another annoying muster

[Topsham]

I don't care for the muster drills where they make you stand outside on deck. I don't think I've ever seen them demonstrate donning the lifevests, because I'm in the back and can't see over the heads of so many tall people.

 

At least inside we're sitting, and the crew is right in front of us demonstrating.

 

 

 

On all HAL ships except KONINGSDAM musters out on deck boat. The helpers are there will call out "men at the back... ladies in the front".

 

 

The instructions are on the door of your cabin. Takes just a moment and less than a minute to take your lifejacket out and try it out. If there is a problem... just ask the cabin steward. They will gladly help you out. If you inside and watching with a demonstration, I guarantee you will walk away two minutes and 99% of passengers would not be able to follow the instructions.

 

This is your chance to take charge of your own safety. Starts with you. In a real emergency everyone has to come out on deck to don on lifejackets. I'm not going to wait how to wear it.

[dakrewser]

I can't remember any cruise I've been on where the bars were open before or during the muster drill.

[SilvertoGold]

There is nothing wrong with being an informed consumer. The person most responsible for your safety is the one looking back in the mirror.

 

I actually think that the lifejacket donning instructions given on video on some lines (continuous loop channel that is selected by the cabin steward during turn around so it is playing when you get to the cabin) is more effective than doing at drill. Though I will say that I can't think of a single passenger drill where I didn't have to correct someone's lifejacket.

 

I will say, again, that what is expected of a passenger, or what to expect in an emergency can be boiled down to arrive on time, shut up, and pay attention to instructions. I'm not trying to be facetious here, but you are our charges, and it is up to trained crew to ensure you do the right thing. Too much knowledge about the boats can lead to accidents that you couldn't imagine. What I call "finger pokers" can get things going sideways in a real hurry. Boats are dangerous at the best of times.

 

And the way the emergency duties are set up, all the large number of crew who are assigned to clear the passenger cabins, and direct traffic at each deck on the stairs, will "collapse" down to the passenger muster stations to assist the muster leaders as the ship is cleared.

 

Now we know: arrive on time, shut up, pay attention to instructions. Makes sense. Some pax should be able to do that without too much trouble.

 

Please don't mistake pure and sincere interest in the process with finger poking, though. Some pax aren't that stupid.

 

Thanks again for your informed info! Much appreciated.

[SilvertoGold]

I can't remember any cruise I've been on where the bars were open before or during the muster drill.

 

Bars (possibly a limited number) open on embarkation day as soon as the Lido is open for lunch and stay open until just before the Drill.

Edited April 22, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[POA1]

I can't remember any cruise I've been on where the bars were open before or during the muster drill.

Before, yes. During, no.

[Tripper10]

People take 3 days to know thier way around the ship. Do you really think they know the way to the muster station without being herded to the right place? Nobody pays attention and during a real emergency, if the passengers are not told where to be, chaos would ensue. Personally I think the muster drill is a waste of time. The Concordia had the muster drill, sank 125 m from shore (that's a football field and a half). People where swimming to safety and 32 people still died.....chaos.

[chengkp75]

Now we know: arrive on time, shut up, pay attention to instructions. Makes sense. Some pax should be able to do that without too much trouble.

 

Please don't mistake pure and sincere interest in the process with finger poking, though. Some pax aren't that stupid.

 

Thanks again for your informed info! Much appreciated.

 

Interest and questioning things is great and welcomed. What is not, is the "finger pokers" who have to touch everything, and think "I wonder what this will do" just before they reach down to remove the safety pin and move the handle clearly marked "danger, lever drops boat". That's why the boat crew are not the muster crew, so we can have people just watching for things like this while the boat is loaded.

[Wehwalt]

I would settle for a consistent and published policy on whether passengers from the previous voyage have to be drilled. At present it seems very variable, ship to ship, likely captain to captain.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Wehwalt

[rafinmd]

I believe having the Captain and other officials use their judgement is a good thing. Last fall I did the Allure of the Seas TA with a short prelude, Rome to Barcelona to Ft. Lauderdale. In Rome I was told I would not need to muster in Barcelona 3 days later. When we arrived in Rome the answer was "Everybody needs to attend before we start our Transatlantic." Every situation is a little different and I think the judgement of the Captain is fully appropriate. I might have gotten out of muster under a different Captain but I fully support his decision.

 

Roy

[Topsham]

I would settle for a consistent and published policy on whether passengers from the previous voyage have to be drilled. At present it seems very variable, ship to ship, likely captain to captain.

 

 

I'm afraid that it is impossible to give a consistent and policy. If you are told to go... then go. If someone tells you don't go... then don't go. Not exactly a big issue.

 

The problem is there are several variables and passengers would never understand why the company or the captain have to make these decisions.

[AZNative2000]

Before, yes. During, no.

