Insight on the change from formal to evening chic

[helen haywood]

This reminds me of an anecdote of a group of fashion designers having lunch together in the '70's. One said "Hey, imagine if we put our name on jeans and started charging over a hundred bucks for them!" The group all laughed heartily...and Gloria Vanderbilt quietly excused herself.

[bottomfeeder]

The issue here is that as a society we have gotten more casual. And many of us see this blue jean cue as this. Next thing we know activewear will be permitted in the MDR....:rolleyes:

 

You mean I shouldn't wear my designer yoga pants to dinner in the MDR? I think they are very chic, and no chance of them being ill-fitting since they stretch in or out depending on whether I've lost or gained weight!

[Chardonnay Char]

You might classify me as one of those “nearly deads.” I am 68, and I NEVER liked formal dressing. ( I got married in go-go boots and a pink mini-skirt. ) I’m sorry some old fuddy-duddies miss being forced to dress up, but I am very happy about this new policy.

BTW, I didn’t finish my master’s degree, but I have done adjunct college teaching. In America, hopefully we don’t equate high education associate education and formal-wear as they do on Downton Abbey.

[wvufan]

I still do not know what "chic" is, let alone "evening chic" :confused:

 

Maybe when I know, I can have an opinion on whether I like it or not.

 

LOL I don't have a clue either, and wouldn't admit it if I did know. Can't imagine sitting around with my buddies discussing what those terms mean. And I surely am not ever going to buy "designer" jeans.

 

I do know, though, that I have a tux and have worn it for every formal night on over 330 nights at sea and have never felt out of place.

 

The main reason I go to the minimal extra effort to wear a tux is because those evenings when my wife can wear her best jewelry and "gussie up" make her feel very special, and that is worth it to me.

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE Baby, :D:D Bob and Phyl

Edited November 22, 2015 by wvufan

[Crusin Kelly]

Based on the drop in quality of the food and service in the main dining room over the last couple of years, the dress code should be the same as a regular restaurant.

 

 

As I stated on the main thread, Sad, Sad, Sad

 

I think that part of the point to the opposition to this "Chic" is, that is is reflective of the lazy attitude of society as a whole, and that when given an inch people take the whole mile. Example, we wore ties to work until just recently, good or bad, we don't anymore. I never worked harder because I was in a tie, but, I digress... we were given the option from time to time to have "casual Fridays" where ya didn't has to wear your tie. They finally had to stop that practice as people's "casual" had dropped to jeans and sloppy.

 

You mention the quality of the food, the quality of the service - used to get a glass of champagne upon arrival... seems like everything is reflective of the lazy attitude - so the cruise line gives in to follow the dollars instead of holding the line to keep the bar from slipping any further... That's the sad part.

[jan-n-john]

As I stated on the main thread, Sad, Sad, Sad

 

........so the cruise line gives in to follow the dollars instead of holding the line to keep the bar from slipping any further... That's the sad part.

 

I see nothing "sad" about it. It is not the job of cruise lines to .... "hold the line to keep the bar from slipping"....... It's their job to provide the environment that the greatest number of their customers find to their liking, which is how they achieve the highest level of profitability they can, which is their true job. They are not there to lose money by catering to yesterday's forms and preferences. When the customer base's tastes have changed, they need to change their policies to reflect that, not keep them fixed for the shrinking minority that disagrees.

 

Those who want a different experience than that which suits the majority need to look elsewhere to find the experience they seek. There are plenty of cruise opportunities that have a standard more like the one X has now jettisoned.

[Classynfun1]

We are similar, except DH is finishing his PhD. We are both execs and dress up everyday. I have cruised over 400 days in my lifetime and DH about 120 now. All in all, we are bummed about the change. DH loves to wear one of his tuxes (he owns three), his military formal dress, or suit for formal night and I love to wear formal gowns. We travel every chance we get and make it a point to travel with at least one formal item each. This has served us well and we have definitely had opportunities to do more (especially with hotel concierges booking us into once in a life time experiences knowing we had proper attire).

 

We are finishing this December cruise and then looking at exploring other options so we can continue to enjoy the formal atmosphere we enjoy for a night or two when we cruise. It will cost us more than X suites have, but we are willing to pay for that.

