Appropriate tip for butler in Haven

[DarkJedi]

What people don’t understand is that the 63K is a minimum guarantee salary which is a small base plus tips. If the tips don’t bring the person UP TO the minimum salary, the cruise line kicks additional money to make the guarantee.

 

From that, you deduct uniforms and other expenses.

 

NCL provides uniforms and laundry service (although many staff own a couple extra sets through purchase for convenience). Those positions that have an automatic listed gratuity, like bartenders and specialty restaurant servers, have their pay balanced by tips from the charged gratuity. Positions that do not have automatic gratuity added have a base salary plus tips.

 

Or are you saying that NCL counts the cash that people give butlers by taking their wallets away and checking to see how much money they have at the end of a cruise?

[BirdTravels]

So it is like any other tipped employee is what you are saying...

 

This was in response to the “$63K plus trips”. It is really $63K including tips to work 7 days a week 10-15 hours a day. My concierge help us beat the crowds and escorted us off the ship at 7:30 yesterday morning and came to our table in our specialty restaurant at 9:00 last night to talk to us about tendering today.

 

Here’s a 6 minute clip from an undercover news show in the UK

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DarkJedi]

https://www.ncl.com/about/careers/shipboard-employment/life-onboard

 

WORK CONDITIONS

 

 

• You will work 7-days a week onboard for approximately 10 hours per day
  
• There will be shifts off but not full days off the entire assignment rotation.
  
• When the ship is in port, many crew members take the opportunity to go ashore to tour, shop, dine, call home, etc.
  

ACCOMMODATIONS

 

 

• Your crew cabin has 1, 2, 3, or 4 bunk beds, desk and chair, T.V. and telephone. Space is very tight.
  
• Crew members share cabins with one, two or three team members, depending on the entitlements.
  
• You and your roommates are responsible for keeping your cabin clean and tidy at all times.
  
• Towels and linens will be provided once a week.
  
• No guest in cabins! Violation will result in termination / dismissal.
  

CREW MESS

 

 

• All meals and snacks will be served at the crew mess.
  
• You will have half an hour for each mealtime when on duty.
  
• Meals are buffet style; serve and clean up after yourself.
  
• You are not permitted to remove any food or utensils from the mess.
  

UNIFORMS & LAUNDRY

 

 

• Crew uniforms will be issued to you onboard.
  
• Crew uniforms and work clothes are cleaned free of charge.
  
• Laundry machines and dryers are provided free of charge for the crewmembers personal use.
  
• You will be required to use non-slip safety shoes while on duty. Shoes are not provided, you can purchase the approved brand/style before joining or onboard the vessel.
  
• Please note: Open toe shoes/flipflops/etc. are not permitted onboard in crew areas.
  

AMENITIES

 

 

• The Crew Gym is for all crewmembers available at posted hours.
  
• You can purchase toiletries, cigarettes, chocolates, and other necessities needed onboard at the Crew Shop.
  
• The Crew Bar operating hours and rules are to be adhered to at all times.
  
• You are not permitted to become inebriated or intoxicated while on your assignment contract. You are not allowed to drink alcohol while on duty. Violation of either of these rules is grounds for dismissal.
  
• Crew Enrichment/Welfare will provide crew activities and events for all the crewmembers.
  
• Only employed crew members are provided living accommodations onboard.
  

COMMUNICATION

 

 

• The Internet Café is available for all crewmembers at posted hours. Internet access is available at reasonable prices.
  
• Phone cards will be available onboard. Also, keep in mind that your phone might work at the different ports. Be careful at sea because international roaming will apply and can be very expensive.
  
• Wifi is readily available throughout the vessel. You can bring your own electronic devices to use. You will need to purchase internet access/minutes and configure accordingly.
  
• Mail arrives once a week to the ship. The mail will be sorted by department and distributed. Please remember, mail is processed through a central location, therefore, you will experience a small delay. Also, the ship’s itinerary may determine the regularity of the delivery.
  

GROWTH AND OPPORTUNITIES

 

 

• Your boss will be the head or supervisor of the department. The Captain of the ship is the commander of all and the final decision maker.
  
• Career growth is offered through internal promotions. You can apply to the positions onboard as they become available.
  
