Ten Years From Now...... HAL

[RMLincoln]

I started with HAL about a decade ago and haven't seen that big of a change. It may be that they are at a junction but I doubt I will see that much of a change in the next decade.

 

I expect HAL to have smaller ships than the other lines even though they may be larger than the current ones.

 

I expect a good MDR experience though maybe fewer or more relaxed formal nights. The itineraries may suffer if the ships are larger and can't dock at the smaller piers but they still will have tenders, so there's hope for itineraries.

 

There may be more charges... room service for example. The entertainment has suffered significantly and will probably continue to decline from what we had once. It's becoming more like Carnival with more Do-It-Yourself shows... where the passengers provide the entertainers... Dancing with the Stars, mock game shows and the like. The musicians have already been cut way back and we certainly have noticed that! We'll be dancing to more canned music.

 

I think different people cruise for different reasons, so the clientele may shift somewhat but I doubt it will be very noticeable.

 

I suspect that I will change more in the next decade than HAL will!! m--

[sammiedawg]

To clarify why I said HAL is not a premium line- post number 65 says it is.

This is a very interesting thread and I hope we are all posting in ten years to see what happened. Sadly, this line is trending in the wrong direction. I hope the new build comes to fruition and if it does I will try it out.

As for Oceania, it blows Holland America out of the water for approximately the same per diem charged on the Prinsendam.

Edited August 9, 2014 by sammiedawg

[navybankerteacher]

To clarify why I said HAL is not a premium line- post number 65 says it is.

 

As for Oceania, it blows Holland America out of the water for approximately the same per diem charged on the Prinsendam.

 

I think you should check your figures - a brief review of upcoming itineraries shows that Prinsendam's per diem generally runs $100- $250, while Oceania's are generally $300+. --- which, of course makes sense: Oceania's ships,services and amenities are clearly closer to premium (and should be, considering the pricing) than those on Prinsendam - which does not pretend to be "premium" - simply the "elegant explorer", whose smaller size and service levels puts her a notch above HAL's other ships.

 

Why compare apples to oranges?

[PROCRUISE]

3/4 of those on board will be on scooters or using walkers/canes and they'll still be fighting to get to the buffet, like it was their last meal - occasionally it will be! :)

[sail7seas]

I give those folks in scooters, wheelchairs and walkers so much credit. It takes a lot of will power and gumption to continue living when one's physical conditions make it so difficult. It would be so much easier to 'just stay home' but they don't. GOOD for Them!!! Not a one of us know but that I won't be us someday.

[cruz chic]

I give those folks in scooters, wheelchairs and walkers so much credit. It takes a lot of will power and gumption to continue living when one's physical conditions make it so difficult. It would be so much easier to 'just stay home' but they don't. GOOD for Them!!! Not a one of us know but that I won't be us someday.

 

Totally agree with you sail. More power to them.

 

I simply don't understand all the nasty remarks on this board lately. It's especially tiresome from frequent posters. Cruise critic is a real turn off lately and not a place I want to spend much time. I'd much rather spend my time somewhere more positive than this.

[Typhoon1]

Yes, and I hope so.

 

Life is finite. We don't know the when, where, and by what method we will depart this earth.

 

Enjoy it to its fullest while we still can.

[Lizzie68]

I give those folks in scooters, wheelchairs and walkers so much credit. It takes a lot of will power and gumption to continue living when one's physical conditions make it so difficult. It would be so much easier to 'just stay home' but they don't. GOOD for Them!!! Not a one of us know but that I won't be us someday.

 

Well said! When I see those folks I'm just glad it's not me - yet. I know how hard it is just to travel to the ship when you are mobility-impaired and we should all have that kind of determination and willingness to just keep on going.

[DFD1]

In ten years....HAL will either be gone or a clone of Carnival.

 

The younger cruising public does not understand, nor will it pay for the elegance and sophistication which once was HAL.

