Passport Debate

[awhcruiser]

See post #16

If you are American, you do NOT need a passport for a closed loop cruise in the Caribbean. Period.

[matj2000]

See post #16

 

I am wondering what sort of emergency will make me need to fly home???

Edited December 29, 2014 by matj2000

[sparks1093]

See post #16

 

You don't need the passport for the cruise itself, but for something that might happen (but probably won't for most people).

Edited December 29, 2014 by sparks1093

[internetwhiz]

I am wondering what sort of emergency will make me need to fly home???

 

 

My mother who is 92 could pass away.

 

My grandchild who has critical health issues gets bad, suddenly.

 

I fall down the steps in the casino and have to be airlifted home after being in the hospital in St. Maarten (know someone this happened to).

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[awhcruiser]

Sudden death of a family member? Not saying it will happen but you never know.

I am wondering what sort of emergency will make me need to fly home???

[sparks1093]

My mother who is 92 could pass away.

 

My grandchild who has critical health issues gets bad, suddenly.

 

I fall down the steps in the casino and have to be airlifted home after being in the hospital in St. Maarten (know someone this happened to).

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Sudden death of a family member? Not saying it will happen but you never know.

 

I believe the PP was referring to himself and his own level of risk regarding something happening specifically to him, so he probably wouldn't return from his vacation if a family member died or got seriously sick (or he may not have any immediate family to worry about) and he may feel impervious to any sudden medical maladies vis a vis himself, including the random fall down the stairs type injuries. If he assesses his own level of risk at 0 that's his decision and if he's wrong the Consulate will still do everything they can to get him home as quickly as the circumstances dictate.

Edited December 29, 2014 by sparks1093

[internetwhiz]

I believe the PP was referring to himself and his own level of risk regarding something happening specifically to him, so he probably wouldn't return from his vacation if a family member died or got seriously sick (or he may not have any immediate family to worry about) and he may feel impervious to any sudden medical maladies vis a vis himself, including the random fall down the stairs type injuries. If he assesses his own level of risk at 0 that's his decision and if he's wrong the Consulate will still do everything they can to get him home as quickly as the circumstances dictate.

 

 

Oh, absolutely. As long as passports are not required by US Customs, people definitely have the choice not to have one. I know people who have cruised for years without one.

 

I just choose what what would make it easier for me to get home if I needed to for whatever reason. The cost amortized out is about two or three Starbucks coffees a year. It's worth it to me.

 

 

 

 

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[WupperAV]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/passenger-board-ms-marco-polo-killed-wave-hits/story?id=22529571 HMM! Maybe that would make you want to get a passport if you were the one seriously injured or would you rather a third world country Dr amputate your leg and botch the whole thing. As for me, I'd rather be on a plane headed for a reputable military or civilian hospital. I really don't care if you get a passport or not, I just tried to say what I would do. If you don't want recommendations don't ask people for them. Edited January 1, 2015 by WupperAV

[MrsPete]

But when people point out the risks people take, they should present those risks realistically

Yes, I agree. Most of the passport-faithful grossly overstate the possibility of needing to leave the ship, of being left behind on an island, and of being able to fly home.

 

Make your own choices, but make them based upon realistic risks -- not fear.

 

My own opinion: If you're JUST going to take one cruise, a $100+ passport with an expiration date isn't a particularly good value. On the other hand, if you're going to need it for a variety of other travel, go ahead and get the passport that you'll need anyway.

If you get sick or injured and have to leave the ship, you will most likely need to fly home.

 

If you miss a ship at a port you most likely will have to fly home or between countries to catch up to the ship

 

If there is a family emergency where you have to leave the ship and get home you will need to fly.

 

Most don't but every cruise there are a few that need to leave the ship and will need to fly home.

Again, I believe in being realistic. Let's say you're doing Royal's typical Western run on the Oasis, and let's consider that oft-repeated "Oh, my, what if we have a family emergency!" and see how useful that passport would actually be:

 

Sunday -- You're scheduled to leave Ft. Lauderdale probably around 5:00. If you were to receive bad news before the ship leaves, you could probably just disembark. If news came to you after 5:00, you'd be out to sea, and no amount of documentation would allow you to fly home. The passport won't affect your choices.

 

Monday -- You're at sea. Again, no matter what's in your wallet, you're not flying home.

