Aussies being ripped off, price gorging and the ACCC.

[bazzaw]

 

As has been mentioned before, an essential part of the Aussie character is the essence of "a fair go"!

 

I have been a bit flummoxed by all the legalise in this thread. :D

 

A truly "free market" (for me) is one wherein I can firstly ascertain and understand the total and final cost of goods or services - and then for me to have the ability to "shop around" for the lowest cost.

 

The current action of cruiselines to redirect Aussies on the Internet is simply a smokescreen.

 

Barry

[The_Big_M]

Unfortunately, true competition will only come when we get more competition here, such as MSC, with its big fleet of beautiful modern ships. MSC have already built up a loyal following through their 2 for the price of 1 offers.

 

MSC is just another cruise line. It has people who like it, and people who don't, and I wouldn't say it has a more loyal following than say Royal Caribbean.

 

As for the "2 for 1" offer, that is just marketing, the same as being described here. They don't do it for all cruises, and if you compare prices, you'll see that the prices are not significantly different from where they don't have that offer i.e. it's either where you'd get a massive markdown with another line e.g. $500 for 7 days per persons for trans-atlantics, or the single price is actually very high, so the two for 1 just means you're paying similarly to your total price elsewhere. Sometimes they do have great bargains... but then so do other lines.

 

As has been mentioned before, an essential part of the Aussie character is the essence of "a fair go"! We know when, and how, we are being discriminated against!

 

Hmmm...

[NSWP]

I blame the Australian Travel Agents in part too for these high prices. I think they demand a bigger commission on sales than their U.S. counterparts. Commission can be 15% here.

 

Saying that..the price I recently paid for Golden Princess - South America - 2014 by booking direct with Princess Australia is only $100 more than the price I saw for the same category cabin on a couple of the big U.S. Cruise Sales sites, who have to remain nameless.

 

The internet cruise and airline sites are the High Street Travel Agent's worst nightmare, think of all that commission they miss out on. The only time I venture into a travel agent's shop is to pick up the glossy brochures and gloat over them, then I hit the 'net.

[Xcitdcruiser]

Hello cruisers,

I was hoping some light can be shed - it seems that this is an ongoing issue but was hoping for a little clarification.

I'm australian based, looking to book with Celebrity for a 2014 cruise in the Caribbean. I have heard that sales may come up in January, so i'm happy to wait until then to place a deposit. I thought I'd do some research & have asked a US TA & a reputable australian cruise agent the same question.

What is the cheapest cruise departing San Juan on the Summit in March 2014 for an (A2) Aqua Class? (ensure the same cruise is selected)

 

Responses below.

 

Aussie TA

To initially make a booking and secure the cabin a non refundable deposit is required with final payment due 90 days prior to sailing. Costs below do include port charges as well as the gratuities. Price - $1215 pp.

US TA

$1060.32 p/p for Cruise, port and tax. Breakdown:

$824 cruise rate p/p

$175 port p/p

61.32 gov tax p/p

Based on the cruise rate of $824 you qualify for $100 on board credit per cabin.

I’ll increase the total on board credit to $125 per cabin instead of $100.

 

So, with the USA TA, they quote all inclusive + OBC AND the exchange rate is in our favour. I havn't clarified whether they accept an australians booking (i assume so as my email is .com .au). Whereas the Aussie price you still need to pay for port & taxes. With no OBC

So, am i missing something or is the US TA a clear winner?

 

[Shiprobbo]

No gratuities in the US version. Presumably the Australian quote is USD, then the difference of $155 could well be gratuity componant.

[Xcitdcruiser]

No gratuities in the US version. Presumably the Australian quote is USD, then the difference of $155 could well be gratuity componant.

 

Apologies to clear that up - the australian quote is in australian dollars & the US quote in USD.

Now that you point it out, i don't think neither include gratuities, which brings me back to square one...

[Aussieflyer]

Xcitdcruiser, the line which I assume you have copied and pasted from the AU travel agent says gratuities are included. It looks like the basic difference would be the gratuities but with the US TA you are receiving $125 OBC which puts them ahead, even if you do not take the exchange rate into consideration. If the rate is small when you do book, the benefit in our favour may get swallowed up with foreign currency conversion with you credit card.