• Numerous trainings will be available onboard to enrich you knowledge in different aspects of the business.
  
• You will get paid monthly via Ocean Pay card except for the Pride of America. Onboard the Pride of America, bi-weekly pay cycle and direct deposit is offered.
  

DATING ONBOARD

 

 

• Dating fellow crewmembers is allowed.
  
• You will have the opportunity to work and make lifelong friends with crewmembers from around the world.
  
• Dating guests is not permitted. It will result in termination / dismissal.
  

GENERAL GUIDELINES

 

 

• You will have curfew onboard.
  
• We have a Zero tolerance drug policy with random testing. Drug possession, transportation and usage are causes for immediate termination.
  
• We also have a zero tolerance for harassment of any nature. Every crew member is responsible for keeping a safe, harmonious environment onboard.
  

 

 

While NCL does provide pretty much everything you need, they fine the crap out of employees for messing up, or just being messy. You can be fired for having milk in your room, in the fridge, as an example. Regular checks for cabin cleanliness and fines for not being clean and orderly enough are fairly common. Being late for shift is another. And getting bad comment cards can be a job killer, even months later at the end of contract.

 

Which is why I hate when people fill out negative comment cards over a single issue when they could have just made a verbal comment to someone and let them decide if it warranted a write up or not. If you get bad overall service or you note that someone is always in a bad mood, OK. But just because the employee in the elevator wasn't smiling and didn't greet you and ask how you were like everyone else does does not mean your vacation is ruined. It might simply mean that they really want to go take a shower after cleaning up some girls vomit and diarrhea from all over the ladies room floor and walls. Seriously, how does a grown person get diarrhea on the WALL? And no, costing this poor guy his job, and probably making it so he can't get re-hired in the cruise industry because he was "rude" to you by not saying a damn word is pretty low.

[DarkJedi]

This was in response to the “$63K plus trips”. It is really $63K including tips to work 7 days a week 10-15 hours a day. My concierge help us beat the crowds and escorted us off the ship at 7:30 yesterday morning and came to our table in our specialty restaurant at 9:00 last night to talk to us about tendering today.

 

Here’s a 6 minute clip from an undercover news show in the UK

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Not going to speak for Celebrity, but I can't imagine all these trained people working without getting a contract beforehand, and I really can't imagine them coming back to work if they got shafted by their employment.

 

People always talk about how all these employees come from impoverished nations. And yet many of them are British, American, French, Italian, ect. They are coming from first world countries with a certain standard of living. And they are returning to work over and over for new contracts. This isn't because they are working for third world wages.

 

 

As to the video, she says that Paul is working for $50 a month at :27, then she says he was hired to work at $1,010 a month at 1:00. At 1:49 it says he gets his contract after 3 days on board and he is only getting $751 a month.

 

At 4:00 they claim that workers pay other workers to help with their jobs taking care of cabins. Anyone ever seen that? And even if they are doing this, the other crew member is obviously being paid already to do their own job, and is now doing this person's job on their off time.At 4:53 it says that after 5 weeks he has been paid $60, and collected $599.70 in tips from guests. When did these guests tip him, was it from the auto-tips? He was cleaning up tables in the buffet and other basic scut work, I rarely see anyone directly tipping these people. Then the company paid an additional $175.99 to bring him to $835.69.

 

Now read the comments, several from former ship employees calling this out as pure BS.

[NLH Arizona]

That's exactly where I'm coming from. I want to do the "right" thing. I can be cheap and I know it - I want to be fair, compensate properly but also not be stupid about it. I am another who has a problem stomaching $100 as an "expected tip" for delivering snacks & servicing a coffee machine.

No one is saying you have to tip $100 or $10 a day, folks are just answering the question as to what they tip. There is no right or wrong tip. Do what you think is fair and you will be fine.

 

BTW, I'd bet everything I've ever tipped in my over 50 cruies, that if NCL ever gave a tip guideline or range for Butlers and Concierges, there would be the same backlash that there is when people on here say what they tip. People would be say, that is too much because they make X or they didn't do anything for me, why should I pay that much or I'm from X and we would never tip that much, etc.

