Fire Aboard Carnival Triumph

[sail7seas]

I think one of the points some of us are trying to make is that there are people on that ship for whom this is true suffering.

 

The diabetic who is not getting diet to keep them safe and healthy. It isn't a 'luxury' that they can forego food or eat ridiculous things such as onion sandwiches. Their very life depends upon access to appropriate foods.

 

The people with chronic heart conditions who cannot abide extended periods of such intense heat without adverse effect. The people who are on their cruise recuperating from recent surgery or intense medical treatments. The weak/elderly are not resilient to 'roll with it'. Not to mention, the rollilng of the ship is contributing to their misery.

 

Some of us are sensing a lack of understanding or compassion/concern for people who are truly suffering. If every person on that ship was young and healthy, it would not be as dangerous but for some frail, ill, disabled, anxious people this is not a 'minor' event they will quickly shake off. There are some for whom this trauma will be life changing. I do not believe I am being dramatic in my feelings about it.

 

There are people who will be different after this event than they were before it.

That is substantial IMO

 

[Jumbiecruiser]

This could have just as easily been a HAL, a Princess, a Celebrity, or an NCL ship. I doubt whether the results would have been any different.

 

It really concerns me when I see any cruise line cutting back on mtce. Why, because I am more concerned about what I do not know or cannot see than I am with mtce issues that are obvious to my inexperienced eyes.

 

It Is why we,like others, vote with our feet and do our best to avoid the 'clunkers'-regardless of the cruise line. Not worth taking a chance with our money or our time.

 

 

We don't know if this was an issue due to lack of maintenance but what concerns me is the fact that this ship had propulsion issues for weeks leading up to the fire and Carnival chose to place a band-aid on the issue and keep the ship in service. It also concerns me that this is the second in a similar class of ship that has had a fire that has left a ship without power. Carnival seems to have more issues than any other cruise line and even though all of the lines run independent I have to wonder what is going on behind the scenes. Troublesome at the least. This is a black eye for the entire cruise industry.

[sail7seas]

As to Carnival seeming to have more issues than other cruise lines, they also have far more ships.

 

More ships can equal more issues.

[startwin]

I think one of the points some of us are trying to make is that there are people on that ship for whom this is true suffering.

 

The diabetic who is not getting diet to keep them safe and healthy. It isn't a 'luxury' that they can forego food or eat ridiculous things such as onion sandwiches. Their very life depends upon access to appropriate foods.

 

The people with chronic heart conditions who cannot abide extended periods of such intense heat without adverse effect. The people who are on their cruise recuperating from recent surgery or intense medical treatments. The weak/elderly are not resilient to 'roll with it'. Not to mention, the rollilng of the ship is contributing to their misery.

 

Some of us are sensing a lack of understanding or compassion/concern for people who are truly suffering. If every person on that ship was young and healthy, it would not be as dangerous but for some frail, ill, disabled, anxious people this is not a 'minor' event they will quickly shake off. There are some for whom this trauma will be life changing. I do not believe I am being dramatic in my feelings about it.

 

There are people who will be different after this event than they were before it.

That is substantial IMO

 

 

It's a shame that you had to point this out, and you are absolutely right.

[cruisin'girl]

.......

Edit: To address the issue of "compensation", again, Carnival has already offered compensation for this incident -- a full refund, a free cruise, money on top of that. Compensation is supposed to "make whole" your loss it is not supposed to be a financial windfall. No one can give them a pleasant vacation. They can only be made whole financially and their financial losses are being made whole.

Yes, basic compensation is intended to make one financially whole again. In this case a refund for this cruise from hell and now an extra $500. (I won't even consider the future cruise credit. How many of these pax would even consider a Carnival cruise again, so this credit means nothing, will cost Carnival next to nothing, and is almost insulting.)

 

However, additional compensation for "pain and suffering" if there was any negligence on the part of Carnival in the operating of this ship is another whole story. For some pax this may be an adventure; for many others there may be serious consequences down the road, both financial and non-financial. Blanket statements that pax can only be made whole financially and that is being done are not necessarily true.

 

This event has nothing to do with what the victims of Katrina went through yet you keep comparing them. Katrina was an act of God; this fire and the consequences was not an act of God but an event on property owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation who had the responsiblity for the safety and welfare of their customers. Time will tell if Carnival acted prudently or with negligence.

[RuthC]

I think one of the points some of us are trying to make is that there are people on that ship for whom this is true suffering.

