HAL no longer requires formal dress

[RocketMan275]

I read this a lot on these threads and it is one of the most dumb statements I read. Of course the manner of dress of the other passengers could bother you, if you are at all sensitive to your surroundings. If the ship's carpet is shag instead of pile if the carpet or the walls are painted in garish brash colors or muted colors all add to the ambiance of a cruise. What you wear is part of the backdrop for the ambiance as much as any other part of the ship's décor.

 

Your ego may say be true to yourself and let the rest of the world get over it. But to people who do not know you or may not even care to know you, you are just part of the décor and ambiance of their environment and you may add to that ambiance or detract from that ambiance.

 

For example what gives Venice beach its ambiance is not so much the Sand and Sea for which there are a number of California beaches with similar backdrops but rather the vast array of quirky people who haunt the beach.

 

People are a very important factor, perhaps even the most important factor, in determining the ambiance (enjoyablity or unenjoyabilty) of an activity or place for which cruising is both. Not just the how other people act but also how they dress and speak.

 

The 'ambiance' of those who like to dress up is no more important than the 'ambiance' of those who do not. Anyone whose feelings are hurt by how someone else chooses to dress on a cruise ship needs to get over it. Take a deep breath, have another drink, and consider just how fortunate you are to be on a cruise ship having such problems. If that doesn't work, rinse and repeat.

[cruz chic]

The 'ambiance' of those who like to dress up is no more important than the 'ambiance' of those who do not. Anyone whose feelings are hurt by how someone else chooses to dress on a cruise ship needs to get over it. Take a deep breath, have another drink, and consider just how fortunate you are to be on a cruise ship having such problems. If that doesn't work, rinse and repeat.

 

Right. The konginsdam should be decorated like the inside of McDonald's then. Just because people take pride in their appearance there is no reason to put them down in this manner:rolleyes:. Really offensive.

[RocketMan275]

Right. The konginsdam should be decorated like the inside of McDonald's then. Just because people take pride in their appearance there is no reason to put them down in this manner:rolleyes:. Really offensive.

 

There is no reason to take offense. My comments were in no manner critical of those who take pride in their appearance. I was critical of those who insist that their 'ambiance' is more important than the 'ambiance' of others. :)

[cruz chic]

There is no reason to take offense. My comments were in no manner critical of those who take pride in their appearance. I was critical of those who insist that their 'ambiance' is more important than the 'ambiance' of others. :)

 

What ambiance does dressing in a very casual manner create? I guess that's why Hal has totally dumbed down their "gala" menu to go with the casual nature. Personally I'd rather have the nicer menu that they used to have and dress for it.

[RocketMan275]

What ambiance does dressing in a very casual manner create? I guess that's why Hal has totally dumbed down their "gala" menu to go with the casual nature. Personally I'd rather have the nicer menu that they used to have and dress for it.

 

'Ambiance is usually defined as "the mood, character, quality, tone, atmosphere, etc., particularly of an environment or milieu". There is nothing in that definition that requires a formal environment. To a very great extent, one can create 'ambiance' by how they feel about their environment. You will have far more success with less stress by learning to control your feelings than you will trying to control the actions of others.

 

How passengers dress is simply not a factor in the quality of the food served about ships. The 'dumbing down' of menus was driven entirely by the need to reduce costs in order to compete with other mass market cruise lines. In fact, most of the more expensive, more exclusive, more luxurious cruise lines adopted a form of formal optional dinner nights long ago without degrading their food. But, then, they don't have to compete with the mass market lines.

 

Gala Nights were only announced a short time ago, maybe six weeks? I rather doubt HAL has already changed the menus.

Edited November 26, 2015 by RocketMan275

[dogo88]

'Ambiance is usually defined as "the mood, character, quality, tone, atmosphere, etc., particularly of an environment or milieu". There is nothing in that definition that requires a formal environment. To a very great extent, one can create 'ambiance' by how they feel about their environment. You will have far more success with less stress by learning to control your feelings than you will trying to control the actions of others.

 

How passengers dress is simply not a factor in the quality of the food served about ships. The 'dumbing down' of menus was driven entirely by the need to reduce costs in order to compete with other mass market cruise lines. In fact, most of the more expensive, more exclusive, more luxurious cruise lines adopted a form of formal optional dinner nights long ago without degrading their food. But, then, they don't have to compete with the mass market lines.

 

Gala Nights were only announced a short time ago, maybe six weeks? I rather doubt HAL has already changed the menus.

 

Well said.

 

Dan

[cruz chic]

'Ambiance is usually defined as "the mood, character, quality, tone, atmosphere, etc., particularly of an environment or milieu". There is nothing in that definition that requires a formal environment. To a very great extent, one can create 'ambiance' by how they feel about their environment. You will have far more success with less stress by learning to control your feelings than you will trying to control the actions of others.

 

How passengers dress is simply not a factor in the quality of the food served about ships. The 'dumbing down' of menus was driven entirely by the need to reduce costs in order to compete with other mass market cruise lines. In fact, most of the more expensive, more exclusive, more luxurious cruise lines adopted a form of formal optional dinner nights long ago without degrading their food. But, then, they don't have to compete with the mass market lines.

