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Jade13

HAL no longer requires formal dress

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We just came back from a seven day Mexico Cruise. Generally, the majority of the passengers dressed in Formal and Gala Wear for the evening. In fact, there were quite a few gentlemen wearing tuxedoes. One gentleman wore a kilt and jacket. And there were lots of young women wearing "Formal Gowns" which I haven't seen recently on our cruises.

 

 

 

There was one older man who came to the dining room on a smart casual night in shorts. Was told that he couldn't come into the dining room in shorts. He made a scene and then totally ignored the staff and entered the dining room anyway. I wonder if that same man would wear shorts to a fancy restaurant and ignore the staff telling him he couldn't enter. My bet is that he would have worn slacks in the first place.

 

 

Yay! Ecstatic to hear about dresses and tuxes. I bet that means the holiday cruise to Mexico will be dressy too!

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I've worn shorts my whole life. I wore them to school. Wore them to work. Have worn them to church. I've worn them in best restaurants, formal functions and I've worn them in MDR on many ships with many cruise liens also.

 

The difference? Bermuda shorts, knee high 'golf hose', long sleeve shirts, tile and blazer. Always keep Bermuda passport handy just in case a cruise ship maitr'd does not know the national dress.

 

Good on ya Topsham - I was going to mention these but didn't for fear of.........:)

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I asked about shorts. After all, you say the dress code is only a suggestion. Surely you would not let it stand in your way.

 

Or do you feel there really is a line not to cross?

 

 

Of course, HALs restaurants are nothing close to a five star restaurant, so I don't think you can compare the two. There are, of course, lines not be be crossed. I wouldn't wear a swimsuit or tank top in either type of establishment.

 

The funny thing is I never argued that I or anyone else should wear what they want. I generally dress close to or in compliance with the dress code. I only asked why anyone cares what someone else is wearing. What you should have asked is whether I would care if someone wears shorts into a five star restaurant I'm eating at and the answer is enthusiastically NO.

Edited by lawduck

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Of course, HALs restaurants are nothing close to a five star restaurant, so I don't think you can compare the two. There are, of course, lines not be be crossed. I wouldn't wear a swimsuit or tank top in either.

 

 

So you agree that what is worn can influence the experience of others?

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So you agree that what is worn can influence the experience of others?

 

 

As I said, "The funny thing is I never argued that I or anyone else should wear what they want. I generally dress close to or in compliance with the dress code. I only asked why anyone cares what someone else is wearing. What you should have asked is whether I would care if someone wears shorts into a five star restaurant I'm eating at and the answer is enthusiastically NO."

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Forbes is the arbiter of Five Star Restaurants. They bought out the Mobil Guide a few years ago.

 

Here are the restaurants for 2015:

 

http://www.forbestravelguide.com/about/awardwinners

 

Here are the criteria. Please note that these are general criteria and there are some even more specific ones. Quite literally down to the ice cubes (can't have holes) and the juices (must be fresh squeezed, with the exception of certain types, like cranberry.)

 

http://static.howstuffworks.com/pdf/restaurant-criteria.pdf

 

Quite a few of the Five Star restaurants require a jacket for gentlemen, as do a fair number of the four star restaurants. You can click on the first link in this post and drill down into the restaurant details to see dress codes.

 

BTW - Walt Disney World has a jacket required restaurant: Victoria & Albert's in the Grand Floridian Resort. Despite the dress code and the high price, it's one of the hardest reservations to score at Disney World.

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Forbes is the arbiter of Five Star Restaurants. They bought out the Mobil Guide a few years ago.

 

Here are the restaurants for 2015:

 

http://www.forbestravelguide.com/about/awardwinners

 

Here are the criteria. Please note that these are general criteria and there are some even more specific ones. Quite literally down to the ice cubes (can't have holes) and the juices (must be fresh squeezed, with the exception of certain types, like cranberry.)

 

http://static.howstuffworks.com/pdf/restaurant-criteria.pdf

 

Quite a few of the Five Star restaurants require a jacket for gentlemen, as do a fair number of the four star restaurants. You can click on the first link in this post and drill down into the restaurant details to see dress codes.

