Trouble in Europe -- Credit Card with no chip?

[Stratheden]

Marco's Tia - the Canadian Banking system has been highly respected world wide for many years. Being a retired banker, I can tell you that the U.S. banking system has been behind mostly because of all of their small branches. Canada's strength comes from it's coast to coast branches and because of the large banks (although they are cursed at times by the public) they could focus on developing the technology.

 

 

Kazu, totally agree with you. Here we have "The Big 4" as our 4 major banks are known or cursed depending on your circumstances. It is far easier to organise a central system than with the innumerable small town banks that I have seen on my travels in the US.

[taxmantoo]

I am very surprised a 5-digit code worked for you' date=' however, my time is spent mainly in the UK, and 4-digits has become the requirement. Perhaps things have changed since you were last there.[/quote']

 

Go to London twice a year (daughter lives there) and never had a problem with a 5-digit code debit card at ATM's. Use a 5-digit credit card for all purchases also.

[runnergirl71]

So if your bank here in the US randomly assigned you a 6-digit PIN, can you go to them and say "I would like to reset my PIN to 4-digits"?

[kazu]

So if your bank here in the US randomly assigned you a 6-digit PIN, can you go to them and say "I would like to reset my PIN to 4-digits"?

 

 

you should be able to go and just change your pin - you don't have to tell anyone how many digits. In Canada, we can do it in the bank or at the banking machine. If memory serves me correctly, you can do the same thing in the U.S.

[sos1720]

Save yourself a hassle, get the chip card. We've traveled to Europe and Asia and many places require it for various purchases.

[1of4]

On the flip side, I had a devil of a time in Sydney Australia in March because my cards were chip and pin. Many places apologized that they had not switched over yet. My card was declined AFTER eating dinner with a friend and her daughter. This restaurant was a well known and recommended by the concierge. I was reassured that it was not being declined due to no funds, rather, it was not accepted because of the chip and pin.

 

Luckily my friend paid with her Australian credit card. I was told they are all converting over to chip and pin. But I would have appreciated knowing about the issue BEFORE we ate as the manager told me they encounter the issue numerous times a night.

[runnergirl71]

you should be able to go and just change your pin - you don't have to tell anyone how many digits. In Canada, we can do it in the bank or at the banking machine. If memory serves me correctly, you can do the same thing in the U.S.

 

 

Thanks! Just changed mine at the ATM. Never realized it was an option so felt stuck with the assigned one, and numerous times have been grateful that I could use it as "credit" especially after not using it for a whole and forgetting it at the grocery store. No Europe plans yet, so I will hold off requesting the chip for now.

 

 

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[Stratheden]

On the flip side, I had a devil of a time in Sydney Australia in March because my cards were chip and pin. Many places apologized that they had not switched over yet. My card was declined AFTER eating dinner with a friend and her daughter. This restaurant was a well known and recommended by the concierge. I was reassured that it was not being declined due to no funds, rather, it was not accepted because of the chip and pin.

 

Luckily my friend paid with her Australian credit card. I was told they are all converting over to chip and pin. But I would have appreciated knowing about the issue BEFORE we ate as the manager told me they encounter the issue numerous times a night.

 

Our chip and pin cards still have a magnetic strip on them ( do yours)? They should have been able to either swipe it or enter the numbers manually.

[kazu]

Our chip and pin cards still have a magnetic strip on them ( do yours)? They should have been able to either swipe it or enter the numbers manually.

 

not 1of4 but yes, there is still a magnetic strip. I am surprised that they didn't swipe it myself. But I think it is against chip rules or perchance the merchant was unaware of what could be done or afraid to do it.

[CI66774]

Marco's Tia - the Canadian Banking system has been highly respected world wide for many years. Being a retired banker, I can tell you that the U.S. banking system has been behind mostly because of all of their small branches. Canada's strength comes from it's coast to coast branches and because of the large banks (although they are cursed at times by the public) they could focus on developing the technology.

 

The pin and chip is very secure. If there is fraud, the banks take care of their customer. I know as DH was a victim through no fault of his own. (I still blame the hotel).

 

 

 

 

 

WOW! :eek: Sorry, if the truth hurts - the discussion was only on chip and pin cards and there was nothing said by M.T. to get this response IMO.

 

bad hair day? or just don't like the facts?:confused:

 

Ah - let's not tout Canada's system without analyzing the significant downsides of monopolies. Check out some of the 30 year fixed rate mortgages at some of Canada's "superior" banks. More than double what we pay in the U.S. A 30 year mortgage at the RBC is 9%!?!?! WHAT??? That's three TIMES my 30-year rate. Also, APRs on credit cards, etc. Ya'll up there pay much more (on average) than we do down here. While I like the idea of PIN credit cards - let's not for one moment think Canada's banking system is cheaper. Also, small branches increase competition which can lower prices.

