Cruising Alaska with Holland America- the Biggest Trap Ever

[Vict0riann]

A very convoluted story. The mind boggles!

 

I think the highlight is that she says she can still travel in the US and Canada, she thinks, up to 90 days AFTER her visa has expired. Definitely problems with translation.

[3rdGenCunarder]

This. And, if the cruise line had let her sail, she might not have been admitted back into the US at the end of the cruise. EM

 

And if HAL let her sail, they might have been in big trouble for carrying a passenger who didn't have proper documents.

[susanch12345]

A very convoluted story. The mind boggles!

 

I think the highlight is that she says she can still travel in the US and Canada, she thinks, up to 90 days AFTER her visa has expired. Definitely problems with translation.

 

agreed... depending on the interpretation of "within 90 days of the expiration of American Visa". Common sense says that means 90 days BEFORE the visa expired. But I can see how it could be interpreted as AFTER by some.

[OlsSalt]

Now let's discuss the various interpretations of "Holland America .... the biggest trap ever".

 

(Sounds like someone has a florid command of the English language to me. :cool:)

[sail7seas]

It is always the travelers responsibility to have all required travel documents. It is not HAL's responsibility. No matter where you are traveling when and with whom, it is always up to the traveler.

 

To say HAL has singled Chinese travelers for refusal to board is outrageous and makes the rest of your post very hard for me to accept. They did not set out to 'cheat' Chinese. To suggest otherwise is unacceptable IMO

 

One big thing I have gained from this thread is it isn't only American society that has adopted the philosophy it is someone else's fault when something goes wrong. It seems daily I hear someone moaning about a bump in their road of life that was x, y or z's fault but it never occurs to them to point the finger at themselves. Sad to hear this is happening with folks from other countries. Sigh....

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by sail7seas

[Tampa Girl]

No, she does say that her visa expired on June 23 and the cruise was July 12, so you read it correctly.

 

At one point she says: "I called this Visa Center, and was told that within 90 days of the expiration of my American Visa, I can still travel within US, Canada and Mexico", and I wonder if she interprets "within 90 says" as including the 90 days FOLLOWING the expiry of her visa. In which case, she may well be in the US illegally.

 

Bingo! I suspect that is exactly what she thought. Incredible though it seems for a "tourism professor."

[DaveOKC]

agreed... depending on the interpretation of "within 90 days of the expiration of American Visa". Common sense says that means 90 days BEFORE the visa expired. But I can see how it could be interpreted as AFTER by some.

 

I agree that it likely was misinterpreted by the OP, but come on now, who would think that you can use a Visa (or passport, etc.) AFTER the EXPIRATION DATE??

[Okie1946]

If I read this correctly, the OP was posting the opening thread today - August 18th - while in Arizona.

 

They also said that that their U.S. Visa expired on JUNE 23rd.

 

I was under the impression that being in this country with an expired visa was against the law. Therefore - this person is subject to deportation. And they claim to be a professor of tourism.

 

Okie1946

[DeeniEncinitas]

If I read this correctly, the OP was posting the opening thread today - August 18th - while in Arizona.

 

They also said that that their U.S. Visa expired on JUNE 23rd.

 

I was under the impression that being in this country with an expired visa was against the law. Therefore - this person is subject to deportation. And they claim to be a professor of tourism.

 

Okie1946

 

I too was wondering the same thing!

What gives?

Denise:)

[EbayCruiser]

Down towards the end of her post (see #6), she also said she contacted HAL on August 2nd, as soon as she returned to China.

 

So, is she in China or Arizona?

Edited August 18, 2015 by EbayCruiser

[3rdGenCunarder]

I suspect that the reasons that HAL nor the travel agency post the exact requirements for each country's entry requirements would be onerous to research as these are updated frequently.

 

[rest of text deleted] .

 

This is a good point. If HAL tried to keep up with the rules of all the countries they visit, they could end up giving someone outdated information, and then it would be their fault when someone couldn't travel.

[VMax1700]

To OP,

As a professor of tourism, your recent experiences will make an excellent discussion for your future students as to how to follow travel rules in different jurdisdictions.

 

Perhaps students who think that you have been wronged, should be made to study an extra year until they learn that rules is rules is rules. ;)

[kazu]

There it is, directly from the HAL website under: Do I Need a Visa.

 

Sorry OP, but as this poster pointed out it is on the HAL site and you apparently by passed this section.

 

Do you think that China would be any more lax with their requirements for us, as US citizens if we tried to visit China? I do not and I do not blame any country trying to maintain their laws or....