 

IMO

[WpgCruise]

I doubt there will be a H.A.L. in 10 years.

 

I would suspect that sooner or later Carnival, (the Corporation) will take a look at their brands, and determine a rationalization across those brands is in order. (Perhaps the appointment of Stein Kruse as the head of both Princess and Holland America is the beginning?)

 

Royal Caribbean has already begun this process, using Royal Caribbean as their entry level, Celebrity as the mid level and Azamara as their near premium offering.

 

I would suggest we will see Carnival as the entry level, Princess as the mid level, and Seaborne as their premium North American offerings.

 

If this rationalization goes ahead, there really isn't a need for H.A.L. and the business decision will be made to merge it with Princess.

 

As the industry continues to mature, it is going to be even more about return on investment for the shareholders and the deciding factor will be the business case, emotion will have little to do with it.

[jb9991]

I am relatively new to cruising and look forward to many years (God willing & the creek don't rise ) of sailing the seas. I have enjoyed every cruise, and feel lucky to be able to afford to cruise when I can get time off. I am looking forward to my retirement when I will be more flexible to take longer cruises.

 

This thread makes me sad. It makes me feel old, I guess because I refuse to think about 10 years down the road. I will cruise as long as I'm able and will just go with the flow. I will adapt & enjoy every second on whichever ship/line I am on. I hope HAL is there with me in 10 years !

[sammiedawg]

Navybankerteacher, I spent lots of time doing price comparisons. I do not compare apples to oranges but if you compare Oceania to the Prinsendam the cost is about the same. Oceania pricing includes free air, specialty restaurants, soft drinks, specialty coffee, bottled water and some other incidentals I do not remember. If you don't want Oceania air you receive an air credit. My recent Prinsendam experience plus the airfare I purchased cost as much as an Oceania trip. Now if I had purchased the Prinsendam after final payment I would have paid less.

Our Oceania traveling companions had originally booked the itinerary on the Prinsendam, then they canceled to go on Oceania. The cost was about the same and they raved about the Oceania experience as we did.

Oceania does not fire sale cabins after final payment. Booking late might mean free gratuities or similiar perk. Unsold cabins go to employees and travel industry employees.

Oceania is more expensive than other Holland America ships besides Prinsendam. I would never compare the Ryndam with Oceania. We had a good cruise on her one year ago for a reasonable price and she was a nice ship. But I didn't see much value added on the Prinsendam for a lot more money.

Edited August 10, 2014 by sammiedawg

[iancal]

We could not imagine booking Prinsendam if we could get Oceania at a similar or slightly higher price.

 

Oceania is very high on our list to try. Prinsendam is not even on the list.

Edited August 10, 2014 by iancal

[cruz chic]

We could not imagine booking Prinsendam if we could get Oceania at a similar or slightly higher price.

 

Oceania is very high on our list to try. Prinsendam is not even on the list.

 

I agree. No way would I pay for the princedam if i could do Oceania. Thats a no brainer for me.

[Lizzie68]

When you take all the extras into consideration. Oceania certainly does seem to be the better option. All reports I've gotten from friends have been really positive about Oceania.

[CJcruzer]

I agree. No way would I pay for the princedam if i could do Oceania. Thats a no brainer for me.

 

unless for some of the unique itineraries and ports on Prinsendam sailings not offered by Oceania.

 

A few years ago, we wanted a Baltic cruise with 3 days in St. Petersburg...both Prinsendam and Oceania fit the bill...as Oceania was still in their infancy of getting established and known, there were quite a few perks thrown in - needless to say we chose Oceania and just loved it! Unfortunately, I have not sailed the Elegant Explorer (yet) so cannot comment as to comparisons.

 

Carol

[cruz chic]

Excuse the misspelling of the Prinsendam in my last post.

[cruz chic]

unless for some of the unique itineraries and ports on Prinsendam sailings not offered by Oceania.