 

BTW - Walt Disney World has a jacket required restaurant: Victoria & Albert's in the Grand Floridian Resort. Despite the dress code and the high price, it's one of the hardest reservations to score at Disney World.

 

Thanks a lot.

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There was nothing implied in what Ithaca Girl said. It is certainly possible, if you have thin skin, to read more into it than is actually there. However, it's pretty clear that not everyone feels that way.

 

If we were sitting at a table and some of our table mates told other table mates - not us - that they looked nice, lovely, sophisticated, dashing, debonair, stunning and handsome, we'd be likely to throw in an add on compliment*.

**Are you implying that I'm unoriginal and incapable of creative thought?? Just for that, I'm going to break your crayons!

 

If IG had said: " they looked nice, lovely, sophisticated, dashing, debonair, stunning and handsome,", you would be correct but IG said: "Currently on the Eurodam. 99% of the gentlemen wore jackets on Gala Night. It is so nice to cruise with civilized, considerate passengers!!!". Now who did IG find to be "civilized, considerate passengers"? Why, the gentlemen wearing jackets! You can apologize all you want but the implication is clear: if you're wearing a jacket on Gala Night, then you're "civilized and considerate". Now what are you if you're not wearing a jacket?

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If IG had said: " they looked nice, lovely, sophisticated, dashing, debonair, stunning and handsome,", you would be correct but IG said: "Currently on the Eurodam. 99% of the gentlemen wore jackets on Gala Night. It is so nice to cruise with civilized, considerate passengers!!!". Now who did IG find to be "civilized, considerate passengers"? Why, the gentlemen wearing jackets! You can apologize all you want but the implication is clear: if you're wearing a jacket on Gala Night, then you're "civilized and considerate". Now what are you if you're not wearing a jacket?

 

She didn't say anything disparaging about the people who weren't dressed up. She simply complimented the passengers who were dressed up. You're the one who jumped to the conclusion that saying that Group A is civilized and considerate automatically means that Group B in inconsiderate and uncivilized. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible that she's entirely neutral on Group B.

 

I don't know why you're so sensitive about this or think that saying something nice about one group means that you think the exact opposite about the other group. If I said that someone had well-behaved children, it wouldn't necessarily follow that all the other children were horribly-behaved, demon-spawn hellions. She complimented the men in jackets. You drew the conclusions about the men without jackets, not her.

 

You may want to consider the possibility that you have some sort of sartorial chip on your shoulder and you might be easily offended. However, if the intent was to shut down Ithaca Gal or anyone else who is going to say nice things about their fellow passenger who happen to dress nicer, it's fair to say that it's not been a successful effort.

Edited by POA1

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She didn't say anything disparaging about the people who weren't dressed up. She simply complimented the passengers who were dressed up. You're the one who jumped to the conclusion that saying that Group A is civilized and considerate automatically means that Group B in inconsiderate and uncivilized. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible that she's entirely neutral on Group B.

 

Glad to hear you have decided to join the ranks of those of us who believe that clothing does not make a person more or less civilized or more or less considerate. But, accepting those premises requires abandoning many, if not most, of the arguments that dress codes enhance the dining experience. For example, you can no longer insist that gentlemen wearing jackets improves the 'ambiance' since a gentleman with a jacket is no more civilized and considerate as a gentleman without.

 

I don't know why you're so sensitive about this or think that saying something nice about one group means that you think the exact opposite about the other group. If I said that someone had well-behaved children, it wouldn't necessarily follow that all the other children were horribly-behaved, demon-spawn hellions. She complimented the men in jackets. You drew the conclusions about the men without jackets, not her.

 

Well, it could be because of the numerous derogatory posts directed at those who do not want to wear a jacket or long pants. Let's focus on the term 'considerate'. How many times have you seen someone condemn those who do not want to wear jackets or long pants as showing 'disrespect' which is just a variant of 'inconsiderate'?

 

You may want to consider the possibility that you have some sort of sartorial chip on your shoulder and you might be easily offended. However, if the intent was to shut down Ithaca Gal or anyone else who is going to say nice things about their fellow passenger who happen to dress nicer, it's fair to say that it's not been a successful effort.