 

Gala Nights were only announced a short time ago, maybe six weeks? I rather doubt HAL has already changed the menus.

 

I am not stressed about it. I'm amazed at how this gets pulled out of the bag of tricks as soon as someone doesn't agree with an opinion. The put downs and telling people to chill out and calm down if they don't agree with you is what I refer to as offensive. Some get it, some don't. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited November 26, 2015 by cruz chic

[JPH814]

Michael Corleone: "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."

 

I promised myself not to get in this conversation again.

 

Those (of us) who feel a room takes on a different atmosphere - a more enjoyable ambiance - when people are dressed up will regret the trend toward more casual meals.

 

 

Those who want to wear whatever they want - the "its my vacation" crowd - will never understand.

[cruz chic]

Michael Corleone: "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."

 

I promised myself not to get in this conversation again.

 

Those (of us) who feel a room takes on a different atmosphere - a more enjoyable ambiance - when people are dressed up will regret the trend toward more casual meals.

 

 

Those who want to wear whatever they want - the "its my vacation" crowd - will never understand.

 

Bingo, we have a winner:).

[RocketMan275]

I am not stressed about it. I'm amazed at how this gets pulled out of the bag of tricks as soon as someone doesn't agree with an opinion. The put downs and telling people to chill out and calm down if they don't agree with you is what I refer to as offensive. Some get it, some don't. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Others find it offensive to be told they should go to the buffet. I'm all in favor of reaching a compromise where those who want to experience a more formal 'ambiance' can have that experience and those who do not can also enjoy the MDR. Perhaps, traditional dining, or one of the seatings, could be formal, really formal, and open dining could be more casual. Or, perhaps one level could be formal and another casual. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

[RocketMan275]

Those who want to wear whatever they want - the "its my vacation" crowd - will never understand.

 

And, the 'it's my vacation and you will wear what I want you to wear crowd' - will never understand either.

[cruz chic]

Others find it offensive to be told they should go to the buffet. I'm all in favor of reaching a compromise where those who want to experience a more formal 'ambiance' can have that experience and those who do not can also enjoy the MDR. Perhaps, traditional dining, or one of the seatings, could be formal, really formal, and open dining could be more casual. Or, perhaps one level could be formal and another casual. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

Casual has won out along with dumbing down the menu (this has been going on for a while). The only criteria now is to wear pants and a shirt with a collar. How much more casual should it be? Should we go with pj's, shorts and tank tops? Splitting dining rooms between formal and casual doesn't work. I like open dining so I guess I should pack my shorts and some "nice" p.j's :D.

[Lizzie68]

What is the point of this never-ending argument? HAL has relaxed the dress code. End of. There's not a darned thing we can do about it, just be grown up people and dress nicely to go to dinner and if someone else chooses not to, it's not up to us to police it or decide if it is appropriate or not.

[sail7seas]

Others find it offensive to be told they should go to the buffet. I'm all in favor of reaching a compromise where those who want to experience a more formal 'ambiance' can have that experience and those who do not can also enjoy the MDR. Perhaps, traditional dining, or one of the seatings, could be formal, really formal, and open dining could be more casual. Or, perhaps one level could be formal and another casual. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

 

If separating the dining room levels was that simple, surely someone in HAL management would have thought of it long ago. :)

 

What you suggest it too simplistic. You are saying a guest who wishes to dress casually must go to lower level, open seating. Maybe they want upper level and they want fixed seating at the same time and table each night with same tablemates? Of course, the reverse is true for those who may wish to dress 'really formal' as you put it.

 

I have sailed HAL way too long to be told I must change my preferences because there are some who either wish to dress formal which I may or may not wish to do OR they may wish to come in their shorts and t-shirts which I may or may not wish to do.

 

Everyone paid for the vacation and everyone needs to think of others around them. They didn't rent a private yacht or a private resort where no one but there own group is impacted. It's called maturity, courtesy and consideration for others. We sometimes make small compromises in order to be thoughtful of other people.

Edited November 26, 2015 by sail7seas

[dakrewser]

The 'ambiance' of those who like to dress up is no more important than the 'ambiance' of those who do not. Anyone whose feelings are hurt by how someone else chooses to dress on a cruise ship needs to get over it. Take a deep breath, have another drink, and consider just how fortunate you are to be on a cruise ship having such problems. If that doesn't work, rinse and repeat.

 

 

So could you point me towards those postings were people say their meal was ruined because others dressed too formally???

[tinkr2]

So could you point me towards those postings were people say their meal was ruined because others dressed too formally???

 

 

Those people aren't complaining. They're happy in the shorts and less luggage section. Formal as it used to exist is gone. I look forward to trying the grande on rccl which is formal . I've already heard.... It's not enforced there either. I love to dress formally, but we certainly do not have black tie and white distinctions which is true formal , of an even earlier cruise era. Things change, adapt.