 

The diabetic who is not getting diet to keep them safe and healthy. It isn't a 'luxury' that they can forego food or eat ridiculous things such as onion sandwiches. Their very life depends upon access to appropriate foods.

 

The people with chronic heart conditions who cannot abide extended periods of such intense heat without adverse effect. The people who are on their cruise recuperating from recent surgery or intense medical treatments. The weak/elderly are not resilient to 'roll with it'. Not to mention, the rollilng of the ship is contributing to their misery.

 

Some of us are sensing a lack of understanding or compassion/concern for people who are truly suffering. If every person on that ship was young and healthy, it would not be as dangerous but for some frail, ill, disabled, anxious people this is not a 'minor' event they will quickly shake off. There are some for whom this trauma will be life changing. I do not believe I am being dramatic in my feelings about it.

 

There are people who will be different after this event than they were before it.

That is substantial IMO

 

All of this is quite true. However, no amount of financial compensation will change that.

The passengers aboard have already been offered a significant amount of money to be made whole financially, and to offer an opportunity for a pleasant cruise to replace this one.

Additional funds to reimburse for needed medical treatments arising from this cruise is appropriate, and has not been excluded to my knowledge.

For passengers to file lawsuits, as we all expect some will, is greedy.

[dr.dawg]

sail is totally correct. if telling the truth of it all is disturbing to some, well, so be it. i suspect the demographic on this four-day jaunt was not very old or ill, BUT can you imagine this happening on a HAL cruise of two weeks or more? or a world cruise? or the hawai'i-tahiti adventure, which i have done twice? i have chronic heart issues, and multiple stents; and much of this 'treatment' could kill me. the potential consequences of this mess are far worse than 'inconvenience', no matter how terrible that 'inconvenience' is. projected out to another similar situation and it could be deadly. thanks, sail, for 'tellin' it like it is', as you most often do.

[Jumbiecruiser]

As to Carnival seeming to have more issues than other cruise lines, they also have far more ships.

 

More ships can equal more issues.

 

 

Carnival only has one or two more ships than Royal and I am talking about Carnival the cruise line not the corporation. This is the second ship to have a fire in three years and several Carnival ships a few years back had issues with hitting other docked ships. Two of them were Royal ships. One Carnival ship backed into the Galvestion pier that same year. Add to that the Concordia and Allegra issues and you have some serious mishaps.

[mamaofami]

I think one of the points some of us are trying to make is that there are people on that ship for whom this is true suffering.

 

The diabetic who is not getting diet to keep them safe and healthy. It isn't a 'luxury' that they can forego food or eat ridiculous things such as onion sandwiches. Their very life depends upon access to appropriate foods.

 

The people with chronic heart conditions who cannot abide extended periods of such intense heat without adverse effect. The people who are on their cruise recuperating from recent surgery or intense medical treatments. The weak/elderly are not resilient to 'roll with it'. Not to mention, the rollilng of the ship is contributing to their misery.

 

Some of us are sensing a lack of understanding or compassion/concern for people who are truly suffering. If every person on that ship was young and healthy, it would not be as dangerous but for some frail, ill, disabled, anxious people this is not a 'minor' event they will quickly shake off. There are some for whom this trauma will be life changing. I do not believe I am being dramatic in my feelings about it.

 

There are people who will be different after this event than they were before it.

That is substantial IMO

 

 

I was thinking this morning that no power would equal an inability to charge the battery of my mobility scooter. There are many people using these devises and they would have a difficult if not impossible time getting around. I can walk long distances, but with pain. Many others can't walk at all. I can't imagine that added to all the other problems.

 

What troubles me the most is that we all can see the cost cutting measures that HAL has put into effect, but there are so many behind the scenes tune ups, if you will, they might be getting overlooked or put off. That equals negligence and we have no way of knowing before we board what the conditions of these mechanical devises are on the ship.

 

The fact that this ship had issues before this sailing and a band aid was put on them, is very frightening.

 

I don't know much about it, but would that happen on an airline or are their regulations that govern it?

[repo-cruiser]

And what times would these be? Would these be the times that cruise companies lobby government to "free enterprise" and reduce government regulation? Would these be the times that shareholder market economies demand growth and profit every quarter?

 

It is the cruiselines that want the industry left to the magic of the marketplace. Well, customers coming back at you with double barrel attorneys when they are dissatisfied is all part of that model. Cruiselines say don't regulate us, don't tax us, and you say don't litigate them.

 

Cool.