 

Is it possible that those in this forum that are so easily offended by how others dress in the MDR have "some sort of sartorial chip on" their shoulders? One is reminded of Luke 6:42.

 

When one accuses those who make critical comments of attempting to shut down debate, that accusation is also an attempt to shut down debate.

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No, no, no! Wearing a jacket does not make one more considerate or more civilized. Heaven's no! Following gentle recommendations meant to enhance everyone's experience is what makes one more considerate and more civilized.

 

This discourse has tired me out. Pardon me while I retire to my cabana to recover! I, personally, speaking only for and about myself, find it easier to go with the recommended flow as I find bucking the trend to be much too exhausting and it takes more energy than I could ever expend while on a cruise!

 

Cheers!

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No, no, no! Wearing a jacket does not make one more considerate or more civilized. Heaven's no! Following gentle recommendations meant to enhance everyone's experience is what makes one more considerate and more civilized.

 

This discourse has tired me out. Pardon me while I retire to my cabana to recover! I, personally, speaking only for and about myself, find it easier to go with the recommended flow as I find bucking the trend to be much too exhausting and it takes more energy than I could ever expend while on a cruise!

 

Cheers!

 

Thank you for clearing that up. I'm just so thankful HAL doesn't suggest we wear powdered wigs. :)

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No, no, no! Wearing a jacket does not make one more considerate or more civilized. Heaven's no! Following gentle recommendations meant to enhance everyone's experience is what makes one more considerate and more civilized.

 

This discourse has tired me out. Pardon me while I retire to my cabana to recover! I, personally, speaking only for and about myself, find it easier to go with the recommended flow as I find bucking the trend to be much too exhausting and it takes more energy than I could ever expend while on a cruise!

 

Cheers!

 

I'm so tired after reading this thread that I think I will nap now.:)

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Just back from the Oosterdam this month. On gala night they turned away Guy's without jackets. My brother was dressed in long shirt and tie with no jacket. He had to go back to the cabin to get it. They were turning guys away left and right while we waited for him to return. The guys with jeans didn't have a chance. Personally I don't care people can wear what every they want, it's vacation. The people who think what I wear is going to effect their dinner should be lucky they don't have worry real problems to worry about. It's an old policy that doesn't fit modern cruising anymore. Also anytime dining is a joke. It's either make a reservation or wait an hour for a table for 4. Then they would sit us next to a table for 2 one inch away from our table and serve us all at once so it was like a table for 6 anyway. On all other cruise lines you truly get a table for 4 and the time you want to eat.

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We got off the Oosterdam on November 16. We had anytime dining and never had to wait more than a few minutes for a table for 4 or 6. On gala nights DH and DS both wore dress shirts with a tie and they were ushered right in.

 

Things musta changed??

Edited by Viv0828

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What does the original poster (op) have to do with the perfectly fine comments that Ithaca girl made :confused:?

 

Sorry, OP was meant to refer to Ithaca Girl's comments. I apologize for using op instead of IG.

 

... it's a good thing you clarified this, as apparently some people are not able to "contextualize" things ...

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Just back from the Oosterdam this month. On gala night they turned away Guy's without jackets. My brother was dressed in long shirt and tie with no jacket. He had to go back to the cabin to get it. They were turning guys away left and right while we waited for him to return. The guys with jeans didn't have a chance. Personally I don't care people can wear what every they want' date=' it's vacation. The people who think what I wear is going to effect their dinner should be lucky they don't have worry real problems to worry about. It's an old policy that doesn't fit modern cruising anymore. Also anytime dining is a joke. It's either make a reservation or wait an hour for a table for 4. Then they would sit us next to a table for 2 one inch away from our table and serve us all at once so it was like a table for 6 anyway. On all other cruise lines you truly get a table for 4 and the time you want to eat.[/quote']

 

I'm curious what time you went for dinner. I generally show up between 6 and 6:30 and I don't think I've waited more than 10 minutes. I could see there being quite a wait if a person would go from 7 or 7:30. It also likely depends on the itinerary. I wonder why they were turning away men with no jackets. Their "suggestions" for the dress code have changed.