[igraf]

What added protection? In the USA consumers are not responsible for fraud. That is the best protection of all.

 

Of course the chip and PIN are technically superior, but the implementation in Europe is to benefit the credit card companies rather than the consumer.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

Well' date=' I do think it is superior security system, and it has been in operation in the UK for many years and in Canada for about 4 or 5, I think. Anything that gives you a little added protection is fine with me. I'm surprised the U.S. is so far behind.[/quote']

[cruz chic]

Ah - let's not tout Canada's system without analyzing the significant downsides of monopolies. Check out some of the 30 year fixed rate mortgages at some of Canada's "superior" banks. More than double what we pay in the U.S. A 30 year mortgage at the RBC is 9%!?!?! WHAT??? That's three TIMES my 30-year rate. Also, APRs on credit cards, etc. Ya'll up there pay much more (on average) than we do down here. While I like the idea of PIN credit cards - let's not for one moment think Canada's banking system is cheaper. Also, small branches increase competition which can lower prices.

 

Don't get me started on our banking system. They are crooks without guns.

[kazu]

Ah - let's not tout Canada's system without analyzing the significant downsides of monopolies. Check out some of the 30 year fixed rate mortgages at some of Canada's "superior" banks. More than double what we pay in the U.S. A 30 year mortgage at the RBC is 9%!?!?! WHAT??? That's three TIMES my 30-year rate. Also, APRs on credit cards, etc. Ya'll up there pay much more (on average) than we do down here. While I like the idea of PIN credit cards - let's not for one moment think Canada's banking system is cheaper. Also, small branches increase competition which can lower prices.

 

I didn't say they were cheaper.

 

But, take a look at the service charges in the U.S. - and do a comparison - it's an eye opener.

 

I don't know where you found the 30 year mortgage rate - no one typically signs one of those here - we renew so we have the option to go elsewhere or variable or whatever. 5 year rate without negotiation (which there is) is 4.94% If you negotiate, it can be had cheaper.

 

Bank of Canada and the Banks do not want the mortgage rate too low - they don't want the housing bubble that hit other countries when people got mortgages at rates that were too low and then when things changed couldn't afford their houses.

 

 

I'm not sticking up for the banks - they have their faults - all companies do. But... none of them failed in the 1929. None of them failed in the recession nor required a Government bail out. One did falter a few years ago (a smaller one) and the bigger ones came to the rescue and each took a piece so that no one lost $, was put in a precarious position or had any worries.

 

Now back to the topic at hand:D

[cruisemom42]

Before it is inferred that Europe has evolved to a superior credit card system, I would like to point out their downside. With chip and pin the burden of fraud has now been shifted to the consumer. The attitude is that their security is "perfect" and so if there is any fraud the it is because the consumer shared their PIN with other people. Never mind that the banking system also knows your PIN and clever people can copy your PIN as you type it.

 

So, too bad for you if a fraudulent charge appears on your credit card bill!

 

igraf

 

This is not a given. From American Express's website:

 

Who is responsible for the liability for losses resulting from Card fraud?

If your PIN has been used with a fraudulent transaction, we will always examine the circumstances in which this occurred. If your PIN has been compromised through no fault of your own, you won't be held responsible for any fraud that occurs. If you have not taken reasonable care to protect your Card and PIN you will be held liable for any fraudulent transactions.

[Ians Grandma]

My Bank of America Visa has a chip but doesn't have a PIN attached, its chip and signature. I was just in Denmark and Sweden and it seemed that some vendors were annoyed by that. It also didn't work at the Metro. I'm not sure why my bank doesn't use a PIN with its chip card.

[Lizzie68]

Ah - let's not tout Canada's system without analyzing the significant downsides of monopolies. Check out some of the 30 year fixed rate mortgages at some of Canada's "superior" banks. More than double what we pay in the U.S. A 30 year mortgage at the RBC is 9%!?!?! WHAT??? That's three TIMES my 30-year rate. Also, APRs on credit cards, etc. Ya'll up there pay much more (on average) than we do down here. While I like the idea of PIN credit cards - let's not for one moment think Canada's banking system is cheaper. Also, small branches increase competition which can lower prices.

