Costa Concordia sinking (merged threads)

[HappyInVan]

This is on Costas' Web Site:

Tuesday, January 24th 2012

 

Time 3.00 pm (CET)

 

Costa Cruises is incredulous at the disgraceful and unfounded assertions made about the Company without any form of verification.

 

(I broke it into separate paragraphs to make the reading easier)

 

Here is their direct Link: http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Info/concordia_statement.htm

 

Joanie

 

Yes, Costa should be worried about the indisputable assertions made about the company and captain.

[kazu]

A very moving article - first of all because one of the musicians gave up his lifeboat seat for a child (he is one of the missing). Secondly, it outlines how the ships can list/tilt so easily, especially the ones who have more stories above water. and lastly - it gives a good recap on everything that happened.

 

I don't see any media stuff here. But I didn't hear before of the musician who gave up his life to save a child. His brother is there waiting praying that he has found an air pocket.

 

I thought it was a very good article http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,810761,00.html

[IRL_Joanie]

A very moving article - first of all because one of the musicians gave up his lifeboat seat for a child (he is one of the missing). Secondly, it outlines how the ships can list/tilt so easily, especially the ones who have more stories above water. and lastly - it gives a good recap on everything that happened.

 

I don't see any media stuff here. But I didn't hear before of the musician who gave up his life to save a child. His brother is there waiting praying that he has found an air pocket.

 

I thought it was a very good article http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,810761,00.html

 

I have not read all of this yet, but this, to me, is the way journalism should be in the heat of a tragedy. God Bless MARKUS DEGGERICH, FIONA EHLERS, ÖZLEM GEZER, CLEMENS HÖGES, SIMONE KAISER AND JANKO TIETZ and Der Spiegel The News agency!! and last but definitely not least, the translator Christopher Sultan

Joanie

[Indycal]

A very moving article - first of all because one of the musicians gave up his lifeboat seat for a child (he is one of the missing). Secondly, it outlines how the ships can list/tilt so easily, especially the ones who have more stories above water. and lastly - it gives a good recap on everything that happened.

 

I don't see any media stuff here. But I didn't hear before of the musician who gave up his life to save a child. His brother is there waiting praying that he has found an air pocket.

 

I thought it was a very good article http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,810761,00.html

 

WOW! That was some article. It will be on my mind when we cruise next month. Such a tragedy, and it is made MUCH MUCH worse because it did not have to happen.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I am aware the cruise contracts cover terms of where law suits can be brought, limits of liability etc etc and that most of those terms (if not all) lean towards benefit to the cruise line but I was very surprised this morning to learn another facet of recovering lost property.

 

Apparently any of the survivors who want their personal property returned must submit formal notice of that within a set number of days from the time of the loss. The report did not clearly delineate exactly what constitutes 'notice' but it well could be law suit filed in Genoa. What surprised me is the short time period they have to enter their notice...... there are only 19 days left according to the report I heard. That is a very brief amount of time in these conditions IMO

 

Also interesting is if they do have to proceed with suit in Genoa, they will need an Italian lawyer. They will not be able to have a 'contingency fee' lawyer as well could have been the case if a U.S. suit could be brought. The survivors will have to come up with fees to file and pay the attorney. There are U.S. attorneys who are trying to bring an action saying that due to the reckless negligence and facts of this tragedy, as they are still to be determined, that the must file suit in Genoa terms be set aside. That would make it easier for those U.S. persons who were aboard.

 

If they left a pouch of jewelry in their cabin safe and if the ship is eventually righted, it should be easy enough to identify to whom that jewelry belongs if there is any readable ID in the safe or if it is still in place in the same cabin where it was when guests used it. Shouldn't they expect to have that jewelry returned to them? Maybe not.

 

 

As I reported earlier this morning -- according to the Today TV show a reporter indicated that the passengers have 19 days from the time of the tragedy to file a claim for their possessions.

They need Italian lawyers.

[Krazy Kruizers]

A very moving article - first of all because one of the musicians gave up his lifeboat seat for a child (he is one of the missing). Secondly, it outlines how the ships can list/tilt so easily, especially the ones who have more stories above water. and lastly - it gives a good recap on everything that happened.

 

I don't see any media stuff here. But I didn't hear before of the musician who gave up his life to save a child. His brother is there waiting praying that he has found an air pocket.