Notice the Australian TA has a non-refundable deposit (same as UK), most of US ones are refundable.

As you are doing some research, have a look at a European online TA maybe as the Euro rate is very good at this time.

Celebrity do allow Australians to purchase cruises through overseas TAs, not like some.

[The_Big_M]

The Australian price is the most inclusive, as it includes gratuities whereas US doesn't.

 

However, the final price is higher for the Australian one, so depends how much gratuites will be/how many nights, which isn't said above. (I also hope they're comparing the same cruise as you haven't given the date - maybe one cruise is cheaper in the US and a different one cheaper here?!).

 

It appears the US one is likely slightly cheaper overall, unless it is a really long cruise which isn't likely for Caribbean. YOu then have to weigh off the certainty of knowing the final price. 15 months before final payment is a long way away, and the AUD could fall significantly by the time it comes time to pay. For the small difference, I'd go with Australian unless you're going to monitor exchange rates and are happy to wear the risk or cancel if AUD goes down, or are paying it all now.

[Gold Coast Cruisers]

Immediately I balk at the 'non refundable' deposit bit quoted by the Australian Agent. That really peeves me especially when you're booking so far ahead. You might just decided to transfer to another cruise or something and I know AUS T/A's won't even let you do that without loosing the deposit.... pure greed I say... (as she jumps off her horse).....:p

USA T/A's always allow a fully refundable deposit so long as the cancellation is made prior to the final payment.

Jill:)

[Harriet1910]

 

RCD1 mentions that "US agents are not supposed to book non-US consumers". Its the cruise lines who instigated this rule, and it doesn't apply to all US cruise lines.

 

JB :)

 

Does it mean that as an Australian I should search for a cruise line that makes no difference between US and Australian citisens and book with the cruise line directly for better price?

[h & m]

Immediately I balk at the 'non refundable' deposit bit quoted by the Australian Agent. That really peeves me especially when you're booking so far ahead. You might just decided to transfer to another cruise or something and I know AUS T/A's won't even let you do that without loosing the deposit.... pure greed I say... (as she jumps off her horse).....:p

 

USA T/A's always allow a fully refundable deposit so long as the cancellation is made prior to the final payment.

 

Jill:)

 

 

I'll jump on the same horse now, as I have a real concern about Aussie TA non - refundable deposits :mad:.

 

Xcitedcruiser - I just had a look on the Celebrity wesite. celebrity.com

I picked 8 March cruise, and by doing a dummy booking, the US prices for Aqua Class are:

 

1149 plus 61.62 taxes, total 2421 for the cabin. $500 deposit due now, fully refundable if cancelled before 23 Dec 2013.

 

same cruise in Australian prices:

 

1119 plus 60.38 taxes plus 82.46 gratuities per person, total 2523 for the cabin, but this does include the gratuities.

$800 deposit due now, fully refundable if cancelled before 8 October 2013.

 

You can make the comparison yourself, the Celebrity site will pick up you are from Australia, but you can change the country at the bottom of the home page, and check out the US prices.

 

 

So can I suggest an alternative - book directly yourself with Celebrity Australia on line, that way you have the advantage of total control of your reservation, can chose your cabin, check on line for price drops which do happen.

 

The disadvantage is losing the on board credit from the US agent, but the advantage is a better price to start with, and not having to worry about exchange rates changing.

 

Does this make sense, I will be happy to email if you like

 

htortorelli at yahoo dot com

 

Hilary :)

[John Bull]

Does it mean that as an Australian I should search for a cruise line that makes no difference between US and Australian citisens and book with the cruise line directly for better price?

 

Citizenship is irrelevant, it's the country of residence that matters. Or even, as Sadie mentions, the state.

 

Don't know about booking with the cruiselines themselves, but many of us Brits used to book through US travel agents, paid the same fares (in USD) as US residents, & subject to the same pros - eg penalty-free cancellation, & cons - eg add-ons such as port fees, & lack of safeguards (broadly overcome by paying by credit card). Also subject to the vaguaries of currency fluctuations. The savings were significant.