 

Hope you are able to visit other places around the world, by land, air or sea, without this predicament you placed yourself in this time, in the future.

 

HAL was/is not to blame in this case.

 

Joanie

 

exactly :) if I recall correctly (and don't beat me up if my memory is wrong), when I was going to go to China, China had one of the most intricate rules for Visa entry that I had seen and wouldn't permit us to apply until 90 days out. Add that to the cancellation date of a HAL cruise and you are on thin ground.

 

It seems ironic that someone who comes from such a stringent country expects the rules bent here (in Canada) and the U.S.

[OHCruiser]

OP, regardless of what you "think" about the requirements, they are REQUIREMENTS and they must be met in order for you to travel.

 

Traveling on an expired Chinese to US visa is ludicrous and that alone should have stopped HAL from allowing you on the ship. It was up to you to have timely, valid documentation for the period of the travel.

 

As for the Canadian visa, Canada requires a visa for Chinese citizens if you plan to step on their soil, dock in their port and stay on the ship, OR even if you will just sail through their waters. It's called a "transit visa" and it costs a whopping $7CAN. It can be processed online, an eTA, it's good for 5 years or until your passport expires [whichever comes first], and it is all but instantaneous.

 

So, in the end, you lost a cruise for want of $21 and about 10 minutes of your time. A little quick internet research at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/eta-start.asp would have cleared this up--and even if you didn't think that you would really need the visa, $21 is really, really, really cheap insurance for a trouble free trip.

 

When planning travel, we ALWAYS do independent internet research about visas, immunizations, and other potential issues and we verify the answers directly with governmental agencies.

We NEVER rely on the company selling us the travel to give us final, specific answers because governmental requirements can change quickly and only the governmental agencies can be expected to have exact, up-to-the-minute correct answers.

 

This will likely wind up to be a very costly lesson, but really, HAL owes you nothing.

[NMLady]

HAL does have the Visa information on their site.

If a person shows up without proper documents, neither the cruise line nor an insurance company will give a refund. Those are the rules.

 

I'm sorry you missed the cruise and are out the money but if you'd checked Canada's requirements you would have had the correct answer.

 

Also if you'd read the visa requirements on HAL's site you would have been informed.

[take us away]

Denial for the cruise embarkation had nothing to do with the US visas but rather their Chinese passports and Canadian laws.

[Ricktan]

Amazing that the OP could find CC in order to complain but couldn't find it before her cruise to ask for advice and/or questions.....

[BetterToBeSmarter]

You're wrong about that. It certainly is true, and it was very easy to find. Here's a link:

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Cruise+Preparation&contentMenu=Passports,+Visas+%26+Vaccinations&WT.ac=pnav_FBG_EssentialDocs#

 

click "Do I need a visa"

 

Sorry you were denied boarding but next time, hopefully you'll take the advice of your screen name.

 

Here's what they say on the link you provided:

 

"Visa and documentation requirements vary by nationality and destination. Please review your itinerary and verify your specific travel requirements. Because governmental travel requirements change periodically, you should check with a visa service or the consulate of each country you will visit no later than three (3) weeks prior to sailing to verify travel documentation. If you are booked on consecutive sailings, please insure you are able to obtain all required visas and vaccinations for all ports on your itinerary.

As a courtesy, Holland America provides some information as to necessary travel documents, visas and vaccinations. Guests are still obligated to verify such information with the appropriate authorities. The information provided on this site was correct at the time of publishing and is subject to change at any time.

For information on certain visa requirements, please click here. This list applies to citizens from the United States, Canada, the Netherlands, Germany, Australia, Switzerland, Austria and the United Kingdom. You may also contact your travel agent, local visa service or Holland America Line for assistance in determining which visas will be required for your specific cruise."

 

No specific information still. They ask you to consult other authorities, which I did! I called the "Visa Center", which was referred to as an Authority from where I called. Plus, I have valid passport and I not only consulted this visa center, the lady who modified my visa date from HLA but also the US customs officer. If I cann't trust the Authority they referred to, who else should I trust? If they asked me to call Canadian consulator, I would. But they asked me to call the Visa Center, which would solve my questions. So my only fault was I trusted them and followed what they asked me to do??

[sail7seas]

It's too bad you didn't find this forum prior to your cruise as most of us would have directed you to government agencies to get the latest, most accurate information. No telephone reps at any cruise line are the absolute authority but you are a professional instructor and likely would/could/should have suspected that to be the case.