[Cuizer2]

Not going to speak for Celebrity, but I can't imagine all these trained people working without getting a contract beforehand, and I really can't imagine them coming back to work if they got shafted by their employment.

 

People always talk about how all these employees come from impoverished nations. And yet many of them are British, American, French, Italian, ect. They are coming from first world countries with a certain standard of living. And they are returning to work over and over for new contracts. This isn't because they are working for third world wages.

 

 

As to the video, she says that Paul is working for $50 a month at :27, then she says he was hired to work at $1,010 a month at 1:00. At 1:49 it says he gets his contract after 3 days on board and he is only getting $751 a month.

 

At 4:00 they claim that workers pay other workers to help with their jobs taking care of cabins. Anyone ever seen that? And even if they are doing this, the other crew member is obviously being paid already to do their own job, and is now doing this person's job on their off time.At 4:53 it says that after 5 weeks he has been paid $60, and collected $599.70 in tips from guests. When did these guests tip him, was it from the auto-tips? He was cleaning up tables in the buffet and other basic scut work, I rarely see anyone directly tipping these people. Then the company paid an additional $175.99 to bring him to $835.69.

 

Now read the comments, several from former ship employees calling this out as pure BS.

 

First of all, thank you for supplying the data. Second, now that we have seen the two extremes, it would appear that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

If you work 3,000 hours a year at $10/hr, too someone working 2,000 per year that may seem like a good deal.

[DarkJedi]

First of all, thank you for supplying the data. Second, now that we have seen the two extremes, it would appear that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

If you work 3,000 hours a year at $10/hr, too someone working 2,000 per year that may seem like a good deal.

 

 

Oh, I agree working a cruise ship is hard work, and very long hours. I also agree with tipping, and tipping well for those that go above and beyond.

 

But what I don't agree with is all these people saying that these employees will starve to death if they don't get massive tips. I would love to see tipping eradicated around the world. No one should expect a tip, they should take a job for a set amount of money and perform that job to the best of their ability, and if that ability goes above and beyond what people expect, them maybe they get a gift. But tipping as a rule, which is mostly and American thing to get away with stiffing employees, is terrible. Get bad service in a restaurant and leave a bad tip -you were rude to the waitress, she deserved 15%. For what? Not refilling my drink and bringing me food that had been sitting on a counter waiting because she was busy flirting with someone to try and increase her tips? DW and I were recently at Hooter's, we saw our waitress when she took our drink order, someone else delivered the drinks, we saw her when she took our food order, someone else delivered the food, we had to get a different waitress to get DW sauce because it wasn't on her plate. We had to get a different waitress to refill my drink. Then we had to have a waitress go and find our waitress so we could get a bill and pay. Does she deserve 15% of my total bill?

 

 

 

Does anyone really think that people from the UK, USA, Australia, Japan, Germany, Italy, ect with job experience in mainland resort venues and the ability to get more land based jobs would really be working cruise lines, and going back year after year, to work long hard hours for piss-poor paychecks?

 

 

And no, $30k for 3,000 hours of work is not a lot of money, but they also don't pay for food or lodging during this time frame. They get discounted drinks at the staff bar. They get to travel and see different places, granted, they get less port time than customers, but they get to see an idea. And during their breaks between contracts they can go to places that interest them and spend what they earned.

[pcakes122]

And no, $30k for 3,000 hours of work is not a lot of money, but they also don't pay for food or lodging during this time frame. They get discounted drinks at the staff bar. They get to travel and see different places, granted, they get less port time than customers, but they get to see an idea. And during their breaks between contracts they can go to places that interest them and spend what they earned.

Just jumping in to add that my sister and brother-in-law both worked on the ships for NCL (granted it was 20+ years ago.) They both looked at it as a fantastic opportunity to save TONS of money and see the world. My BIL is Norwegian and had been working at sea since he was in his teens and when he and my sister met they were in their early twenties. My sister had moved from a land-based PCC job with NCL to the ships. Well, after 4 or so years together on the ship, they signed off and bought a house in Orlando and a new car CASH. My sister had been accumulating gorgeous china & crystal duty-free from the islands for years (dropping it off at my Miami sister's house each week LOL.) Since my BIL was Norwegian, he was paid in Norwegian money direct to his Norway accounts (no American taxes, etc.) and they would watch currency conversion rates to make money ON their money. (On the ship, he worked general maintenance e.g. painting, etc. - she worked in Guest Services and then became a card dealer in the casino. On land, he got a great job with Disney and just retired; she became a nurse.)