 

A few years ago a large proportion of US cruise lines decided that they would only accept bookings from US travel agents for US or Canadian residents.

Some US travel agents have ignored the ruling.

Not all US cruise lines have the ruling.

Some Brit cruisers book using north American addresses of friends & relatives.

 

Those savings are now much smaller & there are now many more late late deals in the UK, so the advantages of booking through US agents are now marginal. For most, that means its not worth messing around to overcome the ruling, & for me I'm not prepared to give my money to cruise lines that are weaseling around to try to screw me - so I stick mainly to UK - orientated cruiselines.

I get the impression that there are still big differences for Aussies, so its worth finding out the cruiselines & T/As that don't bend over backwards to screw them.

Cruise Critic forbids the quoting of travel agent names, but a bit of googling should come up with them.

 

This all re cruises in europe, north America etc. I've got no experience of sailings from Aus

 

JB :)

[cassamanda]

I would go with either the cruise line direct or US TA. Cannot stand TAs that have non refundable deposits - rippoff.

[mattandkelly]

Hi,

 

at the end of last year we booked a RCCL cruise for this November with a US TA as they are one we have used before because they specialise in travel for people with disabilities (which we need). This week our TA told us that RCCL and Celebrity have advised them that they should not be booking cruises for 'non-American citizens'. While they have stopped short of actually disallowing them from booking them, they are refusing to pay commissions therefore making it unviable for US TA's to book cruises for us Aussies unless they charge a substantial service fee. Apparently Princess, Carnival and HAL are also following this procedure. I'm not sure how widely this has been communicated to US TA's - obviously the one you enquired with isnt aware of it and I'm also not sure what the ramifications are for TA's that do make bookings? Just thought I'd pass on this info in case it causes any problems if you choose to book through the US TA.

 

Cheers

 

Kelly

[3littlepigs]

Presume you shopped around the Aussie TA's because there are big variances between agencies. Also remember to take into account the credit card surcharge they charge, its one of the ways some of the TA's use to quote lower costs.

If the difference still comes out at $100 I would still book locally, at least you are protected by our fair trade rules and protected from exchange variations which may be considerable. Be aware that the exchange rates you look at on the internet aren't what the bank will use when you pay by credit card there is a foreign currency exchange surcharge as well.

 

For the sake of a potential saving of 5% I think the the risk is too high to book overseas unless you aren't really committed to going. If you are committed to going buy your travel insurance now and you don't need to worry about the deposit being non-refundable.

 

If I was a travel agent doing all that work for you I would expect you to cough up a non-refundable deposit as well. Although I agree $900 is a bit high!

[kate59]

Just something else worth knowing - at least Princess now accept money transfers from internet banking to pay for cruises, ie no more credit card fees. Details are in their Cruise Answer Book.

 

Might be worth looking to see if you can do this with the other cruiselines.:)

[3littlepigs]

That's good to know Kate!

[Aussieflyer]

Just something else worth knowing - at least Princess now accept money transfers from internet banking to pay for cruises, ie no more credit card fees. Details are in their Cruise Answer Book.

 

Might be worth looking to see if you can do this with the other cruiselines.:)

 

RCI allow you to make progress payments of any amount when you log onto your booking.There is no fee for payments.

 

<This week our TA told us that RCCL and Celebrity have advised them that they should not be booking cruises for 'non-American citizens'. While they have stopped short of actually disallowing them from booking them, they are refusing to pay commissions therefore making it unviable for US TA's to book cruises for us Aussies unless they charge a substantial service fee. Apparently Princess, Carnival and HAL are also following this procedure.>

 

The news about Celebrity and RCCL is interesting as one of the larger online discount TAs in the US only lists Holland America, MSC, Princess and P & O as the lines not allowing non-US cruisers to book through them.

[Oz_Steve]

nor does it prevent protectionism in other ways. A non-US airline is not permitted to transport directly between two US Cities(so you can't take Qantas for a flight between NY and San Francisco or from NY to Hawaii and get off). They can take you if you stay on the plane on the way to somewhere in another country. Some Asian based flights go from NY to Vancouver and then over to Asia that is ok because Vancouver is in Canada.