 

Tuesday -- You're in Labadee, Hati, which is Royal's private island. You cannot get transporation out of the private compound. You cannot fly home.

 

Wednesday -- You're in Falmouth, Jamaica. Yes, assuming you can get a flight out of this small country's airport and assuming you're willing to pay the last-minute price, your passport will allow you to fly home.

 

Thursday -- Another day at sea. If bad news comes to you today, you cannot fly home, no matter how much you want to do so and no matter what type of ID you have.

 

Friday -- You're in Cozumel, Mexico. Yes, you can get a flight home, but you'll likely have to travel to the mainland to get the flight. Realistically, you're not going to be able to fly out until after noon, which means you'll probably arrive home late Friday /early Saturday -- which isn't significantly earlier than your scheduled time. And you'll be paying a last-minute, very expensive price for it.

 

Saturday -- You're at sea again, no possibility of leaving.

 

Sunday -- You're back to Fort Lauderdale anyway.

 

 

The realistic point: You're kind of "trapped" once you're on the ship. If you wanted to fly home, a passport would allow you to do it on TWO days of your trip. The other five days, you're screwed.

 

I say make your own decision based upon your own needs, but if you genuinely fear that you might need to leave mid-vacation . . . a cruise probably isn't your best choice.

Each of us has out own comfort level (or maybe that is our own perception of risk), and makes our own choices. I have had a passport since 1968, and it has taken me to well over 100 countries. I NEVER buy cruise insurance, as I think it is overpriced, and I am willing (but hope not to) eat the few thousand dollars cost of the trip. I think that sparks1093 correctly identifies the big risk - medevac:eek: - and I carry annual $100k medevac insurance which costs less than cruise insurance for a single cruise. I save enough not getting individual cruise insurance to pay for another cruise about every two years (yes, we do travel a fair amount). And I take my passport on those cruises, whether required or not.:)

 

Thom

We always buy travel insurance, but we don't buy from the cruise company itself. Why not? Because their only option is, Travel Insurance -- Want it? Yes or no?

 

Instead, we buy from an online insurance company, and we buy JUST the insurance we actually need. Our medical insurance will reimburse us for costs incurred out of the country, and since we drive to the port we don't need to insure our bags against loss -- not when we ourselves are going to hand them to the porters. What we DO need is, as you said, medical evacuation insurance, which is highly unlikely to be used -- and that's why it doesn't cost much for that one thing.

If one can afford to cruise, one can afford a passport that will last them 10 years ;)

Yes, but many things I can afford aren't good values for my personal circumstances.

Affordability is only one part of the equation. When we started cruising it would have cost my family in the neighborhood of $900 for passports for a 4 day cruise. Now, had we needed them we would have found a way to work it into the budget or we would have chosen a different form of vacation. However, we had an option that didn't cost anything extra that really didn't pose that much of an added risk so it didn't make sense to get something that wasn't absolutely needed. We decided to wait to get passports until we reached the point in our life where we needed them for international air travel. That time is almost here- we are planning on taking a trip to Germany next year and will be applying for passports in January:).

This makes perfect sense. You've considered your personal needs.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/passenger-board-ms-marco-polo-killed-wave-hits/story?id=22529571 HMM! Maybe that would make you want to get a passport if you were the one seriously injured or would you rather a third world country Dr amputate your leg and botch the whole thing. As for me, I'd rather be on a plane headed for a reputable military or civilian hospital. I really don't care if you get a passport or not, I just tried to say what I would do. If you don't want recommendations don't ask people for them.

See, this is the kind of drivel that makes me argue the "think for yourself, evaluate your actual risks" side of this argument. Does anyone actually believe that the choices are really 1) buy a passport or 2) have your leg cut off in a 3rd world country? You're completely ignoring about 95% of the things that would actually happen if you were involved in a serious accident; for example, onboard medical treatment, which islands you're near, availability of transport, immediacy of need.

[Coralc]

I made my mom get her first passport ever, at age 80. We were flying into Vancouver for an Alaska cruise. She had a wonderful time.

 

6 months after we got back, she called to tell me that she had booked a trip to China with the Chamber of Commerce. So she went to China too. Having a passport opened all kinds of doors for her. She also went up to Churchill, through Winnipeg to see the polar bears.