 

 

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[POA1]

So could you point me towards those postings were people say their meal was ruined because others dressed too formally???

You won't get any takers. I'll bet $3.

[dakrewser]

Those people aren't complaining. They're happy in the shorts and less luggage section. Formal as it used to exist is gone. I look forward to trying the grande on rccl which is formal . I've already heard.... It's not enforced there either. I love to dress formally, but we certainly do not have black tie and white distinctions which is true formal , of an even earlier cruise era. Things change, adapt.

 

 

White tie at dinner was gone long before the cruise era (which only started after World War II). You may be thinking of an earlier age when folks travelled via ship to get to a particular destination (e.g., Transatlantic). Nevertheless, you did mention that those who prefer "sloppy casual" would have their ambiance ruined by seeing people in formal dress. So please point me towards those postings.

 

And do you tell anyone who disagrees with you, on any subject, to "just get over it?"

[RocketMan275]

So could you point me towards those postings were people say their meal was ruined because others dressed too formally???

 

Ruined? No, I cannot remember a single post of that nature. To be sure, there have been some posts about feeling "under-dressed", but, no, I've not seen any who specifically said their meal was ruined because they were seated next to someone in a tuxedo.

 

Does your question imply that those who prefer to dress formally deserve some special degree of consideration because their meal might be ruined by the sight of someone in denim?

[RocketMan275]

If separating the dining room levels was that simple, surely someone in HAL management would have thought of it long ago. :)

 

What you suggest it too simplistic. You are saying a guest who wishes to dress casually must go to lower level, open seating. Maybe they want upper level and they want fixed seating at the same time and table each night with same tablemates? Of course, the reverse is true for those who may wish to dress 'really formal' as you put it.

 

I have sailed HAL way too long to be told I must change my preferences because there are some who either wish to dress formal which I may or may not wish to do OR they may wish to come in their shorts and t-shirts which I may or may not wish to do.

 

Everyone paid for the vacation and everyone needs to think of others around them. They didn't rent a private yacht or a private resort where no one but there own group is impacted. It's called maturity, courtesy and consideration for others. We sometimes make small compromises in order to be thoughtful of other people.

 

You raise some very pertinent points about my "simplistic" solution. Perhaps, it is too unworkable. I do have to ask, do you prefer some form of my "simplistic" solution or do you prefer Gala Nights?

 

Gala Nights are themselves a form of compromise that allows both casual and formal in the MDR. At least, my "simplistic" solution does have issues but it does not result in persons in Gala wear at the same table with those in more formal wear.

 

I cannot possible agree more with your final paragraph. I've tried to consistently ask for the "consideration" of the wishes of both those who dress formally and those who do not. But, so far, I've not found many of those who prefer formal wear who are willing to even consider "small compromises".

[RocketMan275]

White tie at dinner was gone long before the cruise era (which only started after World War II). You may be thinking of an earlier age when folks travelled via ship to get to a particular destination (e.g., Transatlantic). Nevertheless, you did mention that those who prefer "sloppy casual" would have their ambiance ruined by seeing people in formal dress. So please point me towards those postings.

 

And do you tell anyone who disagrees with you, on any subject, to "just get over it?"

 

"Just get over it" is as valid a response as "Just go to the buffet"?

[cruz chic]

"Just get over it" is as valid a response as "Just go to the buffet"?

 

Who is telling you to go to the buffet, in recent history? Hal only asks that you put on a pair of pants and a shirt with a collar on gala night. Is that really to much to ask? Is saying go to the buffet such an insult that the correct reply is get over it? That's ridiculous. People used to complain about having to put on a tie and jacket, now it's pants.

[3rdGenCunarder]

"Just get over it" is as valid a response as "Just go to the buffet"?

 

"Just go to the buffet" is HAL's response to people who don't want to dress for dinner. HAL is making sure you won't starve if you don't want to put on long pants to go to dinner.

[JPH814]

You raise some very pertinent points about my "simplistic" solution. Perhaps, it is too unworkable. I do have to ask, do you prefer some form of my "simplistic" solution or do you prefer Gala Nights?

 

 

 

Gala Nights are themselves a form of compromise that allows both casual and formal in the MDR. At least, my "simplistic" solution does have issues but it does not result in persons in Gala wear at the same table with those in more formal wear.

 

 

 

I cannot possible agree more with your final paragraph. I've tried to consistently ask for the "consideration" of the wishes of both those who dress formally and those who do not. But, so far, I've not found many of those who prefer formal wear who are willing to even consider "small compromises".

 

 

We do not consider "small compromises?

 

In my cruising lifetime, i have seen formal night redefined from tux/suit and tie to jacket and tie to the current " gala"night of dress pants and collared shirt. We only ask that this minimal standard be adhered to. It is the " it is my cruise and i will wear what i want" group that is not considering "compromise".

[roses313]

A few days ago I posted a comment, and was told that the dress code issue was over and done with. Well, I can see it is still a hot topic.

 

After all these heated discussions it will be interesting to see what folks actually wear on our upcoming cruise.