 

Good luck to all that will stay with X.

[Ma Bell]

I see nothing "sad" about it. It is not the job of cruise lines to .... "hold the line to keep the bar from slipping"....... It's their job to provide the environment that the greatest number of their customers find to their liking, which is how they achieve the highest level of profitability they can, which is their true job. They are not there to lose money by catering to yesterday's forms and preferences. When the customer base's tastes have changed, they need to change their policies to reflect that, not keep them fixed for the shrinking minority that disagrees.

 

Those who want a different experience than that which suits the majority need to look elsewhere to find the experience they seek. There are plenty of cruise opportunities that have a standard more like the one X has now jettisoned.

 

That's an interesting conclusion. I wonder why those customers came over to Celebrity in the first place since they had plenty of choices for a cruise like Celebrity is now becoming. I hope "the majority" doesn't wake up someday to find that the things they loved about Celebrity no longer exist.

 

Actually, it probably won't matter because if all the mass market cruise lines are generically the same they'll never know what they missed, in fact, I'd say that's probably already true.

 

The benefits of being a long time Celebrity customer are what keep us coming back, but there are a lot of things I miss. I've always felt that there have been lots of improvements along the way too, but not so much recently.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Ma Bell

[jasm8449]

Based on the drop in quality of the food and service in the main dining room over the last couple of years, the dress code should be the same as a regular restaurant.

 

DH used to wear a tux, and I wore a floor-length evening dress on Formal nights. When Celebrity stopped holding up their end of the bargain for "Formal" nights in the MDR, ie. no more string quartet, fewer staff/downgraded service, downgraded food, we switched to suit and tie for him, and black pants/silk blouse for me. On our recent Silhouette B2B, the MDR food was usually well prepared, but the serving staff were overwhelmed and service suffered. With servers racing around, and the high noise level of a thousand + voices and banging dishes/cutlery from the stations, and 2-tops really being 4-tops, the MDR experience is not, for us, what it was prior to 6 years ago. Add to the mix that a major proportion of passengers eating in "smart casual" venues are spending the evening in the public areas in non-formal attire. The decision to drop the "Formal" pretense for those dining in the MDR is overdue.

[jan-n-john]

That's an interesting conclusion. I wonder why those customers came over to Celebrity in the first place since they had plenty of choices for a cruise like Celebrity is now becoming. I hope "the majority" doesn't wake up someday to find that the things they loved about Celebrity no longer exist.

 

I suppose those (predominantly) older customers came over to Celebrity back then because Celebrity offered the things they were looking for back then and at that time they were the future customer base. Fast forward. Now those customers are aging out and falling by the wayside. Celebrity, like any business, needs to adjust to the likes of the future customer base, not the past one, and that's what they're doing. (By the way I'll turn 72 this week). And yes, I'm sure as we go along in the future Celebrity like any business will always be adjusting to the (predominant) preferences of the future customers, and today's new customers who will then be the old timers will be complaining about standards not being respected or whatever. It's just the natural flow of life -- always has been, always will be.

 

Those who prefer formality were once in the majority. They aren't any more. Time to get used to it, or seek out an alternative.

Edited November 23, 2015 by jan-n-john

[true45]

You might classify me as one of those “nearly deads.” I am 68, and I NEVER liked formal dressing. ( I got married in go-go boots and a pink mini-skirt. ) I’m sorry some old fuddy-duddies miss being forced to dress up, but I am very happy about this new policy.

 

BTW, I didn’t finish my master’s degree, but I have done adjunct college teaching. In America, hopefully we don’t equate high education associate education and formal-wear as they do on Downton Abbey.

 

 

Hi

I'm with you, married in a white hand-crocheted mini-dress, never liked formal dress

 

I can roll with whatever dress code is suggested.

 

But what I don't like is being stereotyped. I do agree that Celebrity wants to make some changes -- makes me happy not sad. Not me but lots of younger folks like to dress up.