 

I've never been to China. Having the passport gave her the opportunity to do things she wouldn't have otherwise done. I'm not going to worry about her renewal. Having a passport is a fun thing! :D

[nelblu]

Since you live in Michigan, you can get an "enhanced drivers license" to serve the same purpose as a passport. You can apply right at the SOS office (get the forms & list of required docs on their website). Only takes about 2 weeks and much cheaper than a passport. With this you do not need to bring any other docs with you on the cruise. These are valid for travel ( by car or cruise only) into Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. We have been using ours for years with no issues.

 

What is an enhanced driver's license and how does it differ from a State DL, with photo.

[TravelerThom]

What is an enhanced driver's license and how does it differ from a State DL, with photo.

EDLs are issued by a few states and are DLs with photo that in addition provide essentially the same benefits as a passport card (eg allows surface but not air entry into the US). They are issued by a few states (I think currently only Washington State, Vermont, New York, and Michigan, but others are looking into it) in conjunction with the Department of Homeland Security, require proof of citizenship comparable to that presented if applying for a passport, and they contain a radio-frequency microchip that uniquely identifies you in CBP databases. The Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec also have EDLs that are acceptable for surface entry into the US. I think that I am correct that holders of EDLs gain no additional benefit from having a Passport Card - EDLs are a single card which provides the functions of both a Driver's License and a Passport Card. Great for people who live near the border and cross often by surface; not that useful for the rest of us. Being the functional equivalent of a Passport Card it should be accepted for closed loop cruises - assuming that the check-in agent in Florida has ever heard of a Washington State or Manitoba EDL:rolleyes:.

 

Thom

[matj2000]

I think everyone should just stay home all the time.

 

Who knows what kind of emergency will happen you go outside.....

Edited January 1, 2015 by matj2000

[nelblu]

EDLs are issued by a few states and are DLs with photo that in addition provide essentially the same benefits as a passport card (eg allows surface but not air entry into the US). They are issued by a few states (I think currently only Washington State, Vermont, New York, and Michigan, but others are looking into it) in conjunction with the Department of Homeland Security, require proof of citizenship comparable to that presented if applying for a passport, and they contain a radio-frequency microchip that uniquely identifies you in CBP databases. The Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec also have EDLs that are acceptable for surface entry into the US. I think that I am correct that holders of EDLs gain no additional benefit from having a Passport Card - EDLs are a single card which provides the functions of both a Driver's License and a Passport Card. Great for people who live near the border and cross often by surface; not that useful for the rest of us. Being the functional equivalent of a Passport Card it should be accepted for closed loop cruises - assuming that the check-in agent in Florida has ever heard of a Washington State or Manitoba EDL:rolleyes:.

 

Thom

 

Makes sense if you live near a border. I wonder if those states bordering Mexico will introduce these EDL's. Lol

[TravelerThom]

Makes sense if you live near a border. I wonder if those states bordering Mexico will introduce these EDL's. Lol

I think that I missed Minnesota which rather recently started EDLs. According to the internet, states that are considering or working on implementing EDLs are Idaho, North Dakota and Maine on the Canadian border, and all states (California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas) on the Mexican border. Nothing preclude states in the middle of the US from having EDLs, but they tend to be most useful for people living near an international border. EDLs cost more than regular DLs (which I think are still issued by all these states), but the cost premium (set by each state) is comparable or maybe a little less than getting a separate Passport Card.

 

Thom

[knittinggirl]

If for some reason, you must return by air, you WILL need a passport to reenter the US.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

I made my mom get her first passport ever, at age 80. We were flying into Vancouver for an Alaska cruise. She had a wonderful time.

 

6 months after we got back, she called to tell me that she had booked a trip to China with the Chamber of Commerce. So she went to China too. Having a passport opened all kinds of doors for her. She also went up to Churchill, through Winnipeg to see the polar bears.

 

I've never been to China. Having the passport gave her the opportunity to do things she wouldn't have otherwise done. I'm not going to worry about her renewal. Having a passport is a fun thing! :D

Cool! I didn't know that. Passports actually pay for trips out of the country? Wow! And they arrange for you to have time off work? How did that slip by?

 

Speaking personally, a passport is the LAST thing preventing me from from going out of the country. I love the "open doors" argument... "without a passport, you can't fly to Europe on a moment's notice. It happened to my wife's cousin's brother once. Someone had an extra ticket and offered it to him".