Actually they are regulated and they are registered in the bahamas. Regulation throughout hundreds of years has proved to be the downfall of an economy and peoples civil liberties. I guess hundreds of years of facts mean nothing to people who believe in Santa Clause

[world~citizen]

Actually they are regulated and they are registered in the bahamas. Regulation throughout hundreds of years has proved to be the downfall of an economy and peoples civil liberties. I guess hundreds of years of facts mean nothing to people who believe in Santa Clause

 

I'll compare my history books to yours.

 

Death by the way, is a pretty good deprivation of civil liberties ... a major reason for regulation.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

[world~citizen]

I think one of the points some of us are trying to make is that there are people on that ship for whom this is true suffering.

 

The diabetic who is not getting diet to keep them safe and healthy. It isn't a 'luxury' that they can forego food or eat ridiculous things such as onion sandwiches. Their very life depends upon access to appropriate foods.

 

The people with chronic heart conditions who cannot abide extended periods of such intense heat without adverse effect. The people who are on their cruise recuperating from recent surgery or intense medical treatments. The weak/elderly are not resilient to 'roll with it'. Not to mention, the rollilng of the ship is contributing to their misery.

 

Some of us are sensing a lack of understanding or compassion/concern for people who are truly suffering. If every person on that ship was young and healthy, it would not be as dangerous but for some frail, ill, disabled, anxious people this is not a 'minor' event they will quickly shake off. There are some for whom this trauma will be life changing. I do not believe I am being dramatic in my feelings about it.

 

There are people who will be different after this event than they were before it.

That is substantial IMO

 

 

A very thoughtful post.

[kazu]

I think one of the points some of us are trying to make is that there are people on that ship for whom this is true suffering.

 

The diabetic who is not getting diet to keep them safe and healthy. It isn't a 'luxury' that they can forego food or eat ridiculous things such as onion sandwiches. Their very life depends upon access to appropriate foods.

 

The people with chronic heart conditions who cannot abide extended periods of such intense heat without adverse effect. The people who are on their cruise recuperating from recent surgery or intense medical treatments. The weak/elderly are not resilient to 'roll with it'. Not to mention, the rollilng of the ship is contributing to their misery.

 

Some of us are sensing a lack of understanding or compassion/concern for people who are truly suffering. If every person on that ship was young and healthy, it would not be as dangerous but for some frail, ill, disabled, anxious people this is not a 'minor' event they will quickly shake off. There are some for whom this trauma will be life changing. I do not believe I am being dramatic in my feelings about it.

 

There are people who will be different after this event than they were before it.

That is substantial IMO

 

 

Ironically Sail, my DH and I were talking about this very thing last night.

 

He is very concerned for those with medical conditions. For example diabetes is quite prevalent and easy to control with the right medication and the right food. The medication can't be kept cold (can it?) and the diet would not be appropriate for their condition.

 

there are numerous examples and medical conditions. These people are having a very difficult time.

[world~citizen]

For passengers to file lawsuits, as we all expect some will, is greedy.

 

And you can say that without having seen the lawsuits?

[sail7seas]

Ironically Sail, my DH and I were talking about this very thing last night.

 

He is very concerned for those with medical conditions. For example diabetes is quite prevalent and easy to control with the right medication and the right food. The medication can't be kept cold (can it?) and the diet would not be appropriate for their condition.

 

there are numerous examples and medical conditions. These people are having a very difficult time.

 

A very thoughtful post.

 

 

I've just heard the ship is again delayed and is not now expected to arrive until close to midnight.

 

They are saying it will take about 4 hours to process everyone off the ship.

After all they have been through, now these people will be expected to deal with such a late disembarkation and then be carted off to any number of places on buses.

 

They have to decide whether to go to a hotel, ride a bus for hours to airport and go through the whole check in, security, airport hassle. Or be taken back to Galveston.

Sigh ...

What a NIGHTMARE!!!!!

 

[sail7seas]

I came in at the end of the report on TV but think I heard every departing guest will have to pass through medical clearance.......

Why? So they can sign releases? :(

 

[cruising cockroach]

Regulation throughout hundreds of years has proved to be the downfall of an economy and peoples civil liberties.

 

But also why we don't have planes laling out of the sky, unsafe vehicles, and limits financial market disasters (though there will always be new schemes to circumvent in-place regulations).

 

And if you believe all these flags of convenience registries enforce any regulations.....

[peaches from georgia]

I came in at the end of the report on TV but think I heard every departing guest will have to pass through medical clearance.......