 

A few years ago, we wanted a Baltic cruise with 3 days in St. Petersburg...both Prinsendam and Oceania fit the bill...as Oceania was still in their infancy of getting established and known, there were quite a few perks thrown in - needless to say we chose Oceania and just loved it! Unfortunately, I have not sailed the Elegant Explorer (yet) so cannot comment as to comparisons.

 

Carol

 

I've never sailed either but if i have to pay a premium it will not be on that ship. It's really a moot point for me since the only itinerary that appeals to me is the amazon. I'm not able to do it because I'm not retired and have multiple deadlines at work.

[navybankerteacher]

Navybankerteacher, I spent lots of time doing price comparisons. I do not compare apples to oranges but if you compare Oceania to the Prinsendam the cost is about the same.

 

I have not done extensive across the board comparisons, but on actual itineraries which I am contemplating for autumn 2015 in the Mediterranean, Oceania's per diem runs about $465 while that on Prinsendam run about $355 - balconies in both cases. I am not saying what Oceania offers is not worth the higher price, but the differential - over $100 per person per day is there. I am looking forward to a T/A on Prinsendam this November (absurdly reasonable, which is why I grabbed it months ago - just over $100 per diem - for a way to get home from a trip to Italy) - and will probably try Oceania some time in the future, as I am not wed to any line/ship, but I have heard enough good reports about Prinsendam to want to try her.

[UPNYGuy]

Now I'm the first to admit that I'm not the HAL cheerleader I was, but I really feel that they have a catch-22 here. They are damned if they change, and damned if they don't. They cater to a demographic that is admittedly shrinking when it comes to the cruise industry. And if Holland tries to innovate like Norwegian or Royal, all hell will break loose among the current clientele. Thus, HAL really cannot do anything to attract and maintain cruisers new to the brand. Market share projections have HAL with shrinking market cap for the last several years. Most of this IMHO is due to the fact that they have quite a bit of leakage among the "new to HAL" and super premium cabins.

 

People that are younger typically (but not always) want action and adventure and usually find HAL stuffy and stagnant. Or if they are upwardly mobile they are booking super premium cabins on NCL and RCL that are more enclave like than what HAL provides. Even Celebrity is moving in this direction.

 

And super premium pax have been jumping ship to lux and lux lite lines as well.

Edited August 15, 2014 by UPNYGuy
Adding content.

[sppunk]

Now I'm the first to admit that I'm not the HAL cheerleader I was, but I really feel that they have a catch-22 here. They are damned if they change, and damned if they don't. They cater to a demographic that is admittedly shrinking when it comes to the cruise industry. And if Holland tries to innovate like Norwegian or Royal, all hell will break loose among the current clientele. Thus, HAL really cannot do anything to attract and maintain cruisers new to the brand. Market share projections have HAL with shrinking market cap for the last several years. Most of this IMHO is due to the fact that they have quite a bit of leakage among the "new to HAL" and super premium cabins.

 

People that are younger typically (but not always) want action and adventure and usually find HAL stuffy and stagnant. Or if they are upwardly mobile they are booking super premium cabins on NCL and RCL that are more enclave like than what HAL provides. Even Celebrity is moving in this direction.

 

And super premium pax have been jumping ship to lux and lux lite lines as well.

These are all great points.

 

I guess we can be thought of as "upwardly mobile" a bit but I do not enjoy suites at all. I don't enjoy the atmosphere, don't need the extra room, and on HAL there's nothing I care about extra when booking them. That's my me, of course.

 

That said, I also have no desire to sail an active ship like NCL or RCCL and stay in a ship-within-a-ship. I just don't get it. I'd rather spend the same money and book a standard balcony on Oceania or Azamara and enjoy an entire ship that's the enclave, not a specific catered section.

 

I am in the minority but then again Viking Oceans is developing for those just like me, as did Oceania really, so maybe that's where our future leads us.