 

Its my understanding that most US based cruise lines have established a Australian based subsidiary. They do this precisely because they have to to obey Australian laws-particularly on being licensed to sell to your citizens.

Do American flagged airlines do the same thing?

 

While I do think they can do a better job on the exchange issue, I don't know if they are legally required to or not.

 

I also don't think that the two issues listed above have been made clear before. The Original post was complaining about the price differentials people pay. Even in the US people pay many different prices for the same room based on many different things. When they book, who they book through(some TA's have group or other special rates) senior rates, AAA rates, resident specials, last minute specials, early rates....etc.

 

There is also a business justification for charging more. As you know when the ships were first deployed to Australia there was a really big problem with a fair number(not all) of your countrymen/women removing the auto-tip(or whatever the cruise line called it)..and then not tipping. This was a real problem for the cruise line's employees. They rebelled. The result was that the auto-tip and tipping were rolled into the fare(I believe they added more than just the amount to justify for the tips only). The prevention of your circumventing this and requiring to use Australian based fares is a business justification for the differential.

 

Sorry mate but I am talking about the total cost of the cruise with all the added extra's. You still get the autotip added and the fees. So the justification is that they are charging you double the tips? Sounds like a rip off to me. :rolleyes: As an aside we generally don't tip in Aus because we are not , in general, familiar with the american beggar thy neighbour culture. We assume that everyone gets paid a fair minimum wage.

[Whitemarsh]

When I found out how much less U.S passengers pay for cruises, as opposed to Australians, I was quite annoyed at the substantial difference.

 

For example, a 6 night transatlantic crossing on QM2 cost $10K AUD when booked via Cunard in Australia. The same voyage cost $7K USD when booked via a U.S online travel agent. When I factored in the exchange rate (a higher Australian dollar) the difference was jaw dropping.

 

The price difference was so huge that despite losing my deposit, when I cancelled my original Australian booking and rebooked with the U.S online travel agent - I still came out ahead!!

 

Now, unless it's a last minute cheap deal on a local cruise line, I don't make a booking in Australia unless I have compared prices with the overseas online travel agencies. Most of the time they are cheaper, sometimes they are not, but it certainly pays (literally) to check.

 

There's no point getting angry with the cruise lines, they're not going to change. You just need to circumnavigate (:D) their ridiculous little rules by doing your own research and booking the best deals you can find.

[Pushka]

I circumnavigated :) our Princess cruise through Germany and saved $1000. The only issue I will face is if the Aussie dollar tanks.

[Pushka]

I'm using an online agency in Germany. Go figure.

[Whitemarsh]

I circumnavigated :) our Princess cruise through Germany and saved $1000. The only issue I will face is if the Aussie dollar tanks.

 

:) See, that's $1000 you can use for airfares or hotel accommodation.

 

Generally speaking, the price differences between what they charge Australians, and what they charge everyone else in the world, is usually so large that the Aussie dollar would have to drop quite dramatically to negate the savings from booking overseas.

[stki]

I circumnavigated :) our Princess cruise through Germany and saved $1000. The only issue I will face is if the Aussie dollar tanks.

 

I protect myself & buy an ANZ Travel Card in USD, when the rate is good & use this to pay for my cruise. (it also has no foreign conversion fees either, like your credit card)

 

Cheers

 

Tanya

[smeyer418]

so its clear why I have been posting, I am schedule to travel to Aus-NZ next year and have been watching these threads in general. I personally have no objection to your getting the lowest fare as I do the same thing also. But I do think if you use the fares that traditionally don't include the pay to the crew(like the Australian based fares do)...you should not complain about having to tip.

The US(American) based fare structure which traditionally allowed you to cancel without penalty is the result of the tradition here. The European and UK tradition includes a non-refundable deposit(and in fact also allowed a fare increase of up to 10% with no right to cancel as well)...

so if you want to take the "good" fare you should accept(not necessarily gladly) the other idiosyncrasies that come with it...