[sparks1093]

I made my mom get her first passport ever, at age 80. We were flying into Vancouver for an Alaska cruise. She had a wonderful time.

 

6 months after we got back, she called to tell me that she had booked a trip to China with the Chamber of Commerce. So she went to China too. Having a passport opened all kinds of doors for her. She also went up to Churchill, through Winnipeg to see the polar bears.

 

I've never been to China. Having the passport gave her the opportunity to do things she wouldn't have otherwise done. I'm not going to worry about her renewal. Having a passport is a fun thing! :D

 

She absolutely need the passport to reach Vancouver by air. Now if she were on a cruise from Seattle to Alaska returning to Alaska then she would not have needed a passport (unless of course she were going to take a shore excursion crossing into Canada from Alaska, but a passport card would have worked).

[sparks1093]

If for some reason, you must return by air, you WILL need a passport to reenter the US.

 

IF you must return by air you would need to obtain an emergency travel document from the Consulate, which may or may not be a passport depending on the circumstances.

[sparks1093]

EDLs are issued by a few states and are DLs with photo that in addition provide essentially the same benefits as a passport card (eg allows surface but not air entry into the US). They are issued by a few states (I think currently only Washington State, Vermont, New York, and Michigan, but others are looking into it) in conjunction with the Department of Homeland Security, require proof of citizenship comparable to that presented if applying for a passport, and they contain a radio-frequency microchip that uniquely identifies you in CBP databases. The Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec also have EDLs that are acceptable for surface entry into the US. I think that I am correct that holders of EDLs gain no additional benefit from having a Passport Card - EDLs are a single card which provides the functions of both a Driver's License and a Passport Card. Great for people who live near the border and cross often by surface; not that useful for the rest of us. Being the functional equivalent of a Passport Card it should be accepted for closed loop cruises - assuming that the check-in agent in Florida has ever heard of a Washington State or Manitoba EDL:rolleyes:.

 

Thom

 

The benefit of only having to carry one document, that we normally carry anyway, is what swayed us to get the EDL's so I'm glad we live in a state that issues them:). (And all of the check in agents have to be trained to recognize what is acceptable and if they have any questions of course they have their supervisor.)

[MrsPete]

Cool! I didn't know that. Passports actually pay for trips out of the country? Wow! And they arrange for you to have time off work? How did that slip by?

 

Speaking personally, a passport is the LAST thing preventing me from from going out of the country. I love the "open doors" argument... "without a passport, you can't fly to Europe on a moment's notice. It happened to my wife's cousin's brother once. Someone had an extra ticket and offered it to him".

Yes, this falls in line with my "think for yourself and decide whether a passport is a need for you in your personal circumstances" concept.

 

I don't buy into the idea of, "Wow, now that I have this passport, I'll become an international traveler!" If were already a traveler and had plans to travel extensively (for pleasure or for work), then you need a passport. If you're going on one cruise once . . . it's not such a good value.

The benefit of only having to carry one document, that we normally carry anyway, is what swayed us to get the EDL's so I'm glad we live in a state that issues them:). (And all of the check in agents have to be trained to recognize what is acceptable and if they have any questions of course they have their supervisor.)

Yes, I think we should move towards a national license, which would take the place of all other IDs. It would be an item that everyone would need /carry for daily use, so it wouldn't be a waste of money. And since all law enforcement officers would be trained to recognize that one ID, it'd be harder for forgers to create fakes.

[pcur]

Just to add another wrinkle to this debate, I saw on your other posts that your travelling with your daughter and granddaughter. Make sure you have the correct documentation for your granddaughter too. Here is a link to the family legal documents that are required. Take note of what is needed if your granddaughter has a different last name than her mother.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/beforeyouboard/travelDocumentation.do?cS=NAVBAR&pnav=3&snav=5

 

Also, this page:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/beforeyouboard/passportGuidelines.do

[sparks1093]

Yes, I think we should move towards a national license, which would take the place of all other IDs. It would be an item that everyone would need /carry for daily use, so it wouldn't be a waste of money. And since all law enforcement officers would be trained to recognize that one ID, it'd be harder for forgers to create fakes.

 

The REAL ID act is probably as close as we will get to a national ID for quite a while. Having one license nationwide would be a nightmare (dealing with my local DMV is bad enough:eek:).