 

 

When the financial institutions in the US collapsed a few years ago and the economy did a tailspin thanks in part to some pretty weird mortgaging, and much of the European community followed into a depression, Canada plodded on financially secure. It may not be cheaper (no one suggested that) but it sure is more stable. Just sayin'.......

[iancal]

It is unclear to me why someone would believe that if a credit card with a chip is compromised, the cardholder is responsible for the loss.

 

Our card was compromised. There was absolutely no issue with who was responsible for the charge...the bank who issued the card. We simply had to sign off to verify that the charges were not incurred by us. That was the extent of it.

Edited June 13, 2014 by iancal

[VMax1700]

In Spain, you may still be asked for identification (passport/driving licence/photo id) even with a chip and pin card.

[1of4]

Our chip and pin cards still have a magnetic strip on them ( do yours)? They should have been able to either swipe it or enter the numbers manually.

 

Yes they do. It was hugely embarrassing, to be honest. He tried everything over 20 minutes of standing at the front of the restaurant while he swiped, entered numbers and the card was declined each and every time. I tried 3 different cards: Visa, Master Card and American Express all had the same result. The cards were declined because of the chip and pin and not because of lack of funds. I finally asked what people do because they have eaten and he said they have to find a bank machine.

 

not 1of4 but yes, there is still a magnetic strip. I am surprised that they didn't swipe it myself. But I think it is against chip rules or perchance the merchant was unaware of what could be done or afraid to do it.

 

He tried everything so there must be some rule, like you suggest. It was a very awkward moment and I was scared. I was okay because I was with an Australian but what if it was just DD and I. I would have had to leave her in the restaurant while I ran around Sydney after dark looking for a bank machine that would accept my Canadian credit card?

[kazu]

Yes they do. It was hugely embarrassing, to be honest. He tried everything over 20 minutes of standing at the front of the restaurant while he swiped, entered numbers and the card was declined each and every time. I tried 3 different cards: Visa, Master Card and American Express all had the same result. The cards were declined because of the chip and pin and not because of lack of funds. I finally asked what people do because they have eaten and he said they have to find a bank machine.

 

 

 

He tried everything so there must be some rule, like you suggest. It was a very awkward moment and I was scared. I was okay because I was with an Australian but what if it was just DD and I. I would have had to leave her in the restaurant while I ran around Sydney after dark looking for a bank machine that would accept my Canadian credit card?

 

Always take your bank card when you travel - you do NOT want to pay interest on your CC. ;)

[1of4]

Always take your bank card when you travel - you do NOT want to pay interest on your CC. ;)

 

:o sorry, I was getting my two out the door when I was writing. ..I had my bank card and would use it (and did) in bank machines. But we were in Cairns when I first tried and I held my breath. No issues. I had no issue with my credit cards anywhere else in Australia, only Sydney.

[Jean1946]

I just called capital one visa and Barclaycard visa: they both said there should be no problems using the cards without a chip. In the event the card did not swipe the merchant can punch in the number manually.

 

Last summer we had no problems using Visa cards without the chip technology.

 

This is what we were told and the merchant could use the toll free number to call Capitol One if need be.

[cruisemom42]

This is what we were told and the merchant could use the toll free number to call Capitol One if need be.

 

What Visa/MasterCard issuers will tell you versus common practice on the ground may sometimes differ.

 

I have been in one shop in southern France where the merchant just wouldn't accept the card. Didn't know how to use it sans chip/pin and wasn't interested in trying.

 

I have also been in a shop in Greece where the shopkeeper did obligingly try to figure it out on his own, then called Cap One and it still didn't work. After spending more than half an hour on it, I abandoned the sale.

[StartrainDD]

Train tickets in Holland - No Chip, no cards - Cash only (this was at Schiphol airport)

Elsewhere in Holland, no issue using signature.

St. Petersburg, no issue using signature.

Helsinki, they really want Chips. Just used cash Euros to make it easy.

Stockholm, no issue using signature. Although the Hop on / hop off boat could not process on the ship, we had to go to their ticket booth to use it.

Copenhagen, chip only! Used bank card at ATM to withdraw Krone and paid cash for everything.

Didn't try credit at other ports, so I can't say.

Upon return home had a notice in the mail from Citibank that one of my Visa cards would have a chip upon renewal. Only problem is they charge a foreign exchange fee.:mad:

I found that using cash Euros was very easy in most of the Baltic ports. Stockholm & Copenhagen have their own currencies however.

[NMLady]

Always take your bank card when you travel - you do NOT want to pay interest on your CC. ;)

 

What is the difference between a bank card and a credit card? The only card we have from our bank is a credit card.

Since we pay off the bill in full every month we never incur interest charges.