 

I thought it was a very good article http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,810761,00.html

 

Thank you Kazu -- I read that article.

[RedmondCruiser]

I am aware the cruise contracts cover terms of where law suits can be brought, limits of liability etc etc and that most of those terms (if not all) lean towards benefit to the cruise line but I was very surprised this morning to learn another facet of recovering lost property.

 

Apparently any of the survivors who want their personal property returned must submit formal notice of that within a set number of days from the time of the loss. The report did not clearly delineate exactly what constitutes 'notice' but it well could be law suit filed in Genoa. What surprised me is the short time period they have to enter their notice...... there are only 19 days left according to the report I heard. That is a very brief amount of time in these conditions IMO

 

Also interesting is if they do have to proceed with suit in Genoa, they will need an Italian lawyer. They will not be able to have a 'contingency fee' lawyer as well could have been the case if a U.S. suit could be brought. The survivors will have to come up with fees to file and pay the attorney. There are U.S. attorneys who are trying to bring an action saying that due to the reckless negligence and facts of this tragedy, as they are still to be determined, that the must file suit in Genoa terms be set aside. That would make it easier for those U.S. persons who were aboard.

 

If they left a pouch of jewelry in their cabin safe and if the ship is eventually righted, it should be easy enough to identify to whom that jewelry belongs if there is any readable ID in the safe or if it is still in place in the same cabin where it was when guests used it. Shouldn't they expect to have that jewelry returned to them? Maybe not.

 

Sail - any lawsuit against HAL must be filed in Seattle, so says your cruise contract. Lucky we live in the area and it would not be a problem. This is a good time for all cruise lines to realize that being forthright and going to long mile makes all the difference in the world. Dragging their feet only creates expensive problems, down the line. I hope that Carnival relays this feeling to Costa so that they can do the right thing and take care of their passengers. It will pay off in the long run.

[Robin7]

The Oasis of the Seas has been on our short list for our next cruise (in 2013 or 2014, taking teenagers along). That graphic 'Oceangoing Towers' has me rethinking that idea. It's something I've never considered. That was one of the best summarizations of the tragedy I have read.

 

Robin

[HappyInVan]

Yes, we have to remember that the big numbers do help keep costs down.

But, it also means that it is harder to recover the ships's complement from the sea.

 

A passing freighter could accomodate several hundred. But, it becomes problematic when the sinking ship has 5k or 6k.

 

Gets real messy if there is a storm. So, getting off the sinking ship is only the beginning of the nightmare.

[jakkojakko]

"With aircraft, if you go 2,000 feet too high or too low, you have air traffic control on the radio immediately saying 'you're off course, get on course'.

 

WE wish! It's 200 twohundred feet. Deviate more than that and it's an official violation. ATC will see that and call you.

[world~citizen]

Sail - any lawsuit against HAL must be filed in Seattle, so says your cruise contract. Lucky we live in the area and it would not be a problem. This is a good time for all cruise lines to realize that being forthright and going to long mile makes all the difference in the world. Dragging their feet only creates expensive problems, down the line. I hope that Carnival relays this feeling to Costa so that they can do the right thing and take care of their passengers. It will pay off in the long run.

 

A number of lawyers and firms seem to be saying it is possible to start an action in Miami.

 

We'll see how that works out.

 

Reading those articles, it seems going the extra mile to allow everyone to put their cards on the table is not anything the cruise industry would look forward to.

 

My own view is that Costa/Carnival will do what corporations seem to have a longstanding record of doing, namely whatever is necessary to get the spotlight off anything that might point to company negligence and therefore liability, and protect corporate stakeholders interests by minimizing financial impact.

 

In that sense, I would say the last place they want hearings is in the USA.

 

Still, judging from the information that is coming out now, cruising can be made safer. It will all depend on the extent industry will feel compelled to act on revelations such as have been described in the media to date.

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if a safer cruise industry came out of all of this?

 

Smooth sailing...

[KirkNC]

The Wall Street Journal had an article yesterday about the CEO of Carnival and his handling of the crisis. The article was fairly neutral as to their opinion, talked about his style of delegating decisions to the individual line CEO's. At the end it said Carnival was estimating the cost of $85-95 million for the tragedy. The ship was insured with a $30mm deductible and it also has personal-injury liability insurance with a $10mm deductible. I am not sure what their limit is for the personal liability policy but with these numbers Carnival and Costa are well aware that this will be costing a lot more than a 30% discount on future cruises.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks Kirk for telling us about the Wall Street Journal article.