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Just back from the Oosterdam this month. On gala night they turned away Guy's without jackets. My brother was dressed in long shirt and tie with no jacket. He had to go back to the cabin to get it. They were turning guys away left and right while we waited for him to return. The guys with jeans didn't have a chance. Personally I don't care people can wear what every they want' date=' it's vacation. The people who think what I wear is going to effect their dinner should be lucky they don't have worry real problems to worry about. It's an old policy that doesn't fit modern cruising anymore. Also anytime dining is a joke. It's either make a reservation or wait an hour for a table for 4. Then they would sit us next to a table for 2 one inch away from our table and serve us all at once so it was like a table for 6 anyway. On all other cruise lines you truly get a table for 4 and the time you want to eat.[/quote']

 

We got off the Oosterdam on November 16. We had anytime dining and never had to wait more than a few minutes for a table for 4 or 6. On gala nights DH and DS both wore dress shirts with a tie and they were ushered right in.

 

Things musta changed??

 

This inconsistency is what makes it so confusing.

 

If you both still have your cruise log, would you mind seeing and posting here the name of Dining Room Manager? It would be really interesting to see if it was the same DRM or one left and a new one arrived.

 

Thanks if you can do that. :)

 

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I'm curious what time you went for dinner. I generally show up between 6 and 6:30 and I don't think I've waited more than 10 minutes. I could see there being quite a wait if a person would go from 7 or 7:30. It also likely depends on the itinerary. I wonder why they were turning away men with no jackets. Their "suggestions" for the dress code have changed.

 

There have been numerous other threads with HAL reviews commenting on the line's lack of consistency. This code enforcement seems to be another of those inconsistencies.

From HALs own FAQ regarding dress code:

 

Q: Are a jacket and tie required for men?

 

A: Jacket and tie is the preferred attire in all fine dining restaurants on Gala Nights, though it is not required. Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change.

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This comment is offensive and condescending. Posting of insults should not be acceptable to the monitors of this thread.

 

... I see nothing wrong with Ithaca girl's post. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it condescending.

 

... and just because you agree with IG's post does not make it any less offensive or condescending - we are all entitled to our own opinions, and IMO earljr's post was spot on!

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... and just because you agree with IG's post does not make it any less offensive or condescending - we are all entitled to our own opinions, and IMO earljr's post was spot on!

 

The poster has clarified her post after many, many posters tried to make it into something it wasn't. Curious why are you trying to make it something it wasn't yet again.

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There have been numerous other threads with HAL reviews commenting on the line's lack of consistency. This code enforcement seems to be another of those inconsistencies.

From HALs own FAQ regarding dress code:

 

Q: Are a jacket and tie required for men?

 

A: Jacket and tie is the preferred attire in all fine dining restaurants on Gala Nights, though it is not required. Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change.

 

Call it what you like, jackets are not required so they should not be asking cruisers to wear them. Hal is the one that dumbed down their policy.

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Call it what you like, jackets are not required so they should not be asking cruisers to wear them. Hal is the one that dumbed down their policy.

 

So, what would you like to call it?

 

BTW, what makes a change from one particular type of dress to another "dumbing down?" Why is it dumb to allow pax to wear comfortable clothes on vacation? Sounds smart to me, especially with HAL's attempt to expand its target market before its current base of core customers dies off.

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So, what would you like to call it?

 

BTW, what makes a change from one particular type of dress to another "dumbing down?" Why is it dumb to allow pax to wear comfortable clothes on vacation? Sounds smart to me, especially with HAL's attempt to expand its target market before its current base of core customers dies off.

 

I call it a policy change. You said it wasn't. Dumbing down in my mind is making something less then it was before. Comfortable? Next stop, shorts and crocs?

Edited by cruz chic

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I call it a policy change. You said it wasn't. Dumbing down in my mind is making something less then it was before. Comfortable? Next stop, shorts and crocs.

 

You may call it a policy change, but the HAL FAQ does not. What part of " Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change" is difficult to comprehend.

 

That definition of dumbing down is yours. Less of something is not dumb, it is simply less. If one goes on a diet and, as a result, weighs less, have they been dumbed down?

 

And enough of the slippery slope argument, already!!!

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