[iancal]

We are prime targets for HAL and for Celebrity. And others. HAL does nothing, absolutely nothing to attract us. And reports of intermittent engineering HVAC failures on specific ships and the apparent lack of on board management response/management access to those issues really turns us off. The latter as much as the former because it speaks to a larger issue.

 

So we cruise much more on Celebrity than we do on HAL. Our last three cruises were Celebrity, NCL, and Carnival. That being said, our next booked cruise is on Princess. And we are about to spring for an RCI cruise in October. DW did not even want to consider HAL for the Oct. cruise.

 

I think that is sad because HAL is a good line. They just need to 'pick up their socks' and move forward in a discernible direction. I hope that they do because there are lots of 'positives'.

Edited August 15, 2014 by iancal

[UPNYGuy]

These are all great points.

 

I guess we can be thought of as "upwardly mobile" a bit but I do not enjoy suites at all. I don't enjoy the atmosphere, don't need the extra room, and on HAL there's nothing I care about extra when booking them. That's my me, of course.

 

That said, I also have no desire to sail an active ship like NCL or RCCL and stay in a ship-within-a-ship. I just don't get it. I'd rather spend the same money and book a standard balcony on Oceania or Azamara and enjoy an entire ship that's the enclave, not a specific catered section.

 

I am in the minority but then again Viking Oceans is developing for those just like me, as did Oceania really, so maybe that's where our future leads us.

 

 

DW and I are some of those that have moved to The Haven on Norwegian. The Suite facilities are vastly superior, plus we like the ability to have facilities that exceed luxury lines, but have access to mainstream ship facilities when we choose. All I'll say is that most of the people we've met in The Haven are former HAL loyalists who want more out of a cruise line, and a better cruise experience. We aren't itinerary driven, as we sail primarily to relax and get away. The Haven provides exactly that... An escape at sea

 

And sppunk,

 

You yourself said that Oceana and Azamara have been calling out... this is the problem. People that want HAL "the way it was" (or want a better experience) are booking away from them. Repeat pax who want the current "no nonsense" holland experience but with less cost cutting are booking into luxury lite lines because they are tired of the cost cutting (moreso the 3 and 4 stars). And younger pax who have never cruised (or low star level) are booking active ships for family purposes.

 

I would never use it, but I really don't think it would hurt HAL to put in a water slide. I know lots of older folks that are full of life that would love it!

 

 

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Edited August 15, 2014 by UPNYGuy

[LAFFNVEGAS]

DW and I are some of those that have moved to The Haven on Norwegian. The Suite facilities are vastly superior, plus we like the ability to have facilities that exceed luxury lines, but have access to mainstream ship facilities when we choose. All I'll say is that most of the people we've met in The Haven are former HAL loyalists who want more out of a cruise line, and a better cruise experience. We aren't itinerary driven, as we sail primarily to relax and get away. The Haven provides exactly that... An escape at sea

 

 

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I totally agree and actually have found that we do not even have to be in The Haven. Regular Suite Experience is also a few step up from HAL Neptune Suites. My next cruise we are actually in just a Mini Suite. Could not beat the price we got. The year of 2014 will find us sailing only NCL. While for many years HAL was the only cruise line we cruised on times have changed and our preference really is NCL

Oddly I still feel the CC HAL board is home and prefer to chat here but my vacation dollars are being spent with NCL :o

[UPNYGuy]

I totally agree and actually have found that we do not even have to be in The Haven. Regular Suite Experience is also a few step up from HAL Neptune Suites. My next cruise we are actually in just a Mini Suite. Could not beat the price we got. The year of 2014 will find us sailing only NCL. While for many years HAL was the only cruise line we cruised on times have changed and our preference really is NCL

 

Oddly I still feel the CC HAL board is home and prefer to chat here but my vacation dollars are being spent with NCL :o

 

 

Agree... We have been in a mini suite on the Breakaway, and found it more than adequate (HAL is larger however). But the BA Haven is to die for. Our next BA cruise will be in an owners suite.

 

 

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