 

Happy sailing

[Ma Bell]

I suppose those (predominantly) older customers came over to Celebrity back then because Celebrity offered the things they were looking for back then and at that time they were the future customer base. Fast forward. Now those customers are aging out and falling by the wayside. Celebrity, like any business, needs to adjust to the likes of the future customer base, not the past one, and that's what they're doing. (By the way I'll turn 72 this week). And yes, I'm sure as we go along in the future Celebrity like any business will always be adjusting to the (predominant) preferences of the future customers, and today's new customers who will then be the old timers will be complaining about standards not being respected or whatever. It's just the natural flow of life -- always has been, always will be.

 

Those who prefer formality were once in the majority. They aren't any more. Time to get used to it, or seek out an alternative.[/QU

 

I'm not referring to those of us who have been there forever, I'm speaking of the "new" customers who came to Celebrity because they heard it was something special. It's just possible that the things that went along with Celebrity being just a little more special than some of the others may disappear a little faster than you would like too.

 

If you are 72 then you must know that the pendulum swings both ways. Personally, I see my grandchildren liking to get dressed up more than their parents did. Maybe the 30 to 50 crowd is behind the times. Jeans are not really the "fashion statement" they were just a decade ago.

[jan-n-john]

 

I'm not referring to those of us who have been there forever, I'm speaking of the "new" customers who came to Celebrity because they heard it was something special. It's just possible that the things that went along with Celebrity being just a little more special than some of the others may disappear a little faster than you would like too.

 

If you are 72 then you must know that the pendulum swings both ways. Personally, I see my grandchildren liking to get dressed up more than their parents did. Maybe the 30 to 50 crowd is behind the times. Jeans are not really the "fashion statement" they were just a decade ago.

 

I think it's quite a stretch to suggest the 30-50 crowd is "behind the times." That is the demographic whose average preferences define "the times."

 

Sure there are new customers who came because they "heard it was special" (though I don't know who they heard it from, in view of the excessively negative comments I see here all the time). But there is no doubt in my mind that the "30-50 set" is the primary market Celebrity wants to develop and is targeting, and on the whole they prefer less formality than the 50-80 set does, and that is the reason for the change in policy.

 

Jeans may not be the fashion statement they once were, I don't know, but I seriously doubt we'll see a return to tuxes and party gowns anytime soon. The pendulum will swing, but nobody knows where it will land. There will certainly be something new by the time your grandkids are purchasing their own cruises (20-30 years from now????), and the cruise lines of the world if they still exist will will move with it then. But right now, comfortable and non-fussy clothing is what the 30-50 set predominantly wants to wear to dinner, and that's the environment the lines are going to provide.

Edited November 23, 2015 by jan-n-john

[true45]

I suppose those (predominantly) older customers came over to Celebrity back then because Celebrity offered the things they were looking for back then and at that time they were the future customer base. Fast forward. Now those customers are aging out and falling by the wayside. Celebrity, like any business, needs to adjust to the likes of the future customer base, not the past one, and that's what they're doing. (By the way I'll turn 72 this week). And yes, I'm sure as we go along in the future Celebrity like any business will always be adjusting to the (predominant) preferences of the future customers, and today's new customers who will then be the old timers will be complaining about standards not being respected or whatever. It's just the natural flow of life -- always has been, always will be.

 

 

 

Those who prefer formality were once in the majority. They aren't any more. Time to get used to it, or seek out an alternative.[/QU

 

 

 

I'm not referring to those of us who have been there forever, I'm speaking of the "new" customers who came to Celebrity because they heard it was something special. It's just possible that the things that went along with Celebrity being just a little more special than some of the others may disappear a little faster than you would like too.

 

 

 

If you are 72 then you must know that the pendulum swings both ways. Personally, I see my grandchildren liking to get dressed up more than their parents did. Maybe the 30 to 50 crowd is behind the times. Jeans are not really the "fashion statement" they were just a decade ago.

 

 

Admittedly one of the not-so-young folks but also a veteran of the Horizon, there are a couple of issues in flux here.

 

There have been changed in the dining room, big ones in the past couple of years, changes to the loyalty programs, changes in service levels, removal of some amenities like flowers in cabins, louder music, genres of music changed or missing like classical quartets in cafe and no acapella, wall put up in dining room to accommodate luminae (unsightly at the expense of non suite). I'm very disappointed in the food in Mdr and Blu.

