts as to whether RCI will even market the Quantum once she reaches China. There will have to be many changes onboard to accommodate the large number of Chinese cruisers including language, cuisine, entertainment, etc.

 

But there are certainly islands in the area (Indonesia has more then 17,000 islands) but you might be wrestling with a Komodo Dragon as opposed to Diamonds International :).

 

Hank

Yes, I'm not sure RCI will market the ship in the US, relying completely on the Asian market to fill her.

Those 17,000 islands are nearly 2000 miles from Hong Kong (4 sea days), so given the limited vacation time noted in the article, I don't think you'll see too many itineraries to there. There are islands in the South China Sea and the central Philippines, but these are more "Survivor" than "Love Boat".

Any idea what ports they might call at?

I am ignorant of the geography as to ports of interest to a cruiser that are within close range to Shanghai?

 

Anyone know if there really are islands such as Caribbean?

 

I find this very intriguing.

 

Thanks for printing the AP article, Sapper. This is substantially what I had heard.

 

Princess has had a ship based in Asia for a while. I'm sure Carnival has been gathering data. It would be natural to put a HAL ship there, IMO. But ships geared to the Asian market often have some modifications. Just this year, I believe, they added a traditional Japanese bath on Sapphire Princess, and also they feature a MDR menu with Asian food selections on one side and Western on the other. There were some additional changes that I don't recall now.

One thing I would wonder about is smoking. Asians have the distinction of being among the world's heaviest smokers...

Looking at the types of itineraries offered on Sapphire Princess and a couple of other ships that sail from Shanghai, it looks like a mix of short (4 and 5 day) itineraries that might go to Taiwan and back, with perhaps 1 additional mainland China port. And some 7-8 day itineraries that go to Hong Kong, Taiwan, and a port or two in Japan.

Finally there are some longer (10-17 day) cruises that may go from Beijing to Singapore, with stops in Shanghai, Japan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Thailand, and South Korea (not all stops on all cruises).

Bali is too far for average cruises. The shortest cruise I could find that includes both Bali and Shanghai was 42 days.

Good points, I had not even thought about food and other cultural differences.

If HAL were to offer a cruise out of Shanghai, I could definitely see us doing it. What a wonderful way to see that part of the world without needing to do a "too long for us" cruise. A few days in China, before and after, would make the package complete. As for cultural differences that might need to be accommodated onboard, I see that as adding to the adventure. Wherever we travel, we enjoy visiting the areas where we can enjoy the local way of life. I think it would be fascinating to actually live with one of those cultures on a ship. If it ever happens, count us IN.

Not sure how many others would be interested in heading to China for a cruise, but I did it last year and loved it. The Great Wall was on my bucket list, and when I saw a nicely priced package advertised by a local travel agency, I swallowed my fear of cruising and took a trip of a lifetime.

 

We spent four days touring Beijing and then a twelve day cruise on Voyager of the Seas leaving from Tianjin, China, and visiting Toyama, Sapporo, Tokyo, and Nagasaki, Japan, and Busan, S. Korea. The passengers were mostly Asian, followed by Australians, Brits, and Canadians.

 

I am constantly keeping an eye out for another cruise package to Asia, perhaps seeing Shanghai next time.

 

Michele

I was so hoping someone would post like you have. I'd love to know more about this cruise.

Were the menus Asian oriented? Would most North Americans be okay with the food?

Were any announcements in English?

Who crewed the ship? The usual stewards and bartenders we are accustomed to?

Activities?

Non-Asians feel 'out of place'?

So many questions but I find the idea very interesting.

Thanks if you care to share any about your experience.

If HAL were to offer a cruise out of Shanghai, I could definitely see us doing it. What a wonderful way to see that part of the world without needing to do a "too long for us" cruise. A few days in China, before and after, would make the package complete. As for cultural differences that might need to be accommodated onboard, I see that as adding to the adventure. Wherever we travel, we enjoy visiting the areas where we can enjoy the local way of life. I think it would be fascinating to actually live with one of those cultures on a ship. If it ever happens, count us IN.

This enthusiasm is GREAT. Love it. :)

Have done a few Asia cruises on HAL. The potential for ports in this area are outstanding! Just imagine the back-to-backs you could do.

Japan: Yokohama, Kobe, Aomori, Otaru, Kagoshima, Hiroshima, Okinawa.

South Korea: Jeju, Busan, Seoul

China: Beijing and Dalian

Indonesia: Bali, Java , Komodo

Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Philppines, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar

Sign me up!!

I thought Volendam was a regular visitor to Shanghai?