 

You learned a costly and painful lesson and most of us are very sorry about that.

You must look in the mirror and point the finger to yourself, sorry to say.

 

Edited August 19, 2015 by sail7seas

[DeeniEncinitas]

Just like American Express

"Read CC!!!!! Don't leave home without it"

I always get everything I need to know before any of my adventures

Right here.

So sad people learn the hard way.

Denise:)

[ninefishes]

Sorry to hear what happened to you. This whole process must have been very frustrating and extremely unpleasant.

 

I hope I'm not adding fuel to the flame here. However I do think that before your cruise, you should have contacted Canadian Consulate in the city where you lived and the U.S. Immigration to gather all the most updated information. After all they are the only authoritative agencies on this matter. As a veteran traveller and tourism professor yourself, this is common sense. This homework should be yours, not HAL's.

 

Hopefully next time you will have a good trip.

Edited August 19, 2015 by ninefishes

[BetterToBeSmarter]

It's too bad you didn't find this forum prior to your cruise as most of us would have directed you to government agencies to get the latest, most accurate information. No telephone reps at any cruise line are the absolute authority but you are a professional instructor and likely would/could/should have suspected that to be the case.

 

You learned a costly and painful lesson and most of us are very sorry about that.

You must look in the mirror and point the finger to yourself, sorry to say.

 

 

Because I'm a professional and I book my cruise with HAL, I trust that HAL will be professional enough to direct me to the right information or resources. So the visa center they guided me to is a fake agency? So the only lesson I should learn is never to trust any cruise lines that I book my trip with and always look elsewhere for guidance?

[Fouremco]

I checked all the links the replies provided. THERE IS NO SPECIFIC information!

That is simply not true. If you follow the link to VisaCentral provided in post #15, you are provided with a very simple form to determine your visa requirements. Filling it in as a Chinese citizen travelling to Canada as a tourist will return a result indicating that:

 

"Tourist Visa Required

To apply for your required visa, please contact the local consulates or a visa service in your country of residence."

 

I'd say that was VERY SPECIFIC information.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Fouremco

[BetterToBeSmarter]

 

Do you think that China would be any more lax with their requirements for us, as US citizens if we tried to visit China? I do not and I do not blame any country trying to maintain their laws or....

 

Hope you are able to visit other places around the world, by land, air or sea, without this predicament you placed yourself in this time, in the future.

 

HAL was/is not to blame in this case.

 

Joanie

 

No, but in China, if you're cruising with a line to visit Japan and South Korea and stick with them, you don't need a second-country visa. But if you're flying to those countries, you do need a visa.

[serendipity1499]

A very convoluted story. The mind boggles!

 

I think the highlight is that she says she can still travel in the US and Canada, she thinks, up to 90 days AFTER her visa has expired. Definitely problems with translation.

 

If I read this correctly, the OP was posting the opening thread today - August 18th - while in Arizona.

 

They also said that that their U.S. Visa expired on JUNE 23rd.

 

I was under the impression that being in this country with an expired visa was against the law. Therefore - this person is subject to deportation. And they claim to be a professor of tourism.

 

Okie1946

 

I Hate to tell you this folks but you are wrong..

 

Many non- U.S. Citizens who have I94's CAN & DO travel on expired Visa's in the United States & it is perfectly legal..The Dept. of Homeland Security controls this:

 

Suggest you check out this WEB site info..

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/automatic-revalidation.html

 

 

Quote Automatic Revalidation

 

Re-entering the United States with a Valid I-94 Form and Expired Visa is Limited

 

What Is Automatic Revalidation?

 

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has the authority and the responsibility over the admission of travelers to the United States. Under the automatic revalidation provision of immigration law, certain temporary visitors holding expired nonimmigrant visas who seek to return to the U.S. may be admitted at a U.S. port-of-entry by CBP, if they meet certain requirements, including, but not limited to the following:.

Nonimmigrants who departed the United States for brief travel to Canada, Mexico, or an adjacent island (for F and J nonimmigrants) for thirty days or less;

Nonimmigrants with a valid (unexpired) admission stamp or paper Form I-94, Arrival/Departure Record, endorsed by DHS.[/B] Unquote

 

There is a lot more info on Automatic re-validation on that WEB site..

 

Of course this has nothing to do with a Visa for Canada, but I can see where someone might misinterpret the Automatic Re-Validation for the U.S. by assuming they do not need a visa for Canada..

Edited August 19, 2015 by serendipity1499