 

The bottom line is that their years on NCL ships was a huge financial boost that gave them an awesome start to build a great life. If you ask them, they would never say they had been oppressed or poverty-stricken or begging for tips to survive. In fact, just the opposite. They were the envy of us all! They had ZERO expenses except their monthly bar tab (and crew drinks are super cheap!) and were able to bank all their money. Anyway, just another perspective.

 

PS I forgot to add that in between contracts they would spend months either in Norway (NCL paid for tickets) or travelling Europe and the Greek islands. For their honeymoon, they spent a MONTH in Hawaii. I'm still jealous LOL

[Cuizer2]

But what I don't agree with is all these people saying that these employees will starve to death if they don't get massive tips. I would love to see tipping eradicated around the world. No one should expect a tip, they should take a job for a set amount of money and perform that job to the best of their ability, and if that ability goes above and beyond what people expect, them maybe they get a gift. But tipping as a rule, which is mostly and American thing to get away with stiffing employees, is terrible.

 

On this we agree. I don't like the idea of tipping either. Mostly because it is not my job to supervise someone and then decide how much they should be paid. That is their employer's job.

 

Another issue I have is, the person I never see who cooked the meal, and the person I never see who cleaned the dishes, also provided a service. Why aren't they tipped?

 

However, I do tip, and the tip varies based on how good the service was and how much they did to increase my level of satisfaction with the service provided. The reason I tip is because it is part of their pay and not to tip is unfair because, good or bad, that is how the system is set up.

 

The captain, staff captain, first officer, second officer, third officer, quartermaster, and cadet, are also providing a service. Why aren't they tipped? I had a cadet on a bridge tour make my day by offering to have his picture taken with me (but I knew better than to offer him a tip) ...

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Cuizer2

[erdoran]

On this we agree. I don't like the idea of tipping either. Mostly because it is not my job to supervise someone and then decide how much they should be paid. That is their employer's job.

AGREE!! That's why I prefer the DSC and optionally additional tips.

[Two Wheels Only]

...if NCL ever gave a tip guideline or range for Butlers and Concierges, there would be the same backlash that there is when people on here say what they tip. People would be say, that is too much because they make X or they didn't do anything for me, why should I pay that much or I'm from X and we would never tip that much, etc.

 

If people feel "pressured" to tip based on an internet forum post, imagine how "pressured" they'd feel if NCL put a guideline in writing. :')

 

Then, people would calculate how many people were in the Haven, how many butlers there were, how much the concierge makes, how much the butler makes,....(people do that already for some unknown reason).

[erdoran]

On this we agree. I don't like the idea of tipping either. Mostly because it is not my job to supervise someone and then decide how much they should be paid. That is their employer's job.

 

Another issue I have is, the person I never see who cooked the meal, and the person I never see who cleaned the dishes, also provided a service. Why aren't they tipped?

 

However, I do tip, and the tip varies based on how good the service was and how much they did to increase my level of satisfaction with the service provided. The reason I tip is because it is part of their pay and not to tip is unfair because, good or bad, that is how the system is set up.

 

The captain, staff captain, first officer, second officer, third officer, quartermaster, and cadet, are also providing a service. Why aren't they tipped? I had a cadet on a bridge tour make my day by offering to have his picture taken with me (but I knew better than to offer him a tip) ...

 

They are tipped - that's the DSC!!!

 

And only in the cruise industry are customers expected to tip the cook, laundry workers, dishwasher, etc, etc....

[Letsgo 2]

In the Garden Villa you are given 6 bottles of alcohol and unlimited Soda and water. I believe in a DOS you are given alcohol and Soda as well but not 100% sure

Yes you are correct, but you get 3 bottles of alcohol instead of 6 and yes unlimited soda and water also

Marion

[FLcruisergrl]

The base salary of whomever I am tipping is irrelevant.

 

I don’t care if your salary is $1, $100, or $1000 a day.