Why? So they can sign releases? :(

 

I wouldn't sign a thing at this point. I can see why CDC or whoever is in charge of public health concerns might want to check out pax for obvious health problems, but if there is no verifiable sign of illness I can't see any pax could be held until they sign a release of any kind. A release would be between the pax and Carnival, not health authorities.

[Seago2]

What concerns me is that as we sit and discuss "cutbacks" over and over there are obviously cutbacks happening below decks, too. Zuiderdam, Veendam, Oosterdam- the list goes on. Triumph had propulsion issues for (as far as we know) weeks before this cruise. Rather than canceling a cruise or two and really repairing it Carnival turned her right around with a load of pax. Inexcusable.

[peaches from georgia]

What concerns me is that as we sit and discuss "cutbacks" over and over there are obviously cutbacks happening below decks, too. Zuiderdam, Veendam, Oosterdam- the list goes on. Triumph had propulsion issues for (as far as we know) weeks before this cruise. Rather than canceling a cruise or two and really repairing it Carnival turned her right around with a load of pax. Inexcusable.

Someone, I think on this thread but too long to reread, posted that there was nothing Carnival could do to cancel any Triumph cruises when there were engine or propulsion problems on a previous cruise because there would be too much bad publicity and passengers who were there to board would be furious if their cruise was suddenly cancelled.

 

Maybe just me, but if I arrived for a cruise and found it cancelled because of engine or other serious problems that might compromise safety, I would say "THANK YOU, Cruiseline". I would appreciate they were willing to cancel and take a financial loss and were not jeopardizing my safety and well-being on a sick ship.

[sail7seas]

I wouldn't sign a thing at this point. I can see why CDC or whoever is in charge of public health concerns might want to check out pax for obvious health problems, but if there is no verifiable sign of illness I can't see any pax could be held until they sign a release of any kind. A release would be between the pax and Carnival, not health authorities.

 

 

I agree.

 

I seriously doubt there are any 'thinking' guests on that ship right now who have any interest in being cooperative with Carnival strictly for Carnival's benefit. There would be no advantage for anyone to sign anything releasing Carnival.

 

[sail7seas]

Someone, I think on this thread but too long to reread, posted that there was nothing Carnival could do to cancel any Triumph cruises when there were engine or propulsion problems on a previous cruise because there would be too much bad publicity and passengers who were there to board would be furious if their cruise was suddenly cancelled.

 

 

<snip>

 

Bad PR? Huh!!!! And instead they have this monster nightmare PR.

 

The irony in my making this comment is the one time we were to sail a Carnival ship, it arrived about 9 or so hours late in port. We and our friends boarded at something like 3 A.M., we went to sleep, woke the next morning to discover the ship had not left. The cruise was cancelled and it was handled by Carnival about as poorly as it could have been. :eek:

 

[cruz chic]

Someone, I think on this thread but too long to reread, posted that there was nothing Carnival could do to cancel any Triumph cruises when there were engine or propulsion problems on a previous cruise because there would be too much bad publicity and passengers who were there to board would be furious if their cruise was suddenly cancelled.

 

Maybe just me, but if I arrived for a cruise and found it cancelled because of engine or other serious problems that might compromise safety, I would say "THANK YOU, Cruiseline". I would appreciate they were willing to cancel and take a financial loss and were not jeopardizing my safety and well-being on a sick ship.

I think the same way as you. I read a bit of the beginning of the Carnival thread. At the beginning of this people were upset at the thought that they would cancel the next cruise. Some people have a few screws loose.

[IRL_Joanie]

Just saw the latest:

 

DEVELOPING STORY - MOBILE, Ala. (AP) - A Coast Guard official says a disabled cruise ship is stopped off the coast of Alabama because of a broken towline attached to one of the boats towing the vessel.

 

Petty Officer William Colclough says the ship will be "dead in the water" as the tugboat with the broken line is replaced with a useable vessel. He says the Carnival Triumph will be on its way once it is safely reconnected, but he did not given an estimate of how long the process would take. http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/mobile_county/uscg-broken-tow-line-stops-triumph.

 

Live feed here: http://www2.wkrg.com/live/

 

Joanie

[Seago2]

This from my friend who is a tractor tug pilot in San Francisco:

 

"Controlling a dead ship is no fun. Done it lots of times. That thing is like a giant sail. Very difficult to maneuver into a narrow channel. When tethered n the stern in a swell you risk parting a line as the boat goes up and down. Not too bad in a head sea but sucks in a following sea. Also, with our high tech lines with 7000,000 lb breaking strength you risk ripping something off the ship."

 

FYI....