Calculation of Port Fees and Taxes

[cruiser1444]

Hi,

 

I am looking at several cruises that are on offer, and wanted to see if someone could help breakdown the actual amount charged for port fees/charges/taxes. The goal is to be able to take any base fare from a discounted TA, and then be able to add a set number to it to get to a final price, therefore being able to see if it fits into my budget or not.

 

I would imagine it to be a case of Port X charges Y per diem, plus a tax of Z% on either the base fare or the fare+charges.

 

Is there a list of the taxes and charges per port anywhere?

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

[thinfool]

 

Is there a list of the taxes and charges per port anywhere?

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

 

No, not that are available to the public. Furthermore, port charges, the taxes involved are, very often, a moving target.

[paul929207]

I have never seen a list like you are looking for

[Mary Ellen]

Not gonna happen. What you want is not a simple number.

 

Everyone - including the cruise lines - is confused by port charges and taxes. They are extremely complicated, differ greatly from port to port and country to country, and are constantly changing.

 

There are many different port taxes and fees charged to a cruise ship.

 

Many - but certainly not all - ports charge a fixed dollar amount for each paying passenger onboard the ship. But this number can go up or down with very little warning. Quite often, this amount as a part of the port taxes you paid several months ago when you booked the cruise has changed - up or down - by the time your ship goes to that particular port. When you board you then find a small refund - or a small additional charge - that reflects the change.

 

Some ports (not all) charge fixed wharfage and head taxes based on the size of the ship rather than the number of paying passengers onboard. Then the cruise line has to calculate the port taxes by dividing the overall port charges by number of paying passengers actually onboard the ship on the day of that particular port visit. If your cruise is very full you may pay lower fees and taxes than if it was not so full.

 

Many ports have several piers. Some piers carry higher port charges and taxes than other piers. It is often the case that a cruise ship Captain is not sure which pier he will be assigned to until just a day or even a few hours before he arrives in the port. In San Juan for example, the fees and taxes for a ship visiting for the day at the Old Town piers are far higher than the fees for a ship visiting or turning around at the Panamerican Piers across the harbor.

At Sydney harbor, we like to dock at "the Rocks", just across from the Opera House. We pay much higher fees, but the location is great for our passengers. But if a large ship that cannot fit under the Sydney Harbort Bridge happens to show up, they get priority and we are shifted to the new Sydney Terminal in Darling Harbor. We pay far less in fees and taxes at the new terminal, but it is not nearly as convenient.

 

Many ports charge by the hour or by a segment of hours. If a ship stays longer at a pier, it is charged more money. Those charges are passed on to the passengers.

 

In some countries, a ship pays higher - or lower - fees and taxes depending on which country the cruise originated in.

 

Two or three times every month (on average) I receive an email from the Head Office explaining how much more I need to charge - or refund - every new guest because one or more ports or countries has changed the tax or fee structure at one or more ports on our itinerary.

 

In some ports, the cruise line has a special deal with one pier owner or another, giving them lower port charges, which are passed on to the passengers. In St Thomas, for example, HAL, Princess, and Cunard ships normally go to the the Sub Base Pier and pay substantially lower fees than the other ships that go to the Havensight pier downtown.

At Key West, the smaller ships are allowed to dock right down town - and pay much higher fees than the bigger ships that are docked at the Navy Pier.

 

When my ship was in Shanghai last week, we were small enough to fit under the bridge and tie up at the end of the Bund in the center of town. We paid a substantial premium for that. Our Royal Caribbean competitors could not fit their ship in the Huang Pu river and instead had to go to the Container Terminal quite a way out of town. Even though they are much bigger than us, they paid lower fees.

 

Are you confused yet? We usually are. And I have only scratched the surface of the myriad of factors that cause the confusion that surrounds port charges, fees, and taxes.

 

How is this all controlled?

Several years ago, a few cruise lines were caught inflating taxes and fees for passengers.

The State of Florida brought major lawsuits against those lines, won the lawsuits, and the lines had to pay many millions in penalties.

From that point on, several US Government Organisations monitor and audit fees and taxes charged by all the cruise lines calling at US ports, keeping everyone honest.

[sail7seas]

No, not that are available to the public. Furthermore, port charges, the taxes involved are, very often, a moving target.

 

I have never seen a list like you are looking for

 

^^ Yes and Yes.

 

Port charges and taxes change. They go up and actually sometimes go down

Call HAL and ask about specific cruises in which you are interested but keep in mind, they reserve the right to adjust as various countries may adjust the amount the cruise line is charged pp.

 

[cruiser1444]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

So, I can conclude:

 

Tax, in regard to cruises is not calculated as a percentage? This seems unusual.