 

If you have increased or elevated the pleasure of my experience, you will be compensated accordingly. Period.

 

Totally agree!

[DarkJedi]

The reason I tip is because it is part of their pay and not to tip is unfair because, good or bad, that is how the system is set up.

 

And this is why I encourage people to tip on ships. And at land based places where the salary is based on the person getting tipped, I tip.

 

 

But for people who are paid a base wage that is not based on tips, I see no reason to tip them for doing the absolute basics of their job.

 

This is why I don't tip the cashier at McDonald's. And all those who say you should tip everyone who serves you no matter what who doesn't tip the cashier at McDonald's is nothing but a hypocrite.

[Mslmesq]

If people feel "pressured" to tip based on an internet forum post, imagine how "pressured" they'd feel if NCL put a guideline in writing. :')

 

Then, people would calculate how many people were in the Haven, how many butlers there were, how much the concierge makes, how much the butler makes,....(people do that already for some unknown reason).

 

Cruise critic does have a suggested amount. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=132

 

Appears to $3-5 pr day per person for the butler. Which is comparable to a different article I read in the past.

[NLH Arizona]

Cruise critic does have a suggested amount. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=132

 

Appears to $3-5 pr day per person for the butler. Which is comparable to a different article I read in the past.

If that is the amount you want to tip, then by all means that is what you should tip. Others will tip more and others will tip less. It is all about doing what you feel comfortable with. As I've said, there is no right or wrong amount to tip and what others tip should have no bearing on what you tip.

[MizDemeanor]

Cruise critic does have a suggested amount. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=132

 

Appears to $3-5 pr day per person for the butler. Which is comparable to a different article I read in the past.

 

Thanks for posting this link.

[DarkJedi]

Cruise critic does have a suggested amount. https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=132

 

Appears to $3-5 pr day per person for the butler. Which is comparable to a different article I read in the past.

 

 

Good range in that article as a basis. Although I disagree with tipping at the beginning of the cruise I do understand that soem people do it in hopes of getting special attention.

[MizDemeanor]

Good range in that article as a basis. Although I disagree with tipping at the beginning of the cruise I do understand that soem people do it in hopes of getting special attention.

 

I'm with you on that and am not understanding why CC is promoting that sort of approach either.

Edited April 19, 2018 by MizDemeanor

[voyager1964]

Butler - $63K

 

The average Norwegian Cruise Line Salary for Butlers is $62633. A Butler at Norwegian Cruise Line earns an average of $62633, ranging from $56243 at the 25th percentile to $68314 at the 75th percentile, with top earners (the top 10%) earning more than $74561.

Norwegian Cruise Line Butler Salaries | Paysa

 

https://www.paysa.com/salaries/norwegian-cruise-line--butler

I suggest looking at your own company data on this paysa.com You may discover something being very far from reality:D

[ColinIllinois]

Amazing how many people are not able to make simple financial decisions on their own.

 

~ head shake ~

 

~eye roll ~

 

I think some of you just enjoy battling with anonymous posters whose minds you will never change. That just seems very odd.

 

But, that's just me. Carry on, if you have nothing better to do.

[MizDemeanor]

Amazing how many people are not able to make simple financial decisions on their own.

 

~ head shake ~

 

~eye roll ~

 

I think some of you just enjoy battling with anonymous posters whose minds you will never change. That just seems very odd.

 

But, that's just me. Carry on, if you have nothing better to do.

 

Thank you for your permission.

[ColinIllinois]

Thank you for your permission.

 

 

No permission needed. But seriously, is anyone's mind going to be changed after the millionth thread on this subject?. I don't think so.

 

Tip.

 

Don't tip.

 

Pay the DSC

 

Remove the DSC.

 

Do what you want to do. What other folks think or do is irrelevant.

 

 

It really is THAT simple.

[MizDemeanor]

No permission needed. But seriously, is anyone's mind going to be changed after the millionth thread on this subject?. I don't think so.

 

Tip.

 

Don't tip.

 

Pay the DSC

 

Remove the DSC.

 

Do what you want to do. What other folks think or do is irrelevant.

 

 

It really is THAT simple.

 

Its been an informative exchange....you have not had much to add in that regard other that granting permission, which we really didn't need. ;)