 

Maybe the new customers are just fine with

Things as they are now or will be next week or next month or maybe not. But comes a time after every sailing when we think, is this the cruiseline for me or is there another line that is a better match. I love Celebrity, it feels like home but I have booked Konigsdam for 2017. I hope I don't find any more of the reasons that I love Celebrity are missing from my January 2016 sailing.

 

Not everything comes down to age

I'm happy about the dress code change.

 

Happy sailing

Edited November 23, 2015 by true45

[MR_T]

It's refreshing for some of us to hear input from first-timers looking forward to trying a new line. Very surprising that three different people would post "roll eyes" symbols, "wah wah" and "bla bla bla" in response to a newcomer.

 

surely you can't be that surprised but the negative comments as you have over a 1000 posts so you must have seen these sort of people in the past...

 

Unfortunately some people are not happy unless they are having a go at others... Maybe I guess it makes them feel better about themselves!

 

Back to the original post... I found it very nice to read and I do feel it is indeed the very crowd celebrity are after for the success of their future business, and I for one completely agree with the original posters comments. 😊

[Ma Bell]

I think it's quite a stretch to suggest the 30-50 crowd is "behind the times." That is the demographic whose average preferences define "the times."

 

Sure there are new customers who came because they "heard it was special" (though I don't know who they heard it from, in view of the excessively negative comments I see here all the time). But there is no doubt in my mind that the "30-50 set" is the primary market Celebrity wants to develop and is targeting, and on the whole they prefer less formality than the 50-80 set does, and that is the reason for the change in policy.

 

Jeans may not be the fashion statement they once were, I don't know, but I seriously doubt we'll see a return to tuxes and party gowns anytime soon. The pendulum will swing, but nobody knows where it will land. There will certainly be something new by the time your grandkids are purchasing their own cruises (20-30 years from now????), and the cruise lines of the world if they still exist will will move with it then. But right now, comfortable and non-fussy clothing is what the 30-50 set predominantly wants to wear to dinner, and that's the environment the lines are going to provide.

 

In all the years I've been sailing on Celebrity it has never been necessary for a man to wear a tux or a woman a long gown, but at least there was that option. Celebrity did a good job of providing options for everyone. Now the only ones without options are those who really like to dress up. They say go ahead and wear your formal wear but let's be real. By the way, my dresses have always been comfortable and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing much more uncomfortable than a pair of jeans.

 

I'm hoping that people will continue to make some kind of effort to look "Chic", but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

 

My grand kids are teenagers so I hope it won't be that long until they can purchase their own.;)

[L75317]

I can't believe in all of this thread nobody has mentioned my #1 reason for applauding the demise of formal nights: The Airlines! We enjoy formal nights, but flying is an absolute nightmare these days. Having to pack all that is necessary for 2 nights of dressing up is too cumbersome and costly in these flying times. We just cruised on the Reflection 11/7 with 1 carry-on each, a back pack, and a tote bag. My DH wore his suit on the plane and I actually fit 1 long gown in my carry on bag, along with 6 other dresses. We made out just fine and will be even happier on our next cruise with this change. It was also quite nice to breeze in and out of the airport not worrying if our bags would show up. If you are driving, of course you can take whatever you please and not worry. You can dress up to your heart's content and hopefully not worry about what anyone else has on!

[Ma Bell]

I can't believe in all of this thread nobody has mentioned my #1 reason for applauding the demise of formal nights: The Airlines! We enjoy formal nights, but flying is an absolute nightmare these days. Having to pack all that is necessary for 2 nights of dressing up is too cumbersome and costly in these flying times. We just cruised on the Reflection 11/7 with 1 carry-on each, a back pack, and a tote bag. My DH wore his suit on the plane and I actually fit 1 long gown in my carry on bag, along with 6 other dresses. We made out just fine and will be even happier on our next cruise with this change. It was also quite nice to breeze in and out of the airport not worrying if our bags would show up. If you are driving, of course you can take whatever you please and not worry. You can dress up to your heart's content and hopefully not worry about what anyone else has on!