 

The port charges part, regarding hours in port/pax is interesting, but does it really change?

 

If Port of Miami Pier 11 charges a price to dock there, I would imagine that is a constant, even if the hours in port and the pax# might be variable.

 

I'm really surprised that there isn't more clarity on this, with airlines the fees are reasonably consistent (once you understand the codes and rules).

[sail7seas]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

So, I can conclude:

 

Tax, in regard to cruises is not calculated as a percentage? This seems unusual.

 

The port charges part, regarding hours in port/pax is interesting, but does it really change?

 

If Port of Miami Pier 11 charges a price to dock there, I would imagine that is a constant, even if the hours in port and the pax# might be variable.

 

I'm really surprised that there isn't more clarity on this, with airlines the fees are reasonably consistent (once you understand the codes and rules).

 

 

 

Each country/each port sets their own port fees and they can change them whenever they wish. Thus, the cruise line has to be free to change them. Not everything always 'makes sense' or is carved in stone.

 

[cruiser1444]

Each country/each port sets their own port fees and they can change them whenever they wish. Thus, the cruise line has to be free to change them. Not everything always 'makes sense' or is carved in stone.

 

 

Just to be argumentative, would a more accurate answer be as per above, that there is a system, but you don't know what it is?

[CruiserBruce]

Each port charges fees based on different calculations. You are assuming that every port uses the same formula, but the truth is the exact opposite. Each port charges based on a number of variables, including any contracts a cruise line may have for services, like water, fuel or power received.

 

So, there is no hard and fast rule, like per passenger, or a percentage. Remember, on a given 7 day cruise you might be dealing with 5 or 6 different ports/cities/countries, so you might have 5 or 6 different ways of assessing taxes and fees.

Edited October 20, 2014 by CruiserBruce

[cruiser1444]

Each port charges fees based on different calculations. You are assuming that every port uses the same formula, but the truth is the exact opposite. Each port charges based on a number of variables, including any contracts a cruise line may have for services, like water, fuel or power received.

 

So, there is no hard and fast rule, like per passenger, or a percentage. Remember, on a given 7 day cruise you might be dealing with 5 or 6 different ports/cities/countries, so you might have 5 or 6 different ways of assessing taxes and fees.

 

No, in my question I assumed each port charged a different amount. I've been on many cruises and know the difference between a prime spot and a secondary location. STT is a good example of that.

 

My thinking was that if each port has a tariff the you could ballpark the fees- then the taxes ought to be somehow a percentage of that.

 

That way, if cruise 1 had 4 ports and cruise 2 had 5 you could work out a ballpark, and if you knew 5 was Charlotte Amelie you could further refine.

 

As a concept it's no different from flying through different airports, each has their own fee and tax schedule that can be broken down. Fly from NY to Istanbul via Frankfurt costs more than direct for taxes due to German departure and (air)port taxes.

 

Fair point about contracts to discount, but again shouldn't that be something that can be observed?

 

Even if you don't know the source of the pricing, I'd have thought there would be enough empirical evidence from a segment of the size of cruise critic to be reasonably accurate.

Edited October 20, 2014 by cruiser1444

[sail7seas]

deleted

Edited October 20, 2014 by sail7seas

[cruiser1444]

Deleted

 

I do appreciate your effort to help, but I'm just not sold on the answer yet :)

Edited October 20, 2014 by cruiser1444

[sail7seas]

Seems I was deleting while you were posting. :)

You may wish to delete my response as I don't think it a helpful post.

[CruiserBruce]

I'll try.

 

But I would think that the answer isn't 'the port makes up a random number each day' I think that there is a little more forethought to pricing than that?

 

I asked because I thought someone might know here, and someone still might. I find it amazing that nobody would know how taxes and fees are calculated.

 

It isn't that ports make up the fees everyday. It is that there are as many variables as there are ports to stop in. That is what we have been trying to say. You seem to believe there is one formula. There isn't. It can be number of pax. It can be weight or length of ship. It can be time in port. It can be number of berths. It can be other items. Included will be tug and pilot fees, which are different in each port. Some ports have contracts with certain cruise lines which may reduce or otherwise alter the formula.

 

If you want to research each port, looking for their laws, regulations and taxes, you might be able to answer your question.

Edited October 20, 2014 by CruiserBruce

[CaveDiving]

Just to be argumentative, would a more accurate answer be as per above, that there is a system, but you don't know what it is?

 

Of course there is a system or each shipping line could make up its own numbers. But what you are being told is that the system can be radically different for different countries and perhaps even different for various ports within a single country, and that the systems can change without any advance notice.

 

The good news is that even though there is no simple technique to determine the port charges and fees, the information is not secret. You can call the cruise lines and they will give you the breakdown of the fees for any specific cruise.