 

I'm sure we've all seen folks wandering into the drill areas with drinks in hand. I know I have.:rolleyes:

[AZNative2000]

People take 3 days to know thier way around the ship. Do you really think they know the way to the muster station without being herded to the right place? Nobody pays attention and during a real emergency, if the passengers are not told where to be, chaos would ensue. Personally I think the muster drill is a waste of time. The Concordia had the muster drill, sank 125 m from shore (that's a football field and a half). People where swimming to safety and 32 people still died.....chaos.

 

When the Captain of Concordia neglected to "abandon ship" while it was still upright, the boats could no longer be launched as half were under water.

 

By then, nobody could get to their muster stations anyway. Some who had access to the water did swim. Unfortunately not everyone did.

[chengkp75]

People take 3 days to know thier way around the ship. Do you really think they know the way to the muster station without being herded to the right place? Nobody pays attention and during a real emergency, if the passengers are not told where to be, chaos would ensue. Personally I think the muster drill is a waste of time. The Concordia had the muster drill, sank 125 m from shore (that's a football field and a half). People where swimming to safety and 32 people still died.....chaos.

 

When the Captain of Concordia neglected to "abandon ship" while it was still upright, the boats could no longer be launched as half were under water.

 

By then, nobody could get to their muster stations anyway. Some who had access to the water did swim. Unfortunately not everyone did.

 

Once again, when the topic is muster drill, the Concordia comes up, and with it many incorrect assertions.

 

Concordia did not have a muster drill, which contributed to the chaos, the drill was to be the next day.

 

Half of the lifeboats were not "underwater". 23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched.

 

The major cause for the chaos, panic, and loss of life on the Concordia was the fact that the Captain did not call for the passenger muster until an hour after the collision. Had it been called within minutes of learning that the ship was flooding (again just minutes after the collision), the guests would have been gathered, accounted for, and the crew would have had the boats prepped for launching, or at least been at the boats, and things could have then proceeded in a more orderly fashion. Again, when you have the hundreds or thousands of passengers located, accounted for, and under control, that is one less thing to think about when dealing with an emergency. Further, when things are done properly, which Schettino absolutely did not do, even when the passengers get in the boats and get away from the ship, the crew has not abandoned ship, only the 3-4 crew assigned to operate each boat. On the Concordia, they announced abandon ship only, which gave the crew the green light to leave the ship as well, adding to the chaos.

[dakrewser]

Before, yes. During, no.

 

Too true. It was just 5 months ago I sat near the pool eating a dive-in burger with a cold frosty one in my hand waiting for the muster drill to start.

[Boytjie]

I can't remember any cruise I've been on where the bars were open before or during the muster drill.

 

Nothing is open during the drill but before the drill bars are open. It would be horrible to board the ship and not be able to get a drink until 4 pm! :eek:

Edited April 22, 2016 by Boytjie

[Wehwalt]

I'm afraid that it is impossible to give a consistent and policy. If you are told to go... then go. If someone tells you don't go... then don't go. Not exactly a big issue.

 

The problem is there are several variables and passengers would never understand why the company or the captain have to make these decisions.

 

Thank you for telling me how ignorant I am. I guess I can never understand such things and should mindlessly do what I'm told like a good child.

[Tripper10]

Once again, when the topic is muster drill, the Concordia comes up, and with it many incorrect assertions.

 

Concordia did not have a muster drill, which contributed to the chaos, the drill was to be the next day.

 

Half of the lifeboats were not "underwater". 23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched.

 

The major cause for the chaos, panic, and loss of life on the Concordia was the fact that the Captain did not call for the passenger muster until an hour after the collision. Had it been called within minutes of learning that the ship was flooding (again just minutes after the collision), the guests would have been gathered, accounted for, and the crew would have had the boats prepped for launching, or at least been at the boats, and things could have then proceeded in a more orderly fashion. Again, when you have the hundreds or thousands of passengers located, accounted for, and under control, that is one less thing to think about when dealing with an emergency. Further, when things are done properly, which Schettino absolutely did not do, even when the passengers get in the boats and get away from the ship, the crew has not abandoned ship, only the 3-4 crew assigned to operate each boat. On the Concordia, they announced abandon ship only, which gave the crew the green light to leave the ship as well, adding to the chaos.

 

There are a lot of assumption in there. You don't really know if things would have went smoothly. There are to many factors involved to assume all that.

[kevingastreich]

I liked it when we all used to have to wear the jackets and learn how to tie them properly.

 

We stow the lifejackets in our luggage under the bed. Frees up a lot of space in the closets! :)

Edited April 22, 2016 by kevingastreich

[RuthC]

I guess I ... should mindlessly do what I'm told like a good child.

If ever called to muster in an emergency, that's precisely what you should do.

Under such circumstances there will no doubt be passengers second-guessing everything that they are told to do, thereby endangering everyone else.