 

Been on over 100 cruises and probably just as many land trips and have never driven to the ship. Most of our cruises are two weeks or more along with some land before or after. The only time I worry about what I bring is when I get on the plane and wonder if there will be room under the seat in front of me for a small bag since all the carry on people are fighting over the space. It really gets ugly sometimes. The best one was a couple of weeks ago. We had a vacant seat between us so we could spread out a little and a woman behind us wanted to put all her stuff, including some really stinky food, on that seat because she had too many carry-ons.

[Can'tstopcruising]

The Chic crowd.

 

The guys will wear nice jeans and a button down shirt (not tucked in!) That is The Look.

 

The girls will wear their nice clothes and jewellery and look more dressed up than the guys, yet still informal. With HIGH heels!

 

This is the look of my "kids" and my friends' kids.

 

We really don't fit in! C'est la vie! I wouldn't worry about it.

 

One poster mentioned that she would dress up and her husband won't have to.

 

When we go to restaurants with friends, everyone dresses nicely and no one is anywhere near formal.

[Can'tstopcruising]

Been on over 100 cruises and probably just as many land trips and have never driven to the ship. Most of our cruises are two weeks or more along with some land before or after. The only time I worry about what I bring is when I get on the plane and wonder if there will be room under the seat in front of me for a small bag since all the carry on people are fighting over the space. It really gets ugly sometimes. The best one was a couple of weeks ago. We had a vacant seat between us so we could spread out a little and a woman behind us wanted to put all her stuff, including some really stinky food, on that seat because she had too many carry-ons.

 

ONG That is awful

[SusieV]

People have been saying the same thing here on CC for years; it's not anything new. It just used to be that this was something special differentiating cruising. I don't expect that most people wear gowns and tuxedos to work very often. It was a chance to have a special ambiance onboard which you simply don't get when most people will be dressed casually.

 

I'm disappointed in the change, frankly. What's next, no tablecloths in the MDR like on Carnival because everyone's dressed like they're at the beach so why bother?

[Hflors]

I'm disappointed in the change, frankly. What's next, no tablecloths in the MDR like on Carnival because everyone's dressed like they're at the beach so why bother?

 

I think what's next is no table! I keep saying that eventually anyone who isn't in a aqua class or suite will be eating in the buffet. I think the ships will be going to buffet at no charge and upcharge for sit down dining unless you are in a aqua or suite.

 

These big dining rooms produce little or no income. It will take less staff and more space to put in more upcharge dining or maybe some other revenue generator!

[Got2Cruise]

Based on the drop in quality of the food and service in the main dining room over the last couple of years, the dress code should be the same as a regular restaurant.

 

 

BINGO. The X MDR was at one time in a different league than the other mass market lines. Service was white glove, menu was continental. No longer.

 

I can say one thing about being Chic. If you have to brag about your education, income, age or lifestyle choice that is not being considered Chic.

[goody1]

I think what's next is no table! I keep saying that eventually anyone who isn't in a aqua class or suite will be eating in the buffet. I think the ships will be going to buffet at no charge and upcharge for sit down dining unless you are in a aqua or suite.

 

These big dining rooms produce little or no income. It will take less staff and more space to put in more upcharge dining or maybe some other revenue generator!

 

Reluctantly I agree with you. I think the MDR will become a thing of the past and multiple dining spots being the norm.

[twentyknots]

The Chic crowd.

 

The guys will wear nice jeans and a button down shirt (not tucked in!) That is The Look.

 

The girls will wear their nice clothes and jewellery and look more dressed up than the guys' date=' yet still informal. With HIGH heels!

 

This is the look of my "kids" and my friends' kids.

 

We really don't fit in! C'est la vie! I wouldn't worry about it.

 

One poster mentioned that she would dress up and her husband won't have to.

 

When we go to restaurants with friends, everyone dresses nicely and no one is anywhere near formal.[/quote']

 

I agree. My wife has been looking forward to wearing her gowns

on this cruise since we booked it. We've been cruising more casual lines lately and booked the Reflection because we thought it would be special at Christmas and I know she would like to wear some formal dresses again. We used to dress formal on HCL cruises but haven't done one in a while. She looks stunning in her gowns and there is no way I can get away with a nice dark suit, let alone jeans and a shirt out. She has suggested we forget about the formal but I know it means a lot to her so I'm okay with wearing formal even if we're the only couple on the ship dressed that way.