 

Scott & Karen

[Scrapnana]

The taxes, fees and port charges are such a small percentage of the total cost of a cruise that I never give them much thought.

 

You can always check what they will be on the cruise line's website but as mentioned they can change. They have gone up about $35 for my next cruise.

[cherylandtk]

Matt, you could start here

http://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/Agents-Finding-Alternatives-to-Cruises-To-Compensate-for-NCFs

 

The inclusive port fees are the bulk of the NCF amount and run from 8-14% of the fare. The per person taxes are in addition and are identical for each sailing per person regardless of whether you use a discount TA or not.

 

I am still not sure what sort of calculation you are looking for, but the final price is always going to be the quoted fare plus the port fees/taxes. The port fees/taxes are the same regardless of where you book your cruise.

[marco]

OP: Good luck!!! Last year I wanted to know exactly who go how much out of the total port taxes and fees we were paying. TA didn't know and suggested I call the line. After asking me my name, TA's name, and booking confirmation #, I was told "that is not public information". I understand what "Port taxes" are, but what exactly are "fees" when they quote "port taxes and fees"? I'm assuming some of the charges vary by # of passengers, size of ship, time in port, etc, as the last time we cruised to Bermuda two options were both ships out of NYC, both ships to Bermuda, both ships same length of cruise........"port taxes and fee" were different amounts.

[CPT Trips]

OP: Good luck!!! Last year I wanted to know exactly who go how much out of the total port taxes and fees we were paying. TA didn't know and suggested I call the line. After asking me my name, TA's name, and booking confirmation #, I was told "that is not public information". I understand what "Port taxes" are, but what exactly are "fees" when they quote "port taxes and fees"? I'm assuming some of the charges vary by # of passengers, size of ship, time in port, etc, as the last time we cruised to Bermuda two options were both ships out of NYC, both ships to Bermuda, both ships same length of cruise........"port taxes and fee" were different amounts.

 

Sometimes it's even more confusing than that. On one cruise we looked at the TA site and the cruise line site had different amounts for port taxes and fees, but the bottom line price was the same.

 

That said, what's the worry? To get on the boat, you need to pay what the cruise line says you have to pay - the bottom line. I don't really care what they call the above the line amounts: fare, port fees, tax, NCF or even per dime service fee/tips. Add them all up and that's the minimum I need to budget.

[rockdoctor]

I tried reading the Tariffs at the Port of Galverston and was flabbergasted. There were per foot charges, per passenger charges, per hour charges, overtime and weekend charges, per day charges, per ton charges, port entry charges for service vehicles, charges to take on water. I understand the Panama Canal has per berth charges, per line charges (for towing). Sadly, just tell me how much to pay!

[BruceMuzz]

I tried reading the Tariffs at the Port of Galverston and was flabbergasted. There were per foot charges, per passenger charges, per hour charges, overtime and weekend charges, per day charges, per ton charges, port entry charges for service vehicles, charges to take on water. I understand the Panama Canal has per berth charges, per line charges (for towing). Sadly, just tell me how much to pay!

 

You have barely scratched the surface on tarriffs and fees.

There are also linesmen fees (add an extra $10,000 if they are required to touch a line before 7am), luggage loading and unloading fees for turnarounds, provision loading and garbage offloading fees, rental fees for conveyer belts and forklifts, Wharfage fees, hazardous waste fees, bilge water offloading fees, sewage sludge offloading fees, required tugboat fees ($176,000 in San Francisco), port security staff fees, rental fees for x-ray machines and metal detectors in the terminal, harbor pilot fees, port agent fees, and endless others.

[Keith1010]

No list. It can vary by size of ship.

 

Keith

[cruzinnluvinit]

I would love a list of the cheap ports. I booked a 7 day Caribbean and the collective fees are equal to a 21 day cruise (different line) with the same plus more ports. That just doesn't make sense.

[sail7seas]

I would love a list of the cheap ports. I booked a 7 day Caribbean and the collective fees are equal to a 21 day cruise (different line) with the same plus more ports. That just doesn't make sense.

 

I read your post three times and if I understand what you are saying, you are right that makes no sense. There is something very wrong and you should investigate. It isn't possible for it to cost as much in port fees/taxes on a seven day Caribbean cruise as you would pay for a 21 day cruise on any cruise line that can pass USPH and USCG inspections.

 

A Panama Canal cruise has high fees as the cost of sending a ship through the locks is very pricey but even still, it would not pay for a 21 day cruise.

 

[AmazedByCruising]

There are also linesmen fees (add an extra $10,000 if they are required to touch a line before 7am)

 

I know this is an old thread, but what are typical linesmen fees after 7am? This is about catching a rope and putting it around a bollard?