It sure is going to cost Carnival a bundle for this accident.

[sammiedawg]

Thanks for posting the link, it gave me the chills.

My heart aches for everyone on board this ship, other than the Top Gun Hot Shot Captain.

He should be in jail, house arrest is insufficient.

I wonder how many older disabled passengers were on board.

Holland America's small to medium ships will be well positioned in the marketplace verses the megaships.

Carnival Corp had better implement stricter oversight.

 

The press continues to report the 30% discount story, I'm glad to read the clarification it did not apply to the passengers on board the Concordia. Bravo's Andy Cohen gave Costa the Jackhole of the week award regarding the discount story.

[kazu]

Well, it turns out that the captain was 'bugged' and transcripts have now been released. Since he didn't know he was being recorded - he still maintains he was ordered to do the salute :eek: however, he doesn't claim to have fallen in the lifeboat :rolleyes: Here is the link if it is of interest http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/25/uk-italy-ship-idUSLNE80O01W20120125

[Globaliser]

He should be in jail, house arrest is insufficient.

Whatever happened to "presumed innocent until proven in court to be guilty"?

[KirkNC]

Whatever happened to "presumed innocent until proven in court to be guilty"?

 

Nothing, people are detained in jail all the time awaiting trial. Come on, you must get Law and Order in England? :D

[KirkNC]

Well, it turns out that the captain was 'bugged' and transcripts have now been released. Since he didn't know he was being recorded - he still maintains he was ordered to do the salute :eek: however, he doesn't claim to have fallen in the lifeboat :rolleyes: Here is the link if it is of interest http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/25/uk-italy-ship-idUSLNE80O01W20120125

 

Thanks Kazu, it is a little unclear what to make of the first part of the article. The "manager" could be anyone.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Well, it turns out that the captain was 'bugged' and transcripts have now been released. Since he didn't know he was being recorded - he still maintains he was ordered to do the salute :eek: however, he doesn't claim to have fallen in the lifeboat :rolleyes: Here is the link if it is of interest http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/25/uk-italy-ship-idUSLNE80O01W20120125

 

Thanks Kazu, it is a little unclear what to make of the first part of the article. The "manager" could be anyone.

 

Kazu -- thank you for the link.

Kirk -- the "manager" could have been the dining room -- wasn't he the one who wanted to get close to the island because of his father living there?

[Krazy Kruizers]

Well, it turns out that the captain was 'bugged' and transcripts have now been released. Since he didn't know he was being recorded - he still maintains he was ordered to do the salute :eek: however, he doesn't claim to have fallen in the lifeboat :rolleyes: Here is the link if it is of interest http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/25/uk-italy-ship-idUSLNE80O01W20120125

 

Thanks Kazu, it is a little unclear what to make of the first part of the article. The "manager" could be anyone.

 

Kazu -- thank you for the link.

 

Kirk -- the "manager" could have been the dining room -- wasn't he the one who wanted to get close to the island because of his father living there?

[FrankNJ]

Whatever happened to "presumed innocent until proven in court to be guilty"?

 

Well , you're a lot closer to Italy than I am , is that how it works there ?

[KirkNC]

Kazu -- thank you for the link.

 

Kirk -- the "manager" could have been the dining room -- wasn't he the one who wanted to get close to the island because of his father living there?

 

That was my exact thought when I read it.

[Seavoyage]

Whatever happened to "presumed innocent until proven in court to be guilty"?

 

 

Ug!!

[Boytjie]

Kirk -- the "manager" could have been the dining room -- wasn't he the one who wanted to get close to the island because of his father living there?

 

Why would the captain take instructions from the Dining Room Manager? :confused:

[world~citizen]

Why would the captain take instructions from the Dining Room Manager? :confused:

 

This is the reference:

 

The captain of the Costa Concordia was secretly recorded by police claiming that his bosses put him under pressure to sail the cruise ship close to Giglio island to give passengers a spectacle.

 

"Management was always saying, 'Pass by there, pass by there'. Someone else in my position might not have been so amenable to pass so close but they busted my b—-, 'Pass by there, pass by there', and now I'm paying for it," Captain Francesco Schettino, 52, told a friend during a telephone conversation in the hours after he was arrested.