 

The crew has a procedure to follow, which they have been well-trained in. They won't need the distraction of trying to keep people who don't know everything that's going on in line.

[Topsham]

Thank you for telling me how ignorant I am. I guess I can never understand such things and should mindlessly do what I'm told like a good child.

 

 

 

 

Come on. That is not what I was saying at all. The captain or any book in the cabin or on the cabin TV could play 24 hours of the day and MOST passengers would not likely understand and worse, cannot even be bother to take it all in. Catch 22. Too much information or either too much information.

 

How many times did they tell passengers that "LEAVE THE LIFEJACKET ON UNTIL YOU GET BACK TO YOUR CABINS IT MIGHT CAUSE YOU TO TRIP"? Endless law suites so now passenger don't even bother to tie one on. Now passengers are told to go to a muster drill. If the captain tells the REASON for every decision you would have 50% of the passengers saying that the think it is not that important at all so we will just go back to the bar. Next time a passenger tries to tell a Flight Attendant to do something and ask why we have to do something they would shut you down or will saying you a nuisance and put you off the flight!

[Topsham]

There are a lot of assumption in there. You don't really know if things would have went smoothly. There are to many factors involved to assume all that.

 

 

 

No, ChEng is not making any assumptions. All of this in all of the official reports.

 

Since the loss of COSTA CONCORDIA there have been a continuous stream of information and you can guarantee the ChEng is up to date with information.

[chengkp75]

There are a lot of assumption in there. You don't really know if things would have went smoothly. There are to many factors involved to assume all that.

 

Well, lets see here. Within 10 minutes of the collision, Schettino is informed that 3 compartments in the engine room are flooding. He is subsequently heard on a cell phone video acknowledging that if 2 compartments are flooding the ship is okay, but if 3 are flooding the ship is doomed. The ship has also had a complete black out, including failure of the emergency generator for the same time. Yet, he continues to wait. One hour later, he calls "general emergency" (the signal for the passenger muster) and then 2 whole minutes later he calls for abandon ship.

 

Because there was no "general emergency" signaled until too late, the crew did not report to their emergency stations, where they would have been set up to direct traffic to muster stations and to take accountability. They would have also been checking cabins and ensuring those were clear. The hour lost in not having crew and passengers at their emergency stations would have assuredly reduced the chaos and confusion. The boats would have been prepped and ready to board. Instead as the crew are heading to their emergency stations to assist the passengers, Schettino tells them to go ahead and abandon ship.

 

The ship did not adopt an excessive angle of heel until after it had grounded again on Giglio, so that if the boats were readied and launched during the hour that Schettino waited, would have all been launched quickly and without problem.

 

Would there have been casualties? Would there have been injuries? Perhaps. Would the result have been better than what occurred? Most certainly.

[donaldsc]

I feel so sorry that you are going to have to delay your dinner for 1/2 hour. I am sure that it is going to totally ruin the rest of your cruise as well as the rest of your life. You have my condolences.

 

DON

[knittinggirl]

 

The major cause for the chaos, panic, and loss of life on the Concordia was the fact that the Captain did not call for the passenger muster until an hour after the collision. Had it been called within minutes of learning that the ship was flooding (again just minutes after the collision), the guests would have been gathered, accounted for, and the crew would have had the boats prepped for launching, or at least been at the boats, and things could have then proceeded in a more orderly fashion. Again, when you have the hundreds or thousands of passengers located, accounted for, and under control, that is one less thing to think about when dealing with an emergency. Further, when things are done properly, which Schettino absolutely did not do, even when the passengers get in the boats and get away from the ship, the crew has not abandoned ship, only the 3-4 crew assigned to operate each boat. On the Concordia, they announced abandon ship only, which gave the crew the green light to leave the ship as well, adding to the chaos.

I read in the news that there was a lot of radio chatter between the Captain & land for an hour or so. I got the impression he may have needed permission to abandon ship. I think finally the captain said there's water coming in ________________, I'm ordering abandon ship.

 

As chengkp75 said, some ships play the life vest donning in the room, and Royal Caribbean does this very well. I do watch this, mainly because I've never been able to see the crew member don the vests during drill. At least during muster, we can hear the announcements. Once we saw a group of deaf people doing muster in the Centrum, nice and comfy, but no hearing's not worth it to get a comfy seat. Being stuck behind everyone else on deck wouldn't have worked for them. And I'm glad to see they got special treatment.

[galensgrl]

If ever called to muster in an emergency, that's precisely what you should do.

Under such circumstances there will no doubt be passengers second-guessing everything that they are told to do, thereby endangering everyone else.

 

The crew has a procedure to follow, which they have been well-trained in. They won't need the distraction of trying to keep people who don't know everything that's going on in line.

 

Thank you RuthC. I was thinking along these lines, but didn't know how to word it without adding fuel to the fire. But you are right, it isn't the pax place to question safety procedures meant to save our lives. Cheers!